boys in toilets

[SueM in MN]

Figaro, thank you for your kind words about this board and the people who make it a good place to come.

I also have read (and responded to) the Debate Board thread about handicapped toilets. It's very sad to read some of the comments. It all boils to to the fact that the larger stalls/companion restrooms are beneficial to a group of people and necessary to another group of people. Because they are a limited commodity, who uses them has become an issue.
Personally, I have no choice when I'm in the bathroom with my DD because we don't fit anywhere else. I know there are people like my FIL (it hurts to watch him get up from a chair ) who would benefit from using the handicapped stall, but there is NO WAY he will use it because he is too afraid of what people will think. That's sad.

 

[JudithM]

A disability is a disability and they come in all shapes and sizes. Please be respectful of that. Let us not make anyone feel that their or their child's disability is any less than someone else's. Just my opinion. [/B]

Very well said - thank you! I have learned a lot since I was diagnosed with a knee condition a couple of years ago. I have also learned a lot of helpful information from people on this board. I am one of the people who does not look disabled/handicapped/whatever, but I do often use a handicapped rest room.

 

[ToriLammy]

Originally posted by Figaro
>

I have pretty much decided not to dress up for MNSSHP, as some parents (not here) have told me that they did not want their children seeing a Disney Princess in a wheelchair, as they felt it would be upsetting to the children.

I think you should reconsider the costume for MNSSHP. I don't understand why parents can't explain to the children that you aren't the real "princess" any more than they are when they put on a costume. Children understand playing "dress up" and are normally much more accepting than their parents are.

Would also love to know "where" these parents are that told you that so I could pay a visit.

Which princess were you going to go as?

 

[Talking Hands]

Figaro dress up if that is what you want to do. If the parents can't explain too bad. Sorry but I have no sympathy with them.
Try me as a clown with a cane or a wheelchair. And I will be face painting the kids in SPED at school.
Btw we had a parent complain about the SPED dressing for Halloween. Our principal at the time told the parent that the SPED kids had just as much right to dress up and the only way that they would not be allowed to dress up was if no one in the school was allowed. Everyone dressed up including teachers.

 

[Figaro]

ToriLammy, it was mothers on another internet board I participate in who didn't think I should dress up. I had been planning on Cinderella (who else at Disney World?) (smile), but it really isn't worth the possibility of upseting a child.

I go to Disney World to get away from some of the hassles in the "real" world, not to have more problems. Lately there seems to be a change in attitudes about people with disabilities (sigh). I think Sue nailed it when she said that it is a convenience for some and a necessity for others, with people truly believing that their convenience is as important as someone elses necessity.

For some reason, I seem to attract people who feel the need to tell me that they were awful about handicap access until they needed it themselves. Not sure why (smile), but I have had more than one person come up and tell me how sorry they were for the way they acted towards the disabled before they "joined" our select group.

Now back to talking and sharing about how we and others can have truly magical trips to Walt Disney World(smile).

 

[SueM in MN]

I was surprized to find that there were people who thought that handicapped accessible toilets didn't exist at all before 1990! And that a lot of non-disabled people don't understand the inconvenience of having to plan where you go and how long you can stay there depending on what facilities are available.
One thing I have noticed is that a lot of bathrooms don't have any indication outside of the stall to say it is wheelchair accessible. Those of us who need it are aware of the "cues": the door opens out instead of in, the stall might appear longer or wider. But some of those who didn't realize that handicapped stalls existed probably don't even realize they are in one.
Also, something I've seen recently is grab bars installed in a few regular stalls - usually near the wheelchair accessible stalls. But without any marking on the stall (and doors that open the regular way), people like my FIL or JudithM who could really use those stalls don't even know they exist except by accident.

I've met lots of nice people on this board and I agree with Figaro that what I want out of WDW is a happy time for my family and to help everyone else share what we can to help others have a magical time too.

PS. I think you should dress up, Figaro. If a child can't understand about dress up at a Halloween party, they will see a lot of things more disturbing to them than a Cinderella in a wheelchair. My youngest DD's favorites are Cinderella and Ariel. My oldest DD IS Tinkerbell, so I feel I need to send some pixie dust your way. I'm sure Tinkerbell won't mind.

 

[MichelleC]

Figaro!!!

My mom is in a w/c due to MS. I'm reading these boards becuase we're all going to WDW with her.

