Class of 2024 (and beyond) parents - any questions?

[mjkacmom]

My friend knows 2 girls (one is her best friends daughter) that both got accepted to a selective school. Both dual enrollment. Only AP class between the two of them is AP philosophy and one is a cheerleader.

That’s great but there is no way to know that DE helped with that decision. And not all DE classes are the same. One of my kids had 9 AP classes and 2 DE, I don’t think both DE were even accepted. Heck, even AP classes aren’t equal, environmental science, human geography and stat are considered easier than chemistry, physics and calc.

 

[TwoMisfits]

If you're staying in state, AP is a gamble and DE is a guarantee (almost every DE program has deals for transfer of credits with the schools in their state).

However, if you're shooting Ivy or (far) out of state, DE is the gamble and AP is the guarantee IF your kid can pass the tests.

If you have a bad test taker, DE is gonna be the way to go every time if the choice is DE or AP. While you may not get DE credits transferred, you can't even start to get AP credits transferred if you can't get the test scores.

 

[bjscheel]

If you're staying in state, AP is a gamble and DE is a guarantee (almost every DE program has deals for transfer of credits with the schools in their state).

However, if you're shooting Ivy or (far) out of state, DE is the gamble and AP is the guarantee IF your kid can pass the tests.

If you have a bad test taker, DE is gonna be the way to go every time if the choice is DE or AP. While you may not get DE credits transferred, you can't even start to get AP credits transferred if you can't get the test scores.

I wouldn't say AP scores or DE credits are a guarantee of anything. Maybe they will be accepted, maybe they won't. More likely for an in-state public to accept DE credits but no guarantees either way, and not all DE's taken in high school will correspond to a needed credit. And AP tests, even at a 5, might not count for any credit at a given college. It might, or it might just help with placement into a higher level course, or it might not do anything.

I recommend the College Confidential forums to anyone with questions about the college process.

 

[VandVsmama]

That is a lot of words and I am trying to absorb what you are saying . Pease explain merit for this novice college shopper.

DD has a UGPA of 3.6 (she is 4.0 now but that doesn't count) and we can't use her SAT score because it was that bad. She wants to go to an art and design school but has not really shown any aptitude for either so I worry about how such a degree will help her with a career in that field. The only A&D instate school that I have found is actually more expensive than the OOS one she found. She would still need a place to live at the in-state school due to the distance from us.

I googled the acceptance rate and it said 80% but then it goes on to talk about the required and optimal SAT scores but the recruiter said she doesn't need SAT. Now I am more confused.

what you need to find out is whether this particular art & design college is Test Optional. This would be listed in the Common Data Set for each college in Section C. You can find the college's Common Data Set usually by either doing a Google search for "school_name common data set" OR go to the college's website and search for "Common Data Set" on their website. OR another option is to do a search on the school's website for a text string like "test optional" or something like that. OR email their admissions department and ask.

Not every college has merit scholarships. Some colleges that DO have merit scholarships will list on their websites very plainly what the criteria are. For example, unweighted GPA = 3.8-4.0 gets you $X off of tuition, unweighted GPA = 3.5-3.8 gets you $Y off of tuition, etc. Some schools have a policy where while they are test optional, in order to get a merit scholarship, you need to submit SAT or ACT test scores (Univ of Alabama-Huntsville is one example) as an OOS (out of state) student.

So the short answer to all of your questions is "It depends."

Should you submit test scores if a school is test optional?
It depends. OUR school counselor said that her general rule of thumb now in the post-COVID era of "tons of schools now have test optional admissions" is that if your SAT/ACT score is not in the 1500 range (for SAT), then apply as test optional. UNLESS you need merit scholarships AND the school won't give you one w/o a test score.

One additional way to figure out if a school is test optional is in Section C9 of the Common Data Set. For example:

If you add the 19% and the 23%, you don't get to 100%. You know what this means? At THIS particular school (Univ of Arizona), not everybody applies w/test scores. Why? They have a test optional policy AND their merit scholarships are entirely based on unweighted GPA (not weighted GPA).

 

[china mom]

what you need to find out is whether this particular art & design college is Test Optional. This would be listed in the Common Data Set for each college in Section C. You can find the college's Common Data Set usually by either doing a Google search for "school_name common data set" OR go to the college's website and search for "Common Data Set" on their website. OR another option is to do a search on the school's website for a text string like "test optional" or something like that. OR email their admissions department and ask.

