Buying Riviera Resale Yes, no, hell no?

[RoseGold]

The point friendly tower rooms are great for bookending a trip in a one bedroom.

Buying RIV for tower studios is a risky strategy, and that’s half-sold with no resale in play. There are so few and they go fast.

 

[havoc315]

When I went on the shiny, new RIV tour, it reminded me of any new-ish business hotel: gray on gray on non-offensive gray pattern.

If you had just shown me the lobby and a room, I wouldn't have been surprised if it were any Midwestern downtown Hyatt. That's not really an insult, Riviera is a nice property. But it isn't the Four Seasons. And it isn't the magic of the Jambo lobby or the Polynesian lobby. It seems DVC doesn't want to spend on things like that anymore.

I say this with all honesty..... I don't see the Riviera as "gray" in color. Maybe my eyes process color differently. But I see the exterior as off-white, and the interiors are a more brilliant white. The whole resort feels bright and airy. It's what my wife hates about the Jambo and Poly lobbies -- dark and cavernous. While the RIV has a bright, airy, casual elegance.
And it's odd that you would compare the rooms to a "Midwestern downtown Hyatt" -- BY FAR, the Riviera has the most elegant rooms of any on-site property at Disney, surpassing the Grand Floridian easily. (that might change with the GFV renovation).

GFV studio:



RIV studio:



GFV 1 bedroom:


Riviera 1 bedroom:


Maybe it's me... but it's the Grand Floridian rooms that look like they are from a cheap chain hotel, while the Riviera rooms actually exude some finesse.

 

[Dizzydizney]

Buying RIV for tower studios is a risky strategy, and that’s half-sold with no resale in play. There are so few and they go fast.

For August and October there are more Tower Rooms available than not available.... about the same as standard view studios at BWV. September has only a few days left.....but 10/13 points is such a bargain for a September. I bookend my Riviera one bedroom stays with Towers or standard views studios. Any desirable DVC resorts with less pointy views for studios will always be a challenge....BLT standard, GF standard, BWV standard, Copper Creek. Beach Club studios are still wide open for Aug/sept/Oct. I’m surprised I’m always reading on these boards that it’s hard to get in the fall.
Not sure what you meant by no resale in play. Except for the really large resale contracts and the couple of small ones that are overpriced, resales are being bought, but maybe I misunderstood what you meant.

 

[crisi]

I'm a direct owner of Riviera.
For a prospective re-sale buyer,my questions and advice would be:
-- Is Riviera your favorite DVC property? If not, no reason to consider it, at pretty much any price.
Assuming Riviera is your favorite property:
-- Do you travel during high demand times of year? If so, availability is limited outside of your home resort anyway. There isn't much downside to the resale restrictions. You'd basically be stuck at your home resort regardless. So why not consider paying market price for your preferred resort.
--Even if Riviera is your favorite, by how much? Are there other resorts that you love just as much, and you'd want to do different resorts every year? Then again, Riviera probably isn't for you -- Though maybe for the right price, you'd be willing to sacrifice the ability to trade to other resorts. So, if BLT (for example) was $170 per point... Would you be willing to trade away the other resorts for a nice discount, down to $150 per point?
--Now, speaking for my own family -- Is your Riviera preference strong enough that you really don't think you're missing out if you can't really stay at the other resorts? If so, then go buy Riviera at market price.

Even that assumes that you have no interest in...and do not anticipate - future DVC resorts. Its likely they will have similar trade restrictions on resale, but resale for the next round of resorts will be able to trade between them. No guarantees - and I would probably recommend waiting and seeing - but my decision at 55 with little interest in MORE Disney than I currently have access to with my points is not necessarily the decision to be made by someone in their early 30s.

If the resale restriction on all future DVC resorts continues to be "you can't trade to anything" then you'd better really like Riveria.

 

[havoc315]

Even that assumes that you have no interest in...and do not anticipate - future DVC resorts. Its likely they will have similar trade restrictions on resale, but resale for the next round of resorts will be able to trade between them.

No.. that's not how it will work. If you buy resale of a future resort, it will be limited to just that resort. There isn't going to be a new set of DVC that is independent of the first set of DVC. For a myriad of reasons.

If you want to stay in future resorts -- Then don't buy resale, period. As no resale will let you stay in future resorts. You have to buy direct.

