Bush sets record-longest vacation in recent history

[BuckNaked]

It's the right wing's personal attacks that I take issue with and many of them are right here on this thread. An internet search will find some of the most outrageous personal attacks on her anyone would care to see and all because they don't agree with her politically.

Problem is, you see any criticism of her as a personal attack.

 

[BuckNaked]

Criticism of her political view? It's fair game I suppose, although personally I won't be critical of anyone who has lost a child due to this war no matter what side they are on. That's just me.....I think living with the death of a child is sufficient to be afforded the luxury of being able to say whatever the hell you want to say about the war...either way.

There are plenty of people to argue with about the war. I'll leave grieving mothers alone, but as I said that's just me.

Of course she can say whatever she wants to about the way, either way. But so can everyone else, and that doesn't mean they are sliming her.

And I doubt that anyone is arguing with her about the war - she's surrounded by like minded people that aren't going to disagree with her about her agenda.

 

[transparant]

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2005/08/message-to-cindy-sheehan.html

Mohammed, an Iraqi writing from Iraq answers Cindy Sheehans questions:



Friday, August 12, 2005

A message to Cindy Sheehan
I realize how tragic your loss is and I know how much pain there is crushing your heart and I know the darkness that suddenly came to wrap your life and wipe away your dreams and I do feel the heat of your tears that won't dry until you find the answers to your question; why you lost your loved one?

I have heard your story and I understand that you have the full right to ask people to stand by your side and support your cause. At the beginning I told myself, this is yet another woman who lost a piece of her heart and the questions of war, peace and why are killing her everyday. To be frank to you the first thing I thought of was like "why should I listen or care to answer when there are thousands of other women in America, Iraq and Afghanistan who lost a son or a husband or a brother…”

But today I was looking at your picture and I saw in your eyes a persistence, a great pain and a torturing question; why?

I know how you feel Cindy, I lived among the same pains for 35 years but worse than that was the fear from losing our loved ones at any moment. Even while I'm writing these words to you there are feelings of fear, stress, and sadness that interrupt our lives all the time but in spite of all that I'm sticking hard to hope which if I didn't have I would have died years ago.

Ma'am, we asked for your nation's help and we asked you to stand with us in our war and your nation's act was (and still is) an act of ultimate courage and unmatched sense of humanity.
Our request is justified, death was our daily bread and a million Iraqi mothers were expecting death to knock on their doors at any second to claim someone from their families.
Your face doesn't look strange to me at all; I see it everyday on endless numbers of Iraqi women who were struck by losses like yours.

Our fellow country men and women were buried alive, cut to pieces and thrown in acid pools and some were fed to the wild dogs while those who were lucky enough ran away to live like strangers and the Iraqi mother was left to grieve one son buried in an unfound grave and another one living far away who she might not get to see again.

We did nothing to deserve all that suffering, well except for a dream we had; a dream of living like normal people do.

We cried out of joy the day your son and his comrades freed us from the hands of the devil and we went to the streets not believing that the nightmare is over.
We practiced our freedom first by kicking and burning the statues and portraits of the hateful idol who stole 35 years from the life of a nation.
For the first time air smelled that beautiful, that was the smell of freedom.

The mothers went to break the bars of cells looking for the ones they lost 5, 12 or 20 years ago and other women went to dig the land with their bare hand searching for a few bones they can hold in their arms after they couldn't hold them when they belonged to a living person.

I recall seeing a woman on TV two years ago, she was digging through the dirt with her hands. There was no definite grave in there as the whole place was one large grave but she seemed willing to dig the whole place looking for her two brothers who disappeared from earth 24 years ago when they were dragged from their colleges to a chamber of hell.

Her tears mixed with the dirt of the grave and there were journalists asking her about what her brothers did wrong and she was screaming "I don't know, I don't know. They were only college students. They didn't murder anyone, they didn't steal, and they didn't hurt anyone in their lives. All I want to know is the place of their grave".

