CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[gwynne]

I'm not denying that people have doubted covid is real. I am doubting that all of a sudden out of the blue nurses are popping up out of nowhere claiming that these patients are suddenly telling them this stuff. Where were they in spring?

They were working hard, caring for their patients.
And it's no surprise that over time some voices have grown far more strident. They have had months to "firm up" their belief that it's all a hoax.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I'm not denying that people have doubted covid is real. I am doubting that all of a sudden out of the blue nurses are popping up out of nowhere claiming that these patients are suddenly telling them this stuff. Where were they in spring?

I've only seen the one nurse who was interviewed on CNN. She was in one of the Dakotas, two states that are getting slammed now, but did not in the spring. And both very red states. So, that could have something to do with it. There's no denying that the whole hoax/downplaying of Covid plays along political lines. That's possibly the saddest part of this whole mess.

 

[huskies90]

Keep in mind, a vaccine for only 25 million at the start will also coincide with surges happening right now.. Which means on a positive note, the numbers of vaccinated AND the numbers of those Covid recovered (antibodies) will help in a small way in starting some form or herd immunity. Do the math,, 12 million already in the US and over 100 thousand a day new.... By time the vaccine comes out 10% of the US might already have antibodies... add this to another 10% in the first batch...

Remember, you are stating the number of confirmed cases meaning, positive test results. There are millions of people who were sick and were never tested - especially in the Spring/early Summer and even more asymptomatic people who had it and have not been tested. I would guess the 12 million cases you referenced is closer to 60 million who have been exposed and probably have antibodies. As for how long the immunity lasts, this recent article hints it may last years...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/health/coronavirus-immunity.html

 

[Jonfw2]

They were working hard, caring for their patients.
And it's no surprise that over time some voices have grown far more strident. They have had months to "firm up" their belief that it's all a hoax.

Fair enough. If you can point me to a source other than someone's Twitter post, I'd be obliged.

 

[Jonfw2]

I've only seen the one nurse who was interviewed on CNN. She was in one of the Dakotas, two states that are getting slammed now, but did not in the spring. And both very red states. So, that could have something to do with it. There's no denying that the whole hoax/downplaying of Covid plays along political lines. That's possibly the saddest part of this whole mess.

Yes. She's the primary one I've seen. My suspicion is her story is a very exaggerated version of what actually happened. I think it's very possible that one person made an offhand comment to her and she...well, sort of big-fished the rest of it.

 

[gotomu212]

I'm not denying that people have doubted covid is real. I am doubting that all of a sudden out of the blue nurses are popping up out of nowhere claiming that these patients are suddenly telling them this stuff. Where were they in spring?

Based on two personal examples I believe these red state health care workers. My mother lives in somewhat rural Midwest. In the spring they were all scared and locked down, then the virus never came, and over and over again they heard from news sources and leaders that this wasn't real, and no one they knew had gotten it. They were ready to take it seriously but without personal evidence and against constant attack they changed their beliefs about it.

Flash forward and it has arrived. Her neighbor died and even while she was in the hospital her husband was telling everyone he was sure it was just flu or bronchitis or something. Another church acquaintance has been telling everyone it was a hoax and after the election it would come out that it was a coordinated lie- she is very confused how she is now sick with a made up illness (like the cognitive dissonance I would have if gored by a unicorn on the street). That church’s minister has been preaching from the pulpit that it is a hoax by the democrats.

 

[Jonfw2]

Based on two personal examples I believe these red state health care workers. My mother lives in somewhat rural Midwest. In the spring they were all scared and locked down, then the virus never came, and over and over again they heard from news sources and leaders that this wasn't real, and no one they knew had gotten it. They were ready to take it seriously but without personal evidence and against constant attack they changed their beliefs about it.

Flash forward and it has arrived. Her neighbor died and even while she was in the hospital her husband was telling everyone he was sure it was just flu or bronchitis or something. Another church acquaintance has been telling everyone it was a hoax and after the election it would come out that it was a coordinated lie- she is very confused how she is now sick with a made up illness (like the cognitive dissonance I would have if gored by a unicorn on the street). That church’s minister has been preaching from the pulpit that it is a hoax by the democrats.

Fair enough. Like I said, if there's anything beyond Twitter posts, I'm all ears.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In the spring they were all scared and locked down, then the virus never came,

That right there is a reason I've said my state locked down too soon. I don't think my area necessarily took measures toon soon. I think the ripple effect to the rest of the state is now reaping what was sowed as rural cases skyrocketed.

