Buying Riviera Resale Yes, no, hell no?

[crisi]

I like the real Riviera as well. Cannes is lovely, and the Four Seasons there is excellent.

 

[Brian Noble]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I've stayed several different Four Seasons hotels. I've stayed in a number of DVC resorts. I never thought to compare those experiences---they aren't trying to be the same thing---but in my experience the Four Seasons experience is significantly more luxurious with a higher level of service and care.

 

[crisi]

I've stayed several different Four Seasons hotels. I've stayed in a number of DVC resorts. I never thought to compare those experiences---they aren't trying to be the same thing---but in my experience the Four Seasons experience is significantly more luxurious with a higher level of service and care.

Just the thread count on the linens! Oh, my God! Those linens! And then the smell of Saudi Princess.

 

[RoseGold]

When I went on the shiny, new RIV tour, it reminded me of any new-ish business hotel: gray on gray on non-offensive gray pattern.

If you had just shown me the lobby and a room, I wouldn't have been surprised if it were any Midwestern downtown Hyatt. That's not really an insult, Riviera is a nice property. But it isn't the Four Seasons. And it isn't the magic of the Jambo lobby or the Polynesian lobby. It seems DVC doesn't want to spend on things like that anymore.

I'd overlook all the gray and be all in RIV with a pink card or whatever, if the price were right, but I don't see how that can happen mathematically with that chart working as hard as it is. The low point rooms are already tight in booking, and that's with almost no resale in play. No one knows how booking will go when RIV has a significant amount of resale.

Just the thread count on the linens! Oh, my God! Those linens!

The Disney linens are, uh, adequate. I thought it was hilarious reading those stories about the NBA taking out all the Grand Floridian beds, because they refused to sleep in them! There was one DVC trip I would have liked to have a Peloton, like the Four Seasons. Then I walked 12 miles with Genie, so I guess I didn't need it after all.

 

[Paul Stupin]

And then you try to use the website. RIV is a nice hotel, but comparing DVC to Four Seasons is silly. It's never been on the same level. No concierge, no bathrobes, the bedding, the toiletries, you can't get anyone on the phone. They can't even be bothered to put a Keurig in or give you some laundry soap. DVC is a penny-pinching experience. I'm cool with that, I have a robe in my Owner's Locker, but let's not pretend this is the Four Seasons.

I do think the Poly room service rivals Four Seasons though! Never heard anyone talk about RIV room service, now that I think about it...

In terms of actual, physical rooms, and room size, and not taking into account the amenities or—agreed—the epic task of ever trying to get on the phone with member services, I think Riviera does compare to the Four Seasons. However nice, there’s a bit of a generic feel to Four Seasons’ rooms that for me suffers in comparison to Riviera.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Comparing ANY Disney hotel to a nice hotel off property is a joke. The thing DVC has going for it IMHO is the ability to get a multi room unit and spread out. But Four Seasons? Comparing DVC to a Four Seasons is like comparing a nice Days Inn to the Poly. Unless you have been in a badly managed Four Seasons.

With the exception of the Amazon Eco Lodge - every single hotel we stayed in during our Peru trip was nicer than any DVC room we've been in. All had bathrobes in the room, good toiletries. One had a four headed shower (honestly, frightening, I don't want that much water!). Two had separate living areas, one had a wood fireplace that staff would light for you. The other two were old mansions in Lima and Cusco - those each had old Peruvian art - not the mass produced hotel art normally in a hotel room (though I would have preferred NOT sleeping under a 17th century Madonna and Child). All included welcome cocktails and breakfast. And the Amazon Eco Lodge was a cabana with a view of the river - but a room that's highlights include a ceiling fan, hammocks, and mosquito netting are not to be compared with the Four Seasons.

I don’t think any of these comparisons are really applicable.

 

[crisi]

When I went on the shiny, new RIV tour, it reminded me of any new-ish business hotel: gray on gray on non-offensive gray pattern.

