Bargains

[Tigger1]

I do not agree with owners renting there points for profit on a regular basis. I thought we were only allowed to rent in the case if we werre going to lose our points that year. Maybe DVC should keep track of those who buy points just to make a profit.

Renters may not take as good care of the property we invested in. Who is responsible when something is broken or stolen?

I am glad I can let someone else use my points if I can not, I have plenty of family for that. I would hope others would know the person they are renting to.

For those who purchased more points than they need, sell them. Then no worry about others renting there points for less.

 

[nntucket]

Mojomanny,

If someone offers you less than you want . . . just say no.

 

[golfnut1264]

Tigger,
where do you get your info...where did you read in the contract that you can only rent points if you cant use them..if i want to sell my points i can..read the contract..nobody sells thier points as a business..you cant make any money from it...all i do is offset some costs by selling vacations..at $80 a point plus mainteneance each point cost is about $7 at todays prices..not taking into account the finance charges and the dues going up..at $12 a point i am not making any money if than want to figure time and cost of selling the points..i use 1/2 and sell 1/2..in about 7-10 years i wont sell any and i will be able to use them all..i bought the extra points now for the future...if we could not sell points they would have a hard time selling out and it keeps the demand for these resorts there..at $12-$15 a point i am still affording someone a deluxe vacation at moderate prices..

 

[JohnnyII]

I was going to stay out of this...But...

A DVC owner is a private individual and not a "business". Therefore there is NOT a standard rental price that all renters adhere to. If an owner can't use their points one year and posts an add to rent them out for $12 per point, there may or may not be someone willing to pay that. If they don't want someone to offer less for their points, they should state in their add that the rate is FIRM!

I am not going to get into what rate I think is fair. There are way to many factors to consider when making that decision. However, if you are interested in renting points, I would be looking for a 25-40% discount from what you can get it directly from Disney for. I would call first and get a price from Disney beofre deciding how much you are willing to pay per point and then look on the Rent'Trade board for a renter willing to rent to you at a price you are willing to pay. If you are only willing to pay $7-8 per point, there probably won't be anyone interested in renting to you at that rate, but you can certainly try.

As stated previously, if you are thinking about renting points from an owner, it will ONLY make sense if you will be staying in one of the DVC resorts (OKW, BWV, VWL or BCV). If you want to stay at a different WDW resort, renting points will more than likely NOT be a good deal. Also if you only want to rent for a weekend, renting points may not be a great deal due to the higher point cost of weekend nights.

If you...
Need more space
Are bringing teenagers
Considering multiple rooms
If you want a full kitchen to reduce your dining out bill
Want a washer/dryer in your room(1 bedroom and up)
like a jacuzzi in the master bathroom (1bedroom and up)
Did I say need more space?

Then you are a prime candidate to stay in a DVC resort. Once you do, it will be difficult to go back to a standard room and as has happened to many here, you end up buying into DVC.

John

 

[richiebaseball]

There are times when $10 pt is not a great deal. With an annual pass you can get a standard view room at Beach Club for about $200 per night with tax for January and February. That's $1400 for a week. A studio at BCV for the first half of February is 123 pts for a week or $1230 at the going rental rate. It even gets a little closer if you only go for 5 or 6 nights that still include the weekend. You do get a kitchenette and perhaps a little larger room and it may even be a little nicer decor but you're also losing daily maid service and you may be a little farther away from the main pool and from the lobby area. Of course this doesn't take into account the larger units like the 2br, which are extremely nice, but some people just need the larger accommodations because they have more people and sometimes 2 or 3 standard rooms would work just as well. Now I know that not everyone has an AP and those discounts are limited and not offered all year long but with codes and such you can get a substantial discount most of the year at most of the deluxe resorts.
Bottom line: Of course owners want more. They always do. For all you renters out there, wouldn't you want top dollar for something you had to sell or rent? Surely you wouldn't just give stuff away. And of course renters want to pay less. They always do. For all you owners out there don't you try to find the best bargain you can when you buy things? Surely you wouldn't just pay for something without checking some prices.
It's supply and demand. Sometimes plenty of points will be available and plenty of discounts available and owners may have to lower the price a little. Especially if they need to sell them quick for some reason. And sometimes there will be more buyers than sellers and you can raise the price a little because you can get it. There really is no need to get upset and no need for disparaging remarks. In the end, buyers and sellers need each other. And the less antagonistic the process the better it is for everyone.

