Can you develop an 'eye'

I think that just about anyone can have "an eye". But everyone's eye is different. Thats the beauty of photography. And I also think that your "eye" can develop/improve/change over time.

I find for myself, that looking at other peoples pictures helps me to view things in different ways. Take a picture the way you see it, then try it from a different angle. Or in different light. Thats one thing I look at more now is the light. Time of day, where the sun is, cloudy day, sunny day, dust, dawn. They all offer the exact same subject a completely different view. I love the way the light falls on objects in the early morning and late afternoon. These also happen to be the "golden" hours for "photographers". Unfortunately I either don't have my camera or don't have the time, but I still imagine how I would compose the shot.

Like anything else you do, the more you practice the more you improve. With photography, part of practicing doesn't necessarily mean using your camera. I've seen many pictures that I haven't taken (though I wish I did) mostly because my camera wasn't with me at the time. That doesn't mean you can't see it in your head and note it for future reference.

Get out there and use your camera and use your imagination. If you enjoy what your doing then the "good" ones will come. Hey, a bad day of photography is better than a good day at work. :teeth:
 
Mark and Bob...you both mention the rules or basics of composition. Where would I find these?

It's a looong post, this is close to the "rules" I try to use:
from http://photoguide.travellerspoint.com/7/

The Rules of Composition

18.12.2005

What's the difference between a good photograph and a bad photograph ? Assuming you've gotten the colours right at the printers, you don't have a thumb in the way, and you have proper focus and exposure, photographers are always talking about what are known as the "rules of composition" when discussing the technical merits of a photograph. Depending on who you talk to, there are great differences in opinion about how many actual "rules" there are. I was taught that there are 14. And for no other reason than that, that is what I'm going to teach you.

1) Center of interest
Every photograph has one of these. What's the image about? Is it a picture of your wife? Is it a picture of the Great Pyramids of Giza? It should be very obvious with a single glance to every viewer what the photograph is "about". While it's called the "center" of interest, it isn't necessarily true that the subject of interest is in the center, or takes up a large part of the image, it is nevertheless very obvious that that is what the photograph is about.

This is the first rule of good composition, because it is the most important. Decide before hand what it is that you are taking a picture of. Everything else you do is then focus around
bringing that center of interest out.

2) Fill the frame
This rule is here for mostly practical reasons. Film costs money. Even digital images will cost money to store and print. Once you decide what your center of interest is, fill the view finder with it. Get as much detail as you can. However there is a point at which it becomes too much. You want to fill the frame but you also want to leave some background and foreground to give a sense of context to your subject. I personally use around 80% as a guideline
for how much to fill. That's not a hard and fast rule and I break it all the time myself. It's really up to your good taste and the effect you want to create.

3) Lines
Lines are extremely important in visual arts. Lines give us shapes and contours. Lines are what lead the viewer's eyes from one part of the photograph to another.

4) Flow
After just finishing lines, we should talk about flow. Flow is how the viewer's eye is lead from one part of the photograph to another. One way to give flow to a photograph is to use lines. They
can be horizontal, vertical, diagonal, converging or diverging lines. Sometimes the flow created by lines is sharp and distinct (such as the sides of a building converging up into the sky), or they may be less obvious (such as a line of irregularly spaced stones that mark out a farmer's field). Nevertheless, the viewer's eye should be able to spot the same elements from one part of the image to another. Flow creates the illusion of motion (or lack of motion if so desired). Diagonal, converging or diverging lines are considered to be "dynamic" while horizontal and vertical lines are considered to be "static". A careful balance of dynamic and static elements will give an overall sense of motion to your photographs.

5) Direction
Direction is similar to flow. It also creates the illusion of motion. If something in the photograph appears to be "moving" then it most likely has a direction in which it is moving. One example of what I mean is the little stick man that you find in many traffic lights. One stick man seems to be standing up straight, legs together, arms next to the body. Most people will agree that he doesn't appear, visually, to be moving. This is obviously the "do not walk" signal. His counterpart has bent arms and bent & spread legs. He appears to be moving. This is obviously the "safe to walk" signal. The "safe to walk" signal has a direction in which he is moving as indicated by the bent arms and legs. The "do not walk" signal seems static and has no direction of motion. Direction in photographs can be created in a number of ways. A lone figure in the middle of a convergent path appears to have direction despite the fact that his arms and legs may not be moving. That's because we feel as if we were to see him a split second later, we just know, he'll have his legs moving down the path. Similarly, a partially captured car just entering the frame from the left will lead us to think that in the next split second it will be at the right of the frame.