The community spread in my area is what it is with little excuse to give but in the more rural parts of my state they spent time at home, businesses closed, school buildings closed, hospitals closing or in financial distress, and more for something that wasn't around them at the time and wouldn't be for months. Then when it came they either were non-believers completely or were just simply exhausted from an unseen, mostly, thing out there or they experienced financial and emotional burdens. It's not a complete explanation but it's hard not to pay attention to that when you see the stories from the rural parts of my state, you see the rationales and more.

 

[bennifer]

That right there is a reason I've said my state locked down too soon. I don't think my area necessarily took measures toon soon. I think the ripple effect to the rest of the state is now reaping what was sowed as rural cases skyrocketed.

The community spread in my area is what it is with little excuse to give but in the more rural parts of my state they spent time at home, businesses closed, school buildings closed, hospitals closing or in financial distress, and more for something that wasn't around them at the time and wouldn't be for months. Then when it came they either were non-believers completely or were just simply exhausted from an unseen, mostly, thing out there or they experienced financial and emotional burdens. It's not a complete explanation but it's hard not to pay attention to that when you see the stories from the rural parts of my state, you see the rationales and more.

I agree with this! I live in Western PA. Eastern PA was bad with many many cases and deaths at the beginning but western PA barely saw anything. The entire state shutdown, and it never really (until recently) came here. My county had maybe 70 cases total from March through Oct. now we’re seeing 80+ cases a day. A lot of people here STILL believe it’s either a hoax or just the flu. It’s sad, but I hear it every time I leave my house.

 

[Jonfw2]

many younger people with no underlying issues dying

Can you source this please?

 

[mousefan73]

Pfizer vaccine production:

US: Kalamazoo MI, ST. Louis MO, Andover MA

I believe I also heard last week it’s also being produced in Belgium.

And in Germany using Biontec facilities

 

[bennifer]

Can you source this please?

I’ll edit my post. My source is an immediate family member who works in the local hospital.

 

[Jonfw2]

I’ll edit my post. My source is an immediate family member who works in the local hospital.

Thank you. According to the CDC, 0-5 people under 24 are dying per week in the US from Covid. And that's with no mention of underlying issues.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

 

[bennifer]

Thank you. According to the CDC, 0-5 people under 24 are dying per week in the US from Covid. And that's with no mention of underlying issues.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

Lol- I’m also showing my age. By younger I meant people in their 30s and 40s.

 

[Jonfw2]

Lol- I’m also showing my age. By younger I meant people in their 30s and 40s.

Fair enough! Since the beginning of October, approximately 60 deaths per week in the 25-44 year old age group nationwide. And again, no mention of comorbidities there, but according to the below study from Stanford University, "deaths for people <65 years without underlying predisposing conditions are remarkably uncommon." Statistically, somewhere between .7% and 3.6% of the deaths in this group have no comorbidities (that can be found in table 4 on page 6).

https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/...FB4C8BBF0CF7061E8EDD6CD8A76B7D58D5DE95B9D4453

 

[NotUrsula]

I find the recent spate of nurses claiming people are denying covid with their dying breath very shaky. I've seen DOZENS of medical professionals respond to them very skeptically. For example, people dying of Covid are almost always on ventilators- they ain't talking.

AFAIK, there is no "spate" of nurses telling that story: only one nurse, Jodi Doering, from Woonsocket, SD. It was her contemplative Tweet on the subject that went viral. I'm not sure why she should have a reason to make up that story; she did not tweet it about it until this past Saturday, well after the Election. FWIW, her Tweet (quoted in full in this story) mentioned the ventilators. https://www.poynter.org/newsletters...eality-of-the-coronavirus-in-a-cnn-interview/

I don't think it matters if one nurse or 100 nurses encountered such a scenario: the idea that it happened even once should horrify us, because this is 2020, not 1520. We have the science to identify and verify the presence of invisible-to-the-human-eye contagious disease vectors. For the same reason that we know the world is not flat, we know that COVID is an actual contagious disease. The very idea that in this time and in this place, people who are trusted to lead our governments are willfully lying about that to members of the public -- and being believed by able adults? That's almost as frightening as the disease itself.

Psychologists have a term for the sort of denial we are speaking of: they call it "motivated reasoning". It's just as much a thing as COVID is, and just as toxic. We need to make it a point to contest it when it turns up in public discourse.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I agree with this! I live in Western PA. Eastern PA was bad with many many cases and deaths at the beginning but western PA barely saw anything. The entire state shutdown, and it never really (until recently) came here. My county had maybe 70 cases total from March through Oct. now we’re seeing 80+ cases a day. A lot of people here STILL believe it’s either a hoax or just the flu. It’s sad, but I hear it every time I leave my house.