 

[RoseGold]

Not sure what you meant by no resale in play. Except for the really large resale contracts and the couple of small ones that are overpriced, resales are being bought, but maybe I misunderstood what you meant.

Riviera won’t be sold out for a long time, and not much resale has changed hands. Over the years, like any resort, people will sell and there will be more resale points. That didn’t matter in O14, the points are the same, but it will matter in Riviera, because they’re trapped like the servants in the beasts castle.

 

[crisi]

No.. that's not how it will work. If you buy resale of a future resort, it will be limited to just that resort. There isn't going to be a new set of DVC that is independent of the first set of DVC. For a myriad of reasons.

If you want to stay in future resorts -- Then don't buy resale, period. As no resale will let you stay in future resorts. You have to buy direct.

Do we know that for sure? Because that is really going to make DVC II worthless - even as a direct purchase - once 2042 comes along. As resales change hands, your ability to trade into resorts as a direct owner will diminish due to trade restrictions.

 

[RoseGold]

And it's odd that you would compare the rooms to a "Midwestern downtown Hyatt" -- BY FAR, the Riviera has the most elegant rooms of any on-site property at Disney, surpassing the Grand Floridian easily

That’s not really an insult. They’re nice hotels with the same color scheme and generic decor. Seriously, pick one and youll see a room that looks like a lot like that RIV Studio. I did think the mosaic work in the grand villa was stunning, but even that wasn’t screaming Disney.

I know there are plenty who don’t want over the top theming.

 

[RoseGold]

Do we know that for sure? Because that is really going to make DVC II worthless - even as a direct purchase - once 2042 comes along. As resales change hands, your ability to trade into resorts as a direct owner will diminish due to trade restrictions.

It’s too late to turn the ship around on Riviera, and I don’t see why they would on Disneyland tower. I guess DVC will have tough choices to make on the next property. I see the restrictions staying in place, they’re much better in the long run for Disney.

 

[Sandisw]

If the price were low enough, I think I'd lock myself into most of the WDW resorts. But RIV's chart is a dealbreaker for me. I don't see the appeal right now against the O14, which still has a lot of miles left on it and a lot of sweet spots if you get lucky.

If the price were low enough sure, but it would have to offset that chart, so I don't see that math happening.

Unless the charts people use are BLT LV, Poly and VGF as the other places they want to stay. Then the sting of RIV charts is a lot less. But, against the rest? Yeah, you do have to figure you are getting a night or two less at RIV...more if you end up with PV...over those early resorts. So, it does have to make sense against the places that you would stay instead.

 

[Sandisw]

Do we know that for sure? Because that is really going to make DVC II worthless - even as a direct purchase - once 2042 comes along. As resales change hands, your ability to trade into resorts as a direct owner will diminish due to trade restrictions.

It won't be a downfall for direct purchases, which I think was the original long term strategy when RIV came out, with DL tower and Reflections right around the corner. In 2042, when those resorts (assuming they do) become new resorts, then only those direct points bought since 2019 will have access to all. Resale will only be what is left of current L14. Eventually, all resale will be their own resort.

Most resorts turn over no more than 20% from original owners so 80% of the points will still be good for trades anywhere. Obviously, things could be changing with the new VGF strategy. If that is a hit, they may decide not to build new like Reflections and just convert more hotel at DVC shared resorts, and RIV and DLH stay the only ones with resale restrictions for a long time.

 

[Dizzydizney]

That didn’t matter in O14, the points are the same, but it will matter in Riviera, because they’re trapped like the servants in the beasts castle.

As I said previously, not a bad place to be stuck. I’m thinking this will be the way going forward with DVC. The pandemic and uncertainty didn’t help with direct sales at Riviera...and there were too many bargains to be had on resale across all DVC resorts.

Getting back to OPs question...how much would I be willing to pay. There is one 50 point resale on the board sponsors site for $175....and last I looked they were only accepting full price offers....there had been two identical listings...maybe same owner? I don’t know. One is under contract. $175 is too high for me for that amount of points. The larger 100 point contract for $150 is doable, but I’m not looking for a big contract. Already have 200 points. I wouldn’t mind having another 100 points, but don’t want to dish out that much money....I could easily sell some BLT points, but I need those points for extended family trips. And under no circumstances would I consider selling any BWV contract. If a 50 or 25 point contact would pop up for $150 I would strongly consider it, but suspect it would be snapped up quickly.

