BWV - Is it worth buying now?

[Sandisw]

You're right, buying a resort one doesn't like is a big waste of money. But I think BWV and BCV have very high prices, to the point that the savings of owning might not be enought to justify a purchase.
I passed on BWV 10 years ago because I wanted a longer contract. It confounds me that BCV and BWV still have such a high price with less than 20 years left.

All true. I just don’t think someone should buy a different one if one stands out

I too am surprised these are still so high and I traded BWV for RIV 3 years ago in part due to expiration.

But, if one wants to be DVC, then buy what you love. I know some say just rent but that requires a lot of risk, much different than owning.

 

[CarolMN]

If you are stuck staying where you really don't want to be, any savings will soon be forgotten. DVC is a luxury purchase, and if you can afford it, don't settle. Listen to your heart.

 

[Madame]

All true. I just don’t think someone should buy a different one if one stands out

I too am surprised these are still so high and I traded BWV for RIV 3 years ago in part due to expiration.

But, if one wants to be DVC, then buy what you love. I know some say just rent but that requires a lot of risk, much different than owning.

I agree. Renting also requires points be available. As time goes on, more & more owners will have bought into the 2042 resorts with the sole intention of using their points only at their HR.

Rental prices will also rise more rapidly for BCV/BWV studios to reflect the scarcity (especially during popular - aka low point - seasons).

 

[bobbiwoz]

BWV was our first purchase in 2003, because that’s what they were selling direct, and it was a very good offer. Then we bought VWL because it is our heart’s favorite. We do own others. Now we are 19 years older and we need 2 ECV’s, and sadly, if we downsize points, it will be the VWL that we sell. It’s hard to transfer to parks with two ECV on busses.

So, 19 years is a long time, and if you want BWV, my vote is to get it.

 

[LilyJC]

Having just lost our BLT through ROFR, we are doing some soul-searching and we realize that we truly LOVE Boardwalk, and that is where we want to stay.

I've been spending all day crunching numbers, and with dues and such, I am just not sure if the value is great for purchase or if we are better off aiming for renting points.

We are looking around the 150-200 point range, and maybe like $145-$155 dollar per point range.
I just am not sure if I am factoring in everything - but the dues at $8.08 per point add another $28k or so on - given how short the contract is (compared to others) I am just not seeing huge savings.

And please know, there is an emotional level at play here as well. We love this resort and it's where we stay almost every trip.

Thanks in advance for those additional considerations we can add to our mental circus.

We’ve always purchased the resorts we want to stay at. For us in the Epcot area it was BCV. We’re on the younger side, but as has already been stated, 20 years is a loooong time to not be happy with your home resort. It’s a great feeling to not have to bother with the 7 month window switch (and have absolutely no temptation to do so either)! If you love BWV, go for it! Oh, and I happened to see a 150 point contract listed at $130/point this morning. No clue what’s been going on with ROFR, but that seems like a deal!

 

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

So many good points!! THANK YOU!!!

 

[Straulin]

We’ve always purchased the resorts we want to stay at. For us in the Epcot area it was BCV. We’re on the younger side, but as has already been stated, 20 years is a loooong time to not be happy with your home resort. It’s a great feeling to not have to bother with the 7 month window switch (and have absolutely no temptation to do so either)! If you love BWV, go for it! Oh, and I happened to see a 150 point contract listed at $130/point this morning. No clue what’s been going on with ROFR, but that seems like a deal!

Last month the BCV and BWV ROFR bloodbath ended and things were getting through pretty well.

 

[DduzDis]

We have a Boardwalk View booked for our trip next March. That would likely not happen at 7 months (and switched from a Standard View which also would not likely have been available at 7 months). It will be our first time and I hope we love it as much as we anticipate.

On the emotional purchase aspect, I bought my Poly contract direct at a ridiculous premium over resale (I already have member benefits so could have gone resale from that perspective) mostly because I didn't see any contracts with my UY and I didn't have the patience to wait. Economical? Nope. Happy? Absolutely!

 

[Huskerpaul]

Having just lost our BLT through ROFR, we are doing some soul-searching and we realize that we truly LOVE Boardwalk, and that is where we want to stay.

I've been spending all day crunching numbers, and with dues and such, I am just not sure if the value is great for purchase or if we are better off aiming for renting points.

We are looking around the 150-200 point range, and maybe like $145-$155 dollar per point range.
I just am not sure if I am factoring in everything - but the dues at $8.08 per point add another $28k or so on - given how short the contract is (compared to others) I am just not seeing huge savings.

And please know, there is an emotional level at play here as well. We love this resort and it's where we stay almost every trip.

