Buying direct makes DVC better

[nd43]

While I understand where you are coming from, I don't think you have the necessary perspective to make these observations. You've only been on here a month. I think you need to give it some time to get a feel for the landscape before making sweeping judgments about the discourse that occurs on here..

I actually do not think I need more then a month to know when I am being insulted. For instance, when someone stats if you lack the intellect to know to buy resale it is your problem, it took me only a few seconds to figure out it was not a compliment to those buying direct.

One other thing, while I see the intent of your thread, it could also be interpreted another way. If one wanted to, they could read it as if you were thanking everyone for overpaying by buying direct so that we can get good prices on the resale market when they realize what a mistake they made. Because that's kind of what you are saying, whether you mean it or not.

ELMC, how you could read a "thank you" as saying this is beyond me. However, I give you credit for a highly creative reading of someone just saying "thank you for making DVC better".

 

[BTSD]

This is, unfortunately, the exact "spirit" of the problem for certain people that buy resale and post around here. They appear to think they must be smarter then everyone else that purchased direct. It is just sad. People who buy direct created the DVC system you now enjoy. The least you could do is not insult them. That is not asking a lot. You can be happy with your decision but do you need to insult other people to feel better about it?

I have bought both direct (my initial purchase) and later resale, so please don't insult me. The initial comment which was stated previously made it sound that we should feel sorry for the people buying direct because their salesperson didn't mention the resale market. My comment was questioning why we should feel sorry for anyone - whether buying direct or resale, everyone makes the decision based on what is best for them at that particular time.

 

[nd43]

IMO no one means to insult anyone.

Honestly, many of you say this a lot in this section of the forum. If you find yourself typing & reading this over and over, perhaps you should consider the fact you might actually be insulting people? The very people making DVC better for everyone. I just find it sad.

Disney makes more money on locking in long term Disney vacationers than they do selling timeshares. If Disney wanted to stop all resales, all they would have to do is ROFR every contract.

My point was really simple. Without direct, DVC has no future resorts and everyone suffers. I am just thanking them for making DVC better for everyone. This is not an attack on resale buyers, it is a recognition that people that buy direct play an invaluable role in keeping DVC vibrant. I think that deserves some appreciation.

 

[nd43]

I have bought both direct (my initial purchase) and later resale, so please don't insult me. The initial comment which was stated previously made it sound that we should feel sorry for the people buying direct because their salesperson didn't mention the resale market. My comment was questioning why we should feel sorry for anyone - whether buying direct or resale, everyone makes the decision based on what is best for them at that particular time.

Fully understand in context. Sorry for my misread. It is unfortunate because it was not in the spirit of my OP. Unfortunately, I allowed this misread to take this whole thing down a bad path which was not intended or desired.

I honestly just wanted people who buy direct to know they are building a better DVC even if all the various threads around here can make you say "oh god, did I make a mistake". No one likes that feeling. Yet, these people play a huge role in making DVC better.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Honestly, many of you say this a lot in this section of the forum. If you find yourself typing & reading this over and over, perhaps you should consider the fact you might actually be insulting people? The very people making DVC better for everyone. I just find it sad.

My point was really simple. Without direct, DVC has no future resorts and everyone suffers. I am just thanking them for making DVC better for everyone. This is not an attack on resale buyers, it is a recognition that people that buy direct play an invaluable role in keeping DVC vibrant. I think that deserves some appreciation.

I don't see how buying direct makes DVC better for everyone. I liked it better when it had fewer resorts. It was easier getting a reservation. With more members, the more popular times just get harder and harder to get. I'd really like to go back to the DVC of pre-2003.

One thing I do see with the present DVC is slimier sales people who tell potential members a lot of not so true "facts". Back in the late 1990's, the smaller sales force had a lot more reputable salespeople.

Jim Lewis didn't do a lot of great things for DVC (but more for Jim Lewis until his rapid descent downwards), Claire Bilbey seemed to be a little more pro-member. Still not sure where the new guy stands.

Your comment about keeping DVC vibrant? Not sure what you mean by that.

 

[Kidanifan08]

We purchased our first contract direct in 2008, for lack of a substantial amount of cash and a desire to start using DVC right away. Since learning about the resale market in 2011, all of my subsequent purchases have been resale (and any future purchases will be, as well, unless something drastic occurs). I wouldn't change our decision to buy direct in 2008. But the reality is that DVC pricing has gotten ridiculous.

I am not so sure about direct purchasers making DVC better for everyone. Yes, it's nice to try out new resorts, but keep in mind that every new DVC member added to the ranks is someone else who will be competing with the rest of us for that coveted reservation at the 7 month mark. Think about how thankful you are the next time someone who owns at Aulani scoops you for BCV or BLT during the holidays or F&W. Frankly, we bought DVC to stay at WDW. I couldn't care less if they ever build another offsite location.

