Casey Anthony TRIAL thread #2

[dnoyes]

I know how this is going to sound, but bear with me.

Dr. G said 100% of accidental drownings are reported. How can this be possible? 100% ? There are so many missing people/children that I'm thinking couldn't some of them have drowned accidentally with the accompanying person panicking and dumping the body somewhere never to be found?

I mean, common sense and plain old human feelings would make the person call 911, but we're all not the same and there have to be exceptions.

I was trying to see Casey as innocent. What if Caylee did accidentally drown in the pool under Casey's care and Casey covered it up because she's seriously mentally ill and so was able to jolly along with her day without feelings because she's only capable of loving her own well being? Can someone answer this without emotion playing a part in your response and just be unbiased for a moment, focusing on the possibility of Casey being mentally ill?

I'll take a shot at it. IMO Casey is mentally ill and there is no way I would give her the death penalty. She has some kind of ability to disconnect that most of us will never understand. I don't think she is even aware of her illness as it's all she knows.

My right hand is in a cast so it is a little hard to type but I do want to give you all an opinion of a completely neutral party. That person is my mother. She is retired after 30 years of Law Enforcement including 15 of those years as the head of a crime lab in a capital city and the last 12 with the FBI as a CSI. She has played a part in MANY capital murder cases all over the country over the years.

She came up to stay with us a month ago and I got her involved with this case at the tail end of jury selection. Now she is back home and glued to the TV watching this train wreck. You do need to keep in mind she knew very little about this case until a month ago.

Flame suit is on and I'm hiding my good hand but here goes.

She feels.

The state has done a terrible job showing cause.

The duct tape was used to stop body fluids after death. There were three pieces of tape found, two were connected to hair and the third was 9 feet away from the body. Do the math. She has seen this many times as well as the use of trash bags.

Kronk is a Prosecution nightmare in the making and the state should have called him to the stand. By not doing so they gave the DT a smoking gun. He's a meter reader (could have been a witness) the open gate Cindy testified about. The body no longer where it was buried (where the dog hit) and him calling LE 3 times in August after the reward hit $250,000 Then the area flooded and he had to chill until December to call again. Not to mention he told two people he was going to be rich and famous (two people, one being his own son stated this in their depositions)

The single hair in the trunk could have ended up there so many ways it isn't even worth talking about.

She believes George and Cindy are still very much on board with Casey. That they will let themselves be discredited by the DT to help Casey and it is a plan long in the making. They used the media at just the right time (two weeks before jury selection when the media hype was at it's highest point) to "pull back" their support for Casey. Again, nothing new if you spend enough time in a court room.

Ther is no reason for Casey to take the stand. The state hasn't proven anything other than Casey is a heartless party girl who likes tattoos. What the state did do a good job of is calling one friend after the other to sit on the stand and say casey was a loving and good mother

So there you go Aisling. You wanted to hear what the other side thinks so I bit the bullet for ya. Be nice if you reply

 

[joviroxx]

I'll take a shot at it. IMO Casey is mentally ill and there is no way I would give her the death penalty. She has some kind of ability to disconnect that most of us will never understand. I don't think she is even aware of her illness as it's all she knows.

My right hand is in a cast so it is a little hard to type but I do want to give you all an opinion of a completely neutral party. That person is my mother. She is retired after 30 years of Law Enforcement including 15 of those years as the head of a crime lab in a capital city and the last 12 with the FBI as a CSI. She has played a part in MANY capital murder cases all over the country over the years.

She came up to stay with us a month ago and I got her involved with this case at the tail end of jury selection. Now she is back home and glued to the TV watching this train wreck. You do need to keep in mind she knew very little about this case until a month ago.

Flame suit is on and I'm hiding my good hand but here goes.

She feels.

The state has done a terrible job showing cause.

The duct tape was used to stop body fluids after death. There were three pieces of tape found, two were connected to hair and the third was 9 feet away from the body. Do the math. She has seen this many times as well as the use of trash bags.

Kronk is a Prosecution nightmare in the making and the state should have called him to the stand. By not doing so they gave the DT a smoking gun. He's a meter reader (could have been a witness) the open gate Cindy testified about. The body no longer where it was buried (where the dog hit) and him calling LE 3 times in August after the reward hit $250,000 Then the area flooded and he had to chill until December to call again. Not to mention he told two people he was going to be rich and famous (two people, one being his own son stated this in their depositions)

The single hair in the trunk could have ended up there so many ways it isn't even worth talking about.

She believes George and Cindy are still very much on board with Casey. That they will let themselves be discredited by the DT to help Casey and it is a plan long in the making. They used the media at just the right time (two weeks before jury selection when the media hype was at it's highest point) to "pull back" their support for Casey. Again, nothing new if you spend enough time in a court room.

