Changes at DVC?

[Lisa P.]

There have been so many speculations about what could change. Some of you have been around since DVC first started. Without getting into pros & cons & debates over each one, could we take a look at the actual, specific changes that have taken place within the program since it first started? I think that may help prospective buyers who want an objective look at Disney's track record. I'll start with what I can recall and maybe some of you could add more:

Positive Improvements:
--- Added new resorts to DVC for easy internal trading... up to 5 resorts now with another two likely to open soon
--- Availability of using lowest points at ANY DVC resort for II trades (fewer points needed on average)
--- Option added to trade for II studios, not just 1-BR & 2-BR
--- Wider selection of Concierge Collection options
--- Added DCL, when it opened, as an option
--- Added Adventure vacations, as an option
--- Broadened WDW hotels selection on points to include moderates and later, views/concierge
--- Added limited, discounted park pass option
--- Added newer activity options at resorts, such as surrey bike rentals
--- Decreased both the initial buy-in and add-on requirements for points purchases

Negative Changes:
--- Eliminated free park pass program
--- Dropped some of the other cruise lines, which required fewer points and limited the itineraries on others
--- Restricted or eliminated pool-hopping at certain times and at AKL
--- Eliminated some decorator items from rooms (flowered shower curtains, colored towels, silk plants)
--- Increased points requirements for some options (Cruises & DC?)
--- Charging a la carte for more amenities & activites that used to be included (fishing poles, crabbing nets, some crafts)
--- Dramatically increased purchase prices, which affects owners who wish to add on
--- (have golf discounts decreased as well???)

I'm not sure whether some other changes have been improvements or reductions, when looking at their changes and how handled since the very beginning. One example is:
--- Seasonal (Christmas) Priority List

Any other changes that have affected the value or quality of your purchase (or which could affect someone's decision to buy)? Again, let's please try not to get into debates about what impact these things have on individuals. Everyone values different benefits differently.

 

[Doctor P]

Thanks, Lisa. This is a useful list and a great thread to start.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Thanks Lisa for being factual and concise. It is a fact of life that everything undergoes change all the time. Even a visit to my dentist has changed greatly from what it was when I first started seeing him. As long as we are getting services ( and sometimes more than when we joined), and there is still value to our WDW vacations (the reason most of us joined DVC), we can accept the change and work with it. If any individual is unhappy, you have several things you can do. Call your DVC guide and express your concerns. If you can't live with the changes and decide DVC no longer fits your requirements, it is a GREAT time to sell.

 

[dianeschlicht]

PS-I for one am very happy and don't ever plan to sell!

 

[CarolMN]

Any prospective purchaser would be wise to consider the cost of any program/benefit currently included in DVC membership that is not expressly guaranteed. Even if the perk/feature appears to be "free" to members, there is ALWAYS a cost to provide the perk/feature and someone is paying. If the cost of a perk/feature increases or the benefit of providing that perk decreases, the someone who is paying for it is likely to eliminate it or at least change it.

For example, I have read here on this board, more than once, that the free park pass program was paid for by the Developer. It was intended to be a purchase incentive when DVC first began. After the initial program expired, the Developer decided not to extend the program. My assumption would be that sales were strong enough that that particular incentive was no longer cost effective for them. Same for the current MB program, which is also a purchase incentive. When VWL sold faster than anticipated, the incentive was significantly decreased.

IMHO, most of the items listed under positive changes either require the user to pay a fee or carry little or no cost other than MS time (which our dues already pay for).

As for the negative, when the economy was good, there didn't seem to be any problem renting out DVC rooms (at or near rack rate) to the general public. So the trades for DC rooms didn't cost much, if anything, to provide. Apparently, it is not so easy to rent out DVC rooms in the current economy. While members may quarrel about the reasonableness of the point increases to utilize the DC feature, someone has to pay when the books don't balance. If that "someone" doesn't want to continue to subsidize the feature, it either gets eliminated or changed. It isn't reasonable to expect that "someone else" (even Disney) will continue to pay for something that no longer benefits them. For those who disagree, ask yourself if you would be willing to pay (via increased annual dues) to keep the point schedules for the DC the same.

I can't help but wonder if our annual dues did actually pay for some of the things that are listed under negative changes. For example, if the decorator items were disappearing or being replaced more often than normal wear and tear would suggest reasonable, wouldn't the cost of replacement have been considered a normal part of resort operations? I'm glad they were eliminated or replaced with something less likely to disappear. I don't want to pay for other people's souvenirs (theft) or carelessness.

In that same vein, when the Developer's reason for providing free park passes no longer existed, why didn't DVC just raise annual dues to cover the cost? They could probably still have negotiated the same 10% discount that we have now for UMPs. I suspect that most would not want that! My family does not go into the parks everyday and would be unhappy subsizing those that do.