So, while direct purchasers are needed for the sustenance of DVC building new resorts, it does not necessarily make DVC better for all of us.

 

[nd43]

Personally, I don't agree with this, and I hope they don't. The fact that DVC was able to recently raise prices on direct points strongly suggests that there is no such "need" to provide additional benefits. People are already willing to pay, for whatever reasons. The DVC business appears to be extremely healthy. If that does become a need, I have no doubt that Disney would be the first to know and that something would result out of it. But there will be drawbacks to creating a "second-class citizen" segment of customers, so hopefully they would take that into account before doing anything as well. I'm guessing that they do, and this is why they have done relatively little to distinguish between direct and resale purchasers.

I personally am not in favor of placing further restrictions on resale contracts because I believe it hurts everyone (most direct buyers eventually will sell). I also think it is a poor business strategy, however, others with more timeshare experience believe this is a common response by companies to widening resale issues. I hope Disney is more creative but others with more experience offer little hope.

If Disney wants direct to pay a substantial premium over resale (and they want to keep jacking up direct prices), I believe direct buyers deserve more perks. I think by adding benefits (vs. taking them away), it is the fairest & best way to handle the complete system while living with a widening delta between resale and direct. Again, no one is calling me for my opinion, I am not a timeshare guru, I am just buying direct and it would be my personal hope.

As a resale buyer, I would think others would like to see direct also get better incentives, again, to support the future growth of DVC that everyone will get to enjoy. It is a "win win" to me. Resale buyers save a lot of upfront money for a very complete and usable product and direct buyers get a few more perks for their higher investment. Again, many with more experience have made it clear this was a pipedream and Disney could care less (which I understand). It just happens to be my pipedream.

 

[Countryrunner262]

I think newbies come on the threads, me included, and ask for honest opinions. If not for these I would have never known about resale. I was talking to a guide for direct sales and resale was never brought up. I have an aunt who bought direct. I asked them if she ever sold hers to me, would that work out. She told me we would lose so many perks. After reading these so called "perks" I realized I would never use any of them. So that is when resale, from a money perspective, became our way to go. It was a matter of not having to finance or financing because of the huge price difference. That is not calling anyone else ignorant.

 

[nd43]

I don't see how buying direct makes DVC better for everyone. I liked it better when it had fewer resorts. It was easier getting a reservation. With more members, the more popular times just get harder and harder to get. I'd really like to go back to the DVC of pre-2003.

Your comment about keeping DVC vibrant? Not sure what you mean by that.

I agree, if you prefer DVC never build a new resort or sign up a new member that will now compete for your resort, my "thanks" is highly misplaced.

Vibrant was a way of saying DVC would grow and prosper in the future. Again, growth being something I would consider positive but clearly others do not.

 

[JimMIA]

Given the amount of energy spent on this board telling people to buy resale, I thought I would point out an obvious fact for those that have purchased direct or might purchase direct in the future. This is not a slap against our resale pushing friends, it is just a more balanced post for others that browse here.

Not really "fair and balanced," just a different point of view. And that's a good thing. Differences of opinions are what discussion groups are all about.

Your (direct) purchase is what makes DVC work and is the fuel that will make DVC better in the future.

Better for Disney stockholders, yes.

Better for DVC owners? Maybe yes, maybe no -- and irrelevent to the decision-makers whose fiduciary responsibility is to serve the interests of Disney stockholders...as it should be.

Disney management's responsibility (both fiduciary and ethical) is to increase the bottom line. Nothing sinister in that; it's called "capitalism," and it's a good thing.

Everyone benefits when Disney opens new resorts.

Like most broad generalities, this one is too simplistic to be correct. Many DVC owners were adversely affected by the building of two large resorts where many people purchased without really intending to stay there -- SSR and AKV. I remember the talk about dilution of ownership benefits, 7-month booking difficulties caused by those two resorts, etc.

To the degree that DVD can get Aulani rolling in the Asian market -- and those people use their Aulani points to book at WDW -- the same will be true with Aulani. We usually look at Aulani from the perspective of American or Canadian owners living on the West Coast, but the primary market for Aulani has always been China, Korea, and Japan.

...I hope Disney comes up with new ways to make that decision even better. As the spread between resale and direct has widened, the need for more benefits for buying direct appear needed IMO.

I disagree. First of all, I think only a small percentage of potential DVC direct purchasers even know a resale marketplace exists. If they know anything, they know only what a timeshare salesman told them -- that there is somehow a resale marketplace that protects their "investment," but that all resale points are BAD and/or useless!

