BOULDER RIDGE VILLAS & COPPER CREEK VILLAS & CABINS: Wilderness Lodge DVC Expansion Thread

[Flossbolna]

After reading the DIS about DVC for so many years, there have been so many incidents of information being spread by sales people that was incorrect. I even experienced it myself when I attended one of the sales events on a DCL ship. Not the member celebration, but the events for those who might be interested to buy in. We were told that DVC members would be getting great discounts for the cruise fare on DCL, you just needed to check regularly and see which sailings the discount would apply to. This is just plain wrong, there have been one or two instances when they did indeed offer discounts for DVC members and they were nice discounts, but to say that discounts like that happen all the time as this sales person did, is just plain wrong.

I have to say that after this experience of a sales event I would most likely not bought DVC as it was so off putting. The whole event was about how as a parent you need to ensure that your kids have magical vacations and you can only do that by buying DVC. They also pushed several times the idea that you could just put your downpayment on your credit card. And they really touted the options of cruising with your DVC points and using the points for ABD. Both really not good uses for your points and on top of that, in order to take your family on an ABD trip on points, you most likely need to buy something like 600 points or so!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

FWIW, the DVC guides do not get insider information in advance of public disclosure. It's absolutely and totally illegal if they do, and Disney is quite good at staying legal.

Anything the DVC guides say in advance of public announcement is rumor.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

Forgive me if this has already been asked. Do we think that current owners will be able to extend their points to a new expiry date like they did at OKW and then use the new offering or this impossible because of allocation of units and points? Sorry if a stupid question.

 

[hebbynan]

The person had given us a tour of Poly and we have been going back and forth through email. A pound of salt is fair, haha! He's a salesman that likely doesn't have all of the facts and it's not like he even hinted they would be combined (since he didn't get anywhere near specifics). But yeah, he did say that was a long way off anyway (trying to get me to buy now).

Either way, I went resale, so he wasn't too happy with me in the end... Sorry, couldn't justify paying 2x more upfront for a resort with only 25 years left!

Wait -the salesman was trying to sell you points for VWL through Disney. Is that correct? I thought there was a waiting list for VWL contracts? And these are the contracts that Disney takes during ROFR correct?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Wait -the salesman was trying to sell you points for VWL through Disney. Is that correct? I thought there was a waiting list for VWL contracts? And these are the contracts that Disney takes during ROFR correct?

You can sometimes buy "retired" resorts via ROFR points direct from Disney, especially if you do a "now or I walk" with a guide.

Forgive me if this has already been asked. Do we think that current owners will be able to extend their points to a new expiry date like they did at OKW and then use the new offering or this impossible because of allocation of units and points? Sorry if a stupid question.

Some people are spitballing on the subject, but my suspicion is no. The OKW extension did not go as planned and has created some longer-term headaches for DVD that I don't know that they want to risk again. Merging the two resorts (VWL and C3V) is a material change to the ownership of VWL and has some very specific rules under Florida condo and timeshare laws. Offering an extension (even free) is another material change.

 

[Flossbolna]

ome people are spitballing on the subject, but my suspicion is no. The OKW extension did not go as planned and has created some longer-term headaches for DVD that I don't know that they want to risk again. Merging the two resorts (VWL and C3V) is a material change to the ownership of VWL and has some very specific rules under Florida condo and timeshare laws. Offering an extension (even free) is another material change.

Yes, I am in the camp of not even wanting a free extension! I will be over 70 when VWL expires. I live in Germany. I can see that when I am that old I am not up to regular trips across the Atlantic anymore (hopefully I am, but I am not counting on it). So, for me this works out fine that I won't have to think about what to do with my points anymore then. I don't want to have the hassle of selling my points as that involves all kind of nasty things with the tax office (because I am a foreigner) and then the lack of double tax treaty with the US. I also don't have any kids (and am not planning to add any to my life). So, for me the expiration year works well. This was actually one of my considerations when I was thinking of where to buy. So, even something that looks good (free points) might not be so good for everyone.

 

[sleepydog25]

Forgive me if this has already been asked. Do we think that current owners will be able to extend their points to a new expiry date like they did at OKW and then use the new offering or this impossible because of allocation of units and points? Sorry if a stupid question.

Not a stupid question and your timing is impeccable. Go back three pages or so in this thread and there begins a rather lively discussion on this very topic. In sum, while technically possible, the likelihood of it happening is generally regarded as poor.

 

[viper17d]

Wait -the salesman was trying to sell you points for VWL through Disney. Is that correct? I thought there was a waiting list for VWL contracts? And these are the contracts that Disney takes during ROFR correct?

Yeah, we were put on a wait list and when 100 points "came in" we started asking him a number of tough questions that he largely ignored. He clearly wasn't a fan of these boards, and I generally didn't believe him - but it got me thinking starting this whole lively discussion!

I haven't seen any ROFR taken on VWL lately, so I doubt it was those kind of points - obviously, though, these boards don't get 100% of the ROFR information

 

[mrsap]

Where did the comment on the names come from? Again, I didn't see an actual press release to that effect. I saw the news story written based on the name - I believe the name to be accurate (it sounds Disney and makes sense), but without official word, how could you possibly be so certain?