Not every college has merit scholarships. Some colleges that DO have merit scholarships will list on their websites very plainly what the criteria are. For example, unweighted GPA = 3.8-4.0 gets you $X off of tuition, unweighted GPA = 3.5-3.8 gets you $Y off of tuition, etc. Some schools have a policy where while they are test optional, in order to get a merit scholarship, you need to submit SAT or ACT test scores (Univ of Alabama-Huntsville is one example) as an OOS (out of state) student.

So the short answer to all of your questions is "It depends."

Should you submit test scores if a school is test optional?
It depends. OUR school counselor said that her general rule of thumb now in the post-COVID era of "tons of schools now have test optional admissions" is that if your SAT/ACT score is not in the 1500 range (for SAT), then apply as test optional. UNLESS you need merit scholarships AND the school won't give you one w/o a test score.

One additional way to figure out if a school is test optional is in Section C9 of the Common Data Set. For example:
View attachment 808801
If you add the 19% and the 23%, you don't get to 100%. You know what this means? At THIS particular school (Univ of Arizona), not everybody applies w/test scores. Why? They have a test optional policy AND their merit scholarships are entirely based on unweighted GPA (not weighted GPA).

I will follow your instructions and double check but the recruiter did tell us that hey do not require SAT scores.

 

[Skippy918]

Texas?

Yup

 

[VandVsmama]

I will follow your instructions and double check but the recruiter did tell us that hey do not require SAT scores.

Then that means the school is test optional.

 

[china mom]

Our high school hosted an informational meeting last nigh about financial aid. The guest speaker is from the financial aid office at our local community college but did not just focus on her school, rather also covered four year institutions, in state and out of state. She spent a lot of time discussing the FASA form. Yes, I said FASA. She must have said FASA a hundred times and each time, I yelled inside my head "ITS FAFSA!"

She was also trying to explain the new terminology where parents will be called "contributors" on the new 24/25 form and kept referring to step parents versus "biological". I will cut her a break because she was actually very nice and very informative but, uh, I don't know my daughter's biological parents, how am I supposed to get them to contribute to her college

Money wise, the only thing I really got our of it is that we have tons of local scholarships that get left on the table each year because no one applies for them. Many of them are for small amounts like $300 but if you figure that ten of those would be $3,000 and if no one else is applying for them...

The only roadblock on those is that they want an essay where you sell yourself and talk about your extra curricular activities and volunteerism and such. We have none of those. Other than DD's very short stint working at McDonalds, she hasn't done anything outside of school.

I am thinking that maybe I should encourage her to focus her essay on overcoming odds and how she went from and orphan with a heart defect and a learning disability to a 4.0 student.

I explained to DD that we have the money for college but my analogy is if I see a shirt I want and it is on sale, don't pay full price just because I can afford to. I want the sale price. If there are (non needs based) scholarships lying around unclaimed, I'll "take the sale price". But, she is still going to college either way.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

Our high school hosted an informational meeting last nigh about financial aid. The guest speaker is from the financial aid office at our local community college but did not just focus on her school, rather also covered four year institutions, in state and out of state. She spent a lot of time discussing the FASA form. Yes, I said FASA. She must have said FASA a hundred times and each time, I yelled inside my head "ITS FAFSA!"

She was also trying to explain the new terminology where parents will be called "contributors" on the new 24/25 form and kept referring to step parents versus "biological". I will cut her a break because she was actually very nice and very informative but, uh, I don't know my daughter's biological parents, how am I supposed to get them to contribute to her college

Money wise, the only thing I really got our of it is that we have tons of local scholarships that get left on the table each year because no one applies for them. Many of them are for small amounts like $300 but if you figure that ten of those would be $3,000 and if no one else is applying for them...

The only roadblock on those is that they want an essay where you sell yourself and talk about your extra curricular activities and volunteerism and such. We have none of those. Other than DD's very short stint working at McDonalds, she hasn't done anything outside of school.

I am thinking that maybe I should encourage her to focus her essay on overcoming odds and how she went from and orphan with a heart defect and a learning disability to a 4.0 student.

I explained to DD that we have the money for college but my analogy is if I see a shirt I want and it is on sale, don't pay full price just because I can afford to. I want the sale price. If there are (non needs based) scholarships lying around unclaimed, I'll "take the sale price". But, she is still going to college either way.

OMG- the FAFSA vs. FASA thing also drives me crazy. Thankfully, during our school presentation, our presenter went out of her way to pronounce that second F.

I have our tax statements saved down so I'm ready to go on 12/1, but I'm dreading it because I've heard it's not exactly fun and I'm supposed to be traveling that day. Still, it's worth it if we can get anything extra.

