BOULDER RIDGE VILLAS & COPPER CREEK VILLAS & CABINS: Wilderness Lodge DVC Expansion Thread

[Lisa P.]

Interesting points. Thanks for sharing more about why so many people are concerned and anticipating this new approach, having two completely separate DVC associations co-existing on a single resort property. I guess we'll all be curious to see how it goes. It's always been such a beautiful resort.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Interesting points. Thanks for sharing more about why so many people are concerned and anticipating this new approach, having two completely separate DVC associations co-existing on a single resort property. I guess we'll all be curious to see how it goes. It's always been such a beautiful resort.

Another thing I didn't mention last night is that when THV points went on sale/THV was added to Saratoga, the pricing of the points (Phase 4) was very similar -- Saratoga started at $98 in Phase 1, and Phase 4 was ~$105 per point, a fairly normal increase over years. as the Saratoga points cost, they were close together, having the same RTU made sense.

VWL was announced in 1998, opened in 2000. VWL points started at $98, and sold out at $101. Again, normal price growth over time; they've done the same with PVB and Aualni, both of which are selling higher than they were at introduction by a few dollars.

Likelihood of C3V points being less than $150pp is really really low. Resale points at VWL are running $85-100 pp, depending on contract size (smaller contracts = higher per point cost). So there's a huge gap.

The gap of both time and cost is not insignificant. The Saratoga expansion was tight financially and in time, by compare.

 

[sleepydog25]

Likelihood of C3V points being less than $150pp is really really low. Resale points at VWL are running $85-100 pp, depending on contract size (smaller contracts = higher per point cost). So there's a huge gap.

$175. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

$175. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

It would be absolutely appalling, but not at all surprising.

18 years and an $80 point gap is a lot larger on both fronts than Saratoga's add-on, for sure.

 

[viper17d]

Likelihood of C3V points being less than $150pp is really really low. Resale points at VWL are running $85-100 pp, depending on contract size (smaller contracts = higher per point cost). So there's a huge gap.

The gap of both time and cost is not insignificant. The Saratoga expansion was tight financially and in time, by compare.

Agreed that the gap is significant. Because of that, IF Disney were to go down the far-fetched plan I'm talking about, they would, at some point, start picking up ROFR at will. That would keep buyers from accessing the VWL resale market, but it would slightly prop up prices for sellers until the official announcement is made and the properties are somehow combined.

With the ROFR and cutting off incidental benefits, DVD has a ton of ways to manipulate or close the market. Sellers can still sell their properties, but Disney will always have the ROFR to kill a resale market and snatch up inventory before a potential re-branding.

Again, not saying this will happen, but it is one way to address the gap. If we don't see Disney starting to be active in ROFR for VWL, we'll know they are not going this absurd route.

 

[Granny]

So I guess my question, then, is - how do you know it will be separate? Is there an official announcement out there I haven't seen? Do you know someone with inside information?

Essentially, what is this based on outside of conjecture on these boards? If it's set in stone, then you're right, my post makes no sense - I just didn't realize it was determined...

Here is Disney' official press release:

DISNEY VACATION CLUB ANNOUNCES PLANNED DEVELOPMENT PROJECT AT DISNEY’S WILDERNESS LODGE

Celebration, Fla. (September 22, 2015) – Today, Disney Vacation Club announced its next planned project will be at Disney’s Wilderness Lodge, located on Bay Lake at Walt Disney World Resort.

The planned project at Disney’s Wilderness Lodge, when completed, will be the 14th Disney Vacation Club development and the second at Disney’s Wilderness Lodge. Current plans call for the resort to feature deluxe accommodations, including waterfront cabins. In addition to the Disney Vacation Club project, other guest areas within Disney’s Wilderness Lodge are scheduled to undergo substantial enhancements and refurbishment, including new recreation and food and beverage options. More information and project details will be shared at a later date.
​

The bolding emphasis was added by me. To me, it is very clear that the new construction at WL will be a separate resort (not just a "development"). So for better or worse (I think better), VWL and the new DVC resort will be completely separate. If someone wants to say that the word "development" puts some grey into the matter, so be it. They had to put some noun in there since there is only one Disney Vacation Club.