Thanks in advance for those additional considerations we can add to our mental circus.

We just finished getting 210 BWL at $134 per point. I think there are some deals out there if you have the patience for the chase. As other have said 20 years is a long time, especially when you consider a DVC is held for an average of something like 10 years or so.

 

[RoseGold]

You're right, buying a resort one doesn't like is a big waste of money

I have a lot of SSR, and I've never stayed there.

 

[Sandisw]

I have a lot of SSR, and I've never stayed there.

It can work but depending on what and when people travel it may not. It all depends on where you want to use those SSR points. Using them at AKV, for example, is going to be a lot easier than using them at 7 months for BWV during Food and Wine, or the holidays.

I still contend that if you have a favorite resort, and want to stay there, then SAP elsewhere may not be the best. I just sold my SSR to buy more VGF because I want to stay at VGF...I don't want to chance anymore being lucky at 7 months with my SSR points to get those 1 bedrooms.

 

[Chuckdlc]

You may all think I'm crazy but I think part of your thought process with "buy where you want to stay" has to involve how often you are at a computer during the day. As someone who has rented and done a transfer (into a relative's account who then let me have access to secure my own reservation), I have been able to get the days I wanted in the locations I wanted - in almost every instance. That said, I am by a computer constantly and also get a certain thrill out of constantly checking for the rooms I want.

I just bought (technically the closing is imminent) 190 Vero points because I know how far I can manage to make those points go and what I need to do to secure the reservations I want. If I didn't have the time or the patience though, I definitely would've bought where I intended to stay most often. I hope that makes some sense.

 

[Her Dotness]

You may all think I'm crazy but I think part of your thought process with "buy where you want to stay" has to involve how often you are at a computer during the day.

Great, if a person doesn't mind:
A--Staying wherever
B--Is on their computer more than most probably are

More of us, I suspect, have 1-2 favorite resorts and don't want to stay wherever-of-the-moment. We'd rather a sure thing at 11 months that we know we like.

Homebodies, I suppose, rather than vagabonds like you seem to be.

I just bought (technically the closing is imminent) 190 Vero points because I know how far I can manage to make those points go and what I need to do to secure the reservations I want. If I didn't have the time or the patience though, I definitely would've bought where I intended to stay most often. I hope that makes some sense.

Wow! <gulp> If you don't mind paying the highest dues of all the resorts, more power to you.

On the other hand, after an ill-advised (for us) 150 OKW contract was ROFRd, we realized we'd rather buy a VGF resale to add to our 125 VGF points. Easy calculation how much more dues would be and a total we were okay with.

And then, having realized the impact OKW's higher dues would have had, we shopped for a 50-pointer with dues close to VGF's for SAP points, bought BWV.

Just hadn't thought through adequately, until the OKW one got ROFRd, what the impact of higher dues would be for us. Sat down and fiddled around until dues and someplace we could stand to stay if nothing appealed at 7 months were agreeable.

So, yeah, like marriage, buying DVC involves more thought and calculation beyond "twoo wuv." Sometimes, it takes a "broken engagement" (of sorts) to make you see what will be a more workable relationship.

Not that we didn't love you, OKW, but we love VGF lots more.

 

[zavandor]

I have a lot of SSR, and I've never stayed there.

I bought SSR too, as sleep around points because I usually can travel during slow seasons, but I have stated there twice, marathon week end and early December. I would have never bought SSR if I disliked it, because there might be times when you cannot switch at 7 months.

 

[Chuckdlc]

Great, if a person doesn't mind:
A--Staying wherever
B--Is on their computer more than most probably are

More of us, I suspect, have 1-2 favorite resorts and don't want to stay wherever-of-the-moment. We'd rather a sure thing at 11 months that we know we like.

Homebodies, I suppose, rather than vagabonds like you seem to be.

Wow! <gulp> If you don't mind paying the highest dues of all the resorts, more power to you.

As for the first part of that - there is no "staying wherever" involved. That was the entire point of my post, I guess it was lost. I have always been able to get the rooms I wanted when using transferred points and <gulp> patience. It's usually either BLT or Poly or a divided stay. If I were being forced into "staying wherever", I would have done something different.

As for the second part, I know what I signed up for with regard to the dues. I wanted a lot of points and I got them - mainly because this was my first contract so I wanted to start with plenty and then adapt as needed. I took into consideration the fact that the cost of renting points 2 years ago was about 17/18 (I know, I rented) and there are some posts now asking 22/pt. My point is that I can always buy a different contract to use for myself and either transfer or rent out some of these points (with the high dues) and still have everything offset fine.