As for the essay, I think your idea is great! While my DD17 has had different struggles, her key essay is about a bad situation (over the course of several years) that eventually turned into a rejection, which she then repurposed into a triumph. A couple of her acceptance letters praised the essay not only for the perseverance it displays, but her willingness to share with them some personal information about herself.

The unweighted 4.0 is also a really big deal and should add up to some decent merit-based aid, depending on where she wants to go. Our in-state schools are notoriously stingy, but my DDs grades and test scores have already led to several really nice out of state offers that make it cheaper for her to leave the state. I love your sale price analogy, plus it will leave extra funds handy if they go on to grad school. It's why we tried to hit all of the early action/priority deadlines on her list, so she'd be considered for as many of their awards as possible.

 

[china mom]

@TiggerTrigger we were told last night that they do not have a date yet for the FAFSA release, only that it will be in December. I did my son's (even though he ended up not going to college) and it was a little bit of work but not horrendous. Oh, and we were also told that you can't self report your tax information, It has to be retrieved by FASFA from the IRS.

I loved hearing that your DD's essay was received well. My DD does not think of herself as an orphan so she will be reluctant to use that in her essay but it is an important part of her story about overcoming obstacles (she had never her English until she was almost 3). I just have to help her sell it as a positive, not the "poor starving orphan" route - even though she was malnourished.

Her 4.0 GPA is only last yer and this year. Her grade 9-11 GPA is 3.6 . Still not shabby but not 4.0

 

[TiggerTrigger]

@TiggerTrigger we were told last night that they do not have a date yet for the FAFSA release, only that it will be in December. I did my son's (even though he ended up not going to college) and it was a little bit of work but not horrendous. Oh, and we were also told that you can't self report your tax information, It has to be retrieved by FASFA from the IRS.

I loved hearing that your DD's essay was received well. My DD does not think of herself as an orphan so she will be reluctant to use that in her essay but it is an important part of her story about overcoming obstacles (she had never her English until she was almost 3). I just have to help her sell it as a positive, not the "poor starving orphan" route - even though she was malnourished.

Her 4.0 GPA is only last yer and this year. Her grade 9-11 GPA is 3.6 . Still not shabby but not 4.0

That's good to know! We've been told 12/1 and to have our IRS records ready, but I would much prefer they retrieve them from the IRS. Also good that you didn't think it was horrendous. I am in a FB group about paying for higher education and the parents on there make it sound like pure torture. I understand there are changes this year, but supposedly, they are to simplify the process.

That could even be the essay angle...I'm an orphan, but I don't feel like one.

Those are still great numbers that would be sure to pull in some scholarship money!!!

 

[china mom]

That's good to know! We've been told 12/1 and to have our IRS records ready, but I would much prefer they retrieve them from the IRS. Also good that you didn't think it was horrendous. I am in a FB group about paying for higher education and the parents on there make it sound like pure torture. I understand there are changes this year, but supposedly, they are to simplify the process.

That could even be the essay angle...I'm an orphan, but I don't feel like one.

Those are still great numbers that would be sure to pull in some scholarship money!!!

We were told that the application went from something like 150 questions down to 40.

Now, your child makes their own account using their email and phone number (I think it was phone number also). Once they complete up to a certain portion, they pass it to you. You log in using your own email and password, answer some questions and e-sign to allow access to your tax returns and then send it back to the child to submit. Of course, we all know that the parent controls both accounts and does it all but whatever makes the FAFSA folks fell better

 

[Lumpy1106]

Our high school hosted an informational meeting last nigh about financial aid. The guest speaker is from the financial aid office at our local community college but did not just focus on her school, rather also covered four year institutions, in state and out of state. She spent a lot of time discussing the FASA form. Yes, I said FASA. She must have said FASA a hundred times and each time, I yelled inside my head "ITS FAFSA!"

She was also trying to explain the new terminology where parents will be called "contributors" on the new 24/25 form and kept referring to step parents versus "biological". I will cut her a break because she was actually very nice and very informative but, uh, I don't know my daughter's biological parents, how am I supposed to get them to contribute to her college

Money wise, the only thing I really got our of it is that we have tons of local scholarships that get left on the table each year because no one applies for them. Many of them are for small amounts like $300 but if you figure that ten of those would be $3,000 and if no one else is applying for them...

The only roadblock on those is that they want an essay where you sell yourself and talk about your extra curricular activities and volunteerism and such. We have none of those. Other than DD's very short stint working at McDonalds, she hasn't done anything outside of school.

I am thinking that maybe I should encourage her to focus her essay on overcoming odds and how she went from and orphan with a heart defect and a learning disability to a 4.0 student.

