Casey Anthony TRIAL thread #2

[CurlyGirl]

Casey referred to physical discipline, not sexual assault, from George

Regardless of the type of abuse ... if you were abused (physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually, etc.) by your parent, would you want your child exposed to the same thing?

 

[irishbosoxfan]

I agree, she wouldn't. But George, and ex cop, would.

I am NOT saying I think that is what happened, but rather what the defense could say.

Also, as far as the placement of the 4th piece of duct tape found away from the body... I think the pp was trying to say she things it was covering the other bodily orifices on the bottom? I had never even thought of that before. When thinking of that it made me think well wouldn't it come out the ears then, too, but then I guess they covered the ears with duct tape as well? This just keeps getting stranger.

That's what the PP was trying to say. It's totally off base. Caylee was wearing a Pull-Up when she died so there's no reason to even entertain that idea.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

MaryAnn--There were 4 pieces of duct tape total. 3 across her face 1 seperate from the body.

Absolutely ( ) no evidence it was used to hold back body fluids. I also believe it was used on her wrists.

Thank you!

 

[ilovepete]

That's what the PP was trying to say. It's totally off base. Caylee was wearing a Pull-Up when she died so there's no reason to even entertain that idea.

OK good to know! I wasn't saying I believed that, just that I think that is what pp was getting at.

Was a Pull-Up found with her? I don't remember that part.

 

[crz4mm2]

Missed most of the day yest, and only caught about an hour this am due to an appt.
I am pretty confident with the state's case so far. I will be interested to see what the defense comes up with.
I think it will come down to exclusion... WHO else would have done it?
Can 2nd degree murder get life without parole?

 

[irishbosoxfan]

OK good to know! I wasn't saying I believed that, just that I think that is what pp was getting at.

Was a Pull-Up found with her? I don't remember that part.

Yes they found the remains of her Pull-Up as well.

 

[Seahunt]

.if Caylee accidentally drowned in the pool. . .even if you were grossly negligent in her drowning. . .why would you cover it up and dispose of her body?

One thought just off the top of my head is that Casey would know that Cindy and George could figure out that the ladder would have had to be placed so that Caylee could have climbed in and drowned. So there would be nothing "accidental" about it, i.e. Caylee couldn't have just walked over and fell into it, like she could if it was an inground pool, and Casey would get blamed. Voila, cover up begins. Casey then has 31 days to think how to explain everything, and voila, kidnapping lie/story starts.

You have to keep in mind that Casey is a pathological liar to the nth degree and will stick with a lie even when it's proven to be untrue, no matter what.

JMO though, I don't think there was any drowning involved. Right now (and this theory could and has changed many times in my mind!) I think she had Caylee in the car trunk and had her drugged and taped to be quiet while she was partying and Caylee died.

In March '08 she was looking up:
- PC search "chloroform" (note - 84 times!)
- PC search "making weapons"
- PC search "self defense"
- PC search "neck breaking"
- PC search "shovel"

This and lots of other good info here, click on each date and it will bring up:

http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_directory_index.htm

She also was searching here:

Digging through Casey's Internet history, Eyewitness News discovered evidence she was surfing missing children web sites months before Caylee disappeared. She visited one more than a year ago. Ironically, now Caylee's picture takes center stage on that same site.

Right before she was arrested she put up this quote from rapper Tupac which reads:

"You can spend minutes, hours, days, weeks or even months over-analyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what could've, would've happened. Or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the [expletive] on."

Guess she decided to just leave the pieces in the woods and move on.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17567178/detail.html

 

[Aisling]

I'll take a shot at it. IMO Casey is mentally ill and there is no way I would give her the death penalty. She has some kind of ability to disconnect that most of us will never understand. I don't think she is even aware of her illness as it's all she knows.

My right hand is in a cast so it is a little hard to type but I do want to give you all an opinion of a completely neutral party. That person is my mother. She is retired after 30 years of Law Enforcement including 15 of those years as the head of a crime lab in a capital city and the last 12 with the FBI as a CSI. She has played a part in MANY capital murder cases all over the country over the years.