6) Repetition
Repetition of some subject (a bunch of hot air ballons, a flock of flamingos) gives a sense of togetherness to parts of the image. For instance, a group of hot air balloons may all be heading off in one direction. That group may create interesting patterns in the sky and add direction to the image. It can also have important psychological factors such as giving a sense of togetherness and friendship.

7) Colours
There are warm colours and cold colours:

warm - red, orange, yellow
cold - blue, green, purple

There's a whole psychology thing with colours. Red's are "firey". Blue's are "tranquil". I won't go into it too much since I know there've been entire books written on the subject. So it should be
fairly obvious why this is an important element of composition.

With colours, pay attention to contrast as well. Contrast is defined as the difference in the level of brightness between the brightest and darkest parts of your image. However, contrast is also created by placing warm and cold colours next to each other.

8) Groups of 3's
I've been told there's something psychologically appealing about groups of 3's. One is lonely, two is too well balanced and static, four and above is too much of a crowd. But 3 is just perfect !!
You know, as in Goldielocks and the 3 bears, 3 Stooges, 3 Musketeers, 3 colours on a flag, books come in trilogies, etc. Some how we humans just like 3's. Don't ask me why, I'm not a psychologist.

Back to photography. If you are going to photograph a group of something, either go big and photograph a bunch of them, or look for groupings of 3's as your center of interest. It works, trust me !

9) Rule of 3rds
This has been around for a long time. If you go into a museum and look at any really good painting. Then imagine a 3x3 grid on top of the picture, you'll notice that important elements such as eyes,
windows, tops of mountains, horizon lines, etc. all line up with either one of the grid lines or at one of the intersections of the grid lines. It's claimed that by having your center of interest
at one of these points or lines, you get a much more interesting image.

Note: some cameras allow you to super-impose such a grid pattern on the view finder to aide in composition. Check your manual.

10) Negative Space
Basically large white or black space in the background (usually off to one side, but I've seen it done in other ways as well). Psychologically, we humans want to fill that space with our imagination (kind of like a cartoon thought balloon). It's a great trick because you can't go wrong. Whatever fills the negative space is interesting to the viewer because he/she came up with it herself !!

11) Foreground/Background
What's in the foreground and background is obviously important. This includes elements from the other rules, such as bright colours, or converging lines. But sometimes you can have too much in the foreground or background which will distract your viewer from your center of interest.

12) Framing
Look for things such as doorways, bridges, signs and other things to frame your subject under. It gives a sense of perspective and intimacy to the image. Ever notice they always have the bride walk through the big door into the church ? Ever notice how long hair can be used to frame the features of a face ?

13) Clutter
Clutter is having a lot of "stuff" in either the foreground or background. All those different shapes and shadows can distract (or in some cases if done well add to) from the center of interest. Cluttered images seem chaotic and disorganized.

14) S-Curves
A lot of people love S curves. It's very sensuous and sexy. It's the shape of a woman's profile. It's also a meandering river, or slithering serpent. It's very dynamic, but not a fast, hasty kind of motion, but a slower more sensuous movement. It's also harder to find in nature, so is considered more interesting.

So there you are, the 14 "rules of composition". How you use them is going to be up to you and your good taste.
 
My biggest problem is my photos are always ALWAYS CROOKED. Drives me crazy. I want some kind of meter inside that tells me they are straight or close to straight.

It's called extraocular imbalance (Ansel Adams, "The Camera, 1980, pg 113) and it is fairly common. I have it, big time, and unless I am making a concious effort to align the horizon my images all come out crooked.

Maybe it's a sign of a great artist! ;)
 
I think that just about anyone can have "an eye". But everyone's eye is different. Thats the beauty of photography. And I also think that your "eye" can develop/improve/change over time.