When we ran the numbers, we did not include either the benefits of the extra features or the cost. From what I 've read here, neither did DVC members. We thought the extras were just that - nice to have while they lasted, but not relevant to the purchase decision.

If any prospective purchasers are still reading ) thanks), my advice is not to consider anything but the value of the DVC resorts themselves in your decision. There's no way of telling how long they will available to you.

After all that, I have to emphasize that we we are very happy with our purchase and would do it all over again, even at today's prices and program changes. Wish we would have bought in sooner.

 

[Joe T.]

We are delighted with our purchase. Lisa has presented a pretty comprehensive summary of the changes. Of course, the park passes were a wonderful benefit. Actually, it lasted a year longer than I had thought. We really took advantage of the passes. I do believe that they could do a little better for the WDW DVC owners relative to pass discounts. Not likely to happen unless they find that owners are going to other area attractions.

We were never promised anything, but I believe that they could do a lot better for the golfing owners. I have not seen the evidence that the 5 courses are getting so much play that some tee times at at least one course each day could not be set aside for owners for a year around greens fee. It does not appear that any of the DVC managment are golfers, or have any interest. I read on a post on these boards that the new Bonnet Creek Resort may be more golfer friendly.

Example of golfer friendly: In Williamsburg, Marriott gives 6 free rounds per week - cart fees are extra. A very good benefit.

 

[PamOKW]

I agree that the basis of a purchase decision should be the ability to stay at your home resort but it doesn't hurt to have an idea of what can/has changed over the years.

Pool hopping was actually not an original perk...it was added somewhere along the line and then "refined" lately.

Early on, trades to WDW resorts also included two park passes. That ended roughly 1994-95.

When it opened, the Inn at Vero included daily housekeeping since it was to allow members to have a hotel experience. I think other members complained and it was discontinued.

Members would sometimes get little gifts and/or holiday cards. Things like calendars, photo albums, etc. We did recently get the license plate and WL pin so they haven't completely stopped.

Towels, shampoo, etc. used to be available just as at any other WDW resort with no caveat of possible charges.

MS was open a full day and then began closing for lunch. They are once again open a full day.

II was substituted for RCI.

 

[Granny]

Wow, this is a really nice summary of the DVC changes!

As a new member, I knew of some of the older, discontinued features but never have seen them in one place. When I hear some of the "old time DVCers" talking about some past feature, I have a better basis for understanding their comments.

Also, I notice that no one has added much to your list. You did your homework well!

THANKS!


Granny

 

[Pa@okw95]

Check in time was changed to "after" 4 PM. This was a big change because the word "after" changes the whole meaning of check in. It was that check in meant they would have the room for you by 4 PM now it could be after. This could be going on all over WDW. Pre-check in is also gone. The whole check in process has changed now. The last 4 or 5 times I have gone down there I had to wait until 4 PM to get my room. I once got my room when I arrived but those days are gone.

 

[tedhowe]

Thanks Lisa for the post.

I think it is a very good overview of the changes and I think it highlights one of the best changes and one of the ways that flexibility has NOT been lost in all of this.

I am referring to the II exchanges. I was busily reading as many of the threads about loss of flexibility as I could looking for someone to point out that II has not gotten more expensive (i.e. less flexible).

You point out two ways in which it has gotten MORE flexible.

We have been "members" since my parents bought in in '93 (my wife and I honeymooned at OKW in '94), and members in our own right since last year. We've never considered Disney Collection a realistic option because of the expense, so this change doesn't really affect us.

I understand the reasoning behind DVCDAVE's concerns and I respect that, but I think with the caveat to only buy DVC if your primary use is to go to Disney and to stay in DVC accomodations I will continue to wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone who asks me.

As to the check-in time issue, I wonder if things have changed at other (non-DVC) resorts at WDW.

The way I see it, to get all of the rooms ready by 4 would require more staff in the housekeeping department - some of which would remain idle on days when there was not a great turnover.

When DVC resorts are not sold out, a larger percentage of this is expense to Disney and not DVC. As the resort becomes entirely member-owned and occupied, the expense of getting the rooms ready earlier becomes a member expense and would mean higher dues.

To me, this isn't Disney changing the "rules" or "perks". It is instead DVC trying to keep our dues to a minimum.


Ted

 

[Jeanne]

Somehow I must be living right. In the 10 or so times we have stayed at DVC, we have never had to wait until after 3 to get into our room. As a matter of fact, just last week, we checked in at noon, and received the keys to our one bdr at noon. Life is good.

 

[prplcrzy]

Lisa, it seems that there have been more positive changes than negative changes in the DVC over the years, is that true???

 

[Hilary]

As a new member, this list is very interesting, and a much easier thread to follow than some of the livelier debates

Thanks for the information, Lisa!