Not all resale purchasers are smart people. I certainly was not. I took a tour, wanted more information and therefore Googled DVC to find their website to research more detailed information.

I ended up here on the DIS -- unfortunately for my "guide," fortunately for my family.

I purchased my first contract resale, the second direct. But that was in 2005 when there were only a few dollars difference in price. That was then, this is now -- but still very few prospective DVC purchasers have any clue about resale.

In that environment, there is no need to offer "more" to first-time buyers.

There might be some bottom-line benefit in offering "more" to existing DVC owners as an incentive to purchase add-ons direct. And there might be some bottom-line benefit to offering existing DVC owners to increase their points holdings by purchasing direct. And there is a bottom-line benefit in rewarding referrals for new sales by existing owners (there is no better salesperson than a happy owner).

But I think generally there is no need to improve the product being offered. There is plenty of differentiation and plenty of value already -- they don't need to give anything away. Nor should they.

 

[JimMIA]

Honestly, many of you say this a lot in this section of the forum. If you find yourself typing & reading this over and over, perhaps you should consider the fact you might actually be insulting people?

I haven't read anything on this thread that I thought was insulting, much less intentionally insulting.

What I have seen -- on this thread, and others on various topics -- is the posting of an idea expecting universal acceptance and acclaim...and being "insulted" when that is not the response.

Welcome to the DIS...and be glad you're not on TUG!

My point was really simple.

And therein lies some of the problem...

Without direct, DVC has no future resorts

Okay...?

...and everyone suffers.

Naw. Disney suffers. If the timeshare is good (and it is), the owners don't suffer at all.

 

[Dean]

Given the amount of energy spent on this board telling people to buy resale, I thought I would point out an obvious fact for those that have purchased direct or might purchase direct in the future. This is not a slap against our resale pushing friends, it is just a more balanced post for others that browse here.

Your purchase is what makes DVC work and is the fuel that will make DVC better in the future.

Everyone benefits when Disney opens new resorts. For instance, many on this board are almost giddy about the idea of a DVC location at Poly. Of course, none of this can happen without people buying direct.

So, if you can afford it, you did the right thing by buying direct if you want to be part of making DVC a more vibrant system in the future. In fact, all the people on this board that might question your decision are actually directly benefiting from your decision. Without you, DVC would die and no new locations would happen.

So, thank you. Honestly, I hope Disney comes up with new ways to make that decision even better. As the spread between resale and direct has widened, the need for more benefits for buying direct appear needed IMO. I hope Disney responds.

It makes me angry to hear that people "feel bad" for buying direct after reading posts on these boards. Frankly, because of you, these boards even exist. Never apologize for making DVC better for everyone.

A point I've made many times including very recently. Direct purchases are the life blood of any system. It essentially comes down to the benefit of the individual vs the benefit of the system and rest of the members. I cannot with good conscious throw a given potential member under the bus for the benefit of the rest including myself.

 

[disneynutz]

Honestly, many of you say this a lot in this section of the forum. If you find yourself typing & reading this over and over, perhaps you should consider the fact you might actually be insulting people? The very people making DVC better for everyone. I just find it sad.

I type that same thing over and over because the same questions are asked over and over several time per week.

Bill

 

[Dean]

Honestly, many of you say this a lot in this section of the forum. If you find yourself typing & reading this over and over, perhaps you should consider the fact you might actually be insulting people? The very people making DVC better for everyone. I just find it sad.

One has to CHOOSE to be offended. Questions and thread's come along where it's applicable, no more or less. I've been here for some 15 years, the answers have changed over the time as the situations and information have changed. If you choose to be offended because the answer doesn't fit your choice, that's on you. You have the choice to make such a decision, however, the fact that you made the choice does not make it the best choice, it may or may not be. It's no different than if someone says a given car is junk and you just bought the car. Should they not say anything if someone is asking about that car and considering buying it, I say they should post their honest opinion if applicable.

 

[nd43]

I must admit, this did catch me off guard. Several DVC members have now posted they prefer not to see new resorts be built (some only certain types of new resorts - others any type of new resort). It is an interesting perspective.

There is another group that appears to be very excited about Poly, Fort Wilderness, VGF, etc. However, that is just another view I guess.

For those that prefer DVC dies on the vine and no longer grows, again, my apologies for buying direct and causing DVC further success.

 

[davedmaine]

Given the amount of energy spent on this board telling people to buy resale, I thought I would point out an obvious fact for those that have purchased direct or might purchase direct in the future. This is not a slap against our resale pushing friends, it is just a more balanced post for others that browse here.

Your purchase is what makes DVC work and is the fuel that will make DVC better in the future.

