Back to school *vent*

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I don't see teaching kids a way to be organized as spoonfeeding them. Many kids will continue to use organization methods they learned in elementary school throughout school. My son is in high school and none of his teachers requested certain colors of folders, notebooks. He still wants a different color for each subject, so when he goes to grab his history notebook, he doesn't have to look at what is written on three books.



You might want to gather some other parents that feel the same way together and talk to someone in your district about math. I wish I had known sooner what a problem it would be. They need to offer one section of at least Algebra I and Geometry that lasts the whole year, like Algebra Ia and Ib. Even kids with math disabilities(like my son) are expected to complete each math in one semester and there are just too many concepts for most of them to get it before they move on. Since math builds, we are doing a disservice to our kids. These kids fail the first time and then pass the second, which proves to me that they can get the concepts if they are exposed for longer to each topic.

Anyone who thinks the tests have been dumbed down seriously needs to get copies of a retired end of grade test for 7th or 8th grade and then decide. Of course, we didn't have EOG tests, so there is nothing to compare them to. I can tell you that in K, all we did was play with blocks, sing songs, and have a nap. My K's have to be reading full sentences including sight words, recognize numbers through at least 30, and write three sentences to a topic. The standards have definitely been raised over the years.

Marsha

While grade school scores have risen they are still lower by high school. Pushing younger children has never been shown to have long term benefits. Other than bragging rights for parents, of course.

 

[Leajess99]

So a house burned down in our neighborhod this week (to the ground). My nice sharing, care for others type of children came up with the idea to have a lemonade stand to raise $ for the family that lost everything. They are insisting on putting in their own $$ also.

Teaching children to share and care about others (example share a pencil so someone does not fail a test) transfers over into all parts of their lives.

It is sad that you are teaching your children that is it OK to be selfish and that it is ok to sit back and see someone distressed (because sitting back and watching someone fail a test because they have no pencil has to look distressful).

The lessons you teach your children now will carry with them for a lifetime.

She was being sarcastic when she stated about not sharing no matter what. And while I don't care about communal supplies, I do understand that it does not necessarily teach sharing. I can understand it in Kindergarten but I liked what the teacher did last year where she did pool the supplies in the closet yet the kids kept a pack of crayons, gluesticks and pencils in their pencil boxes at their desks. The other supplies were made available upon asking to get them. My daughter still shared as some kids just cannot take care of their own school supplies.

 

[threecrazykids]

The sad thing is that even in College you have the kids that don't bring any paper or pens and have to find someone else to borrow from. Even on test days some don't bring anything with them.

And the reason for that being? Because no one before then taught them there were consequences for NOT bringing them. How about a big F on the test? How about summer school because you flunked that class on the kids dollar? Pretty sure if Mom and Dad are paying your college tuition there will be consequences, if not...well then that's their own fault. Kids have GOT to learn consequences. The REAL problem is the parents who go screaming to the schools how "Johnny is forgetful and needs another chance" or how it's somehow the schools fault he failed the test even though he simply forgot or was unprepared. Then the school gives them 10 chances because they don't want their scores to go down, or the # of students not graduating on time or poor grading OR the best one "we're going to sue the school". It's a vicious circle.

Until we actually hold our kids accountable we will forever have 30 year old adults living in our basements playing video games living off their parents dollar.

 

[MeanestMomEver]

To the OP, good luck finding everything on the list. I agree, shop those ads! There are such great sales right now. Target-great sales on the basics!

I have one in HS and one in college (and thankfully one college grad!) and so I kind of miss those days of the new box of perfectly pointy crayons and choosing a backpack that's just right.

Here's my advice: buy doubles (or more) of the things that are dirt cheap now, if you can. You'll be glad later. I still enjoy picking up posterboards when they go on sale for 10 cents at Walgreens. That way, at 11 pm on a Tuesday night when my daughter needs a posterboard NOW, I feel so smug, pulling one out from my stash behind the dresser. heh heh. Of course, I've become the go-to girl for posters for all her friends too, but become a hero for 10 cents doesn't happen very often so I just enjoy it!

I also enjoyed stocking up on the sales and when supplies went on clearance. If I found a great deal, I'd find out if my child's teacher needed that product and send it in. More than once a bag of supplies that cost me under $3-5 made the teachers day - which made my day!

One year, frustrated with what felt like a ton of pencils in every desk drawer in the house, I gathered them up (you know the ones from the dentist, the fair, the loot bags, the 6 inch ones, etc) and took them to the office at the middle school. They had a pencil cup there for kids who needed one. (They wisely only put out 4-5 at a time, LOL) And I asked, "Can you use these?" The secretary was so happy to have them, you'd think I'd taken in a box of cash! And I swear, at least 5 teachers said "Thanks for the pencils" over the next few months. (huh? seriously?)