Ther is no reason for Casey to take the stand. The state hasn't proven anything other than Casey is a heartless party girl who likes tattoos. What the state did do a good job of is calling one friend after the other to sit on the stand and say casey was a loving and good mother

So there you go Aisling. You wanted to hear what the other side thinks so I bit the bullet for ya. Be nice if you reply

OK. lets go with this. Ill just ask one question... Caylee is dead. Who did it? With the information that is out there, and the definition of reasonable doubt, who else BESIDES Casey could have done this? I have reasonable doubt when there is another alternative... I don't see one. When you put it all together , what does your logic tell you happened? What would be the reasonable doubt? In order to not think Casey is guilty you have to believe everyone else is lying or in come kind of conspiracy.

Personally, I think the State's weakest part is the motive (though I realize they do not need to prove one). I wish they could have gone deeper into the relationship with Cindy. The jealousy, the resentment, etc.. I am so interested to hear the closing statements. I think the State will really put it together clearly.

 

[plutotek]

There may be cases where the body was never recovered. You just can't claim 100%.

...but I don't think her testimony should have been allowed the way it was. She did not give evidence. She gave opinion. True, her opinion is based on experience, but it is still opinion. It cannot be alleged to be fact.

Without the ability to definitively identify the cause of death, which she said she could not do, she could not definitely say it was a homicide. The defense should have thrown up a huge objection to this. More experienced attorneys would have been all over this.

I normally don't believe in 100%, but I am hard pressed to find or think of a case where an accidental drowning would NOT result in a call to 911.

As for her testimony, hers was EXPERT testimony, which means that unlike you or me, she can render an opinion based on the facts, experience and exams. When you take all the facts and combine them, her statement is logical and reasonable. Like she said, dead body+duct tape on mouth+in a garbage/laundry bag=homicide (a reasonable man would not call that a suicide or accident, given the facts). Now, if the defense introduces evidence to the contrary, she could change her finding.

As for the question of sanity, she may be a sociopath or even a psychopath, but that doesn't necessarily qualify for a diminished capacity defense. Of course, based on what I've seen of the jailhouse videos, it seems as if she'd fight tooth and nail to be presented in the most flattering light.

 

[Wadecool]

I'll take a shot at it. IMO Casey is mentally ill and there is no way I would give her the death penalty. She has some kind of ability to disconnect that most of us will never understand. I don't think she is even aware of her illness as it's all she knows.

My right hand is in a cast so it is a little hard to type but I do want to give you all an opinion of a completely neutral party. That person is my mother. She is retired after 30 years of Law Enforcement including 15 of those years as the head of a crime lab in a capital city and the last 12 with the FBI as a CSI. She has played a part in MANY capital murder cases all over the country over the years.

She came up to stay with us a month ago and I got her involved with this case at the tail end of jury selection. Now she is back home and glued to the TV watching this train wreck. You do need to keep in mind she knew very little
about this case until a month ago.

Flame suit is on and I'm hiding my good hand but here goes.

She feels.

The state has done a terrible job showing cause.

The duct tape was used to stop body fluids after death. There were three pieces of tape found, two were connected to hair and the third was 9 feet away from the body. Do the math. She has seen this many times as well as the use of trash bags.

Kronk is a Prosecution nightmare in the making and the state should have called him to the stand. By not doing so they gave the DT a smoking gun. He's a meter reader (could have been a witness) the open gate Cindy testified about. The body no longer where it was buried (where the dog hit) and him calling LE 3 times in August after the reward hit $250,000 Then the area flooded and he had to chill until December to call again. Not to mention he told two people he was going to be rich and famous (two people, one being his own son stated this in their depositions)

The single hair in the trunk could have ended up there so many ways it isn't even worth talking about.

She believes George and Cindy are still very much on board with Casey. That they will let themselves be discredited by the DT to help Casey and it is a plan long in the making. They used the media at just the right time (two weeks before jury selection when the media hype was at it's highest point) to "pull back" their support for Casey. Again, nothing new if you spend enough time in a court room.

There is no reason for Casey to take the stand. The state hasn't proven anything other than Casey is a heartless party girl who likes tattoos. What the state did do a good job of is calling one friend after the other to sit on the stand and say casey was a loving and good mother

So there you go Aisling. You wanted to hear what the other side thinks so I bit the bullet for ya. Be nice if you reply

No flames here, I actually find your moms opinion fascinating. The only thing I disagree with is the part in bold. I agree with the rest of the civilized world that Casey taking the stand is a suicide mission. But she has to take the stand now based on the opening statement by Baez because her own testimony will be the only way the jury will hear about this so called abuse by George and get it on the record. Since her defense is tied to this abuse by her dad, how else will the jury hear about it unless Casey testifies? Of course, if she does take the stand, the prosecutors will destroy her, but that is her attorneys fault. Baez has really painted himself and Casey into a corner with
this defense.