Hi neighbor I'm on the Eastern border with NJ and it's been fairly steady, not too many naysayers over here, I am one of the counties hit first and hardest and it was never quite squelched, probably because we have a mixed demographic of people from elsewhere so people visit other places a lot for work and family. There is also a high minority population with very deep ties to the inner cities in both NYC and Philly, so there has been a constant churn. In the beginning I was upset with the way Pa seemed to be taking a laissez faire approach with this beast. However, after watching the counts like a hawk for months it seems that Dr.Rachel Levine and Gov Wolf have done an incredible job jockeying this thing. They kept the infection rates in a place where this state has been coming in at around #10 for infections most of the year and so I suspect a substantial number of the population on this side is now inoculated and so we may have enough buffers to prevent a cataclysmic event. I don't know this for certain but things appear to have been on a slow steady simmer so that resources can be diverted to another part of the state quickly if needed, time will tell. Dr Levine gave a public interview recently imploring cooperation and vigilance, if you haven't seen it check it out, she appeared poised and in control & seems to be doing a good job.

 

[Jonfw2]

AFAIK, there is no "spate" of nurses telling that story: only one nurse, Jodi Doering, from Woonsocket, SD. It was her contemplative Tweet on the subject that went viral. I'm not sure why she should have a reason to make up that story; she did not tweet it about it until this past Saturday, well after the Election. FWIW, her Tweet (quoted in full in this story) mentioned the ventilators. https://www.poynter.org/newsletters...eality-of-the-coronavirus-in-a-cnn-interview/

I don't think it matters if one nurse or 100 nurses encountered such a scenario: the idea that it happened even once should horrify us, because this is 2020, not 1520. We have the science to identify and verify the presence of invisible-to-the-human-eye contagious disease vectors. For the same reason that we know the world is not flat, we know that COVID is an actual contagious disease. The very idea that in this time and in this place, people who are trusted to lead our governments are willfully lying about that to members of the public -- and being believed by able adults? That's almost as frightening as the disease itself.

Psychologists have a term for the sort of denial we are speaking of: they call it "motivated reasoning". It's just as much a thing as COVID is, and just as toxic. We need to make it a point to contest it when it turns up in public discourse.

Understood. My issue is that the narrative quickly became that this is a common thing and a common opinion. I don't think either is the case.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I agree with this! I live in Western PA. Eastern PA was bad with many many cases and deaths at the beginning but western PA barely saw anything. The entire state shutdown, and it never really (until recently) came here. My county had maybe 70 cases total from March through Oct. now we’re seeing 80+ cases a day. A lot of people here STILL believe it’s either a hoax or just the flu. It’s sad, but I hear it every time I leave my house.

I think Tom Frieden, former C.D.C director has said this.....that we didn't need to lock down the whole country for a month in March/April, but just certain areas. And I agree, I think that set us up to really politicize this thing. You had blue states and blue cities getting hit incredibly hard early on, and so it took on that "city vs. rural/red vs. blue" kind of feel, and it just went from there. And then masks were politicized...on and on, to the point where there are literally millions of people who think this whole thing is a hoax.

 

[bennifer]

Hi neighbor I'm on the Eastern border with NJ and it's been fairly steady, not too many naysayers over here, I am one of the counties hit first and hardest and it was never quite squelched, probably because we have a mixed demographic of people from elsewhere so people visit other places a lot for work and family. There is also a high minority population with very deep ties to the inner cities in both NYC and Philly, so there has been a constant churn. In the beginning I was upset with the way Pa seemed to be taking a laissez faire approach with this beast. However, after watching the counts like a hawk for months it seems that Dr.Rachel Levine and Gov Wolf have done an incredible job jockeying this thing. They kept the infection rates in a place where this state has been coming in at around #10 for infections most of the year and so I suspect a substantial number of the population on this side is now inoculated and so we may have enough buffers to prevent a cataclysmic event. I don't know this for certain but things appear to have been on a slow steady simmer so that resources can be diverted to another part of the state quickly if needed, time will tell. Dr Levine gave a public interview recently imploring cooperation and vigilance, if you haven't seen it check it out, she appeared poised and in control & seems to be doing a good job.

You are the reason I think I need to move to the Eastern area! I agree with everything you said from the laissez faire approach in the beginning to the incredible job I think our governor and Dr Levine are doing. Also- I love love love Dr Levine. She was my security blanket at the beginning of all of this and I look forward to her briefings!