BWV - Is it worth buying now?

[havoc315]

Are you assuming studios only then? Even then the hotel side rooms are not the same as a studio.

You can also book Villas with cash, but they are admittedly less available.
Obviously, if you want larger than studios, it's even more points. But the cash value is actually much lower than the point value. Booking 1 BRs with cash is actually going to work out much cheaper than booking BWV 1 BRs with points.

Hotel rooms are not the same as studios -- In most cases, they are much better than studios. The regular rooms come with daily house keeping. BWI rooms are 371 sf, BWV studios are only 359 sf. So if you love having the kitchenette, then BWV may be preferable. But larger size and daily housekeeping is quite nice on the BWI side.

And as I said, you can always rent points for BWV -- works out much cheaper than buying as of 2022.

 

[hglenn]

We just bought our first DVC contract at BWV. I'm a spreadsheet nerd and love to score a great deal. I had about 50 different scenarios on my spreadsheet that averaged out the total cost of ownership including fees over the life of the contract. At no point did BWV even come close to being a top 5 value... just couldn't get there with the years remaining...yet, we still bought BWV. There are two decision makers for DVC - your heart and your head... as with any luxury purchase, you just have to make a decision and go with it.

 

[Madame]

You can also book Villas with cash, but they are admittedly less available.
Obviously, if you want larger than studios, it's even more points. But the cash value is actually much lower than the point value. Booking 1 BRs with cash is actually going to work out much cheaper than booking BWV 1 BRs with points.

Hotel rooms are not the same as studios -- In most cases, they are much better than studios. The regular rooms come with daily house keeping. BWI rooms are 371 sf, BWV studios are only 359 sf. So if you love having the kitchenette, then BWV may be preferable. But larger size and daily housekeeping is quite nice on the BWI side.

And as I said, you can always rent points for BWV -- works out much cheaper than buying as of 2022.

The math doesn’t work as favourably though if it’s a larger room. An hotel room being superior to a studio unit is a subjective evaluation. You can rent but it’s getting harder to find bcv & bwv points for popular (low point seasons) in studios. The “just rent” argument doesn’t hold water, that’s why many renters buy in; so they can actually get what they want, when they want (with certain value room exceptions of course).

 

[BeachClub2014]

Can we all agree that it's a luxury purchase whether you buy points, rent points, or pay cash for the villa? If so, then the approach an individual chooses is the one they feel has the most value for them.

Never in a million years would I be trusting enough to send a complete stranger my money in hopes they don't swindle me out of my dough. I get that people do so successfully every day, but not for me, thanks. I also wouldn't want to have to worry about current rack rates, potential discounts, and availability to pay cash to DVC for the accommodations for the next 20-years. Again, no thanks. So for us, buying a reasonably priced resale contract was worth it to meet our needs.

It may cost a few hundred dollars more per year than renting, but it is definitely worth it.

 

[havoc315]

The math doesn’t work as favourably though if it’s a larger room. An hotel room being superior to a studio unit is a subjective evaluation. You can rent but it’s getting harder to find bcv & bwv points for popular (low point seasons) in studios. The “just rent” argument doesn’t hold water, that’s why many renters buy in; so they can actually get what they want, when they want (with certain value room exceptions of course).

As with buying, you can (almost) always find rental availability at 11 months, at least if you're willing to pay a broker $21 per point. And as demonstrated, you still save money renting at $21.
You can also almost always get a cash room with MORE flexibility and certainty than points.

Hotel room vs studio is a subjective choice.. But pretty fair to say they are very similar in practicality. Yes, if you absolutely must have that kitchenette, then you would need to book Villas (either owning points, renting points, for booking villas with cash) and if you can live without the kitchenette, then you can add the option of the Inn.

For larger rooms, the math works out completely in favor of cash rooms.

The rack rate for a 1 bedroom Boardwalk view is $5663 for a week in the summer.
To get the 1 bedroom boardwalk view with points, you would need 255 points.
Good luck getting exactly a 255 point contract.... so let's assume you buy a 300 point contract. But I'll price if you got lucky and exact 255, as well as 300 points.