I really hope you dress up at the party!! Who cares what those moronic parents have to say?? You will be educating the
kids, or maybe forcing their parents to actually talk to them about how everyone is different, has different abilities, etc. Dress up, be proud and have fun!! THAT alone will have a very positive impact on any child. As someone said before, kids are more accepting. I'm venturing to guess it won't bother any child.

Have fun!!!

Michelle

 

[poopie]

You should dress up, no matter what anyone says, it's the real world and people shouldn't thinh they need to protect their kids from everything. I'm sure it the adults that have more of a problem than the children.

A note on handicapped bathroom stalls, I have just started using them, though I do not look handicaped, I have a handicap.

I have crohns disease and had to have part of my intestines removed including the valve that controls the release of "stuff" into the colon. So when I have to go, I really have to go. If I go into a bathroom with a line I no longer hesitate to run for the handicapped stall or the companion bathroom. I have never had anyone say anything to me. I came to this decision after many near and not so near misses.

Please keep in mind that not all handicaps are visable.

 

[Talking Hands]

Poopie,
I wish you good luck. On my recent trip I had to wait everytime for a handicapped stall. Not once was there an open one. Always they were occupied by a mother and her child or children. And they definitely took their own good time about using it. I finally blew my top the last day when a very able bodied mother and her child took a good 10 minutes to use the stall and I ended up soiling myself. There were 2 handicapped stalls, the larger one which she had taken over and a smaller one which my wheelchair would not fit in. I let her have it. Her only comment was it is more comfortable. Sorry but if you can use a regular stall or even the slightly larger handicapped stall, the big one should be left for those who don't have that option. BTW there were plenty of non-handicapped stalls available and the parks were not crowded at all.
On one occasion the mother actually raced in front of my wheelchair and grabbed the handicapped stall before I could get to it. To get there ahead of her would have meant running over her child.

 

[poopie]

to hear that you have run into so many rude people. I have never had that problem. I was only referring that I use the handicap satll if no other's are open or if I have such an emergency that I must get in and throw my stuff down adn go. Sometimes I don't even have time to shut the door. I would NEVER run in front of someone in a wheel chair to get to the handicaped stall, I only use them when necessary. With my situation I am VERY aware of where all the bathrooms are and I tend to try to get to the non busy ones.

Rachael

 

[Michie]

I have been reading this very wonderful board for the last few months, but this thread actually prompted me to register.

I read Talking Hands post about her bad experience of waiting while a mother and child were occupying a handicap stall. I am a mother who uses the handicap stalls but only when I use the facilities. The reason is because some regular stalls are not large enough to accommodate a mother and child. There is only one store to shop at in the town in which I live. Now I was just there this morning and out of curiosity I did measure the space. ( I am also one of those mothers who carries a tape measure). From the front of the toilet to the stall door is 14 inches, from stall wall to stall wall is 25 inches. Then take in the consideration you have a purse hanging on the door and the feminine products trash can on the wall, and a toddler, that is very little space. I am about 5-3 and weigh about 120 pounds, so I am not an overly large person, and my 3 year old is of average size so I don't think I am being irrational when I say that is just too darn small!! Now we do have using the handicap stalls down to a science. Like I said, we only use those stalls when I am in need of the facilities. We just don't close the door on the regular stalls when my daughter needs to go. We get in, we get out. 30 seconds at the most. And we try and use the restrooms at the back of the stores because they tend to be less busy and cleaner. So please keep in mind if you see a mother and child using a handicap stall, it may be due to the fact that a regular stall is just too darn small! But I do feel like they should get in, get out like we do.

I did read SueM's post about people using handicap stalls to change clothes, and I do agree that is very rude and inconsiderate. I do travel a lot. And I have been in many airport bathrooms in which the regular stalls are just too small for me to bring in my bag(s), and I do not feel comfortable leaving my bag outside the stall even for a minute. So I do use airport handicap stalls when need be for that reason and that reason only. It is just common sense anymore not to leave your bag unattended for any amount of time. So please keep in mind when you see somebody using a handicap stall in the airport who you think shouldn't be, that maybe they are just doing that because of security issues.

I just love this board!!!

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks for your thoughts.
One of the problems is that there are not enough bathroom stalls in many places. The ones that are there are just not very big. If everyone was considerate in their use of bathroom stalls, this thread would not have gone on for 3 pages.

 

[Figaro]

Sue, what do you think would happen if Disney put a sign on the wheelchair accessible stalls and companion restrooms that said something like: "Disabled individuals first?"