 

[Her Dotness]

As for the first part of that - there is no "staying wherever" involved. That was the entire point of my post, I guess it was lost. I have always been able to get the rooms I wanted when using transferred points and <gulp> patience. It's usually either BLT or Poly or a divided stay. If I were being forced into "staying wherever", I would have done something different.

Seems we have different views of "staying wherever." No offense meant.

Perhaps I articulated poorly that I feel most DVCers prefer a "home base."

That may be where they love and know they'll prefer to stay or simply an 11-month placeholder they can modify if something appealing turns up at 7 months for a few nights or longer.

Beyond that, you and we probably have such different attitudes toward booking--when and where--that we're unlikely to find the other's style at all appealing.

For us, not only do we prefer VGF over any others, but we must travel based on when DH is able to get vacation. I expect that's the case for more DVCers than otherwise.

We simply haven't the flexibility you appear to enjoy.

 

[havoc315]

While I completely agree with "buy where you want to stay" -- That assumes you are getting value from buying. It's not like owning DVC is the only way to stay in the resort. So if buying doesn't give you value in the place where you want to stay.... then go stay without buying.

And unless you can really maximize your BWV points, it may indeed make more sense to stay without buying. You can rent points, you can book cash rooms.

For example, a preferred studio at BWV for the summer is 132 points for a week. At a median price of $152 per point, that's $20,064. But wait.... you probably won't find an exact 132 point resale contract. So let's say you need to buy 150 points to get your 1 week in a preferred studio -- $22,800 --- Call it $24,000 with closing costs.
That's the equivalent of paying $1675 per year. ($24,000 up front is more than $1263 per year because you're losing the the interest on the principal, assuming approximately 3% rate of return, paying $24,000 up front for 19 years is the equivalent of paying $1675 per year).
Annual dues of $8.08 per point, for 150 points -- $1,212 ---
So the cost of BWV ownership is $2,887 per year.

Renting just the points you need ... 132 points, at between $16 and $21 per point -- $2112 to $2,772.
So even paying $21 per point -- Renting is $100 per year cheaper than owning. If you can get the points for $16, then you are saving over $700 per year by NOT owning.

Ahh.. but renting is "risky." Can be harder to not be in control of the reservation.
Well... for a week this summer with available discounts, can get a resort room at Boardwalk Inn for $3256. Yes, that's more than owning. But for a $369 extra -- You get a reservation safer than buying or renting points. Ability to get a full refund, unlike owning where you you may end up with points in holding, or run out of time to use the points.
Yes, if you maximize your points -- That gives you an 11% savings from owning vs cash rooms.
But more expensive than renting.

For me, if I'm going to buy DVC, with all the inconveniences of pre-paying, having to book 11 months in advance, not having full housekeeping, etc... then I want more than an 11% savings over cash rooms.
And I definitely want buying to be cheaper than renting points.

At this juncture, it's just hard to see the value proposition in buying BWV.
Yes -- Buy where you want to stay. But you don't have to buy. You can stay where you want to stay.. without buying.

 

[havoc315]

As for the first part of that - there is no "staying wherever" involved. That was the entire point of my post, I guess it was lost. I have always been able to get the rooms I wanted when using transferred points and <gulp> patience. It's usually either BLT or Poly or a divided stay. If I were being forced into "staying wherever", I would have done something different.

So with patience, you'd be able to get a standard studio at BLT for Thanksgiving week, every year?
Or with patience.. you can get a room in one of your top choices, with some flexibility in room type, dates, etc?
You just said it's usually either BLT or poly OR split stay. Split stay because you wanted a split stay?
If I want to stay March 10-13 at Poly standard studio and March 13-17 at BLT theme park view studio, I can get that with patience? Or, it became a split stay for you because you could NOT get a single complete stay in your 1st choice resort?

There is a big difference. While you claim you can get what you want with patience, it sounds like you have some footnotes there.... You can get something close to what you want with some flexibility and patience, as opposed to getting the exact room type you want, at the exact dates you want, in the exact resort that you want.

Different people have different flexibility. For some, it's psychological, a level of comfort from certainty. For others, flexibility is limited by real world issues -- a teacher whose travel schedule has to conform to certain dates, for example.

The more flexibility you have, the more you can tolerate "buy wherever" and use those points elsewhere. The less flexibility you have, it really isn't so easy to "buy wherever" without significant compromise.

 

[Madame]

While I completely agree with "buy where you want to stay" -- That assumes you are getting value from buying. It's not like owning DVC is the only way to stay in the resort. So if buying doesn't give you value in the place where you want to stay.... then go stay without buying.