255 points -- $38,760, $40,000 with closing.. 300 points -- $45,600., $47,000 with closing. But in terms of real annual cost:
255: $2800 per year. 300 points: $3300 per year.
But add dues:
at 255 points: $4860 per year. At 300 points, $5724 per year.

So, booking a 1 bedroom Boardwalk view villa as a cash room through Disney: $5663
Owning 300 points in order to book that 1 week per year: $5724 (slightly MORE expensive than booking a cash rack rate room)
Finding the perfect 255 point contract: $4860 (14% savings versus a cash room)
Renting 255 points at $16-$21 per point: $4080 - $5355.

So, if you want larger units -- If you find the PERFECT contract, at exactly the points you're going to use, then it's slightly cheaper than cash, and in a similar ball park as renting the points.
If you can't find the perfect contract.... then renting points and cash rooms are significantly cheaper than owning DVC at Boardwalk.

As I said, it's really really hard to financially rationalize buying BWV for the first time in 2022. Really, it's even worse than I calculated. My assumptions were based on 19 years.. but with ROFR waiting, you probably wouldn't get more than 18 years at this point.

Now if someone wants to go buy on emotion, go for it. And the, "well.... I'm nervous that if I don't own the points, I might not be able to get exactly the rental or cash room that I want"... that's emotion, not financial.

Financially, it's just really difficult to rationalize buying new contracts for most of the 2042 resorts right now. (Beach Club is actually the worst).

 

[Madame]

As with buying, you can (almost) always find rental availability at 11 months, at least if you're willing to pay a broker $21 per point. And as demonstrated, you still save money renting at $21.
You can also almost always get a cash room with MORE flexibility and certainty than points.

Hotel room vs studio is a subjective choice.. But pretty fair to say they are very similar in practicality. Yes, if you absolutely must have that kitchenette, then you would need to book Villas (either owning points, renting points, for booking villas with cash) and if you can live without the kitchenette, then you can add the option of the Inn.

For larger rooms, the math works out completely in favor of cash rooms.

The rack rate for a 1 bedroom Boardwalk view is $5663 for a week in the summer.
To get the 1 bedroom boardwalk view with points, you would need 255 points.
Good luck getting exactly a 255 point contract.... so let's assume you buy a 300 point contract. But I'll price if you got lucky and exact 255, as well as 300 points.

255 points -- $38,760, $40,000 with closing.. 300 points -- $45,600., $47,000 with closing. But in terms of real annual cost:
255: $2800 per year. 300 points: $3300 per year.
But add dues:
at 255 points: $4860 per year. At 300 points, $5724 per year.

So, booking a 1 bedroom Boardwalk view villa as a cash room through Disney: $5663
Owning 300 points in order to book that 1 week per year: $5724 (slightly MORE expensive than booking a cash rack rate room)
Finding the perfect 255 point contract: $4860 (14% savings versus a cash room)
Renting 255 points at $16-$21 per point: $4080 - $5355.

So, if you want larger units -- If you find the PERFECT contract, at exactly the points you're going to use, then it's slightly cheaper than cash, and in a similar ball park as renting the points.
If you can't find the perfect contract.... then renting points and cash rooms are significantly cheaper than owning DVC at Boardwalk.

As I said, it's really really hard to financially rationalize buying BWV for the first time in 2022. Really, it's even worse than I calculated. My assumptions were based on 19 years.. but with ROFR waiting, you probably wouldn't get more than 18 years at this point.

Now if someone wants to go buy on emotion, go for it. And the, "well.... I'm nervous that if I don't own the points, I might not be able to get exactly the rental or cash room that I want"... that's emotion, not financial.

Financially, it's just really difficult to rationalize buying new contracts for most of the 2042 resorts right now. (Beach Club is actually the worst).

