Buying direct makes DVC better

[Dean]

Well, I certainly apologize then.

Unfortunately, it is not the first time in this thread I had to apologize for starting a thread trying to thank people.

I have also been accused of being over sensitive.

So I have managed to be offensive (due to lack of sensitivity) and over sensitive in the same thread.

Can we call a truce on this one? It started by me just trying to thank some people. Obviously is has spiraled from there.

It's OK, really, we've all been there. The problem with the written word, esp on an email list or BBS, is that you can't see body language and you don't truly know the person other than what is written. IMO it's the aggregate information that makes places such as DIS so good for others. First round's on me if we're there at the same time and can get together.

 

[nd43]

It's OK, really, we've all been there. The problem with the written word, esp on an email list or BBS, is that you can't see body language and you don't truly know the person other than what is written. IMO it's the aggregate information that makes places such as DIS so good for others. First round's on me if we're there at the same time and can get together.

Thanks Dean. I will try and take my last shred of pride along with me. It could use a refill.

 

[DisneyFansInLINY]

Would ND44 be too obvious?

I honestly just call uncle. The funny thing is, I really do appreciate the board and have found it very helpful (from everyone). I just really stink at sharing my thoughts on boards. It is just slow and painful watching me take a dive on this one.

I've been there. I believe my thread got closed lol And I got several PMs about my attitude problem. I can't help it that God blessed me with the gift of sarcasm. But don't worry about this thread. It seems to have given a lot of people something to do for a few hours

 

[Dean]

Thanks Dean. I will try and take my last shred of pride along with me. It could use a refill.

Those of us who routinely participate in thread types that often produce issues take the risk of offending people where non is intended. As rule most people are trying to help even when they disagree. I can't speak for others but personally there are generally only certain types of thread's I participate in. Rules, technical, exchanges and those where philosophy/ethics come into play mostly. I only read thread's where the title interests me or catches my eye. I usually don't attempt too much humor for the reasons you likely wish you didn't. While I have many friends here, I don't use this or other similar sites as a social forum. I try to proof my posts and often censor myself to avoid real or potential negatives. At the end of the day and IMO sites such as DIS exist for one main reason, information sharing. I am a rule follower by nature.

 

[nd43]

I usually don't attempt too much humor for the reasons you likely wish you didn't.

Very good advice. Of course I edited my prior post admitting to my mistake. I could not remove what others quoted. So my mistake will live on for others to learn I guess.

 

[Dean]

Very good advice. Of course I edited my prior post admitting to my mistake. I could not remove what others quoted. So my mistake will live on for others to learn I guess.

Your admissions speak far louder than your post referenced. Enjoy your week.

 

[AmyB2006]

Yes...but that isn't usually what people are talking about in the direct vs. resale discussion, because you can ONLY buy points at the newly opened resorts direct.

Not true. We bought direct at BCV in December of 2011. Right now, this current week, you might not be able to do that, but then you could. And this could change 6 months from now as well, where more resorts are available direct.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Not true. We bought direct at BCV in December of 2011. Right now, this current week, you might not be able to do that, but then you could. And this could change 6 months from now as well, where more resorts are available direct.

Good catch, Amy.

 

[Gcvav]

Wow, so much passion on these boards! I just love dvc. We were so excited when we bought our first contract direct. We were nervous buying resale but ended up doing so recently. It was successful. I do feel that sometimes there is judgement in the tone of posts of the people that buy direct which takes from the experience for some. It comes down to whatever is comfortable for everyone and in the end we are all supporting dvc and one another.

 

[ELMC]

Yes...but that isn't usually what people are talking about in the direct vs. resale discussion, because you can ONLY buy points at the newly opened resorts direct (by definition, there is nothing to resell until it has been sold in the first place). So while it is technically true that without direct purchases there would be no new resorts, it also, I think, kind of obscures the issue that people are talking about.

I don't care a lick whether people buy resale or direct. But I would like them to fully understand the differences in terms of costs and benefits. Pretty much everyone who buys resale knows of the direct market, but the same is not true for everyone (or maybe even most) who buy direct knowing about the resale market. So it makes sense that there would be more information and writing about the resale market in places like this.

Not true. We bought direct at BCV in December of 2011. Right now, this current week, you might not be able to do that, but then you could. And this could change 6 months from now as well, where more resorts are available direct.

Amy I think you misunderstood what he was saying (and you actually misquoted him when you eliminated what he wrote in parenthesis). I believe his point was that when a resort is new, your only option for ownership is to buy it direct, because there are no available resales. Because it's brand new.