Why was this woman chosen to lose her dear ones? Why you? Why did a million women have to go through the same pain?

We did not choose war for the sake of war itself and we didn't sacrifice a million lives for fun! We could've accepted our jailor and kept living in our chains for the rest of our lives but it's freedom ma'am.
Freedom is not an American thing and it's not an Iraqi thing, it's what unites us as human beings. We refuse all kinds of restrictions and that's why we fought and still fighting everyday in spite of the swords in the hands of the cavemen who want us dead or slaves for their evil masters.

You are free to go and leave us alone but what am I going to tell your million sisters in Iraq? Should I ask them to leave Iraq too? Should I leave too? And what about the eight millions who walked through bombs to practice their freedom and vote? Should they leave this land too?
Is it a cursed land that no one should live in? Why is it that we were chosen to live in all this pain, why me, why my people, why you?

But I am not leaving this land because the bad guys are not going to leave us or you to live in peace. They are the same ones who flew the planes to kill your people in New York.
I ask you in the name of God or whatever you believe in; do not waste your son's blood.
We here have decided to avenge humanity, you and all the women who lost their loved ones.
Take a look at our enemy Cindy, look closely at the hooded man holding the sword and if you think he's right then I will back off and support your call.

We live in pain and grief everyday, every hour, every minute; all the horrors of the powers of darkness have been directed at us and I don't know exactly when am I going to feel safe again, maybe in a year, maybe two or even ten; I frankly don't know but I don't want to lose hope and faith.

We are in need for every hand that can offer some help. Please pray for us, I know that God listens to mothers' prayers and I call all the women on earth to pray with you for peace in this world.

Your son sacrificed his life for a very noble cause…No, he sacrificed himself for the most precious value in this existence; that is freedom.

His blood didn't go in vain; your son and our brethren are drawing a great example of selflessness.
God bless his free soul and God bless the souls of his comrades who are fighting evil.
God bless the souls of Iraqis who suffered and died for the sake of freedom.
God bless all the freedom lovers on earth.

 

[peachgirl]

Problem is, you see any criticism of her as a personal attack.

No, actually I don't.

I do think that accusing her of draining welfare dry, innuendos about where she gets her money, and claiming she's over the edge and just being used are pretty much personal attacks.

Truth be told, I don't actually agree with everything she says, but I do believe I can tell the difference between political discussion and sliming.

These btw, would all fall into the category of sliming:

She is our later day version of Jane Fonda. The only thing she hasnt done is hug a terrorist)

Saddam Cindy doesn't give one shiite about the soldiers in Iraq. In fact, it appears that her goal may be to get more soldiers killed , so more mothers will feel the same pain.

I'm sure though, to be fair, when these types get their act together and bring in their crowd down to Crawford, you'll say that they're just being used by the right wing extremists...right?

 

[BuckNaked]

No, actually I don't.

I do think that accusing her of draining welfare dry, innuendos about where she gets her money, and claiming she's over the edge and just being used are pretty much personal attacks.

Truth be told, I don't actually agree with everything she says, but I do believe I can tell the difference between political discussion and sliming.

These btw, would all fall into the category of sliming:





I'm sure though, to be fair, when these types get their act together and bring in their crowd down to Crawford, you'll say that they're just being used by the right wing extremists...right?

Hearing her interview yesterday, she did sound over the edge. Not so much what she was saying, but rather her demeanor. She would start talking about something, go off on something else, say something, then 2 minutes later contradict herself. I don't if it was from being tired or what, but during parts of the interview, she sounded like she was on the verge of being incoherent.

And I find those comments you posted to be awful, and they certainly aren't anything I would defend, though I certainly defend their right to say such things, as I'm sure you do.

I don't think Sheehan is being used by left wing extremists, I think she is a left wing extremist that now has a vehicle for pushing her agenda forward, and she's taking it.

