Commitment ceremonies at WDW

[PghLybrt]

BTW - try living in small town Ohio. CA isn't even in the same country as Ohio - and I don't just mean the color of it's electorate. I was a happy, healthy Unitarian who supported all faiths and religious freedom until I moved to Tallahassee, Florida and Ohio. Now I'm surrounded by Wal-mart churchs and people who have tried to get us to move in several unfortunate ways. I see these same folks parked at the catholic, methodist and wal-mart churches on sunday when I go shopping. What did I do to deserve their wrath? Gay days on my lawn? Hardly. Our crime was - we moved in. We mow the grass, keep up the house, make improvements. All those nasty things gays do to drive down property values and the morality of the world. Pardon me if I'm cynical now about most of the US. Luckily, I travel enough to places where people of intelligence reside that I still have hope for us (and U.S.) and try to regain my friendly demeanor.

Do you live near me? I feel the same way….

 

[Psychometrika]

Nope, but I'd like to. I might be invited to those "wild" parties your neighbors complain about, if I recall a much earlier post correctly. Keep on Mowin'!

Ian ... I am SO there and beyond. So so so so there! Say a prayer for us agnostics while you're at it. They need a Darwin smilie!

 

[dkostel]

I'm not sure I understand what isn't allowed. I'm assuming it is a commitment ceremony at the wedding pavilion? I know you can have private parties at the resorts for all sorts of reasons. If you booked a party and had your own officiator (think I made that word up), and had a commitment ceremony, would they really care?

 

[donald...really]

What makes you think Night of Joy is not a Disney sponsored event? It is advertised alongside MNSSHP, MVMCP and other special Disney events.

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wd...ing/index?id=CalendarSpecialEventsListingPage

I believe Disney books and pays for the talent, advertises the event, and sells the tickets. If it isn't sponsored by Disney who is it sponsored by?

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

dkostel, I was told by a CM that if any WDW employee saw a same gendered ceremony that appeared to be a wedding or committment ceremony in progress at WDW, the CM had instructions to usher the participants (presumably just the two directly involved in the ceremony) off WDW property.

However, I've often thought that if I booked a room and invited some friends and family (think DVC grand villa) and had an indoor ceremony away from prying eyes, none would be the wiser.

No matter, I don't intend to hold anything like that at WDW anyway.

There is this sweet little place on Coca Beach, owned by family... they'll help you have the nicest ceremonies!

 

[RickinNYC]

Too many people hide behind religion to satify their own personal prejudices.... I belive in a loving god myself, he created us, and made us who we are... religion should be inclusive, not a club used to beat people over the head. my church is currently upsetting most of the cristian world by ordaining gay bishops.... but their doing it anyways, because they are judging the person as a person. Which is what I have always advocated.

I say amen to that brotha!

 

[dkostel]

dkostel, I was told by a CM that if any WDW employee saw a same gendered ceremony that appeared to be a wedding or committment ceremony in progress at WDW, the CM had instructions to usher the participants (presumably just the two directly involved in the ceremony) off WDW property.

Wow, that's harsh!

There is this sweet little place on Coca Beach, owned by family... they'll help you have the nicest ceremonies!

Sounds nice, do they supply the girl?

 

[PghLybrt]

Nope, but I'd like to. I might be invited to those "wild" parties your neighbors complain about, if I recall a much earlier post correctly. Keep on Mowin'!

!

Seriously how do I get such a reputation? ( Ummmm well next year includes Jell-O wrestling … and next years invites……that we could make possible! You wouldn’t be the only one traveling…they seriously come from all over…Ca, Az to Pa!!)




Ok as for the other stuff….Cm having to escort us off property because they witness a private ceremony?????!!!!!! …….. I think that is the problem I have with them……I mean my money is good enough for anything else at Disney like a $25 Coke ( I know its an exaggeration…) What about when the laws do change and they still do not allow it? I don’t know maybe it’s the older I get the more frustrated with the world I get because I become more comfortable with myself.

 

[ECurto]

Hi Everyone....

Im back! I want to say it sickens me how hypacritical Disney is on this topic.

Eric

 

[hidmickey:myantidrug]

Does your sexual preference determine your faith in God? I have many friends that are Gay that are religious...