I don't see any way that Disney would even want to combine these two resorts. I think the new CCCV (or whatever it is named) will have enough going for it to sell on its own against existing VWL resales. Access to booking the centerpiece cabins, nice lake and pool views, possibly upgraded villas (with the extra bathroom and/or sleeper chair), and of course a contract length twice as long as VWL. If I'm selling CCCV, I think I can talk most people into seeing why CCCV would be worth at least twice the price of VWL.

 

[viper17d]

Please read the rest of the posts by me and others about that press release. It is far more vague and open than previous DVC announcement press releases. As much as you or anyone might believe without a doubt in your interpretation of that press release, my whole point in this discussion is based on that sliver of gray area.

 

[sleepydog25]

If the argument is that there is a remote possibility that DVC could opt to combine both the old and new resorts because there has been no official, set in stone announcement then, one would have to agree in theory. It's an interesting discussion; however, an equally valid point that is also part of this discussion is the original idea that such a move by DVC isn't likely to happen. However, DVC isn't releasing any definitive word (I've read that they can't legally do so yet though others know more of that issue than I), so all arguments currently are moot.

 

[Grumpy247365]

Pardon my ignorance, but if the lobby elevators are closed, where are the working elevators? I've never used any other than the ones in the lobby.

Thanks.

 

[denisekayt]

VWL was announced in 1998, opened in 2000. VWL points started at $98, and sold out at $101. Again, normal price growth over time; they've done the same with PVB and Aualni, both of which are selling higher than they were at introduction by a few dollars.

Likelihood of C3V points being less than $150pp is really really low. Resale points at VWL are running $85-100 pp, depending on contract size (smaller contracts = higher per point cost). So there's a huge gap.

The gap of both time and cost is not insignificant. The Saratoga expansion was tight financially and in time, by compare.

Uh, VWL started out at $70pp, not $98. The resale contract we purchased was sold to the original owner at $70pp, sold by resale to the 2nd owner for $72pp, and we are the third owners and paid $73pp (got in right before the market went up, yay!).

I don't have any info on what the direct pricing was when VWL sold out.

 

[denisekayt]

Pardon my ignorance, but if the lobby elevators are closed, where are the working elevators? I've never used any other than the ones in the lobby.

Thanks.

They are down just past Roaring Forks quick service.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Uh, VWL started out at $70pp, not $98. The resale contract we purchased was sold to the original owner at $70pp, sold by resale to the 2nd owner for $72pp, and we are the third owners and paid $73pp (got in right before the market went up, yay!).

I don't have any info on what the direct pricing was when VWL sold out.

Sorry, the first source I'd looked at had the wrong price. I've now actually found the initial to be $67. Nonetheless, it just widens the gap between original VWL points cost direct and "modern" direct points cost, which was the bulk of the point.

 

[Grumpy247365]

They are down just past Roaring Forks quick service.

Thank you very much. Makes sense since the other side of the resort is closed. I was thinking of bringing my duffel bag, but I will definitely bring my rolling suitcase. Again, thank you.

 

[denisekayt]

Here is Disney' official press release:

The planned project at Disney’s Wilderness Lodge, when completed, will be the 14th Disney Vacation Club development and the second at Disney’s Wilderness Lodge. ​

I actually think the 2nd half of that sentence is more telling....it's saying this resort will be the second DVC at Wilderness Lodge. If it was a combined DVC there would still be only 1 DVC at Wilderness Lodge.

 

[denisekayt]

Sorry, the first source I'd looked at had the wrong price. I've now actually found the initial to be $67. Nonetheless, it just widens the gap between original VWL points cost direct and "modern" direct points cost, which was the bulk of the point.

Agreed!

 

[Granny]

Please read the rest of the posts by me and others about that press release. It is far more vague and open than previous DVC announcement press releases. As much as you or anyone might believe without a doubt in your interpretation of that press release, my whole point in this discussion is based on that sliver of gray area.

I did read them, I guess I didn't see the sliver of gray area. But actually, I liked your posts and theories about what might happen if they combined the two resorts. Conjecture and "what ifs" are fun to discuss, and I was in no way trying to downplay your discussion points. I just think the release is pretty clear.