She came up to stay with us a month ago and I got her involved with this case at the tail end of jury selection. Now she is back home and glued to the TV watching this train wreck. You do need to keep in mind she knew very little about this case until a month ago.

Flame suit is on and I'm hiding my good hand but here goes.

She feels.

The state has done a terrible job showing cause.

The duct tape was used to stop body fluids after death. There were three pieces of tape found, two were connected to hair and the third was 9 feet away from the body. Do the math. She has seen this many times as well as the use of trash bags.

Kronk is a Prosecution nightmare in the making and the state should have called him to the stand. By not doing so they gave the DT a smoking gun. He's a meter reader (could have been a witness) the open gate Cindy testified about. The body no longer where it was buried (where the dog hit) and him calling LE 3 times in August after the reward hit $250,000 Then the area flooded and he had to chill until December to call again. Not to mention he told two people he was going to be rich and famous (two people, one being his own son stated this in their depositions)

The single hair in the trunk could have ended up there so many ways it isn't even worth talking about.

She believes George and Cindy are still very much on board with Casey. That they will let themselves be discredited by the DT to help Casey and it is a plan long in the making. They used the media at just the right time (two weeks before jury selection when the media hype was at it's highest point) to "pull back" their support for Casey. Again, nothing new if you spend enough time in a court room.

Ther is no reason for Casey to take the stand. The state hasn't proven anything other than Casey is a heartless party girl who likes tattoos. What the state did do a good job of is calling one friend after the other to sit on the stand and say casey was a loving and good mother

So there you go Aisling. You wanted to hear what the other side thinks so I bit the bullet for ya. Be nice if you reply

As unpopular as my response will be, what you say makes sense to me. In my opinion, the state hasn't proven a motive. The circumstantial evidence ls tremendous against Casey, but the defense did put that little twinge of premeditated doubt in my mind. Even with the googling of chloroform, the defense put it in my mind that it could have been for other reasons, like mixing drugs for a high. I just don't know.

I'm trying to be unbiased so I'm thinking everything out, but I admit bias does come into play when I see that baby and then see Casey partying on video. But that doesn't prove anything.

I could never be on a jury, because I'd go back and forth between wanting Casey to fry and knowing that anything is possible without absolute concrete proof, even the possibility that she didn't do it.

It's like all the pieces of a puzzle are there except for the one piece that shows you what the picture is. It may look 99% something, but without that one last piece, there's room for my assumptions being wrong.

 

[epcot.girl]

Regardless of the type of abuse ... if you were abused (physically, mentally, emotionally, sexually, etc.) by your parent, would you want your child exposed to the same thing?

Reactions to abuse (physical, psychological, sexual, etc.) can be highly varied and complex. It's nowhere near as simple as you're making out. I speak from experience.

 

[kidshop]

As unpopular as my response will be, what you say makes sense to me. In my opinion, the state hasn't proven a motive. The circumstantial evidence ls tremendous against Casey, but the defense did put that little twinge of premeditated doubt in my mind. Even with the googling of chloroform, the defense put it in my mind that it could have been for other reasons, like mixing drugs for a high. I just don't know.

I'm trying to be unbiased so I'm thinking everything out, but I admit bias does come into play when I see that baby and then see Casey partying on video. But that doesn't prove anything.

I could never be on a jury, because I'd go back and forth between wanting Casey to fry and knowing that anything is possible without absolute concrete proof, even the possibility that she didn't do it.

It's like all the pieces of a puzzle are there except for the one piece that shows you what the picture is. It may look 99% something, but without that one last piece, there's room for my assumptions being wrong.

Wouldn't the only concrete proof of anything be a confession or a video of the crime? All cases are circumstantial based on the evidence.

 

[dnoyes]

Here's a little something to get you going on Roy Kronk.

New questions that we posed first here on Rose Speaks.com have finally come to light in filings on Thursday, November 19, 2009.

Roy Kronk, an ex-meter reader now, is said to have been very abusive to all three of his ex-wives and used duct tape on at least one of his ex-wives, Jill Kerley.