I think what the poster meant was that they are both lifestyles. Not everyone is gay and not everyone believes in God, etc. If they chose to acknowledge one way of life they should choose to acknowledge another. Perhaps this isn't what the poster meant by it but that's how I took it. My appologies if this has been cleared up in the 2nd and 3rd pages...I should be working and not reading this but I had to put in my 2 cents.

 

[Master Mason]

I think what the poster meant was that they are both lifestyles. Not everyone is gay and not everyone believes in God, etc. If they chose to acknowledge one way of life they should choose to acknowledge another. Perhaps this isn't what the poster meant by it but that's how I took it. My appologies if this has been cleared up in the 2nd and 3rd pages...I should be working and not reading this but I had to put in my 2 cents.

yes but they are not compareable life styles. you can be gay and be religous, you can be straight and non religious, there are also multiple different religions...

my point was they are not comparable I am not against any of them, just that it is apples and oranges.

 

[hmp2z]

Cm having to escort us off property because they witness a private ceremony?????!!!!!! …….. I think that is the problem I have with them……

To be fair, they will escort ANY couple (homosexual or heterosexual) having a private ceremony off the property. It's part of protecting the Fairytale Weddings - if they allowed anyone to get married on property without going through the Fairytale Weddings channels, they wouldn't get the money. And, sadly, I know of one couple (heterosexual) who did hold their own vow renewal in the park without going through WDW.

But I digress. The major difference here is that the heterosexual couples (like DH & myself) have the option to use the proper Disney channels, something which is denied to homosexual couples. I guess that all of those "wholesome, fundamentalist Christian FAMILIES" would have their purity besmirched if they set eyes upon two brides or (gasp!) two grooms.

That is my guess; I imagine that Disney is caving in to pressure from the multitude of families who make up the majority of their paying customers. They wouldn't do anything that might alienate this huge demographic.

But yes, you can absolutely rent out a suite and hold a commitment ceremony there, as long as you don't do it on the balcony, where others can see you and nosy guests can complain. I have a friend who did this, in the presidential suite at the Yacht Club. She had a lovely day, and no one could complain, because she didn't sully anyone's eyes by appearing on the balcony.

Cheers!
Heather W

 

[hidmickey:myantidrug]

yes but they are not compareable life styles. you can be gay and be religous, you can be straight and non religious, there are also multiple different religions...

my point was they are not comparable I am not against any of them, just that it is apples and oranges.

I realize that they can coexist.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here by any means but could you please further explain to me how they are not comparable because I don't see how they are not. Again, I'm not trying to be a b---- here but I don't understand and would like to see where you're coming from but I'm having a difficult time here.

 

[Master Mason]

I realize that they can coexist.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here by any means but could you please further explain to me how they are not comparable because I don't see how they are not. Again, I'm not trying to be a b---- here but I don't understand and would like to see where you're coming from but I'm having a difficult time here.

A religous day celebrates an event in a religion. Religion is a belief in god, it could be any number of different gods, or it could be a lack of a belief in any god.... You can be gay straight or bi and fall in anyone of the catagories of religion.

A gay day would be a celebration of a life style. It has absolutely no connection to religion in anyway, other than what I said earlier about some folks using religion as a crutch to hid their bigotry behind.

Now if you said, they have a night of Joy which celebrates a Christian Holliday, but don't have a similar celebration for Chanakca (sp). Then I would agree, we are comparing what they are doing for one religion vs another.

But to compare a religious celebration to a gay celebration just doesn't equate.

Here is another question.... Do they have a specific day that is a celebration of straight people? The answser is of course no. Some will say that is because being straight is the norm, and therefore every day is a straight day. But I disagree. A day of celebration is a calling out or pointing out the thing your celebrating. And having a day celebrating a sexual preference or orientation however you want to describe it is not something that Disney should do. Disney is a kids place, that Adults like to go as well. But Sex of any nature shouldn't be celebrated at Disneyland.

Please note, I am not trying to fight or offend... just clairfy my possition for you. If you disagree with me that is fine. What I am not saying is there shouldn't be a gay day, because I have a problem or issue with gays, it is because it is a topic that has no place in Disney to me.

