CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[godisney14]

I detest the politics in all of this. Yes, I really can believe that COVID is real, I want to be among the first to get the vaccine AND I believe whole-heartedly that schools and most businesses can and should be open right now with safety measures in place, regardless of what the data is showing. There are those at both ends of the spectrum that are aghast at even the suggestion of that however. Unfortunately, that has resulted in both states being open with almost no restrictions, simultaneously with states being locked down tight-as-a-drum. Neither approach is doing us any good. Will vaccine distribution also be politicized? At least in CA, It seems like it is already happening.

How so?

 

[DLgal]

I think people will begin to waffle a bit on their anti-vaccine stance when they can't safely rejoin society. I have read that once we get the vaccine, that masks will still need to be a part of our lives for awhile. This is because the vaccinated can still carry the virus in our nasal passages, and potentially pass it to others, essentially as a carrier. And so if the non-vaccinated go to large indoor sporting events, or concerts or other settings like that, they risk becoming infected. Maybe some of them just need more time. I for one can't wait to get a semblance of my 2019 life back.

As of now, it is unknown whether any vaccine candidates actually prevent INFECTION (and thus, the ability to spread the virus). All we know is that they prevent severe Covid disease, which was the point of the vaccines, similar to the flu vaccine (which also does not prevent infection, just prevents severe illness). More data is obviously needed, and maybe the vaccine companies have that, and maybe they don't. I don't know if there is an ethical way to determine whether the vaccine prevents infection/spreading without purposely exposing vaccine recipients to the virus and then taking samples from them afterwards. So, as of now, yes, we will have to continue to mask up even after receiving a vaccine, at least while we wait for the majority of people to get vaccinated. After awhile, people who have chosen not to get vaccinated will have to fend for themselves.

 

[Allison]

The ramifications of low levels of literacy and science aptitude are biting us in the tush right now!

I agree.

 

[ronandannette]

Pfizer vaccine production:

US: Kalamazoo MI, ST. Louis MO, Andover MA

I believe I also heard last week it’s also being produced in Belgium.

Thanks. Pfizer has several facilities in Canada but I haven't found any media that mention the vaccine will be produced here.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Meanwhile, at least in New York, the Javits Center and Comfort ship sat empty.

I agree that was very weird, and where did all those tents go that the army corps of engineers masterfully erected?

 

[Lumpy1106]

How so?

I'd rather not violate DisBoards policy, and will just say go back through the last couple of press conferences in sequence and decide for yourself.

 

[goofyernmost]

95% efficacy. 94% for the elderly.


Pfizer says Covid vaccine is 95% effective – plans to submit to FDA in 'days'
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/18/coronavirus-pfizer-vaccine-is-95percent-effective-plans-to-submit-to-fda-in-days.html?__source=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

For the elderly, just getting up in the morning is less than a 94% chance.

 

[Jonfw2]

As of now, it is unknown whether any vaccine candidates actually prevent INFECTION (and thus, the ability to spread the virus). All we know is that they prevent severe Covid disease, which was the point of the vaccines, similar to the flu vaccine (which also does not prevent infection, just prevents severe illness). More data is obviously needed, and maybe the vaccine companies have that, and maybe they don't. I don't know if there is an ethical way to determine whether the vaccine prevents infection/spreading without purposely exposing vaccine recipients to the virus and then taking samples from them afterwards. So, as of now, yes, we will have to continue to mask up even after receiving a vaccine, at least while we wait for the majority of people to get vaccinated. After awhile, people who have chosen not to get vaccinated will have to fend for themselves.

this is absolutely and entirely false. The vaccines DO PREVENT INFECTION. The infection rates for those receiving the vaccine were far lower than those who received the placebo. Because they prevent infection.

What are you even talking about?

 

[godisney14]

Slightly old survey by a month or so, but still interesting nonetheless. Could be different now with the recent surge.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm not denying that people have doubted covid is real. I am doubting that all of a sudden out of the blue nurses are popping up out of nowhere claiming that these patients are suddenly telling them this stuff. Where were they in spring?

I think the months of low/no infections in so many rural places gave the conspiracy theories time to gain traction. They probably believed it at first... then the whole country shut down and reopened and they hadn't heard of a single case in their circle of acquaintances but had heard over and over again from political figures that the crisis was being overblown and manipulated.