If you had just shown me the lobby and a room, I wouldn't have been surprised if it were any Midwestern downtown Hyatt. That's not really an insult, Riviera is a nice property. But it isn't the Four Seasons. And it isn't the magic of the Jambo lobby or the Polynesian lobby. It seems DVC doesn't want to spend on things like that anymore.

I'd overlook all the gray and be all in RIV with a pink card or whatever, if the price were right, but I don't see how that can happen mathematically with that chart working as hard as it is. The low point rooms are already tight in booking, and that's with almost no resale in play. No one knows how booking will go when RIV has a significant amount of resale.



The Disney linens are, uh, adequate. I thought it was hilarious reading those stories about the NBA taking out all the Grand Floridian beds, because they refused to sleep in them! There was one DVC trip I would have liked to have a Peloton, like the Four Seasons. Then I walked 12 miles with Genie, so I guess I didn't need it after all.

Disney beds are .... not to my taste. My husband gets to pick his side based on how deep the divot is on each side of the bed - he doesn't want to sleep in a trench. And yeah, I've slept in worse beds and on worse sheets. When I road trip out to visit my daughter I drive until I'm tired and then get on my phone to book a hotel on the next exit from a "decent" brand at the best price - I'm just sleeping. But there is a difference between "functional" and "Disney quality" and an even bigger difference between "Disney quality" and "Gainsborough Bath Spa" (the standard rooms are pretty small, but its my favorite hotel - it looks like they've gotten rid of the Georgian Hot Chocolate in the baths due to Covid).

 

[crisi]

I don’t think any of these comparisons are really applicable.

They are as applicable as Riviera is as nice as the Four Seasons. If you are going to claim that RIV is as nice as some of the best hotels in the world, then all comparisons are applicable.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Kinda why I'm in no hurry to stay in the bungalows at the Poly. I've stayed at the Four Seasons Resort Bora Bora...

 

[RoseGold]

Kinda why I'm in no hurry to stay in the bungalows at the Poly. I've stayed at the Four Seasons Resort Bora Bora...

Probably spent the same too!

 

[crisi]

In terms of actual, physical rooms, and room size, and not taking into account the amenities or—agreed—the epic task of ever trying to get on the phone with member services, I think Riviera does compare to the Four Seasons. However nice, there’s a bit of a generic feel to Four Seasons’ rooms that for me suffers in comparison to Riviera.

Standard Four Seasons rooms tend to be small, especially their international hotels by American standards. American hotel rooms are by and large HUGE where European hotel rooms tend to be much smaller - you can generally walk around the bed and that's about it. I think the smallest hotel room I've been in was in Sydney - it was an awesome hotel (Sydney Hilton) and the Marble Bar in the basement is AMAZING, but the room was barely big enough for the bed. But you don't stay in a European hotel for the square footage and you aren't in Sydney to hang in your hotel room (the Sydney Hilton has some huge public spaces - its a conventional hotel). Asian standard hotel rooms also tend to be small. The Intercontinental in Bangkok had orchids in the room, and some great public areas - but I think I climbed over my luggage to get to the bed (not quite, but it was cruise ship tight) Peruvian hotels were developed mainly around an American tourist industry and tend to be bigger. We stayed in two Inkaterras and two boutique hotels - the big "chain" was the Casa Andina in the Sacred Valley. The Serena lodges we stayed in in Africa had large room footprints and were really well themed. The food and bars were subpar and the beds and amenities weren't great, but we did stay in the middle of the Serengeti.

 

[crisi]

Kinda why I'm in no hurry to stay in the bungalows at the Poly. I've stayed at the Four Seasons Resort Bora Bora...

Oh, that is SO on my list. I asked my husband for that to be our post Covid trip - but we did a long delayed Peru trip with friends.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Probably spent the same too!