I find for myself, that looking at other peoples pictures helps me to view things in different ways. Take a picture the way you see it, then try it from a different angle. Or in different light. Thats one thing I look at more now is the light. Time of day, where the sun is, cloudy day, sunny day, dust, dawn. They all offer the exact same subject a completely different view. I love the way the light falls on objects in the early morning and late afternoon. These also happen to be the "golden" hours for "photographers". Unfortunately I either don't have my camera or don't have the time, but I still imagine how I would compose the shot.

Like anything else you do, the more you practice the more you improve. With photography, part of practicing doesn't necessarily mean using your camera. I've seen many pictures that I haven't taken (though I wish I did) mostly because my camera wasn't with me at the time. That doesn't mean you can't see it in your head and note it for future reference.

Get out there and use your camera and use your imagination. If you enjoy what your doing then the "good" ones will come. Hey, a bad day of photography is better than a good day at work. :teeth:

So True!! :thumbsup2 Photography IS light!!! Natural or flash, the right light in the right place can make such a difference in the quality of the final photo. When you start thinking in "light terms" it can help you to visualize the shot.
 

If you use a tripod, you might try one of those little flash shoe bubble levels. They are really handy.

I wonder if you can infer anything about a person's politics by whether their pictures lean left or right?

Once I post it, noone ever knows (well, Mark does...he has that magic ball thing going that tells him everything about photography)

It's really easy to tell if a person has "straightened" a photo in post processing. All non-Foveon based digital camera CMOS/CCD sensors user a Bayer filter to capture color. The filter is a three color checkerboard of red, blue, and green dots. Because human visual perspection is less attenuated in the green portion of the spectrum, the Bayer grid uses an RGBG matrix. Because of the patterned overrepresentation of green in the array, if you perform an angular rotation (other than 90, 180, or 270 degrees) of an image translated to an RGB-based colorspace (such as the common sRGB or Adobe RGB colorspaces) on an image from an RGBG source, smooth gradients show a slight green banding orthogonal to the axis of rotation that becomes obvious when you translate the photo to a CIE 1931 XYZ derived color space (such as CIELAB or Hunter LAB) and modulate either the “A” or “B” axis while leaving "L" constant.

Well, actually that’s a bunch of made up BS using some technical terms that I barely understand in vaguely plausible contexts. I have no idea how to tell when someone has made a small angular correction of a picture.
 
I'd like to emphasise that the "rules" of composition are guidelines and not requirements. It's good to understand them because they make it easier to take interesting pictures. It's also good to understand them so that you can see the consequences of breaking them and use that to your advantage.

A good example is breaking the "fill the frame" rule to give yourself "negative space". Going back to the example of a person running from the left to the right of the frame. If you wanted to fill the frame, you'd zoom in on them until they filled the frame. If you break that rule and leave empty space in front of them, the viewer imagines them going into that space and thinks about the journey ahead of the runner.

The advice to take lots of different pictures of the same thing is great. Another way to do the same thing is to take some of your existing pictures and try cropping them differently. It helps you see how different compositions of the same thing lead to very different interpretations.
 
I like to raise a point about lenses and perspective in composition discussions because there is a "fact" that many people believe that is actually wrong. People will often tell you that you should use a certain focal length lens for portraits because they give a more flattering perspective. A common example is to use an 80mm lens rather than a 24mm lens because the latter makes people look odd and makes their noses too prominent.

That's almost right but actually quite misleading. Lenses of all focal length share produce photographs with the same perspective. Perspective changes only when the camera or subject(s) move relative to one another. Wide angle lenses don't create the weird perspective. Instead, photographers create the weird perspective when they put the wide angle lens on. They do this because in order to fill the frame they have to walk up closer to their subject, thus changing the relative distance between the camera and subject. It's the distance change and not the lens change that affects the perspective.

To test this, take two pictures with radically different focal lengths from the same spot. Crop the wide angle shot to match the telephoto shot. You'll see that the perspective is the same.

So the admonition about what focal lengths to use for portraits is correct, but that's because they allow you to fill the frame while taking a picture from a place that provides good perspective. It's not because the focal length itself provides the good perspective. I guess you could say that people look better from farther away than they do up close. ;)
 
:hug:

I have yet to figure out if say the waves/lines of the beach/water should be straight or my husband. Seems both should but it is not always possible, so how do you decide which is more important to be straight? I thought my husband should be, but I really didn't like the crooked horizon.