 

[Lisa P.]

Originally posted by prplcrzy
Lisa, it seems that there have been more positive changes than negative changes in the DVC over the years, is that true???

My list wasn't meant to be exhaustive, just what I could remember off the top of my head. As others have added (thankfully), there have been some I've forgotten. Whether there have been more positive or more negative, I don't really know. From my perspective, it doesn't matter really. Three significant things to notice, though:

1. The number of points to stay at a DVC resort has remained pretty constant & reasonable. Coupled with fairly stable maintenance fees, the value has continued to be consistent with what most people probably expected when they bought - IF they purchased to use at DVC resorts.

2. As they build more DVC resorts, it gives each DVC'er more internal, "real value" options for using their points. If they come out with new points charts for the newer resorts that reflect a huge increase in points requirement per stay, that would be a different story. To date, more DVC resorts has been a clear & dramatic positive.

3. If a particular feature or option is very important to an individual, and it changes, then for THEM, the numbers of positives and negatives are irrelevant. For some, their favored "extra bennies" can indeed be deal makers-or-breakers.

IMHO, it's not up to any of us to say that it should or shouldn't be so for someone else. Based on that, I personally think it's unkind to ignore the role these extras may play in a person's decision and/or satisfaction level. And it's why enthusiastic blanket encouragements to others to buy may be understandable but are really not very helpful to prospective buyers. IMHO, more recent efforts on this board to be clearer in this regard have been great! I, for one, am glad to see them!

 

[OKW91]

As a DVC member since December 91 we have seen a lot of changes, and I think this is to be expected of any new venture. I am delighted to see that the dues our IMHO being kept to a reasonable amount! I still believe that for anyone who wants to enjoy a WDW vacation every year or two, stay in a luxury resort, this is the best way to go. Lisa has covered just about all of the changes, except for one! During our first visit in Jan 92 they use to have a members get together, once a week, at Oliva's. The first one we went to was a wine and scrimp buffett, I guess we are showing are age here!!! But I saw that change over the next few visits to a chesse and wine buffett, then to a salad bar, and then to nothing!! But I was certain that this could not last! Anyone else out there remember these buffetts?

 

[DebbieB]

Check in time was changed to "after" 4 PM. This was a big change because the word "after" changes the whole meaning of check in. It was that check in meant they would have the room for you by 4 PM now it could be after. This could be going on all over WDW. Pre-check in is also gone.

I'm not sure what you mean by "pre-check in is also gone". When we arrived at OKW at 1:00pm in May, our room was not ready, but we were able to pre-check in. We got all our materials and our keys. We were given a card with a phone # to call to check if our room was ready. We went to lunch, to the Premier Outlets and to Wal Mart to get our groceries. I called from Wal Mart about 3:30 and our room was ready and we were given the room #. We did not have to go back to the front desk, we went straight to the room.

 

[PamOKW]

Pre-Check-In or Express Check-In was a special service they used to offer before the resorts sold-out and the majority of folks were members. It had several variations but basically you called ahead and did all the charge card information etc. on the phone. In the lobby, they had a special desk for Member Express Check-In and you just walked over and got your packet. The room was not necessarily ready. It was one of those "goodwill" things where members bypassed any line that might have existed. Of course, when 99% of the line is members it doesn't make sense to continue.

 

[Joe T.]

We've had a mixed bag of check-in experiences. This summer we checked in at 9:00 am, and both (2) Grand Villas at OKW were ready. We had a couple of infants with us this trip so we were plenty happy with that unexpected treat. In the past couple of years we've had to wait until after 5:00 pm for a studio at BWV and a 2 bedroom at OKW.

Villa readiness is a direct function of the condition of the villa as we leave. Now that owners are the most frequent users, we should see improvements in the time. Several years ago, I needed to talk to a CM at OKW. I found her just starting to clean a villa. I could not believe that humans had been in the place. Food was everywhere, dirty dishes were piled in the sink as well as in the living area. There was at least three dishwasher loads.Furniture was moved out of place. I didn't see the bedrooms or bathrooms, but I could imagine. Hopefully, we all understand that the better we leave the place , the faster our fellow DVCers can get in. Of course, the cynics among us will say that Disney will cut staff.

 

[PamOKW]

Unfortunately, Joe I don't think all members do regard it as their "home" and are just as likely to leave things in the condition you found as someone who booked through Disney or rented points. Slobs are slobs....members or not.

 

[okwmiester]

Another change that I might add (most may not know this) but OKW used to host the greatest new years eve parties for children ages 4-12. I mean it was all first class silver serving buffet, white cloth, decorations, activities and disney characters!!! We had used this every NYE since 92 until it ended in 2000. I was told that they suffered big financial losses since few members took advantage of the event. I was in awe of their efforts to go out of their way for the kids!!!

Doug