I don't remember exactly what we paid, it was almost 8 years ago, but it was around $1k per night for a one bedroom overwater. I will say that a Bora Bora standard one bedroom overwater bungalow is around 1/4 the price of a Poly bungalow, and the big mama 2 bedroom bungalow in Bora Bora (1,600 Sf with plunge pool) is right around the same price at +/- $4k per night.

Of course, there's no kitchen, so you're "forced" to rely on restaurants and room service...

 

[crisi]

I don't remember exactly what we paid, it was almost 8 years ago, but it was around $1k per night for a one bedroom overwater. I will say that a Bora Bora standard one bedroom overwater bungalow is around 1/4 the price of a Poly bungalow, and the big mama 2 bedroom bungalow in Bora Bora (1,600 Sf with plunge pool) is right around the same price at +/- $4k per night.

Of course, there's no kitchen, so you're "forced" to rely on restaurants and room service...

The cheapest one bedroom overwater bungalow is $1500 a night for a week in Jan 2022. $3000 if you want the plunge pool with a Lagoon View. It IS the Four Seasons and there are cheaper overwater bungalows in French Polynesia with similar ratings but less "brand." And airfare isn't cheap. (I was looking into it last year about this time as vaccines were announced).

 

[MICKIMINI]

I would not buy RIV direct or resale. Resale would not allow me to stay anywhere other than RIV. We added two nights in a studio at AKV within 30 days for a stay last month. If we owned RIV and there were no available villas we'd be out of luck. Just my opinion...

 

[DonMacGregor]

The cheapest one bedroom overwater bungalow is $1500 a night for a week in Jan 2022. $3000 if you want the plunge pool with a Lagoon View. It IS the Four Seasons and there are cheaper overwater bungalows in French Polynesia with similar ratings but less "brand." And airfare isn't cheap. (I was looking into it last year about this time as vaccines were announced).

I just looked up February, which is the month we visited in (anniversary), and the one bedrooms are $1,050.




It's $9,300 for 7 nights, out the door with resort fees (10%) and taxes. That leaves more than a couple of bucks for airfare.

 

[crisi]

I just looked up February, which is the month we visited in, and the one bedrooms are $1,050.

View attachment 623037

Maybe next Winter.....

 

[Dizzydizney]

How low would the price have to be for most of you to seriously consider buying? Having AKL resale we can access the other resorts, so my FOMO is thinking a small contract at Riviera wouldnt be so bad. Such thoughtful members here on this board. Would love some input!

