Blaming the victim...

[TheZue]

Wow, class really is a powerful thing in America. I'm really happy that you can do those things for your kids and that you can protect them so well. Your kids will have so many advantages in life, and that's great. But you do know that there are some people out there who don't have the means, the ability or the desire to take such good care of their kids. That's life. We have to accept it. Being angry will do nothing.

This has absolutely nothing to do with class. We are a single income family, guess how much my dh made up until about six months ago? $9/hour. We were living on $600 every two weeks. Fortunately our mortgage was only $500/month but that sill left us with $250 a week for all bills, food, gas, gifts, insurance, clothes etc....the LAST thing we would have been spending money on was freaking soft drinks for the kids. We were technically below the poverty line. We didn't even count for middle class. We got pamphlets from the government about how to shop for groceries on a limited budget. Nothing I said there has anything to do with wealth or class. And if they don't have the desire to take care of their kids to the bare minimum of standards of ensuring their PHYSICAL health the state needs to step in.

Had the parents even done one or two things I listed their kids teeth wouldn't be rotting out of their heads. Most of the things I listed don't cost a penny, just takes time. And again if you don't have time for your kids why do you even have them? If these kids can't make it through the gambit of figuring out what to drink how are they ever going to be able to make good choices in life?

The minute their lack of parenting skills starts to affect society as a whole either through increased regulations or higher priced goods due to lawsuits we don't have to accept it and have every right to be mad.

 

[luvmy3]

Okay lets say there is an addiction to mountain dew epidemic going on there, I have a radical idea. How about parents don't ket their kids have it anymore, how about schools don't let the kids have it anymore. I have a hard time believing anyone, even if they are "uneducated" or poor thinks soda is a good healthy choice. I know its a crazy thought to actually teach these children it is bad for them but my G** someone has to before its too late .
Just say no Appalachian people, just say no.


So, Mom isn't getting the kids ready, why because they are poor? I didn't realize poor people didn't get up in the morning and help their kids get ready and pack snacks and lunches. I guess they all just sleep all day

 

[Cool-Beans]

I live in a poor neighborhood and I see kids buy soda and other things all the time. Something you may not know about poor folks is this: the poorer a family is, the more likely the kids have to fend for themselves. I've seen kids that couldn't have been older than 8 or 9 staying out literally ALL NIGHT on their own.

I know that. The poor and the lazy send their kids out of the house and the kids have to go find something to eat. They'll work for it, schmooze (kid-style) for it, beg for it, steal it. BTDT, too.

But those kids can't afford to buy enough Mountain Dew on a regular basis to get addicted. Like I said, "in sufficient quantities."

But you're joking, aren't you? You have to be. I'd have asked in a PM, but you don't allow those.

 

[bluesaturn]

Ok people on this thread don't seem to understand. Some of us are not blaming Pepsi Co, and yet we still feel bad for these people. Not because MD is ruining their lives, but because it's sad that they have so much ignorance regarding oral care. Not that I think it's an excuse. But all you can do is educate them and hope for a change.

 

[Charade]

I'm all about personal responsibility. I don't believe that it is "someone else's fault." It is the fault of the guilty party. The guilty part in this case is Pepsi for loading up their product with an addictive drug and then selling it to kids.

Should MD be banned from the market? Should it be behind the counter with the cigarettes and you must be 18 to buy it? Should it come with a warning label?

When millions and millions of people can drink MD in moderation without the awful effects of MD mouth, it indicates those people are using the product responsibly.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Nah, I just want to ban the marketing to kids of stuff that kills them.

I knew it, I knew it, I KNEW IT! Called that one. I've thought you were quite a jokester for a while...but like I said, you don't allow the PMs. So, I have to say it on the boards.

I know you're putting us on. I got sucked into it before. I seriously thought you were a nutcase or a moron on one thread. And then it hit me: jokester.

FWIW, you are pretty funny.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

I know that. The poor and the lazy send their kids out of the house and the kids have to go find something to eat. They'll work for it, schmooze (kid-style) for it, beg for it, steal it. BTDT, too.