 

[Mosoh]

I know how this is going to sound, but bear with me.

Dr. G said 100% of accidental drownings are reported. How can this be possible? 100% ? There are so many missing people/children that I'm thinking couldn't some of them have drowned accidentally with the accompanying person panicking and dumping the body somewhere never to be found?

I mean, common sense and plain old human feelings would make the person call 911, but we're all not the same and there have to be exceptions.

I was trying to see Casey as innocent. What if Caylee did accidentally drown in the pool under Casey's care and Casey covered it up because she's seriously mentally ill and so was able to jolly along with her day without feelings because she's only capable of loving her own well being? Can someone answer this without emotion playing a part in your response and just be unbiased for a moment, focusing on the possibility of Casey being mentally ill?

I think she is right.

Consider that there is no way to determine the cause of death. A claim that it was an accidental drowning can not be proven either. She looked at all accidental drownings. 100% of the time, they are reported to EMS. - otherwise how would anyone know?

Now trying to see Casey as innocent, the several layers of duct tape, George's knowing but not confirming and his orchestrating the hiding the body with Kronk is a great deal to take on faith

I think she would have had a much better chance if the defense team simply stopped at the accidental drowning and panic But then again the tape is troubling.

 

[Feralpeg]

I normally don't believe in 100%, but I am hard pressed to find or think of a case where an accidental drowning would NOT result in a call to 911.

As for her testimony, hers was EXPERT testimony, which means that unlike you or me, she can render an opinion based on the facts, experience and exams. When you take all the facts and combine them, her statement is logical and reasonable. Like she said, dead body+duct tape on mouth+in a garbage/laundry bag=homicide (a reasonable man would not call that a suicide or accident, given the facts). Now, if the defense introduces evidence to the contrary, she could change her finding.

As for the question of sanity, she may be a sociopath or even a psychopath, but that doesn't necessarily qualify for a diminished capacity defense. Of course, based on what I've seen of the jailhouse videos, it seems as if she'd fight tooth and nail to be presented in the most flattering light.

I agree that she is an expert. She still cannot say definitively that Caylee's death was the result of a homicide. The circumstancial evidence points that way, but that does not make it a fact.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

He was denied on all counts. You can't do much worse than that

That was to be expected. It's not a result of a bad presentation of the motion.

My right hand is in a cast so it is a little hard to type but I do want to give you all an opinion of a completely neutral party. That person is my mother. She is retired after 30 years of Law Enforcement including 15 of those years as the head of a crime lab in a capital city and the last 12 with the FBI as a CSI. She has played a part in MANY capital murder cases all over the country over the years.

She came up to stay with us a month ago and I got her involved with this case at the tail end of jury selection. Now she is back home and glued to the TV watching this train wreck. You do need to keep in mind she knew very little about this case until a month ago.

Flame suit is on and I'm hiding my good hand but here goes.

She feels.

The state has done a terrible job showing cause.

The duct tape was used to stop body fluids after death. There were three pieces of tape found, two were connected to hair and the third was 9 feet away from the body. Do the math. She has seen this many times as well as the use of trash bags.

I'm not sure why your mother is a more "completely neutral party" than anyone else. But, OK.

It's my understanding that there were 3 pieces of tape ON Caylee, and one away from the body. And what "do the math" do you mean? And what has your mother seen many times...duct tape on a child's mouth, holding in fluids from an accidental drowning? Or the use of trash bags to discard a 2 yr old after an accidental drowning? Or what? I'm confused.

Don't know much about Kronk, what he did, what the defense said he'll do, what the prosecution will counter with...just waiting till the case is finished to comment on that.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

5th ammendment protects her.

Not in that case. Pleading the 5th protects you from incriminating herself. Not her accusations of others. If defense wants it in as "evidence"--SHE has to say it. Prosecution can only cross on what defense covers in their questioning. That would prevent the state asking about anything that would incriminate her. But testifying that George abused her and George said what he said--she would t be protected by the 5th amendment.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

This...

OK. lets go with this. Ill just ask one question... Caylee is dead. Who did it? With the information that is out there, and the definition of reasonable doubt, who else BESIDES Casey could have done this? I have reasonable doubt when there is another alternative... I don't see one. When you put it all together , what does your logic tell you happened? What would be the reasonable doubt? In order to not think Casey is guilty you have to believe everyone else is lying or in come kind of conspiracy.

Personally, I think the State's weakest part is the motive (though I realize they do not need to prove one). I wish they could have gone deeper into the relationship with Cindy. The jealousy, the resentment, etc.. I am so interested to hear the closing statements. I think the State will really put it together clearly.