That would give the people that must have a "rule" a rule to follow and would encourage everyone to be more sensitive about using or spending significant amounts of time in the only stall that handicapped individuals can use. I've written WDW about this, but haven't received anything back from them yet.

I find that when I explain to people the difference between a "necessity" and "convenience" most people seem to finally understand what I am talking about(smile).

 

[SueM in MN]

I think it certainly wouldn't hurt.
I think some people actually use them without realizing that they are in a handicapped stall. Those of us who are looking for it know the cues; on the end of the row, door swings out, door may be wider. I am not sure that other people always know that they are going into a handicapped stall. I know for sure that some people don't. They are just looking for a door to open and they go in. I think even just putting a wheelchair symbol on the door might improve things.

 

[MsDisney23]

ok here is my take on this. For starter's I have used the Hanidicap stall, sure I walk out and I do not look handicap, but it does give me more room to check my blood sugar and take my insulin. Some people do not understand how hard it can be to find a place close and handy to do this. The regular stall does not give one enough room to move, sure to tinkle. hee hee.

Now for any parent that wants to take their son in the ladies room, what is the big deal, there are doors on the stalls. I have seen young boys in there with their mom's and there never seemed to be a problem. Come on these are our children. Now I can see a healthy 16year old boy in there......lol

let's not be so fast to judge, yes we all know that there are people out there that abuse the system, and makes it very hard for the ones who do need it........

 

[MsDisney23]

Get those boys out of those dan toilet's dry them off and get them into the bathroom.....

Sorry just had to add that, i heard that in The Horseshoe Jamboree show, the comedian said you can always spot a person from London, the are forever asking where the toilets are. His answer , dah in the bathroom....

sorry just some humor.......

 

[Talking Hands]

Ms Disney you actually do your blood sugar and take your insulin in the bathroom. Yuck. I would never do that. It is much to filthy on those bathrooms even the handicapped ones. plus you have to find a bathrrom everytime you eat and then hope the food comes fast enough. I do mine discretely at the table just before I start eating.

 

[MsDisney23]

Hey Talking Hands, I use an insulin pump now , and I love it. I have a remote control, now I just hit it, and there is the insulin, No more shot's. Also it is kinda hard to give insulin when it is cold out. you have to remove some clothing to expose the skin! I was wondering where you use the bathroom?? Maybe you could share with the rest of us. I was not aware that Disney had a special "EXTRA CLEAN" bathroom.

 

[adisneyfan2]

I'm one of those (evil?) moms who sometimes uses a handicapped stall with two kids. I'm sure I take longer than a single user would take too. But maybe there is more to this than meets the eye....

I agree with all the comments above about safety & security issues, and they are part of why I use these stalls. The other part is that my DS, who looks very "normal" is autistic, and believe it or not, can't always manage the simple things -- like unzipping or pulling pants down, etc. -- especially under stress (like when he really has to go!) We returned from WDW last week. On more than one occasion, we had to come out from a "regular" stall, and wait for a larger one, because we couldn't physically manage in a smaller stall.

I am sympathetic to those in WCs who have no other options (in terms of stalls), & I certainly would never want to cause anyone else to have an accident. But let's remember that not all disabilities are visible! Although he is still a child, and an autistic one, he too would be mortified and uncomfortable to have an "accident".

IMHO, signs on handicapped doors probably wouldn't help. Those who are inconsiderate enough to use them "just because" probably won't change their ways over a sign. (Just look around at the handicapped parking spaces -- especially in lousy weather!) And who would "police" these stalls, and determine whose needs are legitimate and whose aren't? Would that mean that because my son's disability is not visible we would have to keep going to the back of the line any time someone in a WC comes in behind us? Or as suggested elsewhere, shoud I put a sticker on my DS so everyone can "see" that he too has a disability??

In the end, I think we all have to remember to do our best to try to be considerate of everyone around us, regardless of apparent abilities or disabilities.

 

[Talking Hands]

Ms Disney, I use any bathroom for it's purpose. To go to the bathroom. I will not use it to test and take my insulin. Not clean enough for that. Btw. you do not have to expose any skin to inject insulin. Just shot through the clothing. At least in Florida we rarely wear anything thick enough to cause a problem. You learn a few tricks when you have had this disease for 25 years.
Would love a pump but my HMO won't authorize it.