 

[ThAnswr]

Depends on what your goals are. The reality is that cuts at the higher margins generally result in cuts toprograms that disproportionately benefit the politically powerless. If that is your goal, then it makes. That's why I have always maintained that the tax cuts of the last few years have been a total success, defined in terms of their true ends. They were sold as some form of marginal analysis, SSE job creating economic stimulus. In that resect, they failed miserably. But that was never their true goal. Their true aim was to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, and in that they succeeded

Bush and crew have accomplished the 3 things they set out to do:

1) give a tax cut to the rich

2) topple Saddam Hussein

3) get re-elected

 

[BuckNaked]

Bush and crew have accomplished the 3 things they set out to do:

1) give a tax cut to the rich

2) topple Saddam Hussein

3) get re-elected

Just to keep everyone honest here, I'll repeat that with the exception of people that get caught in AMT, everyone that pays income tax got a tax cut.

 

[Teejay32]

Criticism of her political view? It's fair game I suppose, although personally I won't be critical of anyone who has lost a child due to this war no matter what side they are on. That's just me.....I think living with the death of a child is sufficient to be afforded the luxury of being able to say whatever the hell you want to say about the war...either way.

I'd rather her just be left alone myself. She's a victim of sorts of those policies she opposes, so she's earned her right to do this. But to me she doesn't really have a cause except anger toward Bush, and we see that every day. The other people making her a figure for their organizations, like Crawford Peace House, (no war/free palestine/other cause of choice) and/or people who just seem to worship victimhood, like the ones going on hunger strikes until Bush meets with her - very hard not to take issue with them just for the fact of being there. It's completely foreign to me why others would want to nod right along with her, "uh-huh, your son died for absolutely nothing. Let's bring down the President."

 

[ThAnswr]

She's not just a grieving mother. She's a war protestor stomping on graves. She's made her inane views very clear already. She just wants to meet with Bush so she can yell and scream at him and get more press for herself. It's all about her.

She's the one doing the sliming.

Oh geeeez, she's a war protestor. Last I heard that was still allowed in this country.

Her inane view: Last I heard this was still America and a person is entitled to their view.

She's got something to say to Bush: good for her. He works for her, she doesn't work for him.

And when you strip away all the bull****, she's a mother who lost in son in Iraq.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Since people like you love to spout off much about being "Christian". So ask yourself "what would Jesus do".

What a disgrace. But, by all means, don't stop now.

 

[ThAnswr]

If you strip away all of the political agendas, Cindy Sheehan would not be where she is. She has her own political agenda, just because she is a mother who has lost a child doesn't change that. She is not getting "slimed" because she is a "grieving mother who lost her son in Iraq". She is getting responses back because she has made a political statement herself.

I don't claim that the President not giving her some time is a good idea, but - have you visited her website? http://www.gsfp.org/ They are very left wing. They do not want a meeting with the President, they want him impeached. Have you read what they have to say? "War is a crime". Not this war, but all war.

I just want to know one thing. She wants the President out of office. Ok, we had an election, her side lost. Why does her vote count more than mine? Because she lost a child? Because of this she gets her voice heard more than anyone else? Because of this her opinion is more important, no matter what it is? She has created herself as a political target who happens to be a grieving mother, she is not a political target because she is a grieving mother.

She already met with the President last year. She has already met with members of the White House this year. Her 15 minutes of fame expired last week - enough already.

Good for her: she's got a poltical agenda. Big ****ing deal.

She wants the Bush out of office: again good for her. At this point, that's about half the American public and climbing. More people want Bush impeached than wanted Clinton impeached.

Her voice is being heard than yours: She's there and you're not. Stage our own protest if you want your voice heard.

And in spite of the political agenda, the desire for Bush to leave office, and having her voice heard, she's still a mother who lost a son in Iraq.

What a disgraceful display going on here.

 

[ThAnswr]

That's a really nasty thing to say about a woman lost her 24-year-old son to an RPG attack.

The righties are doing the country the biggest favor they could ever do. They're letting their true colors show. They're showing just what "compassionate conservatives" they really are and what it really means. They're showing us those family/moral values they always like to preach about.

I hope the righties never stop.