I explained to DD that we have the money for college but my analogy is if I see a shirt I want and it is on sale, don't pay full price just because I can afford to. I want the sale price. If there are (non needs based) scholarships lying around unclaimed, I'll "take the sale price". But, she is still going to college either way.

Our experience was those small scholarships are not worth the effort - and they are a LOT of effort! If DD happens to fit a small, highly defined description that the scholarship requires and she stands a good chance of getting it, then go for it. Otherwise - meh.

IMHO, if DD is not going into Engineering or not going to pursue a competitive advanced degree, I would not rule out the smaller (private) or less competitive (public) schools. For those schools, the essay is just for DD to demonstrate they have the ability to write the essay - the content is not as important. The great news is most of these are on the common app so DD can apply to as many as she wants with no additional cost and only a small amount if additional effort. My kids didn't even have to pay for HS transcripts to be sent.

LSS - don't rule anything out until you have to. Once DD has been accepted, the private schools will tell you what financial package they are eligible for, and both public and private will likely have their own school specific scholarships she can apply for. If you still can't afford it then fine, take it off the list. THEN...go for a campus visit if she hasn't already. My DD has got a $1000/year renewable scholarship just for doing that.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

I'd just like to share my little sigh of relief along with a question.

First- The Question: How have you dealt with housing lotteries? DD's top school has one due to the high demand for dorm space, but she probably won't know if she's gotten in or rejected until early 2024. I hate paying a non-refundable fee into the housing lottery (and then if selected, potentially having to pay a several hundred dollar deposit that I may have to work to get refunded if she's rejected) when we don't know her admission status. How have others handled this?

Second- The Sigh of Relief: Some of it may be the calm before the storm, but last night DD sent out her last three applications and I finished all of her transcript and test score requests during my lunch break today. I swear- those requests make me crazy! I don't mind the high school transcript requests or the ones from College Board so much, but the ones from the CC where she did her dual enrollment and the ones from UT for her OnRamps classes really wear me out. The added relief... she's gotten positive responses from enough schools that she's agreed to trim her application list. She originally wanted to apply to 25 schools, but we're now set on 14 and leaving it at that. So, we're at least officially done with this phase of the process and just waiting on decisions from these last five schools. I need a nap!

 

[Skippy918]

So I think my son is now leaning towards the dual enrollment for English and social studies for junior and senior year and then AP physics, pre calc on ramps (still unsure what this is) for junior year. He doesn’t want to continue with Spanish 3 cause he would rather take more cte classes (Welding and computer science) I hope he’s not shooting himself in the foot by missing a 3rd year of language.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

We were told that the application went from something like 150 questions down to 40.

Now, your child makes their own account using their email and phone number (I think it was phone number also). Once they complete up to a certain portion, they pass it to you. You log in using your own email and password, answer some questions and e-sign to allow access to your tax returns and then send it back to the child to submit. Of course, we all know that the parent controls both accounts and does it all but whatever makes the FAFSA folks fell better

Don't even get me started on parent controls for these things. I have DD's Gmail open on my laptop, in addition to my personal account, so I can monitor and work from both. It gets confusing because I'm also having to manage my younger one like this. She's interested in playing sports in college, so I've also got to keep her emails, recruiting sources, and social media in line as well. Thankfully, her coaches want them doing all of the legwork, so it’s mainly monitoring… until she needs me to pay for something

 

[china mom]

Our experience was those small scholarships are not worth the effort - and they are a LOT of effort! If DD happens to fit a small, highly defined description that the scholarship requires and she stands a good chance of getting it, then go for it. Otherwise - meh.

IMHO, if DD is not going into Engineering or not going to pursue a competitive advanced degree, I would not rule out the smaller (private) or less competitive (public) schools. For those schools, the essay is just for DD to demonstrate they have the ability to write the essay - the content is not as important. The great news is most of these are on the common app so DD can apply to as many as she wants with no additional cost and only a small amount if additional effort. My kids didn't even have to pay for HS transcripts to be sent.

LSS - don't rule anything out until you have to. Once DD has been accepted, the private schools will tell you what financial package they are eligible for, and both public and private will likely have their own school specific scholarships she can apply for. If you still can't afford it then fine, take it off the list. THEN...go for a campus visit if she hasn't already. My DD has got a $1000/year renewable scholarship just for doing that.

We have settled on community College for her first two years. It's not a money issue rather a "not waste our money" issue. She is not ready for her first choice school and I think the stress of keeping up would turn her off college. She is a VERY hard worker but has her sights set on an art and design school with no demonstrated aptitude for art and design.