Brokers are desperate for bcv/bwv/poly points. Maybe you’ve been lucky renting? You’re more apt to find in demand points at 11 months via private rental, not a broker. A 1 bd is never a good value, cash or points. Are you using $157 per point for that big of a contract? I wouldn’t pay that. I had a peek and found several on 1 site for $145 but I wouldn’t pay that either - especially since it’s a buyers market.

Using summer is not really useful. BCV from Sept - Jan you can’t even get a cash studio. So, caveat. If you want to stay from fall til end of spring break at either bwv or bcv your life will be substantially less frustrating if you own there. That’s worth something as well (even if the worth is subjective).

 

[RoseGold]

Can we all agree that it's a luxury purchase whether you buy points, rent points, or pay cash for the villa? If so, then the approach an individual chooses is the one they feel has the most value for them.

Yes, I have grown to see the value of the Swolphin cancelable reservation. DVC has a real lack of flexibility that I think I thought would be fun to game. Maybe paying a little more for flexibility would be better.

 

[havoc315]

Yes, I have grown to see the value of the Swolphin cancelable reservation. DVC has a real lack of flexibility that I think I thought would be fun to game. Maybe paying a little more for flexibility would be better.

This is critical. The value is going to be different for each person.
But the loss of flexibility with DVC ownership is an intangible cost of ownership.

That's why, for me, DVC is only financially rational if there is a pretty significant discount compared to cash rooms. You can realize that discount in a long contract properly priced.
But I'm not going to give up that flexibility unless I'm getting a discount. For the 2042 resorts, any discount is nominal. I'd much rather have flexibility than a 3% discount.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

The other issue with renting is that you are unlikely to find someone who is willing to put in the legwork for you to try to snag that perfect 11m reservation exactly at 8am. If we ever needed more points I would be willing to pay for a transfer but I'd rather (have my mom) be in charge of our own destiny.

 

[peabody58]

Those 50 [BWV] points today got me 5 nights in a value studio next May and I cannot be more excited. The rack rate was over $3k for those same 5 nights when I priced it out after I booked.

So you're the one who got the villa 1 second before me!! Although I'm wait-listed for a Standard Studio, we went ahead and locked in a Boardwalk view as we've never stayed in that category. Still a bargain compared to other resorts.

We added on to BWV Direct (100 pts, Sept UY - an elusive resale unicorn) last fall because we have fallen in love with the resort and the access to parks. We will only use our BWV points at BWV. Plus the point chart is one of the best on site. We were fortunate to time the market well and optimized our gains to fund the purchase.

The 2042 end date doesn't bother us as much as the current lack of APs. We'll be 84 young when BWV expires and we'll still have our BLT contract for our Disney fix.

If you can afford the buy-in cost and yearly MF's, then buy what will make you happy. Life is too short to nickle and dime everything. Our stress level is a lot lower now that I know we can book BWV at 11 months. We'll use our BLT points for sleeping around at 7 months.

 

[sethschroeder]

I am just not sure if the value is great for purchase or if we are better off aiming for renting points.

Renting will always be harder but you don't have the contract either to worry about.

In the end if BWV had a longer contract length it would be more expensive. Yes not an amazing deal but still in line at this point.

 

[DVCsloth]

You can also book Villas with cash, but they are admittedly less available.
Obviously, if you want larger than studios, it's even more points. But the cash value is actually much lower than the point value. Booking 1 BRs with cash is actually going to work out much cheaper than booking BWV 1 BRs with points.

Hotel rooms are not the same as studios -- In most cases, they are much better than studios. The regular rooms come with daily house keeping. BWI rooms are 371 sf, BWV studios are only 359 sf. So if you love having the kitchenette, then BWV may be preferable. But larger size and daily housekeeping is quite nice on the BWI side.

And as I said, you can always rent points for BWV -- works out much cheaper than buying as of 2022.

I think Boardwalk 1BR would rent for over $700 per night plus taxes and parking if driving. So probably closer to $800, I think you would still come out ahead buying there if you get a good price. Wouldn't that be close to $5,000 for the week? I personally don't need housekeeping every day, I keep our room clean as we go, I still tip housekeeping well when we check out and they have an easy turn around for the next guest.