Everyone benefits when Disney opens new resorts. For instance, many on this board are almost giddy about the idea of a DVC location at Poly. Of course, none of this can happen without people buying direct.

So, if you can afford it, you did the right thing by buying direct if you want to be part of making DVC a more vibrant system in the future. In fact, all the people on this board that might question your decision are actually directly benefiting from your decision. Without you, DVC would die and no new locations would happen.

So, thank you. Honestly, I hope Disney comes up with new ways to make that decision even better. As the spread between resale and direct has widened, the need for more benefits for buying direct appear needed IMO. I hope Disney responds.

It makes me angry to hear that people "feel bad" for buying direct after reading posts on these boards. Frankly, because of you, these boards even exist. Never apologize for making DVC better for everyone.

Wow.. That just doesn't make any sense.

 

[JimMIA]

There is another group that appears to be very excited about Poly, Fort Wilderness, VGF, etc. However, that is just another view I guess.

I'm excited about VGF...and if someone wanted to stay there, I'd tell them to buy OKW or SSR resale and do so.

IF DVD builds Poly or Fort Wilderness, I'll be equally excited about those additions too. (I've heard DVC rumors before.) And my OKW/SSR resale strategy will remain the same.

For those that prefer DVC dies on the vine and no longer grows, again, my apologies for buying direct and causing DVC further success.

As Messrs. Barltles and Jaymes used to say, "We thank you for your support!"

 

[Missyrose]

I must admit, this did catch me off guard. Several DVC members have now posted they prefer not to see new resorts be built (some only certain types of new resorts - others any type of new resort). It is an interesting perspective.

There is another group that appears to be very excited about Poly, Fort Wilderness, VGF, etc. However, that is just another view I guess.

For those that prefer DVC dies on the vine and no longer grows, again, my apologies for buying direct and causing DVC further success.

Again, you're taking a very simplistic view of "good" vs. "bad" when it comes to DVC. Like PPs have said, it wasn't DVC's growth that is the problem, it's how it chose to grow. Disney got greedy and wanted to sell as many points as possible, so they built two very big resorts (AKV and SSR) that are fairly remote in terms of proximity to parks. Some salespeople even convinced SSR buyers to buy there and never intend to stay there.

The bottom line is the resorts with non-bus access to the parks (BCV, BWV, BLT, VWL) are all fairly small resorts and those resorts and remain where many members want to stay. But if you keep adding members at the larger resorts in slightly less-desirable locations, there's more competition for the more-desirable resorts. Of course all resorts have their fans and there are a fair number of people who would rather stay at OKW/SSR/AKV over BLT/BCV/BWV/VWL.

The new wrinkle will be the new VGF villas and the theoretical Poly DVC that might be on the way. Even if the DVC buildings at those resorts aren't very big, it would still add to the number of villas in the more-desirable location. So perhaps growth such as that will be helpful to existing members.

But it's very hard to say Scenario A is good for DVC and Scenario B is bad, which is what you appear to want to do OP.

 

[nd43]

One has to CHOOSE to be offended. Questions and thread's come along where it's applicable, no more or less. I've been here for some 15 years, the answers have changed over the time as the situations and information have changed. If you choose to be offended because the answer doesn't fit your choice, that's on you. You have the choice to make such a decision, however, the fact that you made the choice does not make it the best choice, it may or may not be.

Actually, sometimes people are just offensive. You cannot always place that on the other person. It is not a crime or anything. I have been accused of being offensive on this very thread (and I was, because I misunderstood someone's post). It happens. I do not think it is mean spirited and almost every time it was un-intended from what I have read. That does not mean it was not offensive.

When people ask for advice, I think this board is great. However, sometimes I see people give advice when never asked. I think that can become offensive whether the person intended it or not.

It is one thing to say "that car is junk" when someone is looking to buy it. It is another to run up to someone and say "your car is junk" when they never asked you about it. You can blame the other person for "chosing" to be offended and take comfort that the person gave an honest opinion. However, I just call it being offensive.

 

[nd43]

Again, you're taking a very simplistic view of "good" vs. "bad" when it comes to DVC. Like PPs have said, it wasn't DVC's growth that is the problem, it's how it chose to grow.

I put your take into the "it depends" on what type of growth category like several others. I saw that some current owners just questioned certain types of resorts as being good for current membership. However, others clearly said they prefer NO resorts be built because they preferred how DVC worked in prior years any growth was negative. At least that is what they posted. They might alter that on further reflection (who knows).

Again, this was all just a new perspective for me. I see there are different takes on what type (or any type) of growth is good for current DVC owners.

I should be more clear, I think more people would appreciate a VGF type expansion from what I have read. However, not all. I was only apologizing to the people that prefer absolutely no expansion. That camp had a view I never even considered.