But those kids can't afford to buy enough Mountain Dew on a regular basis to get addicted. Like I said, "in sufficient quantities."

But you're joking, aren't you? You have to be. I'd have asked in a PM, but you don't allow those.

I'm not all self-righteous like my posts probably make me out to be, but I'm not joking either. I honestly believe that the kids are the victims here. In fact, in my opinion if one party is a kid, and the other party is an adult or a corporation, I assume that the kid is the victim. Sort of like statutory rape. Doesn't matter if the child "consent", society has deemed that adults having sex with kids is bad. I also think marketing harmful, addictive substances to kids is bad. THere are a good number of kids who have to fend for themselves in america. I'm not saying ban caffeinated soda, I'm just saying don't make commercials that are designed specifically to entice kids.

 

[TheZue]

Ok people on this thread don't seem to understand. Some of us are not blaming Pepsi Co, and yet we still feel bad for these people. Not because MD is ruining their lives, but because it's sad that they have so much ignorance regarding oral care. Not that I think it's an excuse. But all you can do is educate them and hope for a change.

This I totally agree with. I put the blame squarely on the parents, but if this is happening and these parents aren't stepping in the schools should to stop the cycle.

 

[SteveInBrooklyn]

I knew it, I knew it, I KNEW IT! Called that one. I've thought you were quite a jokester for a while...but like I said, you don't allow the PMs. So, I have to say it on the boards.

I know you're putting us on. I got sucked into it before. I seriously thought you were a nutcase or a moron on one thread. And then it hit me: jokester.

FWIW, you are pretty funny.

All that and a bit of a troll too. I don't know, that's what the internet has made me. I'm so different in real life. Sometimes I wonder who is the real me.

I'm surprised anybody even reads my posts, so thank you.

 

[cheermom1]

I'm not all self-righteous like my posts probably make me out to be, but I'm not joking either. I honestly believe that the kids are the victims here. In fact, in my opinion if one party is a kid, and the other party is an adult or a corporation, I assume that the kid is the victim. Sort of like statutory rape. Doesn't matter if the child "consent", society has deemed that adults having sex with kids is bad. I also think marketing harmful, addictive substances to kids is bad. THere are a good number of kids who have to fend for themselves in america. I'm not saying ban caffeinated soda, I'm just saying don't make commercials that are designed specifically to entice kids.

sorry I'm not buying it when the PARENT of that child is giving their child the pop or if that child's parent is letting that child fend for themselves b/c they don't have the desire to take care of that child or when the parent can just say no and if the child goes against their wishes then the child should be punished like with all things that child does that goes against the parents wishes just grabbing a soda when you tell them no. like I said before it is NOT the consumer companies job to raise the kids of America it's the jobs of the persons that had that child and if they can't or won't then cps should take over!!!!

 

[richmond282]

This has absolutely nothing to do with class. We are a single income family, guess how much my dh made up until about six months ago? $9/hour. We were living on $600 every two weeks. Fortunately our mortgage was only $500/month but that sill left us with $250 a week for all bills, food, gas, gifts, insurance, clothes etc....the LAST thing we would have been spending money on was freaking soft drinks for the kids. We were technically below the poverty line. We didn't even count for middle class. We got pamphlets from the government about how to shop for groceries on a limited budget. Nothing I said there has anything to do with wealth or class. And if they don't have the desire to take care of their kids to the bare minimum of standards of ensuring their PHYSICAL health the state needs to step in.

I beg to differ. This IS about socio economic class. Most of us "middle class" people, myself included, just can not fathom life a different way. These people don't have running water, so forget making tea. Not going to happen. A lot don't have electricity. so forget TV ads. They do live hand to mouth as previously stated. Just saying "go buy a toothbrush" is not going to fix the problem. The mind set of impoverished people has to be changed first. It's not an easy thing. This has been going on for generations. Mom's teeth are rotten. Grandma's teeth are rotten. Great-grandma's teeth are rotten. That's how it is.

I recommend reading the book "Framework for Understanding Poverty" by Ruby K. Payne for a true understanding of the mindset of different socio-economic groups and why they do what they do (middle class included.)

I don't think this really has anything to do with Mountain Dew, but it's more about not being educated.