For the scholarships, I agree that they are small awards and not really worth it but I hate the idea of so many scholarships going in awarded just because no one applies for them.

We are in a rural area and there is one organization where you apply once and they send your application in for a bunch of scholarships they think you qualify for. I figure it's worth a shot.

 

[Lumpy1106]

I'd just like to share my little sigh of relief along with a question.

First- The Question: How have you dealt with housing lotteries? DD's top school has one due to the high demand for dorm space, but she probably won't know if she's gotten in or rejected until early 2024. I hate paying a non-refundable fee into the housing lottery (and then if selected, potentially having to pay a several hundred dollar deposit that I may have to work to get refunded if she's rejected) when we don't know her admission status. How have others handled this?

Second- The Sigh of Relief: Some of it may be the calm before the storm, but last night DD sent out her last three applications and I finished all of her transcript and test score requests during my lunch break today. I swear- those requests make me crazy! I don't mind the high school transcript requests or the ones from College Board so much, but the ones from the CC where she did her dual enrollment and the ones from UT for her OnRamps classes really wear me out. The added relief... she's gotten positive responses from enough schools that she's agreed to trim her application list. She originally wanted to apply to 25 schools, but we're now set on 14 and leaving it at that. So, we're at least officially done with this phase of the process and just waiting on decisions from these last five schools. I need a nap!

Housing - oh boy.
DS graduated in 2021 so we really didn't know what schools would be open or on-line (hard "NO" on any on-line option - SMH), or just what the acceptance criteria would be. He got short-listed at his #1 pick and accepted at another top choice. He accepted the invite from school #2, then the housing deadline came so we put down a deposit on the lottery (more-or-less a sure thing at school #2 but not an actual room assignment). A week later he got off the waitlist at school #1 and immediately un-enrolled at school #2. All good - but school #2 refused to refund the housing deposit (grr!). He was never actually assigned a room - technically never got out of the lottery. You just have to look at it in the grand scheme - it's a small thing in the big picture, but man was that irritating!

Did you know you are supposed to send a formal rejection to the schools DD/DS gets in to but does not attend? That's historically the polite thing to do. Yeah, don't bother. DD did - all 14 of them. One or two responded to thank her for letting them know, none of them actually took her off any mailing list. It's just not a thing in this day and age.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

Housing - oh boy.
DS graduated in 2021 so we really didn't know what schools would be open or on-line (hard "NO" on any on-line option - SMH), or just what the acceptance criteria would be. He got short-listed at his #1 pick and accepted at another top choice. He accepted the invite from school #2, then the housing deadline came so we put down a deposit on the lottery (more-or-less a sure thing at school #2 but not an actual room assignment). A week later he got off the waitlist at school #1 and immediately un-enrolled at school #2. All good - but school #2 refused to refund the housing deposit (grr!). He was never actually assigned a room - technically never got out of the lottery. You just have to look at it in the grand scheme - it's a small thing in the big picture, but man was that irritating!

Did you know you are supposed to send a formal rejection to the schools DD/DS gets in to but does not attend? That's historically the polite thing to do. Yeah, don't bother. DD did - all 14 of them. One or two responded to thank her for letting them know, none of them actually took her off any mailing list. It's just not a thing in this day and age.

Part of the complication here is the number of schools in the mix. I'll spare you the long story, but we were advised to apply to a large number of schools due to how competitive things have become. Thankfully, she's gotten a bunch of acceptances - several with nice merit-based awards, so we've trimmed about 11 schools off that list. Still, we've got 9 acceptances in the mix and several (5) we're waiting on ... and all have sent housing emails. Everyone wants her to put deposits on housing right now and every email conveys a sense of urgency...like she'll be shut out if she doesn't act fast. I'm thinking about putting the lottery deposit down for her #1...which probably won't give her an answer until Jan or Feb, but have her make a decision about #2 by December so we can hopefully secure something at that school as well. Hopefully she can unenroll from #2 if she gets accepted to #1. Like you said- it's something small in the grand scheme of things.

You know, I had heard that, but now I can't remember if I sent formal rejections to the offers I declined... a million years ago when I was going to college.

 

[VandVsmama]

So I think my son is now leaning towards the dual enrollment for English and social studies for junior and senior year and then AP physics, pre calc on ramps (still unsure what this is) for junior year. He doesn’t want to continue with Spanish 3 cause he would rather take more cte classes (Welding and computer science) I hope he’s not shooting himself in the foot by missing a 3rd year of language.

Not having a 3rd year of foreign language will definitely eliminate some schools as possibilities when applying.