Circumcision may stop millions of HIV deaths-study

[chobie]

Oh, I have no doubt that there are people that actually believe such nonsense.

Believe what nonense? That there are separate boards for circ debates?

 

[BuckNaked]

Believe what nonense? That there are separate boards for circ debates?

No.

No, I should have expanded what I said. I have no doubt that people believe this nonsense about circumcision being mutilation, and thereby necessitating the separate boards.

 

[MzDiz]

I would never ridicule a little boy, but then again, I have no reason to be seeing what little boys have or haven't had done. My personal experience was that I found the "uncut version" to be repugnant and a complete turnoff, but that's just me. YMMV.

Men in North Africa think an uncut woman is disgusting too. It's all about what you're conditioned to.

 

[chobie]

No.

No, I should have expanded what I said. I have no doubt that people believe this nonsense about circumcision being mutilation, and thereby necessitating the separate boards.

Believing that circumcision is an unneccessary cosmetic procedure is not nonsense, anymore than the belief that the risks of the procedure outweigh the risks of not having it done. I personally have never used the word "mutilation" in reference to male cicumcision. But there are hyperbolic terms used on both sides of this debate.

 

[BuckNaked]

Believing that circumcision is an unneccessary cosmetic procedure is not nonsense,

I agree - where did I say it was?

I personally have never used the word "mutilation" in reference to male cicumcision.

Again, where did anyone say that you did?

But there are hyperbolic terms used on both sides of this debate.

Perhaps you've seen examples of hyperbole on the pro-circ side, but I haven't seen it. But I've definitely seen it on the anti-circ side.

 

[chobie]

I agree - where did I say it was?



Again, where did anyone say that you did?



Perhaps you've seen examples of hyperbole on the pro-circ side, but I haven't seen it. But I've definitely seen it on the anti-circ side.

Your assuming that the reason that there are boards to discuss the medical pros and cons of the procedure is because people believe in that nonsense that is mutilation, seemed rather hyperbolic to me. JMHO.

 

[BuckNaked]

Your assuming that the reason that there are boards to discuss the medical pros and cons of the procedure is because people believe in that nonsense that is mutilation, seemed rather hyperbolic to me. JMHO.

I'm sorry, but you lost me in the second half of that sentence - I have no idea what you are trying to say.

If you consider my use of the word "nonsense" to be hyperbole, then we'll have to agree to disagree, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say is hyperbole on my part.

 

[chobie]

I'm sorry, but you lost me in the second half of that sentence - I have no idea what you are trying to say.

If you consider my use of the word "nonsense" to be hyperbole, then we'll have to agree to disagree, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say is hyperbole on my part.

You stated that you thought the reason that there were whole boards to discuss the issue was because so many people must believe in the nonsense that is mutilation.

Anway, the reason this is such a controversial issue is because anything to do with children is anymore. It's not enough to just be a good parent, noooo you have to be a perfect parent. So, any decision one makes about their child has to be the ONLY decision, because all of us (me included some time) are too afraid to say I made a decision about my child and it may not be the best but it seemed like the best at the time (or something of that nature). I blame this on society and I think we should all just chill out a bit when it comes to parenting decisions--from how we choose to give birth, to how we feed them to all of it. There are very few absolutes in life and every decision has pros and cons.

 

[BuckNaked]

Anway, the reason this is such a controversial issue is because anything to do with children is anymore. It's not enough to just be a good parent, noooo you have to be a perfect parent. So, any decision one makes about their child has to be the ONLY decision, because all of us (me included some time) are too afraid to say I made a decision about my child and it may not be the best but it seemed like the best at the time (or something of that nature). I blame this on society and I think we should all just chill out a bit when it comes to parenting decisions--from how we choose to give birth, to how we feed them to all of it. There are very few absolutes in life and every decision has pros and cons.

One of the best posts on the parenting wars I've ever seen.

 

[Tinijocaro]

I've been in enough debates to know that when one side begins ridiculing the other, making snide comments, and being generally childish, then they have lost the debate. They feel backed into a corner and just come out swinging, rather than using logic and facts.

Several pro-circ people posting on this thread did so without insulting the other side. Some could learn from those people.

When a debate becomes a slam-fest, I bow out. If rational discussion resumes, I'm back in.

 

[BuckNaked]

I've been in enough debates to know that when one side begins ridiculing the other, making snide comments, and being generally childish, then they have lost the debate. They feel backed into a corner and just come out swinging, rather than using logic and facts.

Several pro-circ people posting on this thread did so without insulting the other side. Some could learn from those people.

When a debate becomes a slam-fest, I bow out. If rational discussion resumes, I'm back in.

I haven't seen anyone on either side being ridiculed, nor have I seen insults.

I would still be interested in your answer as to why you feel it is your business to educate others until there are not "cut" boys? Why do you feel it is your business to impose your will and your beliefs onto other parents?