And altho the defense doesn't have to prove anything, they did offer up as fact a highly unlikely (IMHO) scenario. I think they just dug Casey and themselves in deeper.

 

[dnoyes]

OK. lets go with this. Ill just ask one question... Caylee is dead. Who did it? With the information that is out there, and the definition of reasonable doubt, who else BESIDES Casey could have done this? I have reasonable doubt when there is another alternative... I don't see one. When you put it all together , what does your logic tell you happened? What would be the reasonable doubt? In order to not think Casey is guilty you have to believe everyone else is lying or in come kind of conspiracy.

Personally, I think the State's weakest part is the motive (though I realize they do not need to prove one). I wish they could have gone deeper into the relationship with Cindy. The jealousy, the resentment, etc.. I am so interested to hear the closing statements. I think the State will really put it together clearly.

She died in the pool.

And I agree with you they didn't do anything to show motive.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

I don't buy the "body fluids" excuse for the duct tape at all. Do you think your average 22 year old with not even a high school diploma knows that body fluids are expelled from the body upon death? I have a college degree and I didn't even know that until all this (I mean, makes sense, but I don't have a lot of knowledge about dead bodies).

 

[Halloweenqueen]

I would love for Casey to take the stand, but I highly doubt she will. They will "prove" the abuse by bringing on expert witnesses, such as a therapist or psychologist. They will bring sex abuse experts to talk about how victims behave long after the abuse.

The prosecution can not question her unless the defense puts her on. That's what I meant earlier.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

She died in the pool.

And I agree with you they didn't do anything to show motive.

They didn't and they didn't have to. But thy did an awesome job showing that Casey benefitted from Caylee's absence. Those actions are her downfall.

 

[Mosoh]

I don't buy the "body fluids" excuse for the duct tape at all. Do you think your average 22 year old with not even a high school diploma knows that body fluids are expelled from the body upon death? I have a college degree and I didn't even know that until all this (I mean, makes sense, but I don't have a lot of knowledge about dead bodies).

That's why I think they threw George into the equation

 

[chris1gill]

The reports are he has now been added as a witness for the defense.

This is interesting, but I have to say this is where the opening statement does not help Baez, perhaps he could have pinned it on this guy? We don't know the story except to say we have been told unequivocably that Caylee died by accidental drowning on the 16th, according to Baez. If he says something different now, was he lying then or is he lying now?

 

[Conservative Hippie]

This...

And altho the defense doesn't have to prove anything, they did offer up as fact a highly unlikely (IMHO) scenario. I think they just dug Casey and themselves in deeper.

I agree - all they had to do was plant the seed of reasonable doubt, and instead they put a story out there that now they are going to have to prove.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I would love for Casey to take the stand, but I highly doubt she will. They will "prove" the abuse by bringing on expert witnesses, such as a therapist or psychologist. They will bring sex abuse experts to talk about how victims behave long after the abuse.

The prosecution can not question her unless the defense puts her on. That's what I meant earlier.

I agree, They probably will not put on. But they cannot claim that she is protected by the 5th (regarding the theory/accusations) and expect or demand the jury to ignore it. PLUS--I do believe the experts will be an issue. Without Casey being their patient--who can put any credence to the relevance of their testimony if they A) never treated her or B) saw her for a one hour "let's talk" session.

Their opinions won't carry much weight if that is the case. Prosecution: "Casey lied about so many things, is it possible that this is another lie?". The only answer to that question is a profound NO.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

She died in the pool.

Well there ya go!

I don't buy the "body fluids" excuse for the duct tape at all. Do you think your average 22 old with not even a high school diploma knows that body fluids are expelled from the body upon death? I have a college degree and I didn't even know that until all this (I mean, makes sense, but I don't have a lot of knowledge about dead bodies).

And without getting graphic, I don't think the mouth is the only place where bodily fluids are expelled after death. And if one is going to multi-plastic-bag a child, does one really feel that duct tape is necessary as well? Just asking, because I'm one of those people who would reflexively CALL 9.1.1. when my child or grandchild or any child was found in my pool, so duct tape and stopping bodily fluids from an accidental drowning would be the last thing on my mind.

 

[joviroxx]

She died in the pool.

And I agree with you they didn't do anything to show motive.

OK, then why not report it? After 3 years? Why dispose the body in that manner? Why hide her in the car? If it was all innocent, why?

 

[Nancy]

I don't buy the "body fluids" excuse for the duct tape at all. Do you think your average 22 year old with not even a high school diploma knows that body fluids are expelled from the body upon death? I have a college degree and I didn't even know that until all this (I mean, makes sense, but I don't have a lot of knowledge about dead bodies).

I don't buy it either.