This observation is one man's opinion only and comes from someone who has thought about but never actually rented points and as soon as the home equity loan closes will probably become an owner at BCV.

Ciao for now,
Richard

 

[DBorges]

There is no where in print that states you can not rent your points..

This is getting just alittle out of hand here ..

I say we start a dvc renter club lmao and set prices..

This should get some nasty responces..

 

[Pkdcoastrs]

As a person who's family can't afford to buy into DVC and even take trips to WDW more than once every few years, asking for $8 sometimes shouldn't be so "horrible". And add to that, who doesn't want to save? Alll you have to do is say "No", you shouldn't take it all personally. I bought points from a person who needed to get rid of them for $7.50 so I guess I was spoiled, but some people should understand people like my family are trying to save while helping out DVC'ers who don't want to loose the full amount per point.

Oh well..

Mike
..who tries to get his family the best deal, and doesn't see why asking for a certain price should be so "bad".

 

[golfnut1264]

remeber there are times when that same room is $450 a night..you quoted $1400 vs $1230..i would rather pay $1230 that $1400..it is still a good deal..you went out and got the best deal you could as an ap holder and a total stranger sved you an additional $170 and you dont htink that is a good deal..it appears renters on this board have gotten to spoiled with these bargain basemnet prices..

 

[mcr5298]

This debate can swirl forever.

I can see how someone trying to rent points will be nervous if the price it too high they won't be able to rent their points . I have rented several times in the past and have always been able to find someone willing to take my points off my hands.

And the people that have rented them from me have realized how much I saved them and have requested additional points.

If you want $12 per point for you points post that. I did. I am sure someone can come up with an example @ $10/point where renting is not a good deal.

Every single time I have rented I have saved the renter HALF. The most recent example is four nights in 2Bdr. OKW for 4 nights total 108 points $1080. Try to rent that room. Expedia $560/night Plus tax for a grand total of $2497. Wow, thats better then half off.

Yeah, Yeah. The trust thing. I would think if there were a huge problem either way it would be on these boards. I am sure most of the transaction go very smoothly.

Well, thats that.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[wdwphanatic]

... I agree 100% with your posts. It is a shame when things get antagonistic on any board -- it really benefits no one in the end. Buyers and sellers do need each other and must respect each other's limitations at the same time. I am so glad that I've found this board, and look forward to forging many relationships with DVCers in the future when planning my family vacations!

 

[Dean]

Without dealing with the individual posts, here are a few points. As to renting, it's expressly allowed in the contract and by law. While Disney is the 600 lb gorilla and could make it difficult if they chose to, they would not be on firm legal ground in any attempt to prevent renting. What they could do would be to protect their copywrited logo's and the like. Those that think one can only rent if points are going to be lost or only to family and friends or only for the dues amount are either misinformed or engaging in wishful thinking.

As to the value of a points stay, it will vary with the time of year, budget of the renter and what they compare to. One way is to say what does DVC charge for the same unit. That is one way to look at it but I suspect few people will call CRO and say how much is a 2 BR at BCV and then use that as a comparison for a points stay. Even if this is the basis of a comparison, you would need to use the discount prices to compare to. If one would otherwise stay in a moderate, that will be their basis for comparion. If they would stay off site, that would be their frame of reference as well.

I think $10 pp is a fair price from both directions but remember that these are not refundable stays. There are risks to the renter and they will need to be saving enough money to make it worth taking the risks. Those that bought later and/or paid more may need a slightly higher price to make it worth renting out the points.