 

[MrVisible]

And having a day celebrating a sexual preference or orientation however you want to describe it is not something that Disney should do. Disney is a kids place, that Adults like to go as well. But Sex of any nature shouldn't be celebrated at Disneyland.

Ah. I think I've located the disconnect, here. Allow me to try and explain my perspective on this.

Being gay isn't about sex.

Really.

It's about who I love.

If someone suggested that you married your spouse because of the sex, you'd be offended, right? Well, it's the same way with me. When I'm going to Disneyland to celebrate my honeymoon this October, I'm not going to celebrate sex. I'm going to celebrate my partner and I finding each other, at long last, after decades of searching. I'm going to celebrate having someone to share my day with, having someone to wake up to, having someone who I know will be by my side in my times of crisis, and who I have the privilege of being there for as well. I'm going to celebrate love, and the idea that a man I love enormously will have promised to spend his life with me.

Like with any healthy relationship between spouses, sex is a part of our lives, sure. But it's not the only part, or the biggest part.

It's just the part that people get hung up on.

 

[Psychometrika]

Now if you said, they have a night of Joy which celebrates a Christian Holliday, but don't have a similar celebration for Chanakca (sp). Then I would agree, we are comparing what they are doing for one religion vs another.

And yes this IS obnoxious. This is NOT a theocracy. We are not a CHRISTIAN nation. I near to the vomiting point everytime I hear the Christian propaganda- including night of joy. Night of repression they should call it.

Here is another question though - an interesting discussion on BBC radio late last night - it revolved around "militant islamism". The question was is it really religious zealotry or is is simply ideology, more akin to other violent revolutions/terrorism/whatever you want to call it. I would suggest the same of right wing christianity - it is an ideology, not theology. History demonstrates that such insanity will ultimately fail, crash and burn. I hope it comes soon.

P.S. Being gay is not a "life style". A lifestyle is wearing Crocs, eating natural foods, or living in a McMansion. Being gay is an integral part of who we ARE in the same way as I am Irish, Scandinavian, Male, and 41. Do you complain when they have Christmas decor up? That's a lifestyle. You CHOOSE to be christian - it isn't forced upon you, current theocracy notwithstanding. I didn't CHOOSE to be gay - I just was. Your model therefore suggesting apples to oranges is incorrect because it is based in incorrect assumptions. As more and more evidence mounts, there are genetic connections to our sexual orientation. I suspect they won't find a "god" gene.

 

[hidmickey:myantidrug]

P.S. Being gay is not a "life style". A lifestyle is wearing Crocs, eating natural foods, or living in a McMansion. Being gay is an integral part of who we ARE in the same way as I am Irish, Scandinavian, Male, and 41. Do you complain when they have Christmas decor up? That's a lifestyle. You CHOOSE to be christian - it isn't forced upon you, current theocracy notwithstanding. I didn't CHOOSE to be gay - I just was. Your model therefore suggesting apples to oranges is incorrect because it is based in incorrect assumptions. As more and more evidence mounts, there are genetic connections to our sexual orientation. I suspect they won't find a "god" gene.

I'm assuming that this was directed at myself...

By my definition of lifestyle, yes, being homosexual is a lifestyle; as is being Christian, Jewish, etc. Whether or not you chose it, it's how you live your life. How you live your life, regardless of whether it was a choice, is a lifestyle. My opinions are not based on incorrect assumptions because I am fully aware that there are connections within genes in some cases.

 

[Psychometrika]

I'm assuming that this was directed at myself...

By my definition of lifestyle, yes, being homosexual is a lifestyle; as is being Christian, Jewish, etc. Whether or not you chose it, it's how you live your life. How you live your life, regardless of whether it was a choice, is a lifestyle. My opinions are not based on incorrect assumptions because I am fully aware that there are connections within genes in some cases.

Actually, it was directed at Master Mason. However, by your definition of lifestyle, I presume there is a female lifestyle, male lifestyle, et al. If you continue your argument, it stands to reason that there are as many lifestyles as there are human beings on the planet. That's fine, and doesn't connect it to a choice.