I have a friend who is a nurse engaged to a nurse and they've both told stories about patients refusing to believe the diagnosis, getting verbally abusive over isolation measures, etc. But in my area, the "its just a flu" thinking is astoundingly common so it really isn't a stretch to believe that the same people who are convinced that masks are some sort of new world order power grab or communist plot to undermine freedom wouldn't accept a positive covid diagnosis, even if the disease became serious. Plenty of them aren't bothering to stay home after a positive test as long as they "feel better" too.

That right there is a reason I've said my state locked down too soon. I don't think my area necessarily took measures toon soon. I think the ripple effect to the rest of the state is now reaping what was sowed as rural cases skyrocketed.

The community spread in my area is what it is with little excuse to give but in the more rural parts of my state they spent time at home, businesses closed, school buildings closed, hospitals closing or in financial distress, and more for something that wasn't around them at the time and wouldn't be for months. Then when it came they either were non-believers completely or were just simply exhausted from an unseen, mostly, thing out there or they experienced financial and emotional burdens. It's not a complete explanation but it's hard not to pay attention to that when you see the stories from the rural parts of my state, you see the rationales and more.

Yeah, that might have been the biggest misstep so far... Early on, this was treated as/presented as a short-term crisis and people pulled out all the stops in the state and federal response, which drained resources that would have been far better used in a more targeted fashion. And now, people are basically being given a choice between risking the virus or risking everything they've worked their whole lifetimes for, risking their family's stability, etc. and under that stress, the virus necessarily takes a backseat to other concerns in a way that could have been alleviated if we'd left something on the table (either federal stimulus or private reserves) earlier this year.

Well, I guess the good news about the first two vaccines is that they are apparently so effective that it gives us a bit of a cushion with respect to how much of the population gets it. Honestly, I think it should be like the MMR vaccine that is required before your kids can go to school. And I would expect that you're going to have to show proof of vaccine in order to travel in the future. DH and I had a big trip to Africa planned for last May, and in fact, we just made the appointment with our doctor for the vaccines that we needed to make the trip. We needed to show proof of the necessary vaccines in order to enter the country. And so, I really think that's where this is headed.

Most states have generous exemption policies, though, which will undermine the effectiveness of school mandates. Close to a quarter of students at my daughter's school have exemptions to some or all vaccines (per anonymous heath dept. data); I'm sure many if not most of those families will also opt out of the covid vaccine.

I think you're right about needing proof of vaccination for international travel. I doubt Americans will be allowed anywhere else in the world until those rules are in place. And I think many colleges will likely mandate it, at least for students living on campus. But broadly speaking, we have a terrible track record on "mandatory" vaccination and I don't think this situation is likely to change that in any significant way.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Slightly old survey by a month or so, but still interesting nonetheless. Could be different now with the recent surge.

View attachment 539164

I used to pay a lot of attention to that but then I realized it just kept changing too frequently and it depended on how it was asked. One month someone comes on the DIS discussing the percentage of people who wouldn't get a vaccine and then soon enough it's outdated.

For instance there's this from October comparing to mid-August:



At this point I don't think it does much with the polls asking about likelihood of getting a vaccine. Things changes too quickly both in the public's mindset and in the advancement of the vaccines themselves.

 

[aggiedog]

this is absolutely and entirely false. The vaccines DO PREVENT INFECTION. The infection rates for those receiving the vaccine were far lower than those who received the placebo. Because they prevent infection.

What are you even talking about?

I can't find a link to the story, but NPR had a scientist (a lady, I wan't paying attention to her name) on yesterday talking about exactly this. That they don't have proof that those that got the vaccine weren't simply asymptomatic but still shedding virus, and that is still part of the ongoing studies. Yes, vaccines in general DO stop infection, but I read that as making sure they were doing good science, especially in a vaccine form that has not been used this globally before. It would be really bad to not look into that aspect and find out those that were vaccinated were somehow still shedding significant amounts of virus. I suspect they will find out that infection was also not happening, but I'm glad to know they are investigating all aspects.

 

[Suger Mag]

Meanwhile, at least in New York, the Javits Center and Comfort ship sat empty.

I agree that was very weird, and where did all those tents go that the army corps of engineers masterfully erected?

The Comfort and the Javitz center when first set up (March) were not allowed to take Covid patients. Not until mid April when that designation changed. Those facilities were for NON COVID patients. Blaming Cuomo/NY for the admitting decisions made by the military (Comfort) or by FEMA (Javitz) is misplaced.