 

[havoc315]

I think Boardwalk 1BR would rent for over $700 per night plus taxes and parking if driving. So probably closer to $800, I think you would still come out ahead buying there if you get a good price. Wouldn't that be close to $5,000 for the week? I personally don't need housekeeping every day, I keep our room clean as we go, I still tip housekeeping well when we check out and they have an easy turn around for the next guest.

Cash rack rate around $800 per night, up to $850 per night with taxes
Renting points — $650 to $750 per night.
Buying points- comes out to about $705 per night.

So buying the points is right in the same realm as renting the points slightly cheaper than rack rate.

 

[DVCsloth]

Cash rack rate around $800 per night, up to $850 per night with taxes
Renting points — $650 to $750 per night.
Buying points- comes out to about $705 per night.

So buying the points is right in the same realm as renting the points slightly cheaper than rack rate.

Probably, I was really looking renting from Disney with a Florida resident discount. Not always available for the times you may want. If you bought into BWV in the beginning you would be getting the room a lot cheaper. Buying now its not as good of a deal obviously.

 

[WDWBW09]

For my wife and I it has been several years since we have stayed on property. Although we have stayed in Celebration just simply not the same feeling as being on property. We have several times dabbled in DVC. Now we are part of DVC through resale recently. Just booked our first trip and being in our 50's with 20 years makes sense to be a part of it for us and our family. Believe this is situational for all considering. Do we wish we would have bought in earlier...yes...but it just wasn't the right time until now.

 

[BamaGuy44]

For my wife and I it has been several years since we have stayed on property. Although we have stayed in Celebration just simply not the same feeling as being on property. We have several times dabbled in DVC. Now we are part of DVC through resale recently. Just booked our first trip and being in our 50's with 20 years makes sense to be a part of it for us and our family. Believe this is situational for all considering. Do we wish we would have bought in earlier...yes...but it just wasn't the right time until now.

We bought in our 50s too. Not BWV but I’m considering adding it. We love the location, the Swan was our go to for years before we bought DVC. I’m cool with a small contract there and just running out the clock.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Something to keep in mind is that, with DVC, you can still have some value built in because the contracts will be worth something in the resale market, should you decide to sell.

Having said that, I'm in the camp that the value of BWV and BCV is just too low to justify the expense and hassle. I do like the resorts and have stayed there many times, just not with home resort booking priority. I have a week in a BWV studio coming up this July.

What I would do in OP's situation is purchase elsewhere and try to use those points at BWV. If you can't get the dates you wanted in a given year at 7 months, you can rent out the points and use that money to stay on the BWI cash side. Better yet, use the rental money to buy Disney Gift Cards at a discount and use them to pay for the cash booking.

 

[MFMont]

Right now is not a bad time however i believe things will only get better from here over the next few months. It appears that Disney has slowed on this property at present. They were buying heavy up until about a month ago. I needed points so I bout at $150pp loaded contract. I already see contracts passing ROFR at $140pp. With the economy doing what it is doing, I would wait a few months as I would bet it will get down another 10+%.

 

[DVCanadian]

If you love Boardwalk buy there.

I see a few comments that the “value” isn’t there for 2042 contracts.
In other threads owners are reporting “breaking even” after 7 years.
So if you buy boardwalk and “break even” after 7 years, you get 12 years of discounted lodging at a resort you love. I guess you could get more discounts at resorts you don’t love but is that value?
Depending on your age and the age of any kids, 2042 might be a good time to stop visiting Disney…good luck!

 

[WB1971]

What is missing in the analysis is that cash rack rates will continue to escalate. Sure, dues will, but half of the cost of ownership- your purchase price is fixed at 2022 dollar level. If cash rates and dues escalate at the same rate your savings owning grows dramatically towards 2042. I’ve never been a fan of 2042 expirations but given what cash prices are doing they still may make economic sense.