It's called extraocular imbalance (Ansel Adams, "The Camera, 1980, pg 113) and it is fairly common. I have it, big time, and unless I am making a concious effort to align the horizon my images all come out crooked.

Maybe it's a sign of a great artist! ;)
 
The advice to take lots of different pictures of the same thing is great. Another way to do the same thing is to take some of your existing pictures and try cropping them differently. It helps you see how different compositions of the same thing lead to very different interpretations.

Great idea!!! Thanks!!
 
I mostly agree with Anewman's original response - it's partly "wired" and partly learned, just like learning to play a musical instrument. But even if you're not "wired" right, you can still do nearly as much, it just might take a little more thinking and work.

The various composition "rules" are handy but IMHO it's important to break the rules sometimes. Don't get hung up on whether or not your photo is perfectly in compliance with them, especially ones that can be corrected in post-processing.

Taking a proper class with other humans is very helpful, I feel. It's inspiring to see other's work and also you can feel a little bit of competition in order to make your photos look even better.

Knowing your camera is important, too, so that you can say "hey, that'd look great if I hit the right depth of field" or "that's a great shot but maybe I should bracket as there's too much dynamic range, so I can do a HDR later", or "I'm inside, I'd better set white balance manually or use RAW mode so I can adjust it later."

As for Mark's comments about different focal lengths and how they make things look, you can see that in action in several movies - I think the original example is from Hitchcock's "Vertigo", Spielberg used it in "Jaws", and it's been used many other times. The camera will dolly back or forward while zooming in or out of the character's face - basically, the face will remain more or less the same while the background appears to "stretch" unnaturally.
 
[/QUOTE]The advice to take lots of different pictures of the same thing is great. Another way to do the same thing is to take some of your existing pictures and try cropping them differently. It helps you see how different compositions of the same thing lead to very different interpretations.[/QUOTE]

Mark...did you take my class when you were a kid? That is actually the next assignment that I give my kids. Everyone gets the same picture and you have to try to make it different from everyone elses through cropping. The extension of that is to take a single picture and make a 3 or 4 panel composition with different cropping of a single picture. I laughed when I starting seeing these baby collages that all the photographers do now showing all the bits and parts of a baby. My students have been doing that for years! They loved it when I gave them a portrait to work with in this exercise.
 
Another point about perspective: I often look at a photo opportunity and try to make it fit the lens I have on the camera. That is not the best way to go about it.

Look at the scene, move around, decide what you want in (and out of) the image, what perspective you want, *then* choose the lens that suits your vision of the final image.

It sure takes longer and isn't always easy at WDW when we are running through the parks, but it almost always gives a better image.
 
I was an art teacher for 18 years. In all the years I taught I only encountered one student that had desire that just made no progress what so ever. That's out of thousands and thousands of kids over the years. I am a firm believer that your creativity is just like a muscle. The more you use it the "fitter" it will be come. The answer to developing that eye, creative spark, or your own style is simply through work. THere are no short cuts. Some people start the creative journey further down the road than others but if they don't work...they won't progress. It's just that their work seems so much like play nobody realizes that they are working too.

G-Z-G Mom, I so agree what you are saying about creativity being a muscle and needing practice to become fit. In fact, here's a quote I used with my teachers this year:

"It is a peculiarity of American culture that assigns so much of a learner’s success to their ability. Education research of Japanese and Chinese schools show that teachers and students alike attribute successes and failure alike more to training received and effort expended than to ability. For instance, many Americans blame their failure to draw a credible representation of an object on lack of ability explaining, “I am no good at drawing.” In Chinese and Japanese cultures, the response to a person who had difficulty drawing would be, “Isn’t it a shame that no one taught you how to draw.” (Bamburg, 1994).

This board teaches me so much AND gives me inspiration to exercise that muscle and try shots I never would have otherwise and most of all, to keep looking at things in new ways. Before I kept with the standard shots and would give up when they didn't work. Now I just try and try again until either I like it or find a better way to do it!

Interesting thread :surfweb:
 
Look at the scene, move around, decide what you want in (and out of) the image, what perspective you want, *then* choose the lens that suits your vision of the final image.