It is equally likely that someone overheard the name and ran with the story to get it out there. The name, rather than the name of the "new DVC property" could be the re-branding and re-engineering of the existing DVC property in light of the massive renovation.

Let's put it this way, if you're Disney and you pour $100 million into renovating Wilderness Lodge adding a ton of DVC capacity, you're not going to leave the name of the place "Villas at Wilderness Lodge" - you're going to re-brand and re-launch.

With regard to the name on the old owners contracts, if Disney offers a "free" extension, they can also amend the contracts to reflect the new name. Owners still have to opt-in, Disney can't unilaterally change the contracts, but a "free" extension is incentive enough for existing owners to say yes. Also, isn't VWL the smallest DVC property with the least inventory? The hit to the bottom line by doing this would be marginal in the grand scheme of things. Additionally, being able to subsequently execute the ROFR on all of the resales and re-brand and re-sell that inventory as Copper Creek is far more valuable than the pittance they'd get if they did a paid extension.

I'm not saying this is the most likely outcome - I'm just asking what concrete evidence from Disney do we have that goes against this possible eventuality? Please, play along here - I know this entire message board is staunchly against this possibility...

Just saw this...

http://www.wdwmagic.com/resorts/dis...derness-lodge-and-renames-existing-villas.htm

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Sounds like two condo associations to me!

 

[viper17d]

Sounds like two condo associations to me!

Sure does! Also sounds like they are changing the name on the existing contracts away from VWL.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Sure does! Also sounds like they are changing the name on the existing contracts away from VWL.

A name change is a non-material change, unless they change the name to "The Nuclear Waste Dump at Wilderness Lodge."

 

[hebbynan]

Thanks viper17d. DH and I are discussing the possibility of buying in at the Wilderness Lodge. We are going to tour with DVC on our February 2017 trip. Hopefully things will be more "concrete" by then.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

Not a stupid question and your timing is impeccable. Go back three pages or so in this thread and there begins a rather lively discussion on this very topic. In sum, while technically possible, the likelihood of it happening is generally regarded as poor.

Thank you for not making me feel silly! I will check that out. How kind.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

You can sometimes buy "retired" resorts via ROFR points direct from Disney, especially if you do a "now or I walk" with a guide.



Some people are spitballing on the subject, but my suspicion is no. The OKW extension did not go as planned and has created some longer-term headaches for DVD that I don't know that they want to risk again. Merging the two resorts (VWL and C3V) is a material change to the ownership of VWL and has some very specific rules under Florida condo and timeshare laws. Offering an extension (even free) is another material change.

Thank you for your reply. Sounds like a whole world of pain! I did not realise that the OKW extension had issues. How interesting.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I am finding this thread so interest and you are all so nice and helpful. Thank you. We stayed at VWL at Christmas ;0( owners at SSR and VGF ) and fell in love. We would really like to add on. It is still a strange thought from everything I have learnt to know about our DVC membership the concept of having two DVC offerings in one place! At SSR they have flexibility that should something go wrong i.e rooms not available, double booked etc they can move folks around. I wonder if they can make these 'sister resorts' and do that? Or would it be like booking SSR and them saying sorry your room isn't availiable we are offering you OKW instead... Complicated! Actually that did happen to us once! They double booked the accessible room.

I hope they do offer accessible studios at the new offering.

 

[dalmatian7]

Does anyone have any thoughts on what size rooms they are converting to in the Lodge? I stayed at the Poly before they converted the building to DVC and personally the new room configuration seems silly to me. Why would I want only one bed and one pull out, but two bathrooms? We are only a family of three but I would not like having to pull out a couch every night. I am guessing they will add some grand villas because the VWL only go up to a two bedroom unit? I wonder if it will be an all new design in some configuration? I have always felt the WL was a hidden gem in the Deluxe category.... and now it seems Disney has figured this out too.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Does anyone have any thoughts on what size rooms they are converting to in the Lodge? I stayed at the Poly before they converted the building to DVC and personally the new room configuration seems silly to me. Why would I want only one bed and one pull out, but two bathrooms? We are only a family of three but I would not like having to pull out a couch every night. I am guessing they will add some grand villas because the VWL only go up to a two bedroom unit? I wonder if it will be an all new design in some configuration? I have always felt the WL was a hidden gem in the Deluxe category.... and now it seems Disney has figured this out too.

No announcements. They have to meet certain compliance rules before announcing anything.

 

[twinklebug]

No announcements. They have to meet certain compliance rules before announcing anything.

Doesn't stop us from trying to peek in the balcony doors to see what's happening though However, they did cover up the bottom two floors (Challenge accepted!)

 

[Anna114]

Thanks viper17d. DH and I are discussing the possibility of buying in at the Wilderness Lodge. We are going to tour with DVC on our February 2017 trip. Hopefully things will be more "concrete" by then.

Unless you want Copper Creek and the ability to books 11 months out I would seriously consider the secondary market. While prices are high right now, $80-$90's a point, it will still be better then The mid 100's price from Disney.