"But much to the frustration of healthcare workers, since that announcement, Javits has taken in nowhere near its capacity. As of April 7, the convention center had admitted only 66 patients. This was due in large part to the strict admission requirements. At first, a patient could only be transferred to Javits if they were convalescing, or in the recovery period. The fear was that Javits didn't have the ICU beds, operating rooms, or equipment necessary to handle patients who might relapse or need surgery because of an underlying condition.

One nurse in an East Harlem hospital anonymously told the New York Post that there was a 25-point checklist to transfer a patient into Javits. Out of 95 patients they requested for transfer, only one met the standards."


https://www.businessinsider.com/why...spital-javits-center-pretty-much-empty-2020-4
https://www.defense.gov/Explore/New...javits-center-open-care-to-covid-19-patients/

 

[mom2rtk]

The Comfort and the Javitz center when first set up (March) were not allowed to take Covid patients. Not until mid April when that designation changed. Those facilities were for NON COVID patients. Blaming Cuomo/NY for the admitting decisions made by the military (Comfort) or by FEMA (Javitz) is misplaced.

"But much to the frustration of healthcare workers, since that announcement, Javits has taken in nowhere near its capacity. As of April 7, the convention center had admitted only 66 patients. This was due in large part to the strict admission requirements. At first, a patient could only be transferred to Javits if they were convalescing, or in the recovery period. The fear was that Javits didn't have the ICU beds, operating rooms, or equipment necessary to handle patients who might relapse or need surgery because of an underlying condition.

One nurse in an East Harlem hospital anonymously told the New York Post that there was a 25-point checklist to transfer a patient into Javits. Out of 95 patients they requested for transfer, only one met the standards."


https://www.businessinsider.com/why...spital-javits-center-pretty-much-empty-2020-4
https://www.defense.gov/Explore/New...javits-center-open-care-to-covid-19-patients/

It was a dynamic time with all sorts of fast changes in course.

I'm not saying staff on the ground should have moved patients there in violation of protocol. I'm saying that the high ranking decision makers (some of whom brag now about how they handled it) needed to make the appropriate changes to fully utilize those resources. Especially at a time the need was so great for an alternative for those long term care facility patients.

 

[Jonfw2]

I can't find a link to the story, but NPR had a scientist (a lady, I wan't paying attention to her name) on yesterday talking about exactly this. That they don't have proof that those that got the vaccine weren't simply asymptomatic but still shedding virus, and that is still part of the ongoing studies. Yes, vaccines in general DO stop infection, but I read that as making sure they were doing good science, especially in a vaccine form that has not been used this globally before. It would be really bad to not look into that aspect and find out those that were vaccinated were somehow still shedding significant amounts of virus. I suspect they will find out that infection was also not happening, but I'm glad to know they are investigating all aspects.

For this to be the case, you would have to call the results of these studies- in which 45,000 people received the actual vaccines- coincidental. Simply a coincidence that people were developing antibodies and T cells and not getting Covid while those who got the placebo were getting it.

 

[tvguy]

Back to the original post: "CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October" Almost December, guess we missed October.

 

[Suger Mag]

It was a dynamic time with all sorts of fast changes in course.

YUP!! I think the best analogy I heard is that Covid is like building an airplane while also simultaneously flying it....

We are all human, even our leaders and no one is above making mistakes. Science is a process and this pandemic had lots of people making decision's that in hindsight perhaps should have been reconsidered. Just got to learn, adapt and be better prepared for the future. Covid will not be the last virus.

I for one, just have to say, I am so impressed and proud of our healthcare workers and scientists!! I teach pre nursing students and I am so proud of all the healthcare workers giving so much and working so hard!!
The scientists working on all these vaccine candidates... Kudos, and my everlasting thanks and gratitude!! They are saving the world as we know it!! Still can't believe that we will see vaccine this 2020 (even in limited supply, still wow), Just amazing and inspirational!!

 

[Jonfw2]

Back to the original post: "CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October" Almost December, guess we missed October.

Was it imprudent to have them prepared early?

 

[LuvOrlando]

Was it imprudent to have them prepared early?

I suspect this was just an attempt to keep the thread from veering too far off course into choppy water.

 

[mom2rtk]

We are all human, even our leaders and no one is above making mistakes.

Glad to hear that.