And unless you can really maximize your BWV points, it may indeed make more sense to stay without buying. You can rent points, you can book cash rooms.

For example, a preferred studio at BWV for the summer is 132 points for a week. At a median price of $152 per point, that's $20,064. But wait.... you probably won't find an exact 132 point resale contract. So let's say you need to buy 150 points to get your 1 week in a preferred studio -- $22,800 --- Call it $24,000 with closing costs.
That's the equivalent of paying $1675 per year. ($24,000 up front is more than $1263 per year because you're losing the the interest on the principal, assuming approximately 3% rate of return, paying $24,000 up front for 19 years is the equivalent of paying $1675 per year).
Annual dues of $8.08 per point, for 150 points -- $1,212 ---
So the cost of BWV ownership is $2,887 per year.

Renting just the points you need ... 132 points, at between $16 and $21 per point -- $2112 to $2,772.
So even paying $21 per point -- Renting is $100 per year cheaper than owning. If you can get the points for $16, then you are saving over $700 per year by NOT owning.

Ahh.. but renting is "risky." Can be harder to not be in control of the reservation.
Well... for a week this summer with available discounts, can get a resort room at Boardwalk Inn for $3256. Yes, that's more than owning. But for a $369 extra -- You get a reservation safer than buying or renting points. Ability to get a full refund, unlike owning where you you may end up with points in holding, or run out of time to use the points.
Yes, if you maximize your points -- That gives you an 11% savings from owning vs cash rooms.
But more expensive than renting.

For me, if I'm going to buy DVC, with all the inconveniences of pre-paying, having to book 11 months in advance, not having full housekeeping, etc... then I want more than an 11% savings over cash rooms.
And I definitely want buying to be cheaper than renting points.

At this juncture, it's just hard to see the value proposition in buying BWV.
Yes -- Buy where you want to stay. But you don't have to buy. You can stay where you want to stay.. without buying.

Are you assuming studios only then? Even then the hotel side rooms are not the same as a studio.

 

[Chuckdlc]

So with patience, you'd be able to get a standard studio at BLT for Thanksgiving week, every year?
Or with patience.. you can get a room in one of your top choices, with some flexibility in room type, dates, etc?
You just said it's usually either BLT or poly OR split stay. Split stay because you wanted a split stay?
If I want to stay March 10-13 at Poly standard studio and March 13-17 at BLT theme park view studio, I can get that with patience? Or, it became a split stay for you because you could NOT get a single complete stay in your 1st choice resort?

There is a big difference. While you claim you can get what you want with patience, it sounds like you have some footnotes there.... You can get something close to what you want with some flexibility and patience, as opposed to getting the exact room type you want, at the exact dates you want, in the exact resort that you want.

Different people have different flexibility. For some, it's psychological, a level of comfort from certainty. For others, flexibility is limited by real world issues -- a teacher whose travel schedule has to conform to certain dates, for example.

The more flexibility you have, the more you can tolerate "buy wherever" and use those points elsewhere. The less flexibility you have, it really isn't so easy to "buy wherever" without significant compromise. I "claim" something is a bit off-putting as part of a casual discussion on the internet. There aren't any footnotes unless the fact that you may have to add one day at a time to your reservation and then connect them is a footnote. That's what I've done. For example, if I wanted 11/7-11/12, I would start logging in around 3 months ahead of time and see what was there. I'd take any of those days that was available in that moment and then add onto it from there over the next month or so.

My issue with the word claim aside, No - we never did or wanted to do Thanksgiving so I cannot speak to that.

Our flexibility is not so great either and we went at busy times - in fact it was ironic that you mentioned teachers. Pre-covid we went twice a year for "Jersey Week" which is during the NJ Teachers convention in November and is so busy that it actually has it's own name - yet I can tell you that I was able to get Lake view studios and one bedrooms at BLT or studios at the Poly each time that I tried. We didn't want a standard studio at BLT so I have no clue whether that would've been possible. We also went during Spring Break which several times involved our being at Disney on Easter. That is also a busy time.

I don't disagree with your statement that "Different people have different flexibility." This goes to the heart of what I was trying to express in my first response (which I now regret making because it just seems like it wasn't understood), asking if it is worth it to buy at BWV right now doesn't have any set formula and will have different considerations weighted differently for different people based on their flexibility (not only with scheduling as you note) but also in connection with their ability to check often for changes in availability.

As I said, I now regret my post because the sentiment basically was that no one is right and no one is wrong and there are many random things to take into account which will vary from person to person but it seems like everyone seems to think I'm wrong and presumes we were traveling during the second weeks of January and September so it was easy for us.