 

[BuckNaked]

What a disgraceful display going on here.

OK, I'll bite - what is disgraceful about stating the obvious, i.e., that Sheehan has a political agenda?

 

[ThAnswr]

In her role as a mom, she has my deepest sympathy.

In her role as a war protestor, I stand by my statements.

And I stand by mine: "What would Jesus do?"

I doubt very much Jesus would've sped past Cindy Sheehan in a motorcade to get to a fundraiser the way Bush did today.

 

[BuckNaked]

And I stand by mine: "What would Jesus do?"

I doubt very much Jesus would've sped past Cindy Sheehan in a motorcade to get to a fundraiser the way Bush did today.

He ignores all of the other war protesters, why should she be any different?

 

[ThAnswr]

OK, I'll bite - what is disgraceful about stating the obvious, i.e., that Sheehan has a political agenda?

Sheehan has a political agenda: Big ****ing deal. This is still America and people are entitled to their agendas.

Again, agenda or not, she's still a mother who lost a son in Iraq.

Btw, you either understand the disgraceful behavior exhibited here or you don't. Obviously, you don't, so carry on.

 

[rcyannacci]

And I stand by mine: "What would Jesus do?"

I doubt very much Jesus would've sped past Cindy Sheehan in a motorcade to get to a fundraiser the way Bush did today.

Yeah, Jesus probably would have taken public transportation...better for the environment.

 

[BuckNaked]

Sheehan has a political agenda: Big ****ing deal. This is still America and people are entitled to their agendas.

Again, agenda or not, she's still a mother who lost a son in Iraq.

Btw, you either understand the disgraceful behavior exhibited here or you don't. Obviously, you don't, so carry on.

Of course she's entitled to her agenda...just as we're entitled to think she's wrong.

And I take it from your response that you consider any questioning of her motives or agenda to be disgraceful?

 

[ThAnswr]

The master of the double standard is back! Missed ya -- really, I did!

I didn't miss you one damned bit.

Believe me, I know all too well what you have in Ms. Sheehan. I also know that there are more constructive ways to deal with grief and loss than abandoning one's family and making it one's most noble life's accomplishment to bring down a President.

Who do you think you are to decide how someone should grieve? Where do you get the cajones to tell a grieving mother you just don't like her grieving style? Your opinion on how someone should grieve and $1.50+ will get you a ride on the subway.

Ms. Sheehan is turning her loss into something ugly and is seeking to replace that loss with the fleeting satisfaction that comes from public adulation. What she doesn't realize is that this will soon pass and she will be a mother who lost her son, her job, and her family. She is making some sad choices as a result of her loss that may eventually leave her without anything to fall back on.

Her loss was ugly long before she got to Crawford. And when she leaves Crawford, she will still be a mother who lost a son in Iraq.

Your embrace of Ms. Sheehan is as transparent as it is shallow. Because she shares your pov, you defend her.[/quote}

Damned right I defend her pov.

Had she set up a little shack and sign supporting Bush, I am certain you would be ridiculing her... or sliming her to use your term... just as you do other people who don't agree with you.

Once again, you're talking out of your ***.

Since you are now talking to me... where is my pass? You know, the one you "absolutely" give out. Just curious...

Why do you think you're entitled to a pass? Did your son or daughter die in Iraq? That's how you get the pass.

Until that happens,you're just one more rightie mouthpiece.

 

[ThAnswr]

Oh, now you're comparing yourself to Jesus? Jesus probably wouldn't judge her or call her inane.

Keep it up Joe, show everyone what a hypocrite you are.

Bingo! Sooner or later, they get smoked out of their holes.

 

[BuckNaked]

Until that happens,you're just one more rightie mouthpiece.

Well at least you cleared that up! If one is speaking from the liberal perspective, then all is well, and all opinions are reached as a result of deep and independent thought. If not, then one is nothing more than a "rightie mouthpiece", spouting the party line.

I'm truly surprised, ThAnswr. I really thought you were more open minded than that.