 

[Tinijocaro]

When the basic human right's of a child are being violated, I feel it is my business to ensure their rights. Just as we do when a child is being abused, or animals are being mistreated, or people are being used as slaves. Sure, we could all sit back and say "Well, this doesn't directly affect me, so I'm keeping out of it." If all people stopped speaking up when an injustice is being done, then children and animals would be abused routinely, slavery would still be legal, and girls would still be allowed to be circumcised in this country. It is illegal in this country to so much as nick a girls cl*t, because they have the basic human right to bodily integrity. So, girls are protected, why aren't our boys? Why don't they get the same right to bodily integrity as girls? The Sunnis in this country want the right to ceremoniously circumcised their daughters in the name of religion, yet will go to jail for it, yet Jews do have the freedom to circumcise their boys in the name of religion. This inequity should shock all people.

Does that answer your question?

 

[BuckNaked]

When the basic human right's of a child are being violated, I feel it is my business to ensure their rights. Just as we do when a child is being abused, or animals are being mistreated, or people are being used as slaves. Sure, we could all sit back and say "Well, this doesn't directly affect me, so I'm keeping out of it." If all people stopped speaking up when an injustice is being done, then children and animals would be abused routinely, slavery would still be legal, and girls would still be allowed to be circumcised in this country. It is illegal in this country to so much as nick a girls cl*t, because they have the basic human right to bodily integrity. So, girls are protected, why aren't our boys? Why don't they get the same right to bodily integrity as girls? The Sunnis in this country want the right to ceremoniously circumcised their daughters in the name of religion, yet will go to jail for it, yet Jews do have the freedom to circumcise their boys in the name of religion. This inequity should shock all people.

Oh God, I've heard it all now!!
If you consider circumcision an injustice, a cruelty, whatever, by all means, don't have your boys circed. As for others, you really should just mind your own business and stop accusing people of mutilating their sons just because they do something you don't agree with.

Does that answer your question?

Oh yeah, and a couple more to boot.

 

[becka]

What about parents who pierce thier daughters ears when they are babies? Granted we are talking about another body part but that causes pain as well and is done without the consent of the child. And in the case of piercings there is no medical benefit at all. There are minimal medical benefits and a circ does help prevent some issues that could lead to a circ at a later age.

Really this is NOT child abuse and does not belong in the same category. This should be a decision for each family between Mom, Dad and the doctors. I don't believe in piercing little girls ears when they are babies but that does not mean that I decry the practice and demand that no one else does it either. Whether some of you like it or not circ's are legal here in the U.S. and many of us have made that choice based on our own beliefs, circumstances and research. I will do what is best for MY family and you can do what is best for YOUR family.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Laugh all you want, you asked a question, I answered.

I've never called it mutilation or child abuse- please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[chobie]

When the basic human right's of a child are being violated, I feel it is my business to ensure their rights. Just as we do when a child is being abused, or animals are being mistreated, or people are being used as slaves. Sure, we could all sit back and say "Well, this doesn't directly affect me, so I'm keeping out of it." If all people stopped speaking up when an injustice is being done, then children and animals would be abused routinely, slavery would still be legal, and girls would still be allowed to be circumcised in this country. It is illegal in this country to so much as nick a girls cl*t, because they have the basic human right to bodily integrity. So, girls are protected, why aren't our boys? Why don't they get the same right to bodily integrity as girls? The Sunnis in this country want the right to ceremoniously circumcised their daughters in the name of religion, yet will go to jail for it, yet Jews do have the freedom to circumcise their boys in the name of religion. This inequity should shock all people.

Does that answer your question?

Removing a boys foreskin does not take away ALL sexual pleasure from them, in fact we don't know if it takes away any all. Cutting out a ******** removes ALL sexual pleasure. As far as just removing just the hood, that is very rare. Most cultures that practice FGM remove the enitre ******** and then some. That is why it is illegal in this country. Plus there is some evidence that there are health benefits to circumcizing boys (though it was not compelling enough for me to have it done to my son), but there are no documented health benefits to the analagous female procedure.

 

[snowwite]

There is no comparison between a foreskin and a ********. The glans is the part of the male analogous to the female ******** and the glans is left intact during circumcison.

I disagree but you will think whay you want.

 

[Pigeon]

Removing a boys foreskin does not take away ALL sexual pleasure from them, in fact we don't know if it takes away any all. Cutting out a ******** removes ALL sexual pleasure.

On the contrary, I have heard accounts from African women who have been infibulated who claim that they still have perfectly normal sexual response. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. It still doesn't make chopping off parts of their anatomy without their consent the right thing to do.

 

[Crankyshank]

To compare female circumcision and male circumcision is just plain ridiculous imho and also makes light of just how painful and how much long term damage the majority of women who have been circ'd have experienced.

If I have a son, I'm going to leave the decision up to DH as to whether or not he gets circ'd. So far DH has expressed that he wants his son circ'd but that decision might change and I support him whichever decision he makes. As a woman I prefer a circ's ***** and I know I'm not alone in that preference but I'm not going to make a decision based on whether or not my son might have difficulty getting a woman to enjoy giving him oral attention.

 

[BuckNaked]

I disagree but you will think whay you want.

You can certainly disagree about whether or not boys should be circ'd, but you can't disagree with the medical fact that LukenDC posted.

Unless, of course, you have a medical fact that counters it, which I highly doubt.