Master Mason describes it as a lifestyle whilst disregarding the fact that being christian should also be described as such. He distinguishes "faith" from "lifestyle" as if faith is somehow not chosen, or at least not a lifestyle. He suggests a "rah rah christian" night is not comparable to a "rah rah GLBT" night. That argument is spurious because it illogically defines lifestyle in a manner that arbitrarily and erroneously suggests what is and is not.

In your suggestion, everything can be considered under a lifestyle rubric, in which case a comparison is possible - Disney discriminates based on tyranny of the majority and basic principles of profit and loss. That's it. I can ignore it, and do, or I can choose not to go to Disney. My choice to go balances their good work in other areas (e.g. staffing). It may indeed make business sense to give DP benefits, but they didn't have to. Are they 100% gay friendly? No. Do they have improvements to make? Yes. But until last year they outperformed my own university in that area of social justice. I give them credit for that - and continue to press for more.

I would caution, however, that this flippant use of lifestyle connotes choice and therefore an acceptance of hate as a reasonable ideology. I hate gays because they choose to be evil, says the right wing christian zealot. It becomes easier to vocalize and act on hatred because we "bring it on ourselves" much like the rape victim in the 70's. On the other hand, while they may believe it, it is not as easy to say I hate African Americans, and get away with it in civilized society. Ethnicity is not a choice. It may be a semantic difference, but in an age where "Clear Skies" in Bushspeak means "more pollution" semantics are ever important.

Your notion also suggests that there is a "gay" lifestyle. Is there really? I must have missed out on something. The only part of my life that is strictly gay is my partner. There is no one style of anything. You can be a christian and a reasonable human being, or you can be (or call yourself) a christian and a hate-filled monster. To say I choose the gay lifestyle suggests that there is one, beyond my personal likes, dislikes, etc. I'm not sure the whole notion of lifestyle in connection with social justice is exceptionally helpful.

But no..I wasn't coming down on you.

 

[Master Mason]

Ah. I think I've located the disconnect, here. Allow me to try and explain my perspective on this.

Being gay isn't about sex.

Really.

It's about who I love.

If someone suggested that you married your spouse because of the sex, you'd be offended, right? Well, it's the same way with me. When I'm going to Disneyland to celebrate my honeymoon this October, I'm not going to celebrate sex. I'm going to celebrate my partner and I finding each other, at long last, after decades of searching. I'm going to celebrate having someone to share my day with, having someone to wake up to, having someone who I know will be by my side in my times of crisis, and who I have the privilege of being there for as well. I'm going to celebrate love, and the idea that a man I love enormously will have promised to spend his life with me.

Like with any healthy relationship between spouses, sex is a part of our lives, sure. But it's not the only part, or the biggest part.

It's just the part that people get hung up on.

And I agree and support that.... But do you need a gay day to go and celebrate your life with your partner? You can and should do that, but it doesn't require a special day. And it if did, the day to me should be a "newly wed" day or something similar...

Does that make sense?

 

[Master Mason]

And yes this IS obnoxious. This is NOT a theocracy. We are not a CHRISTIAN nation. I near to the vomiting point everytime I hear the Christian propaganda- including night of joy. Night of repression they should call it.

Here is another question though - an interesting discussion on BBC radio late last night - it revolved around "militant islamism". The question was is it really religious zealotry or is is simply ideology, more akin to other violent revolutions/terrorism/whatever you want to call it. I would suggest the same of right wing christianity - it is an ideology, not theology. History demonstrates that such insanity will ultimately fail, crash and burn. I hope it comes soon.

P.S. Being gay is not a "life style". A lifestyle is wearing Crocs, eating natural foods, or living in a McMansion. Being gay is an integral part of who we ARE in the same way as I am Irish, Scandinavian, Male, and 41. Do you complain when they have Christmas decor up? That's a lifestyle. You CHOOSE to be christian - it isn't forced upon you, current theocracy notwithstanding. I didn't CHOOSE to be gay - I just was. Your model therefore suggesting apples to oranges is incorrect because it is based in incorrect assumptions. As more and more evidence mounts, there are genetic connections to our sexual orientation. I suspect they won't find a "god" gene.

Again, I agree with what your saying, and the Christians have been just as bad as the muslims in the past, see the crusades, and the inquisition...

And your comment about not chosing to be gay and chosing to be a certain religion to me just proves my point that much more, it is apples to oranges.. They are different.