Kronk began his deposition on Thursday and late that afternoon the Motion, Memorandum of Law and a stunningly large amount of evidence against Kronk was filed by Casey Anthony’s defense team.

We here at Rose Speaks.com have always had questions about Kronk but investigators hang on to the fact that Kronk was “cleared by them and was a hero”. Remember it was Kronk who called 911 three times in August 2008, saying he saw something suspicious in the woods off Suburban Drive. When police did not pick up what is now being said was Kronk allegedly wanting the police to find Caylee’s body in August and when they did not, Kronk went back in December and found the body himself at the same place he said it was in August.

Roy Kronk’s son, Brandon, perhaps dropped the largest and most chilling bombshell against his father. Brandon’s mother said Kronk told Brandon two weeks before Thanksgiving and one month before making what is known as his forth visit to the scene where Caylee’s decomposed body was found, that “he, [Kronk], was going to be a hero on TV,” saying to his son Brandon” I know where Caylee is and I’m going to go get her.”

One of Roy Kronk’s ex-wives, Jill Kerley, who said they divorced after only four months, had the following exchange on a taped interview with Casey’s investigator, Mort Smith, which was released yesterday to the media.

Mort Smith: “When you learned Roy had found Caylee’s remains what went through your mind?”
Jill Kerley: “That he had done it”
Mort Smith: “Meaning?”
Jill Kerley: “He probably was the one who murdered Caylee Anthony or had something to do with it.”
.
Jill Kerly went on to say; “It was abusive — mentally and physically, he beat me up in front of his dad and I had to go the hospital. “The more I think about it, the more my gut tells me he had something to do with it,” Kerley said, “He, [Kronk], duct taped my hands one time.”

Jill Kerley: “He said it was 100 mph duct tape”
Mort Smith: “And how often did he duct tape you?”
Jill Kerley: “On two occasions.”

Crystal Sparks, another of Roy Kronk’s ex-wives, and the mother of Brandon, had this exchange with Casey’s investigator, Mort Smith. “I think there’s a lot of concern for Roy being around young girls. Roy is not heard from. Roy is not seen. Roy is just non-existent in our lives, which is great for us. He made threats. He made constant threats against me. It was not uncommon for him to say ‘I should have killed you when I had the chance.’ I heard that all the time.”

Casey Anthony’s attorneys are clearly trying to connect Kronk to duct tape found at the crime scene with Caylee’s remains. They further indicate in the Motion, Memorandum of Law and other evidence presented to the Court on Thursday, that Roy Kronk, “knew of the location of Caylee Anthony’s remains and indeed may have had possession or control of them in November 2008 Roy Kronk, and not Miss Anthony, is equally likely to be responsible for the death of Caylee Anthony.”

April Applegate Hensley who was 11 at the time her mother lived with Kronk has said he came into her bedroom to watch her undress and made her feel uneasy, in her interview with the investigators. No word yet on what the third ex-wife said, or if that interview was filed with Thursday’s Motion. Other highlights of the Motion filed on Thursday by Casey’s defense team says; “they have evidence Kronk has a possible history of inappropriate behavior with young girls; that he has used duct tape to restrain women and that he has a history of abusing and restraining women”.

David Evans, Kronk’s lawyer said after the first day of deposition with Kronk when asked; “Is there a suggestion that somehow your client is involved in Caylee Anthony’s death? No, no, no, no,” was Evans Answer.

After hearing about the Motion being filed by Anthony’s legal team, Kronk’s attorney David Evans issued a statement:

“Today, the Casey Anthony defense team commenced, but did not complete, the deposition of Roy Kronk in the State v. Casey Anthony case. Shortly after adjourning the deposition, the Anthony defense team filed a Motion, Memorandum of Law, and accompanying materials suggesting that Roy Kronk, the individual who found Caylee Anthony’s remains and repeatedly reported his find to law enforcement agencies, should be considered a suspect in the murder of Caylee Anthony.

Mr. Kronk is a witness, not a suspect. He voluntarily appeared today and truthfully responded to all questions asked by Anthony’s attorney. He has cooperated fully with law enforcement from Day One. He has nothing to hide, and has hidden nothing.