I actually think the 2nd half of that sentence is more telling....it's saying this resort will be the second DVC at Wilderness Lodge. If it was a combined DVC there would still be only 1 DVC at Wilderness Lodge.

I agree, "the second" DVC is even stronger evidence that CCCV will be a separate resort. Nicely done!

 

[Anna114]

I don't know about everyone else but I'm thrilled they are to be separate. The reason we purchased VWL is because we love the separate building. I was concerned that bringing in more people would greatly diminish the villas availability. I was also worried that the point structure would change (sadly I'm not as up on our contract as I should be so I don't know what limitations are put on Disney as to the change in point structure) I am disappointed that the coziness of the villas will be gone. My husband and I will wait and see how this all plays out.

 

[viper17d]

I did read them, I guess I didn't see the sliver of gray area. But actually, I liked your posts and theories about what might happen if they combined the two resorts. Conjecture and "what ifs" are fun to discuss, and I was in no way trying to downplay your discussion points. I just think the release is pretty clear.

I agree, "the second" DVC is even stronger evidence that CCCV will be a separate resort. Nicely done!

Thanks! Yeah, the sliver of gray area was the word "development" - not so much "property" or "resort" as was the case in the Poly announcement. Also, I think the word "expansion" is somewhere in that press release. I'm not arguing that it seems fairly clear and straightforward - based on the headache of combining them, it also makes sense that they'd be separate.

I'm pretty sure I started this whole thing because I shared this concern (the prevailing theory on these boards that they'll be separate creating two classes of DVC ownership at WL) with one of the DVC sales people a week ago regarding purchasing VWL from them at $160/pt. Granted, it's his job to sell, but he said unequivocally "I can't tell you specifics, but a lot of what you said and have read on the message boards is wrong and not set yet."

Take that with a grain of salt, but I wanted to explore the alternatives to what many people here think is undoubtedly the case. I thought this whole conversation has been interesting!

 

[twinklebug]

I don't know about everyone else but I'm thrilled they are to be separate. The reason we purchased VWL is because we love the separate building. I was concerned that bringing in more people would greatly diminish the villas availability. I was also worried that the point structure would change (sadly I'm not as up on our contract as I should be so I don't know what limitations are put on Disney as to the change in point structure) I am disappointed that the coziness of the villas will be gone. My husband and I will wait and see how this all plays out.

I like that they will be apart too, because I would scream if I ended up with the horrid roof top view from over the front desk as I did the one and only time I stayed as a hotel guest. (Love to sit on the balcony with my coffee in the morning.)

I'm pretty sure I started this whole thing because I shared this concern (the prevailing theory on these boards that they'll be separate creating two classes of DVC ownership at WL) with one of the DVC sales people a week ago regarding purchasing VWL from them at $160/pt. Granted, it's his job to sell, but he said unequivocally "I can't tell you specifics, but a lot of what you said and have read on the message boards is wrong and not set yet."

Take that with a grain of salt, but I wanted to explore the alternatives to what many people here think is undoubtedly the case. I thought this whole conversation has been interesting!

Taken with a pound of salt Keep in mind the sales force is not informed of the decisions until all the legalities have been worked out, contract wording is set and they're getting everything ramped up to sell. I believe that CCC is no where near ready to sell yet. Curious, Was this person at a kiosk or in the main sales center?

 

[viper17d]

Taken with a pound of salt Keep in mind the sales force is not informed of the decisions until all the legalities have been worked out, contract wording is set and they're getting everything ramped up to sell. I believe that CCC is no where near ready to sell yet. Curious, Was this person at a kiosk or in the main sales center?

The person had given us a tour of Poly and we have been going back and forth through email. A pound of salt is fair, haha! He's a salesman that likely doesn't have all of the facts and it's not like he even hinted they would be combined (since he didn't get anywhere near specifics). But yeah, he did say that was a long way off anyway (trying to get me to buy now).

Either way, I went resale, so he wasn't too happy with me in the end... Sorry, couldn't justify paying 2x more upfront for a resort with only 25 years left!