I am not offended if someone offers less unless they try to tell me why I should take less. That's how most things work on the open market. I also don't feel we as a group can set prices, my understanding is that is illegal, which we discussed a few weeks ago.

As for personal attacks, disagreeing with the information, even feeling it's totally wrong, is not a personal attack. We can all disagree on many things. The one thing that always gets me is when Rich takes the liberal stance (as he does on points renting) as he's usually such a conservative guy. I am amazed and put off when non members proceed to tell members what they should and shouldn't do. Stating one's experiences and opinions is fine but on rare occasions a non member has been trolling for cheap points by talking down the cost, that I find very irritating and have said so when it happened. I don't see anything on this thread in that way though, it's just a friendly discussion so far. Hopefully it'll stay that way.

 

[zurgswife]

First, I'm a DVC member but I constantly get my friends to rent points.....

Most of you are comparing renting a stuido with getting a hotel room...for my friends and even myself we have families of 5 or 6 people which would require getting 2 hotel rooms not one...and if you do that comparision DVC is almost always a great deal...

March 1-8
All prices at the discout code approx 30%
Contemporary Resort 289 with tax 7 day total $2255.64 X 2
grand total $4511.28

Wilderness Lodge 189 with tax 7 day total $1475.14 X 2
grand total $2950.28

Port Orleans 119 with tax 7 day total $925.79 X2
grand total $1851.58

A two bedroom Villa at the BW is 306 points at $10
grand total $3060....$3500 if you rent at a different resort or a preferred view at BWV

So, it seems that those of us with a larger families get more for our money by renting DVC if comparing a Deluxe resort....But it really isn't a far comparison because for your DVC points you get a lot more then just 2 hotel rooms: a jacuzzi bath, 2 bath rooms, living room to gather, kitchen (even if you don't want to cook), washer and dryer (hey if you get caught in a FL down pour you really appreciate it), 2 separate sleeping rooms.....

Just my 2 cents....I think it is a great deal for all.....

 

[DVCPAT]

I have rented points only to friends and co-workers. I would not take it personally if they asked me to lower the price. I would consider them a smart shopper. If they can do better, go for it.

I think Disney sets the market for the price renters will bare. A fool and his points are soon separated.

 

[Campingbuddy]

I have a question for the DVC members who are renting their points.

Are you being forced to rent your points or is that a personal decision? Are the prices for these points set by someone in particular or do you set your own rates?

My last question is, why do you begrudge anyone for trying to get as good a deal as possible considering that in today's world everyone trys to get the best deal they possibly can?

I know I'm not forced to rent my points at all.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Why do renters even rent "points" when in reality they are getting a vacation? If owners took the whole "points" issue out of the equation and offered a vacation instead of "points", renters would compare vacation to vacation instead of price per point. Points are useless to a renter who is not a DVC member. It kind of goes back to the weekdays vs weekends issue. If you take a 7 day vacation and average the points over the week, it's no big deal. If you insist on keeping the Fri and Sat night points separate from the Sun-Thur night points, you think you are getting screwed on the weekends.

I never plan on renting my points - I have too many vacations to take. I might make vacations for family or friends or get a longer vacation the next year for myself and my family if I couldn't use the points one year.

I say, quit offering points for rent and tell people what the vacation costs and eliminate the points issue. Remove the points chart from the DIS since so many renters don't even have a clue what they are looking at unless they have rented points many times. Lots of renters don't even know about occupancy limitations and look at the studio points when they really need a two bedroom. They think they can get a GV a few months out from a major vacation time.

Renters could advertise that they want a vacation at whatever DVC resort for x many days with x many people (ages x-y) in the unit. Then owners who want to rent could respond with what they have to offer for a total vacation price. Then owners renting the vacation out would be able to work with any price per point they wanted and not be limited to flat dollar amounts.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

It's probably unrealistic to expect shoppers and bargainers not to try to take advantage of those renting points and attempt to negotiate the lowest possible deal.