It is the nature of criminal defense to attempt to find someone to blame for a crime other than the person charged. Mr. Kronk has understood from the beginning that the defense might attempt to cast suspicions in his direction–because that’s what defense attorneys do. In their zeal to defend Casey Anthony, defense counsel has filed papers with the Court that are filled with allegations that have no basis in fact and falsely accuse Mr. Kronk of various types of bad behavior.

The State will respond to these papers in due course in the criminal proceedings. As for Mr. Kronk, he vehemently denies the allegations against him and is confident that he will be vindicated. In the meantime, as he stated early on in this case, no good deed goes unpunished.”

Do you agree this is an explosive development in the Caylee Anthony murder case? Do you think the police was too quick to say Kronk was not a suspect but was a hero? Why did Kronk continue to go back to the exact same spot to call police all four times? Is Brandon and what his dad told him going to become a major development in this case? Did obsessive Infotainment News like Nancy Grace, Geraldo Rivera and Greta Van Susteren all for ratings and advertising dollars cause the wrong person to be arrested? Will Roy Kronk show up for the rest of his deposition? Does Roy Kronk in your opinion need to keep a lawyer during depositions and interviews? What are the Las Vegas odds on Kronk going to the same place four times in five months, and find the remains of little Caylee on the fourth visit? Why was Roy Kronk fired?

Rose Speaks.com is in the process of putting up more interviews and documents as they become available and will keep them on the site until after this is over, whoever ends up going to trial. Remember to also visit Rose Speaks You tube channel for videos related to this case.

©Rose Turner

 

[kidshop]

Here's a little something to get you going on Roy Kronk.

New questions that we posed first here on Rose Speaks.com have finally come to light in filings on Thursday, November 19, 2009.

Roy Kronk, an ex-meter reader now, is said to have been very abusive to all three of his ex-wives and used duct tape on at least one of his ex-wives, Jill Kerley.

Kronk began his deposition on Thursday and late that afternoon the Motion, Memorandum of Law and a stunningly large amount of evidence against Kronk was filed by Casey Anthony’s defense team.

We here at Rose Speaks.com have always had questions about Kronk but investigators hang on to the fact that Kronk was “cleared by them and was a hero”. Remember it was Kronk who called 911 three times in August 2008, saying he saw something suspicious in the woods off Suburban Drive. When police did not pick up what is now being said was Kronk allegedly wanting the police to find Caylee’s body in August and when they did not, Kronk went back in December and found the body himself at the same place he said it was in August.

Roy Kronk’s son, Brandon, perhaps dropped the largest and most chilling bombshell against his father. Brandon’s mother said Kronk told Brandon two weeks before Thanksgiving and one month before making what is known as his forth visit to the scene where Caylee’s decomposed body was found, that “he, [Kronk], was going to be a hero on TV,” saying to his son Brandon” I know where Caylee is and I’m going to go get her.”

One of Roy Kronk’s ex-wives, Jill Kerley, who said they divorced after only four months, had the following exchange on a taped interview with Casey’s investigator, Mort Smith, which was released yesterday to the media.

Mort Smith: “When you learned Roy had found Caylee’s remains what went through your mind?”
Jill Kerley: “That he had done it”
Mort Smith: “Meaning?”
Jill Kerley: “He probably was the one who murdered Caylee Anthony or had something to do with it.”
.
Jill Kerly went on to say; “It was abusive — mentally and physically, he beat me up in front of his dad and I had to go the hospital. “The more I think about it, the more my gut tells me he had something to do with it,” Kerley said, “He, [Kronk], duct taped my hands one time.”

Jill Kerley: “He said it was 100 mph duct tape”
Mort Smith: “And how often did he duct tape you?”
Jill Kerley: “On two occasions.”

Crystal Sparks, another of Roy Kronk’s ex-wives, and the mother of Brandon, had this exchange with Casey’s investigator, Mort Smith. “I think there’s a lot of concern for Roy being around young girls. Roy is not heard from. Roy is not seen. Roy is just non-existent in our lives, which is great for us. He made threats. He made constant threats against me. It was not uncommon for him to say ‘I should have killed you when I had the chance.’ I heard that all the time.”