Yeah, I don't mean to sound like a supply martyr. LOL I was just remembering how easy it is to help out by sharing even in a small way. So - if you can, stock up on extras if you run into a good sale- your school staff will love you for it.

Now if you want to get me going- let's talk sorority furniture fees, chapter fees, parlor fees, meal plans, parking passes, pins, T shirts, required wardrobe items for rush... and I won't even get into what I'm going to spend at the bookstore. But if any of the girls needs to make a poster - they should come see me.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Until we actually hold our kids accountable we will forever have 30 year old adults living in our basements playing video games living off their parents dollar.

God forbid!

 

[Hannathy]

I don't see teaching kids a way to be organized as spoonfeeding them. Many kids will continue to use organization methods they learned in elementary school throughout school. My son is in high school and none of his teachers requested certain colors of folders, notebooks. He still wants a different color for each subject, so when he goes to grab his history notebook, he doesn't have to look at what is written on three books.

Marsha

That is great that color coding works for your son BUT the big difference is it is HIS decision to do it and his decision what color to use. That is what angers me. Why do the teachers have to pick the colors, why can't the just say get 5 sets of notebook and folders the same colors and let the kid pick. Or we suggest this but you can do it however it works for you as long as you are prepared and if you aren't then you pay the consequences. My son's school has a punch card come to class unprepared get a punch, have to go to your desk to get something get a punch. so many punches and you loose a privilege. Let the parent and child decide if they need to color code it and what colors.

Everyone forgets something sometimes so yes having a few extra pencils to borrow is no big deal but I don't like to pool paper and glue and markers etc.

My son is going into 6th grade and yes even at that age they expect you to bring in "community" supplies so it isn't just a preschool thing

 

[fakereadhed]

And the reason for that being? Because no one before then taught them there were consequences for NOT bringing them. How about a big F on the test? How about summer school because you flunked that class on the kids dollar? Pretty sure if Mom and Dad are paying your college tuition there will be consequences, if not...well then that's their own fault. Kids have GOT to learn consequences. The REAL problem is the parents who go screaming to the schools how "Johnny is forgetful and needs another chance" or how it's somehow the schools fault he failed the test even though he simply forgot or was unprepared. Then the school gives them 10 chances because they don't want their scores to go down, or the # of students not graduating on time or poor grading OR the best one "we're going to sue the school". It's a vicious circle.

Until we actually hold our kids accountable we will forever have 30 year old adults living in our basements playing video games living off their parents dollar.

Another reason we took responsibility back in the day was because we respected our teachers and parents. That was back when you swore at a teacher or parent they would paddle you. Not saying we should go back THAT far, but somewhere along the way we gave kids all the power and they don't respect much of anything anymore. I would have been completely mortified to show up for school unprepared. It was my responsibility and I would not have disappointed my teacher, parents, or myself that way.

 

[palavra]

When we were in school, before the schools had the need to micromanage, if we forgot the science notebook, we did without. We quietly asked to borrow paper and pencil, and didn't forget it the next day. Natural and logical.

And I can tell you aren't a teacher. When we were in school, parents didn't routinely call or email the teacher asking why little Johnny wasn't allowed to go get his social studies notebook for class. Even if we explain that Johnny wrote notes on regular paper, we are likely to get something along the lines of , well, what is the notebook for then? Today's classroom is a whole different ballgame. We teachers have to take on the responsibility of getting the kids organized because so many parents won't hold their kids accountable. Your kid flunks a test because he didn't bring paper and pencil to take notes in class and it's the teacher's fault. The teacher should have given your kid a pencil and paper or, better yet, made a copy of the notes for him or her.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

And I can tell you aren't a teacher. When we were in school, parents didn't routinely call or email the teacher asking why little Johnny wasn't allowed to go get his social studies notebook for class. Even if we explain that Johnny wrote notes on regular paper, we are likely to get something along the lines of , well, what is the notebook for then? Today's classroom is a whole different ballgame. We teachers have to take on the responsibility of getting the kids organized because so many parents won't hold their kids accountable. Your kid flunks a test because he didn't bring paper and pencil to take notes in class and it's the teacher's fault. The teacher should have given your kid a pencil and paper or, better yet, made a copy of the notes for him or her.

No, I am not a teacher. I have, however been asked to assess 100's of classrooms over 25 years, observing structure, and making changes. Dealing with parents is a daily occurence. Yes, many make excuses, etc. That doesn't mean that they should be encouraged in their snowflakeness. Sometimes you just have to have a backbone.