 

[luvsJack]

Okay lets say there is an addiction to mountain dew epidemic going on there, I have a radical idea. How about parents don't ket their kids have it anymore, how about schools don't let the kids have it anymore. I have a hard time believing anyone, even if they are "uneducated" or poor thinks soda is a good healthy choice. I know its a crazy thought to actually teach these children it is bad for them but my G** someone has to before its too late .
Just say no Appalachian people, just say no.


So, Mom isn't getting the kids ready, why because they are poor? I didn't realize poor people didn't get up in the morning and help their kids get ready and pack snacks and lunches. I guess they all just sleep all day :confused3

Once again, you are seeing this from your perspective and not seeing it from anything outside of what you have been exposed to. I never said they sleep all day, by the way. Maybe she has to be at work befor the kids go to school, maybe she worked all night and is sleeping for a few hours, there could be many reasons.

One of the biggest things we see in the public schools here with the low income kids (and they are still head and shoulders in income above many of the people we are talking about) is that the kids are basically on their own. Maybe its because thats the way mom grew up, maybe its because she cannot be in more than one place at at time; but it is still there. My sister used to have kindergarten students who got themselves up, got themselves something to eat and got themselves off to school along with thier pre-K sister and brother; I can certainly imagine it to be that way and worse in that area.

Its not that there are not answers to problems like this, its just that when we look at it only from our own perspective we usually end up with solutions that are way to simplistic for what is really going on.

"Blame the parents"?? You could very well be blaming the one with the least amount of education. I wonder what the average level of education is for that area.

Sometimes there just isn't someone to blame. Not in the sense that they had a better choice and KNEW they had a better choice and still chose to do the wrong thing.

 

[cheermom1]

I beg to differ. This IS about socio economic class. Most of us "middle class" people, myself included, just can not fathom life a different way. These people don't have running water, so forget making tea. Not going to happen. A lot don't have electricity. so forget TV ads. They do live hand to mouth as previously stated. Just saying "go buy a toothbrush" is not going to fix the problem. The mind set of impoverished people has to be changed first. It's not an easy thing. This has been going on for generations. Mom's teeth are rotten. Grandma's teeth are rotten. Great-grandma's teeth are rotten. That's how it is.

I recommend reading the book "Framework for Understanding Poverty" by Ruby K. Payne for a true understanding of the mindset of different socio-economic groups and why they do what they do (middle class included.)

I don't think this really has anything to do with Mountain Dew, but it's more about not being educated.

i get what you are saying so WHY are people so quick to blame others why not just say this group got left behind and lets fix it instead of making someone like Pepsi the escape goat? but still think that the parents by this point should know that pop can't be good for you and tell their child no.

 

[Cool-Beans]

All that and a bit of a troll too. I don't know, that's what the internet has made me. I'm so different in real life. Sometimes I wonder who is the real me.

I'm surprised anybody even reads my posts, so thank you.

What's with the tag? Are you in jail?

 

[luvmy3]

Also, these kids are probably getting up by themselves and getting their ownself off to school. Mom isn't gettin up, making pancakes and packing a cute little lunch. Its a lot easier for the kid to grab a MD then to fill a thermos with something.

This is what you said, how do you know that this is the case?

Once again, you are seeing this from your perspective and not seeing it from anything outside of what you have been exposed to. I never said they sleep all day, by the way. Maybe she has to be at work befor the kids go to school, maybe she worked all night and is sleeping for a few hours, there could be many reasons.

Before you assume that I am seeing things from my point of view maybe you should know I grew up in a poor neighborhood, and we were not middle class. My mother walked me to school every morning, she worked the night shift, she was there every morning just like alot of my friends mother's. I was just wondering why you had made that broad assumption that these particular kids didn't have their mother's there with them in the morning

BTW I didn't have soda in my house growing up, it was a treat but not really until I was older. I also grew up without dental insurance and i didn't have rotten teeth either.

 

[arminnie]

It seems that so many are buying into the stereotypical image of the backwards, uneducated Appalachian hillbilly.

And think that they are pathetically unable to better themselves.