Casey Anthony’s attorneys are clearly trying to connect Kronk to duct tape found at the crime scene with Caylee’s remains. They further indicate in the Motion, Memorandum of Law and other evidence presented to the Court on Thursday, that Roy Kronk, “knew of the location of Caylee Anthony’s remains and indeed may have had possession or control of them in November 2008 Roy Kronk, and not Miss Anthony, is equally likely to be responsible for the death of Caylee Anthony.”

April Applegate Hensley who was 11 at the time her mother lived with Kronk has said he came into her bedroom to watch her undress and made her feel uneasy, in her interview with the investigators. No word yet on what the third ex-wife said, or if that interview was filed with Thursday’s Motion. Other highlights of the Motion filed on Thursday by Casey’s defense team says; “they have evidence Kronk has a possible history of inappropriate behavior with young girls; that he has used duct tape to restrain women and that he has a history of abusing and restraining women”.

David Evans, Kronk’s lawyer said after the first day of deposition with Kronk when asked; “Is there a suggestion that somehow your client is involved in Caylee Anthony’s death? No, no, no, no,” was Evans Answer.

After hearing about the Motion being filed by Anthony’s legal team, Kronk’s attorney David Evans issued a statement:

“Today, the Casey Anthony defense team commenced, but did not complete, the deposition of Roy Kronk in the State v. Casey Anthony case. Shortly after adjourning the deposition, the Anthony defense team filed a Motion, Memorandum of Law, and accompanying materials suggesting that Roy Kronk, the individual who found Caylee Anthony’s remains and repeatedly reported his find to law enforcement agencies, should be considered a suspect in the murder of Caylee Anthony.

Mr. Kronk is a witness, not a suspect. He voluntarily appeared today and truthfully responded to all questions asked by Anthony’s attorney. He has cooperated fully with law enforcement from Day One. He has nothing to hide, and has hidden nothing.

It is the nature of criminal defense to attempt to find someone to blame for a crime other than the person charged. Mr. Kronk has understood from the beginning that the defense might attempt to cast suspicions in his direction–because that’s what defense attorneys do. In their zeal to defend Casey Anthony, defense counsel has filed papers with the Court that are filled with allegations that have no basis in fact and falsely accuse Mr. Kronk of various types of bad behavior.

The State will respond to these papers in due course in the criminal proceedings. As for Mr. Kronk, he vehemently denies the allegations against him and is confident that he will be vindicated. In the meantime, as he stated early on in this case, no good deed goes unpunished.”

Do you agree this is an explosive development in the Caylee Anthony murder case? Do you think the police was too quick to say Kronk was not a suspect but was a hero? Why did Kronk continue to go back to the exact same spot to call police all four times? Is Brandon and what his dad told him going to become a major development in this case? Did obsessive Infotainment News like Nancy Grace, Geraldo Rivera and Greta Van Susteren all for ratings and advertising dollars cause the wrong person to be arrested? Will Roy Kronk show up for the rest of his deposition? Does Roy Kronk in your opinion need to keep a lawyer during depositions and interviews? What are the Las Vegas odds on Kronk going to the same place four times in five months, and find the remains of little Caylee on the fourth visit? Why was Roy Kronk fired?

Rose Speaks.com is in the process of putting up more interviews and documents as they become available and will keep them on the site until after this is over, whoever ends up going to trial. Remember to also visit Rose Speaks You tube channel for videos related to this case.

©Rose Turner

The defense stated that Caylee accidentally drowned and George covered it up. What is Kronk's role in the death of Caylee?

 

[CurlyGirl]

One thought just off the top of my head is that Casey would know that Cindy and George could figure out that the ladder would have had to be placed so that Caylee could have climbed in and drowned. So there would be nothing "accidental" about it, i.e. Caylee couldn't have just walked over and fell into it, like she could if it was an inground pool, and Casey would get blamed. Voila, cover up begins. Casey then has 31 days to think how to explain everything, and voila, kidnapping lie/story starts.