 

[penn19]

While grade school scores have risen they are still lower by high school. Pushing younger children has never been shown to have long term benefits. Other than bragging rights for parents, of course.

 

[princessmom29]

No, I am not a teacher. I have, however been asked to assess 100's of classrooms over 25 years, observing structure, and making changes. Dealing with parents is a daily occurence. Yes, many make excuses, etc. That doesn't mean that they should be encouraged in their snowflakeness. Sometimes you just have to have a backbone.

well, when you stand up to that parent, they will go to your principal trying to get you to cave. Typically the principal will tell you to just do what Mommy wants to avoid the conflict. If your principal has backbone, then, they will go to the schooln board and tell them that their little snowflake has been mistreated. The schoolboard typically caves at that point rather than deal with the bad press, and you still end up doing what Mommy wants, and go on file as a troublemaker. It happens that way more than you would think, and over the silliest things that really shouldn't be a big deal. If a parent yells loud enough for long enough then teachers are typically forced to do what the parent wants regardless, and lots of parnets are willing to raise that kind of stink over something silly. That is why teachers in general typically just try to deal with it and make them happy. It is not worth it. We have fought and lost this fight over: not allowing a child to go to the resroom at will(we are talking about a kid that was out 4 times in a 90 min class hibitually with no medical problem), not sending kids back to thier lockers to get suplies, requiring a child's pants to actually cover thier rear(we were apparently violating their civil rights and discriminating), not allowing food to be consumed in classrooms, and that is just at our school. It is truly becoming pointless to fight the parents b/c no one supports the teachers anymore.

 

[torinsmom]

And the reason for that being? Because no one before then taught them there were consequences for NOT bringing them. How about a big F on the test? How about summer school because you flunked that class on the kids dollar? Pretty sure if Mom and Dad are paying your college tuition there will be consequences, if not...well then that's their own fault. Kids have GOT to learn consequences. The REAL problem is the parents who go screaming to the schools how "Johnny is forgetful and needs another chance" or how it's somehow the schools fault he failed the test even though he simply forgot or was unprepared. Then the school gives them 10 chances because they don't want their scores to go down, or the # of students not graduating on time or poor grading OR the best one "we're going to sue the school". It's a vicious circle.

Until we actually hold our kids accountable we will forever have 30 year old adults living in our basements playing video games living off their parents dollar.

Unfortunately, teachers don't have many consequences left that they can use. We are not allowed to paddle anymore(not that I would), we are not allowed to take away a child's recess, we are not allowed to take points away on a test because we had to lend a pencil, etc. Heck, if you even LOOK at a child wrong, you can get called in to talk with the principal. I have had parents complain because I had their child sit at a table by themselves after being disruptive at lunch. It is getting ridiculous. Its very hard to earn a kids respect when you are not allowed to discipline.

That is great that color coding works for your son BUT the big difference is it is HIS decision to do it and his decision what color to use. That is what angers me. Why do the teachers have to pick the colors, why can't the just say get 5 sets of notebook and folders the same colors and let the kid pick. Or we suggest this but you can do it however it works for you as long as you are prepared and if you aren't then you pay the consequences. My son's school has a punch card come to class unprepared get a punch, have to go to your desk to get something get a punch. so many punches and you loose a privilege. Let the parent and child decide if they need to color code it and what colors.

Everyone forgets something sometimes so yes having a few extra pencils to borrow is no big deal but I don't like to pool paper and glue and markers etc.

My son is going into 6th grade and yes even at that age they expect you to bring in "community" supplies so it isn't just a preschool thing

I think the reason would be for the teacher to pick a different color for each class. I can see where it would help if she took the notebooks up to check work and kept them until the next day. She would automatically know that the stray blue book that got mixed in belonged to a first period student, for instance. I'm not saying that's something they should do, but its one reason.

I don't even think the punches idea would fly at my school. What kind of privileges do the kids lose? We aren't allowed to take anything away, because that would be unfair, and a parent would surely complain all the way to the school board

Marsha

 

[angelmav]

well, when you stand up to that parent, they will go to your principal trying to get you to cave. Typically the principal will tell you to just do what Mommy wants to avoid the conflict. If your principal has backbone, then, they will go to the schooln board and tell them that their little snowflake has been mistreated. The schoolboard typically caves at that point rather than deal with the bad press, and you still end up doing what Mommy wants, and go on file as a troublemaker. It happens that way more than you would think, and over the silliest things that really shouldn't be a big deal. If a parent yells loud enough for long enough then teachers are typically forced to do what the parent wants regardless, and lots of parnets are willing to raise that kind of stink over something silly. That is why teachers in general typically just try to deal with it and make them happy. It is not worth it. We have fought and lost this fight over: not allowing a child to go to the resroom at will(we are talking about a kid that was out 4 times in a 90 min class hibitually with no medical problem), not sending kids back to thier lockers to get suplies, requiring a child's pants to actually cover thier rear(we were apparently violating their civil rights and discriminating), not allowing food to be consumed in classrooms, and that is just at our school. It is truly becoming pointless to fight the parents b/c no one supports the teachers anymore.