 

[havoc315]

Do we know that for sure? Because that is really going to make DVC II worthless - even as a direct purchase - once 2042 comes along. As resales change hands, your ability to trade into resorts as a direct owner will diminish due to trade restrictions.

There is no such thing as “DVCII”—there never will be.
there are no trade restrictions for direct owners. Only resale owners. The point is to discourage resale.

 

[DVCjj]

I wouldn't buy resale even though we definitely loved 3 stays at RR (yes, I call it RR) .

We love split stays and that would be impossible with RR points. Also too much pressure to be able to use the exact number of resale RR points at RR. Afraid Disney is going to screw up borrowing points as they are doing now.

 

[RoseGold]

As I said previously, not a bad place to be stuck. I’m thinking this will be the way going forward with DVC.

Resale buyers being stuck has never happened before, so we don’t know how it will impact booking patterns long term. Those buyers won’t be able to use their points elsewhere in the system.

 

[havoc315]

Resale buyers being stuck has never happened before, so we don’t know how it will impact booking patterns long term. Those buyers won’t be able to use their points elsewhere in the system.

And resale buyers elsewhere can’t use their points at Riv. So balances out. The main difference — there will be few cancellations and fewer new bookings right at that 7 month mark.

 

[DougEMG]

RIV resale prices would have to drop a lot to get me interested in buying there. I just don't have any need to own RIV as I can book there at 7 months if I wanted to. For the location I would prefer to stay at BWV (which I own) or at BCV (for the pool). When spending those amount of points I would rather be at the VGF. The two things I like are walking distance to parks and cheap point costs. So what I tend to do is book at my home resorts BWV and BLT and then maybe switch to something else at 7 months like BCV or VGF depending on what the wife and kid wants. The frugal person in me would prefer to stay at BWV and BLT and not switch.

If I was young though and didn't own any points and wanted an EPCOT/HS resort, I think buying RIV would make sense.

 

[havoc315]

That’s not really an insult. They’re nice hotels with the same color scheme and generic decor. Seriously, pick one and youll see a room that looks like a lot like that RIV Studio. I did think the mosaic work in the grand villa was stunning, but even that wasn’t screaming Disney.

If you're saying "Hyatt" only in the sense of "it's not screaming Disney theming" --- I'll both agree and disagree. It is not over the top fantasy theming. It's not screaming that it's a fake African safari or a fake Hawaiian resort. It takes gentle inspiration from the European Riviera, without actually trying to pretend to be a Euro-attraction. I think that subtlety is a good thing. But YMMV.

At the same time, the Riviera has the nicest art collection of any Disney resort, which totally screams Disney in a unique and refreshing way.

 

[gharter]

It’s too late to turn the ship around on Riviera, and I don’t see why they would on Disneyland tower. I guess DVC will have tough choices to make on the next property. I see the restrictions staying in place, they’re much better in the long run for Disney.

The Disneyland Tower definitely will have the restrictions, but it doesn't really matter unless they add more DVC. The GC doesn't have a lot of DVC rooms and they rarely are available 7 months currently. And I expect the new tower to sell quickly and very little available at 7 months.

 

[Brian Noble]

Do we know that for sure? Because that is really going to make DVC II worthless - even as a direct purchase - once 2042 comes along. As resales change hands, your ability to trade into resorts as a direct owner will diminish due to trade restrictions.

We don't know it for sure (there aren't any other new resorts even publicly acknowledged; VGF2 is part of O14) but I think it is very very likely that resales will be tied to the underlying resort for each new resort going forward. This has been the model for both Diamond (now owned by Hilton) and Marriott for years now. Both systems have mechanisms for requalifying points but both mechanisms require a substantial cash outlay for doing so: Diamond requires a new purchase (I think equal to the number of reqal'd points) and Marriott requires payment of a hefty per-point fee. There is no reason why DVC couldn't do the same.

Alternatively there's no reason why they'd have to.

I don't see why this makes direct purchases problematic after 2042 happens. Those physical plants are likely to be recycled into "new" resorts, and qualified direct purchases will have access to them, as they do now. It is true that each resale ties more points to a home resort, but that's probably not a big deal. Many many contracts will remain qualified by staying w/in the purchasing family, being recycled via ROFR, etc. etc.