I am not in favor of the same members regularly renting points for cash, and see the intent of DVC as a family/friend vacation plan. Regardless of the debate as to what's specifically cited in the contract, that comes too close to using DVC as a business, which will not be beneficial to members in my opinion. Hopefully that contingency doesn't grow too large, and remain very small. I also think these price fixing allogations can go overboard.

Should I ever decide to rent out my points in the future, which I hope I will not need to due to financial circumstances, $10 seems a bit low.

 

[golfnut1264]

Deb,
You nailed it..that is why i refer to it as selling a vaction and not renting points...price per point is irrelevant..it is how much for the vacation...someone posted they needed points for 3 specific days and it would be a certain amount of points..i emailed them and told them i could book but would sell the 3 night stay for $400 which disney will charge $900..thought that was pretty fair of me..they never even responded to decline..and they posted again loking for the points...have the decency to at least decline if you dont want to accept 60% off the price...

 

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
...(snip)....I am not in favor of the same members regularly renting points for cash, and see the intent of DVC as a family/friend vacation plan. Regardless of the debate as to what's specifically cited in the contract, that comes too close to using DVC as a business, which will not be beneficial to members in my opinion. Hopefully that contingency doesn't grow too large, and remain very small. ...(snip)....

Captain - I'm curious. What difference does it make who stays in a DVC room - your family, your friends, my family, my friends, renters, CRO cash customers, etc. Why do you think renting points is not beneficial to members. FWIW, I am a DVC owner and have never rented my points to others & hope I never have to or want to. That said, I'm neutral on renting. Don't care if others do it, don't care how much they do it (they are subject to the same booking windows as I am) and I really don't see why I should care. Carol

 

[Deb & Bill]

If you sell your points, you no longer have them to use. You have terminated your real estate ownership in DVC.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Captain - I'm curious. What difference does it make who stays in a DVC room - your family, your friends, my family, my friends, renters, CRO cash customers, etc. Why do you think renting points is not beneficial to members.

What difference does it make who stays in a DVC room? Well, for starters as said above --

Renters may not take as good care of the property we invested in. Who is responsible when something is broken or stolen?

I also think the demand levels are different between DVC members and non-member bargain hunters renting points, which if it grows too large will alter the allocation of points between weekend and weekdays, which may be unfavorable to DVC members. Members understand the balance between weekdays and weekends, and will make vacations looking at the whole week knowing the total point allocation, and also make some weekend adjustments based on the incentives the point structure provides, they know they are invested for 40 years, have thought through thier vacation patters and invested heavily to accomodate those. I don't have data and vacation patterning information as reference to these views, but in my opinion the demand levels are different between DVC members and short one time rentals, and adjustments in the point allocation schedule will probably be detrimental to some members like myself, who've tried to carefully plan how many points they need for vacations.

I think there's a pride in ownership and in taking care of our properties that while not shared by cash stays, is shared by members who are staying to help take care of our properties. While it's not always evidenced by the discussions on these boards, I think fellow DVC owners are more considerate of one another than renters, for example - they are less likely to leave bags of trash sitting in the hallway because they know where the trash locations are and are less likely to want to inconvenience others DVC owners. They are more likely to adhere to smoking rules, be considerate of fellow members with noise, etc., possibly less likely to steal, as my family experienced around the Vero Beach pool with some of our belongings. DVC members know they'll be back year after year, while a renter may be in a take all you can mode knowing it's not really thiers and they may never be back, who cares (I know there are plenty of nice responsible renters out there, I'm talking about incentives). My opinion is DVC members are less abusive of the resorts in general than renters. I know we do already have have cash customers staying at our resorts, but altering the balance by an increasing number of renters I don't see as favorable to my and fellow DVC members investment in future family vacations.

Those are a couple of reasons why I am not in favor of the same members regularly renting points for cash, and see the intent of DVC as a family/friend vacation plan, and hope this contingency stays low. I'm not trying to pick on anyone who is currently doing this, but I don't see it as in the best interest of fellow DVC members. I hope the number of people doing this remains small to lessen the presumed negative impacts.