 

[Richmond566]

I am trying to buy resale now...hope it gets by ROFR

 

[nd43]

Out of curiosity, why are you choosing to buy direct and pay double the price of resale? Is it so that you can support DVC or do you have another reason?

Sorry, ELMC, you asked a good question here and I missed it during my melt down over a truly poor choice of post on my part. BTW, I still apologize for that.

I prefer to buy direct for several seasons (not just supporting DVC going forward for my family). I just found the resale process very slow, the selection was pretty poor (right now), and I lost a lot of time with my first attempt which fell to ROFR. That is why I really am not an "anti" resale guy (I tried it myself - it makes a ton of financial sense). I am also concerned about how Disney is going to handle the growing divide between resale and direct. It is just an unknown. If I am honest with myself, I also just like having all the possible options going forward even if they are not the best use of points.

However, while I am on the wait list for BWV, my interest has shifted to VGF. I realize buying an old resort, direct, does not really advance DVC and is probably the toughest financial decision. However, we like BWV, and money aside, that counts for a lot.

My problem with VGF is I do not know the data yet. It might just price us out of the market by point cost and use chart and I will have to reflect on the whole decision again. I think it has the best chance of being a "better" direct decision if Disney comes out with a reasonable incentive package given past resort performance. We also like the idea of a "new" resort in such a nice location. I will have to wait and see. If they add more perks, it will also make the direct decision easier.

 

[disbound09]

Direct vs Resale, New Car vs Used, Private School vs Public, all are choices, you aren't wrong choosing one over the other, neither would exist without the other. I am thankful others choose Direct so I could afford Resale.

 

[Fan of Figment]

Direct vs Resale, New Car vs Used, Private School vs Public, all are choices, you aren't wrong choosing one over the other, neither would exist without the other. I am thankful others choose Direct so I could afford Resale.

I wish there was a "like" button for comments. Perfectly stated!

 

[Dean]

Not true. We bought direct at BCV in December of 2011. Right now, this current week, you might not be able to do that, but then you could. And this could change 6 months from now as well, where more resorts are available direct.

I don't think he was saying the only choice for direct were the new resorts but rather that new resorts could only be bought direct. In large part this is true. Initially direct is the only way, it usually take a couple of years for a new resort to have much availability resale, esp for a price that one would save much resale.

There are reasons to buy retail, I think most agree this is so. From a reasonability standpoint they center around those looking to buy the new resorts to actually use them, small contracts, when the price difference isn't dramatic such as HI or CA and for availability issues. Also, if one has decided to finance, direct used to be the only way to get a loan directly for the timeshare, that has changed. Unfortunately some talk themselves into retail for questionable reasons such as comfort level or for the perks that cost you more than you would get without buying those points (DCL, etc). This is based on the current landscape where resale is barely 50-60% of retail, not the recent old days when 80-85% was more the norm. Here's another example. When BLT started selling some bought there because the dues were lower, kind of the same reason that we generally recommend against VB & HH simply for a point cow. Unfortunately for those it was predictable that the dues would tighten up to the pack and that it was unlikely they'd ever make up the difference over the entire life of the contract. Obviously we don't know for certain how this will go and if they also wanted BLT and to stay there regularly, good for them. Likely the only resort that would get my attn to consider retail at WDW is GF but clearly the points will be too expensive to make it reasonable to pay 3 times what I have in my current points, esp when I can go pretty much any time so I know I'll be able to get in.

 

[DVCanadian]

Well, I certainly apologize then.

Unfortunately, it is not the first time in this thread I had to apologize for starting a thread trying to thank people.

I have also been accused of being over sensitive.

So I have managed to be offensive (due to lack of sensitivity) and over sensitive in the same thread.

Can we call a truce on this one? It started by me just trying to thank some people. Obviously is has spiraled from there.

You've got nothing to apologize for. You started a thread to get a little positive direct buy vibe going and 60 some posts later you are apologizing? A lot of what you said is dead on and it brought out the defensive posts.

That post you deleted is so funny because it is true. If anyone is offended by it they must be choosing to be offended or they don't have the experience with disney or maybe not enough contracts to really understand the questions they should be asking.

 

[nd43]

Unfortunately some talk themselves into retail for questionable reasons such as comfort level or for the perks that cost you more than you would get without buying those points (DCL, etc)

Dean, honest question here. As we were in the middle of trying to get our purchase of DVC completed, we ended up making a summer trip plan to southern CA. Given Disney was so "on the brain", we decided, what the heck, lets spend a night at Disneyland and stay the GC again.