It sure takes longer and isn't always easy at WDW when we are running through the parks, but it almost always gives a better image.
I agree. That's a huge part of the appeal of a DSLR - the ability to change lenses. No one lens can do everything, and the more one tries, the more compromises it has to make (and it either will be worse in quality or higher in cost!) I don't understand the idea of taking a DSLR and trying to get one lens that you never need to change. (Well, I do, but I think it's kind of a waste. But then again, you won't get the dust on the sensor like I did! ;) )

Out of the six lenses that I brought, the only one I'd leave behind in the future would be the mammoth 400mm - and I'd have used the 28mm 2.8 a lot more if it was autofocus (I love manual focus but unfortunately you really don't have the time for it at WDW most of the time!)

With the belt-mounted lens pouch, it was trivial to keep two lenses ready at any given time. Occasionally I'd have the film camera around my neck, too, and would flip lenses between the cameras as the need arose.
 
zooms tend to make us very lazy. what generally happens is we use the zoom to fit the scene, unstead of using our feet to walk to a spot to compose the scene effectively.

digital photography is great in that it affords us the ability to try many different things - take tons of pictures, sometimes without thought. i still spend quite a bit of time shooting film (at least a roll a week, or more). one, because i love developing b&w at home ( i occasionally develop colour, but it's so much more sensitive to messing up temperature and it's far more expensive.) what shooting film does do is it makes you think 'what am i shooting?', and 'why am i shooting it?'. i can get about 190 raw images @ iso 200 on the 2 gig cards i generally shoot with on my dslr, and i carry quite a few cards with me. on the otherhand, i can shoot 36 shots on my 35 mm cameras, 10 shots on my Mamiya, or 12 shots on the Holga.

i've said it a few times here - one of the best things to help with composition is to take the camera's capabilities out of the equation. force yourself to think about the picture. go out one saturday and only use a prime (or only use your zoom lens at one focal length). to help you think about the shot more, stick with one iso - it can be 100, 200, 400 (and if you're eager, only use one shutter speed, like 1/125 so you can think about motion).

if you're really keen, dig out the old film p&s or get yourself a holga or diana!

imho, you will definitely develop an eye with experience. you can look at lots of other people's galleries and use various things to inspire some of your work. but you'll notice that you adopt some of these elements, and some you won't/can't. more importantly, you'll develop your own style - and you will end up refining this over time.
 
One thing that I have found is helping me, it to understand what the camera will do. And being able to anticipate the results.

For example. I can shoot a picture at 200mm and f2.8 iso200 1/250 In keeping these settings the same, the picture will be very different if the subject is 15 feet away or if the subject is 200 feet away. This is not concidering the maginfication so much as how the distance effects the DOF.

These are the types of things that I have been learning recently and it is making me take better pictures I believe.
 
I must say, I love playing with the f/stop settings. I can really get some different shots, especially of moving water.
 
imho, you will definitely develop an eye with experience. you can look at lots of other people's galleries and use various things to inspire some of your work. but you'll notice that you adopt some of these elements, and some you won't/can't. more importantly, you'll develop your own style - and you will end up refining this over time.

Well said. I completely agree! :thumbsup2
 
imho, you will definitely develop an eye with experience. you can look at lots of other people's galleries and use various things to inspire some of your work. but you'll notice that you adopt some of these elements, and some you won't/can't. more importantly, you'll develop your own style - and you will end up refining this over time.

i agree with this also..and really since it' s a form of self expression, imo unless your lively hood depends on it then you might need to adjustif your ideas are really off the wall but if it makes you happy that's the point really imo even if it doesn't fit rule 4..you don't want to look like everybody else's stuff anyway

i also agree with i think bob q a few posts back...he mentioned taking a couple photos to get the excitement out...that is me...i see something i want to take and snap snap snap then wish "why didn't i" later...weird cause i have a background in art and sometimes use it to apply it to composition in photos, sometimes don't:rolleyes: . yesterday i went out to take some shots and made myself think about dof, compostion etc..not the fastest thing with granddaughter and hubby in car yelling "hurry up" but i can ignore them pretty well... hey they wanted to come:rotfl:.

and along with the "seeing eye"...a good cheat..er i mean training exercise... i read about and it does work is if you set (the canon at least) to b&w parameter then shoot in raw you get the b&w in the LCD and still have the color in the raw file...nifty imho to help "see" it in B&W
 





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