My paternal grandparents came from generations of the poorest in Appalachia. My grandfather was an unemployed coal miner who left his wife and 4 young (under 5 years old) children.

My grandmother then abandoned her children. They were taken in at a poor house. Do you have any clue how bottom of the bottom of the bottom a poor house in Appalachia was in the 1920s?

My father and his 3 siblings got very little education. My two aunts were basically illiterate. But they all worked hard to better themselves. While none were ever wealthy - they all held jobs and were productive members of society who owned homes and had savings. My generation has done even better.

 

[luvsJack]

This is what you said, how do you know that this is the case?




Before you assume that I am seeing things from my point of view maybe you should know I grew up in a poor neighborhood, and we were not middle class. My mother walked me to school every morning, she worked the night shift, she was there every morning just like alot of my friends mother's. I was just wondering why you had made that broad assumption that these particular kids didn't have their mother's there with them in the morning

BTW I didn't have soda in my house growing up, it was a treat but not really until I was older. I also grew up without dental insurance and i didn't have rotten teeth either.

Yes, I know what I said and don't think I tried to change it-I said "probably" not "definitly". I gave you reasons why the children may be getting themselves off to school. I did not say that I "know" they are getting themselves off to school. If you read my next post you may understand that I based that possibilty off of what I have seen with my own eyes and what my sister experienced with her students from low income households. The majority of these kids may have their mom there with them every morning cooking eggs and bacon; but I would bet my bottom dollar that a lot of them do not.

I am glad that your mother chose to walk you to school everyday. That is wonderful, but it does not mean that all working moms in poor neighborhoods do.

We never had soda in the house when I was a kid either nor did we when my boys were growing up. We do now but it is limited in what dd can drink.

 

[asta]

Why does Pepsi need to do anying? In my stores the soda is in the same aisle as the water. Its not like the water is hidden.

I am in no way arguing that Pepsi is obligated to do anything. What is really bothering about some of the posters on this thread is how quickly you are jumping into an area that you know nothing about and condeming the parents, teachers and children themselves. Just as some of the people of Appalachia are uninformed about dental hygiene, many of you are just as uninformed about the conditions that exist in Appalachia. I don't expect you to know about an area in which you have never lived but I always hope for more compassion than I am reading.

My reason for quoting the above post is that just because your local store stocks water as prominently as soft drinks, that does not mean that everywhere would stock their shelves the same. I would expect a good marketing manager to stock what is selling best. I also wonder if some of the lack of understanding may be due to age differences. I am fifty years old and I can tell you that in rural Tennessee forty years ago, it was not as easy to buy bottled water as it was to but soft drinks. Habits that were established then are probably hard to break. Many of my relatives drink soft drinks instead of coffee. I'm not saying that it is healthy, just that it is a habit ingrained in many people. I don't see that much difference between poor children mimicking adults drinking soft drinks and the wealthy children in my current community that spend loads of money on Starbucks concoctions.

 

[J.C.&ALI'SMOM]

I can understand where both sides are coming from. The lack of dental care as well as the ignorance running rampant through the appalachia area is more of the worry here. It is such a sad truth to see children living like that. They say there is equal opportunity for everyone born in the USA. All you have to do is travel into these forgotten places and wonder if that's true for these children...

I think they are just in a cycle of complete ignorance. That sounds harsh, but in some of these places it is like looking into the past. While the rest of the world has grown, expanded, and come into the future, they are stuck in the middle of nowhere with the same small minded ideas because no one is coming in to change that perception.

PBS had a wonderful documentary called Country Boys about two teens struggling to make a better life for themselves in Kentucky. It focused on the success of the David School, an alternative highschool for children who otherwise would have been tossed aside. It really opened my eyes to the situation.

The problem is, they don't. The parents don't know or care or understand the ramifications of these things. And the schools are no better. It is generation after generation stuck in this rut of ignorance.

Whoa! You seem to have watched "Country Boys" (which I saw as well) and run with it. Take a step back. That was the story of 2 young men from Eastern KY who had been dealt a horrible hand. They are not the norm in Appalachia. Not everyone has a dad in jail and is being raised by a nice older family friend, or has a family that is using you for your SSI money. The vast majority of people from Appalachia are better off than those kids.