Unfortunately, this applies to far to many aspects of life in the US as well.

 

[Hannathy]

discipline.

I don't even think the punches idea would fly at my school. What kind of privileges do the kids lose? We aren't allowed to take anything away, because that would be unfair, and a parent would surely complain all the way to the school board

Marsha

Actually it is more like privileges they earn. Every quarter they have an honor card "party" and if they have less than a certain number and it is very low- just not having your card on you or forgetting to get it signed by your parent one week can just about knock you out of the party. Also at the end of the year field trip if you could earn extra minutes in the amusement park if you had less than a certain number all year.

 

[torinsmom]

Actually it is more like privileges they earn. Every quarter they have an honor card "party" and if they have less than a certain number and it is very low- just not having your card on you or forgetting to get it signed by your parent one week can just about knock you out of the party. Also at the end of the year field trip if you could earn extra minutes in the amusement park if you had less than a certain number all year.

See that wouldn't fly either. You can't have a party and not include everyone at our school. It is really irritating to me. We have individual kids earn beads by making good choices, but they go into a jar. Once the jar is full, the whole class has a special treat, even the ones that never got a bead. The PE teacher does give stamps on the kids hands and if you're not good, you don't get one, and parents even complain about that. Kids are growing up thinking they can do what they want at school and noone can do anything about it.

Marsha

 

[TwinsinCA]

I don't even think the punches idea would fly at my school. What kind of privileges do the kids lose? We aren't allowed to take anything away, because that would be unfair, and a parent would surely complain all the way to the school board

Marsha

Why can't you take away recess? Is that a school rule? District? State? Because at my kids' school they are allowed to do that -- usually because someone "forgot" to do their homework.

 

[TwinsinCA]

See that wouldn't fly either. You can't have a party and not include everyone at our school. It is really irritating to me. We have individual kids earn beads by making good choices, but they go into a jar. Once the jar is full, the whole class has a special treat, even the ones that never got a bead. The PE teacher does give stamps on the kids hands and if you're not good, you don't get one, and parents even complain about that. Kids are growing up thinking they can do what they want at school and noone can do anything about it.

Marsha

What happens if there is something serious that a child does -- cheating, violence towards classmate, etc. Surely you have SOME system of discipline in place.

 

[taylor3297]

It is part of the Constitution. There are specific powers granted to the national government and reserved powers that are held by the states. While each state is responsible for its own education system, it must provide a school system for all students. States do not have to right to scrap the public school system.

Looking at the United States Constitution, no provision is made for education, but the Constitution does instruct that ... "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." (Tenth Amendment) In other words, education is reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

 

[tinker&belle]

Wow! I have been reading along with this thread for the last few days. I taught K (private) and preschool before becoming a SAHM. We always provided the supplies but the parents paid so much in tuition it more than made up for that.

This thread inspired me to pick up about $5 in supplies for my cousin who teaches in public school. I got several packs of the .25 glue sticks, some rulers (she told me before the kids break theirs and she gives them new ones), eraser toppers (another thing she has mentioned having to provide loads of) and some red and blue pens.

She acted like a gave her a bag of gold! She said she gets $150 a year for supplies. She brings her receipts in during teacher work days before school starts and has always spent well over that. She was so grateful just for the one bag I got for her.

 

[here757]

i dont care for the community bucket thing for the supplies.

we happen to live in a middle class neighborhood. surrounded by alot of low income.
alot of low income familys here would rather spend their money on rims for the car. tinted windows , car steros etc etc instead of school supplies. some of them live in section 8 housing.

when a child gets dropped off in moms caddy with the huge 26 inch rims but cant afford a box of 25 cent crayons i get upset.. my son went through 8 boxes of crayons last year. cuz kids borrow them and dont return them. same with pencils. one kid even borrowed a 3 subject notebook and didnt return it.
i told my child not to lend out the entire notebook anymore. just 1 pencil or a few sheets of paper. if they ask for a crayon. ask what color and get it back.
its the same kids year after year!!!
funny thing is.. when i meet that childs parents. they dont dress or look like they cant afford stuff.

granted there are extreme cases . kids not eating. clothes are not new. i am NOT referencing those folks.!!

there is a donation box in the front of my sons school. i drop off alot of stuff.