For the basic room, no view, it has cost us $585 per night in July. I checked the chart, and if I had points, and we could get this room w/ points, it was only around 62 pts. per night. To me, that would have been some real savings over the rate I am actually paying.

Yet, people consistently state such perks are "poor value". They might not be the same value as a villa, but is it really that poor of a value?

I guess people would say you could rent 62 points, get $620 bucks, and save $35 dollars, but that is a lot of work, without certainty (and all the various other issues w/ renting), for $35 bucks. Is that why they think it is poor value?

 

[Airb330]

Dean, honest question here. As we were in the middle of trying to get our purchase of DVC completed, we ended up making a summer trip plan to southern CA. Given Disney was so "on the brain", we decided, what the heck, lets spend a night at Disneyland and stay the GC again.

For the basic room, no view, it has cost us $585 per night in July. I checked the chart, and if I had points, and we could get this room w/ points, it was only around 62 pts. per night. To me, that would have been some real savings over the rate I am actually paying.

Yet, people consistently state such perks are "poor value". They might not be the same value as a villa, but is it really that poor of a value?

I guess people would say you could rent 62 points, get $620 bucks, and save $35 dollars, but that is a lot of work, without certainty (and all the various other issues w/ renting), for $35 bucks. Is that why they think it is poor value?

I'd argue both are a poor value. I wouldn't use 62 points for one room, nor would I pay $585 in cash for that room. For 63 points, in July, I could get a Savannah room for a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night stay. I'd value that at well over $900 for only 1 point more at AKL Villas.

I only want to use my points when I feel I am maximizing my savings. For that one night in July in DLR, if it were me, I'd be looking at the Sheraton, Hilton, etc. We also only have 100 points, so we really try to maximize their usage. I'd rather pay $140 at the Hilton Anaheim and bank those points for another trip where they have more value. If we had 300 points, we'd probably feel differently.

 

[nd43]

I'd argue both are a poor value. I wouldn't use 62 points for one room, nor would I pay $585 in cash for that room. For 63 points, in July, I could get a Savannah room for a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night stay. I'd value that at well over $900 for only 1 point more at AKL Villas.

I only want to use my points when I feel I am maximizing my savings. For that one night in July in DLR, if it were me, I'd be looking at the Sheraton, Hilton, etc. We also only have 100 points, so we really try to maximize their usage. I'd rather pay $140 at the Hilton Anaheim and bank those points for another trip where they have more value. If we had 300 points, we'd probably feel differently.

Ok, that makes sense to me then. If you are trying to "max" your points, this whole thing just says "poor value". For us, the GC is our choice. We are staying there regardless. The only question is whether we pay cash or points. So, for us, the decision is just different.

I guess that is the trouble with declaring something as having "poor value". You really need to understand what the person is trying to accomplish to understand the underlying value to the owner. I can see now, however, for many why this scenario would be poor value but what options they would consider is much broader then I would have considered.

If you want to stay at the GC, I still think the pt. cost vs. cash cost for a regular hotel room still creates real savings for the DVC owner. Given the VGC are almost always books, you might need to use a regular hotel room to stay at GC.

 

[Airb330]

Ok, that makes sense to me then. If you are trying to "max" your points, this whole thing just says "poor value". For us, the GC is our choice. We are staying there regardless. The only question is whether we pay cash or points. So, for us, the decision is just different.

I guess that is the trouble with declaring something as having "poor value". You really need to understand what the person is trying to accomplish to understand the underlying value to the owner. I can see now, however, for many why this scenario would be poor value but what options they would consider is much broader then I would have considered.

If you want to stay at the GC, I still think the pt. cost vs. cash cost for a regular hotel room still creates real savings for the DVC owner. Given the VGC are almost always books, you might need to use a regular hotel room to stay at GC.

Exactly. It is all relative. My husband, best friend and I just came back from VGC. We used points though; we managed to snag them at 8AM on the 7th month window. It is very convenient location and a lovely hotel.

So, even though, in my case I wouldn't use 62 points, for others it could still be worth it. You proved $585 vs $620 with renting isn't that big of a difference at all. While I'd stay at the Hilton, if you have the points and won't use them for a better value, no harm in using them. If you'd feel the $585 out of pocket, better to use the points. We have a good amount of Starwood Points and used to have a good amount of Hilton HHonors points; we also tried to use the same logic around using them, but once or twice we used them for 'sub-optimal' uses when cash was tighter than normal.