Have you visited the Riviera yet and taken the tour? And I don’t mean a rush thru. I mean really examining everything, opening drawers, looking at the extra storage, the nice kitchenette in the studio, go out on the decks, lay on the beds, check out the different Murphy beds. The extra shower in the studio is nice. The drawback is the lack of a second shower or toilet in the one bedrooms, but two sink spaces is good. The kitchen is great too, although I’m not a big fan of galley type kitchens. BLT has the best kitchen.
We will be having our third stay there soon. We bought direct pre-opening. Have been thinking of adding on a small contract resale for studio and tower stays. But small contracts are priced too high right now and don’t come up very often. So may end up doing the minimum direct. We also have plenty of BLT and BWV points.
When our BWV contract ends, we will be in our 80’s. And I don’t think we will live to see the end of our BLT contract. We bought RIV for a few reasons: it’s small footprint and easy access from parking lot to one of two banks of elevators is great. Easy access to skyliner and two parks (as someone else previously said, we see scooters in our future and the skyliner is easy for those). The point friendly tower rooms are great for bookending a trip in a one bedroom. Or even the standard view studio. The really big non-feature pool is great with a nice sized hot tub. Although I’m not too happy with DVC because that was originally billed as an adults only pool. The quick service is really good and a short walk/elevator ride without having to go outside. The little library room off the lobby is a great place to hang out and play games or read a book if you need to kill time. I understand that there is some type of community hall now...haven’t seen it yet. Most of all, the contract expiration date. This will be for our kids and grandkids. Who knows what will happen with BWV and BLT. We will be adding their names to our BWV deeds in the next year or two ( will do it ourselves this time with the great step by step instructions someone was thoughtful enough to post on the purchasing board).
We’ve traveled a bit in Europe and UK, but cannot afford a Four Seasons. The Riviera is a very elegant place IMHO....so different than the vibe at BWV and the sterility of BLT. Of course some of the things in the room are not top shelf....let’s not forget it’s a timeshare....lots of people in a room handling lots of things and not being as careful as they should. The coffee pots for instance. Brewing a cup of coffee is not all that much work.....in fact I prefer that to my Keurig....I can imagine how many Keurigs would be broken or taken.....and they are much more expensive to replace (although they do have them in the Tower rooms....but you’d only have two people handling and there are not that many Tower rooms to begin with).
Only you can decide if it’s feasible for you to purchase ... if you buy resale it’s not a bad place to be “stuck at”. If you have some cash laying around, book a room there to try.....there are some deals for Disney Visa and AP holders out there....or maybe a DVC discount.
The points chart is pretty close to the Grand Floridian....and you can’t beat the Tower Room points. Of course GF is close to MK and does have really great restaurants.
It’s hard to say if the resale restrictions are turning people off. There is a huge population out there that have no clue about resale. Also the younger generation will look at the 2042 resorts and do the math.
I consider myself very fortunate to have 3 great resorts that will have easy access to the parks as we age .. except AK, but that is our least favorite park and usually spend only one morning there during our trips. If we feel the need to spend more time there, it is always easy to book at the AKL. We always do some kind of split stay.
You’ve received lots of insight and opinions. Good luck with your decision.

 

[BamaGuy44]

We are soon to be (hopefully if our ROFR passes) new DVC members. We will own at AKV and love that resort. Our last few trips we've stayed at the Swan and know we also love the Epcot resort area. I'm already thinking about where my first add on will be (can't help it...) and would consider a small direct contract at Riviera, but not resale. We toured it but haven't stayed. We love the rooms, the grounds, the small footprint, and being on the Skyliner. I know everyone raves about the dining, but it doesn't appear to be our taste. I'm sure the quality is fantastic, but we tend toward simpler tastes and a lot of fine dining doesn't appeal to us that much. To be fair we haven't tried it, just looked at the menus.

We have a short stay booked next September in a Standard studio with rented points, so we can get a good feel for it. If the Skyliner is a decent option for rope dropping Epcot and especially HS, I think it will be at the top of our list to own. Absolutely love being able to walk to the 2 parks from Swan, and I've seen mixed reviews of the Skyliner for rope drops and busy times. If not for the 2042 thing, BWV would probably be a slam dunk for us to own. Still don't rule it out.

 

[havoc315]

How low would the price have to be for most of you to seriously consider buying? Having AKL resale we can access the other resorts, so my FOMO is thinking a small contract at Riviera wouldnt be so bad. Such thoughtful members here on this board. Would love some input!

I'm a direct owner of Riviera.
For a prospective re-sale buyer,my questions and advice would be:
-- Is Riviera your favorite DVC property? If not, no reason to consider it, at pretty much any price.
Assuming Riviera is your favorite property:
-- Do you travel during high demand times of year? If so, availability is limited outside of your home resort anyway. There isn't much downside to the resale restrictions. You'd basically be stuck at your home resort regardless. So why not consider paying market price for your preferred resort.
--Even if Riviera is your favorite, by how much? Are there other resorts that you love just as much, and you'd want to do different resorts every year? Then again, Riviera probably isn't for you -- Though maybe for the right price, you'd be willing to sacrifice the ability to trade to other resorts. So, if BLT (for example) was $170 per point... Would you be willing to trade away the other resorts for a nice discount, down to $150 per point?
--Now, speaking for my own family -- Is your Riviera preference strong enough that you really don't think you're missing out if you can't really stay at the other resorts? If so, then go buy Riviera at market price.