It's the same with the folks from the mountains. I see so many of you blaming the parents. Please understand that these folks have almost zero education in most cases. Brushing their teeth! Seriously, many have no indoor running water and most have no indoor toilets. THEY DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER!! It's not their fault. We get so wrapped up in starving children in Africa or Chernobyl for that matter, we forget about our own children here in the US. And the mountain people are very proud and very suspicious, it's not easy to educate them, to tell them any different. It would be unusual for an adult to have any teeth by the time they're 50, that is NORMAL for them.

Most folks now have some education. Some might not have graduated from high school but they went to school for some amount of time. The vast majority of homes have running water and indoor toilets. Where do you all get this information! It is not normal for people from Appalachia to have no teeth My family members over 50, Mom, Dad, Aunts, Uncles, Husband, MIL (who is 80) all have their own teeth.

Has anyone seen the documentary from Rory Kennedy called American Hollow?
it follows a family from mudlick hollow in kentucky, it really opens the eyes to how poor the people of appalachia really are.
and how they really live.

Again, that was a documentary on one family who did lead a hard life due to generational poverty. One family, but you can watch that film and make the assumption of "how poor the people of Appalachia really are".

I beg to differ. This IS about socio economic class. Most of us "middle class" people, myself included, just can not fathom life a different way. These people don't have running water, so forget making tea. Not going to happen. A lot don't have electricity. so forget TV ads. They do live hand to mouth as previously stated. Just saying "go buy a toothbrush" is not going to fix the problem. The mind set of impoverished people has to be changed first. It's not an easy thing. This has been going on for generations. Mom's teeth are rotten. Grandma's teeth are rotten. Great-grandma's teeth are rotten. That's how it is.

I recommend reading the book "Framework for Understanding Poverty" by Ruby K. Payne for a true understanding of the mindset of different socio-economic groups and why they do what they do (middle class included.)

I don't think this really has anything to do with Mountain Dew, but it's more about not being educated.

AGAIN, the vast majority of people have electricity and running water.

Just as some of the people of Appalachia are uninformed about dental hygiene, many of you are just as uninformed about the conditions that exist in Appalachia. I don't expect you to know about an area in which you have never lived but I always hope for more compassion than I am reading.

My reason for quoting the above post is that just because your local store stocks water as prominently as soft drinks, that does not mean that everywhere would stock their shelves the same. I would expect a good marketing manager to stock what is selling best. I also wonder if some of the lack of understanding may be due to age differences. I am fifty years old and I can tell you that in rural Tennessee forty years ago, it was not as easy to buy bottled water as it was to but soft drinks. Habits that were established then are probably hard to break. Many of my relatives drink soft drinks instead of coffee. I'm not saying that it is healthy, just that it is a habit ingrained in many people. I don't see that much difference between poor children mimicking adults drinking soft drinks and the wealthy children in my current community that spend loads of money on Starbucks concoctions.

True, very true.


I just had to respond to this thread. I agree that people should be responsible for their child's dental care and are to be blamed for their rotten teeth from too much MD.

BUT, I think many of the posters are misinformed about life in Appalachia. I was born, raised, and live here. My family has been here for generations. There are very poor families and they do live in substandard housing. But that is not the norm. Most people work, attend school, watch TV, have internet access, just like you. I am personally offended that some of you would meet me, find out where I am from, and assume that I live in Third World conditions, have rotten teeth, and are uneducated. Yet, I'm sure some of you have passed us on one of our 16 trips to WDW and would not be able to distinguish us from any other guest.

BTW, I work in the public schools and none of them here allow anyone have soft drinks (we call it pop here, ya'll) unless it is a holiday party. My DH helps with the high school basketball concession stand and he said that they were surprised how much MD that they sold. I don't understand it, we have always been Coke people, lol.

 

[J.C.&ALI'SMOM]

What? You all are going to let me kill this thread? Hey, I was at work all day. You mean there are none of you left who want to refute my claims that Appalachian people are not all ignorant? Oh, come on.