Even if it was an above ground pool, it still could've been an accidental drowning. Caylee was capable of climbing that ladder. She did so with someone standing behind her in case she fell. So, that tells me she could've gotten herself up on that pool deck on her own and could've fallen in. Just becuase it's an above ground pool doesn't mean someone couldn't accidentally drown in it.

Casey, Cindy & George knew Caylee could climb up that ladder. Casey could've easily have said "I took my eyes off of Caylee/I thought Caylee was sleeping on the sofa/insert whatever excuse and when I went to check on her, she was gone. I looked all over for her and found her in the pool. She knew how to climb the stairs but usually has someone behind her to be safe. She must've decided to do that on her own." and made it look like a total accident.

IF (huge IF because I do not think there was a drowning) that happened, Casey would've been charged with neglect/negligence for not watching her child. That would've been an easier sentence to swallow than what she faces now.

 

[lillygator]

Kronk has no role in the death and I too think the prosecution showed no motive.
I don't think case will turn out the way I had hoped for Inmate CA.

 

[wvjules]

They don't need to prove motive but I believe they did when they went though the 31 day timeline. Being free of responsbilities, able to party, go to PR, sleep around, etc. without have the "little snot" around was her motive, IMO. You know, live the "good life".

 

[crz4mm2]

IF the defense already claimed that Caylee ACCIDENTLY drown, then how are they going to get around that? Or are they just trying to claim that the Prosecution didn't PROVE their case?

Because Casey lied sooooo much, it is going to be very difficult to convince the jury WHICH lie is actually the truth, no?

 

[crz4mm2]

Kronk has no role in the death and I too think the prosecution showed no motive.
I don't think case will turn out the way I had hoped for Inmate CA.

Oh, I think they showed motive.

 

[sbtrfly74]

Kronk supposedly started looking in the area where Caylee was found after the National Inquirer came out with the story from the childhood friend that buried dead animals in that area with heart shaped stickers on it. I really wish the State had put her on the stand, but due to her getting 20k for her story they did not.

 

[Nancy]

As unpopular as my response will be, what you say makes sense to me. In my opinion, the state hasn't proven a motive. The circumstantial evidence ls tremendous against Casey, but the defense did put that little twinge of premeditated doubt in my mind. Even with the googling of chloroform, the defense put it in my mind that it could have been for other reasons, like mixing drugs for a high. I just don't know.

I'm trying to be unbiased so I'm thinking everything out, but I admit bias does come into play when I see that baby and then see Casey partying on video. But that doesn't prove anything.

I could never be on a jury, because I'd go back and forth between wanting Casey to fry and knowing that anything is possible without absolute concrete proof, even the possibility that she didn't do it.

It's like all the pieces of a puzzle are there except for the one piece that shows you what the picture is. It may look 99% something, but without that one last piece, there's room for my assumptions being wrong.

I said at the beginning of all this that even with all I know I don't think I could go with the 1st degree murder and the death penalty. I may "think" she has a motive but until it can be shown to me that there was 100 % a motive I could not sentence someone to death and I do believe in the death penalty.

Do I think she is guilty? yes, 100 % guilty, but not sure if pre-meditated or just spur of the moment or even maybe didn't mean to but it happened so she had to cover it up.

And right now unfortunately the only people that know the truth are Caylee and Casey. Since Caylee is dead we have Casey..and she will never tell. I think she believes her stories so in her mind she did nothing wrong.

 

[crz4mm2]

I said at the beginning of all this that even with all I know I don't think I could go with the 1st degree murder and the death penalty. I may "think" she has a motive but until it can be shown to me that there was 100 % a motive I could not sentence someone to death and I do believe in the death penalty.

Do I think she is guilty? yes, 100 % guilty, but not sure if pre-meditated or just spur of the moment or even maybe didn't mean to but it happened so she had to cover it up.

And right now unfortunately the only people that know the truth are Caylee and Casey. Since Caylee is dead we have Casey..and she will never tell. I think she believes her stories so in her mind she did nothing wrong.

Sociopaths think they are smarter than everyone else and will never get caught.....