Back to school *vent*

[MM27]

well, when you stand up to that parent, they will go to your principal trying to get you to cave. Typically the principal will tell you to just do what Mommy wants to avoid the conflict. If your principal has backbone, then, they will go to the schooln board and tell them that their little snowflake has been mistreated. The schoolboard typically caves at that point rather than deal with the bad press, and you still end up doing what Mommy wants, and go on file as a troublemaker. It happens that way more than you would think, and over the silliest things that really shouldn't be a big deal. If a parent yells loud enough for long enough then teachers are typically forced to do what the parent wants regardless, and lots of parnets are willing to raise that kind of stink over something silly. That is why teachers in general typically just try to deal with it and make them happy. It is not worth it. We have fought and lost this fight over: not allowing a child to go to the resroom at will(we are talking about a kid that was out 4 times in a 90 min class hibitually with no medical problem), not sending kids back to thier lockers to get suplies, requiring a child's pants to actually cover thier rear(we were apparently violating their civil rights and discriminating), not allowing food to be consumed in classrooms, and that is just at our school. It is truly becoming pointless to fight the parents b/c no one supports the teachers anymore.

Great post
The general public would be surprised with some of the things that people complain about. I had a parent one year complain to my principal that I didn't have a party for Halloween. My class that year was very rough and I didn't feel that they deserved any type of party or celebration yet, it was something they had to work towards. I was called out of class during instruction time to meet with the mother and my principal over this. Forget the other 23 kids in the class who were now missing instruction time
I stated why I didn't do a party and clearly explained how her child was part of the problem in my class. My principal said very little and later told me how nicely I handled myself (she was known as THAT parent). After that, she started complaining about every little thing I did. What a happy day it was when that year was over.

Unfortunately, teachers don't have many consequences left that they can use. We are not allowed to paddle anymore(not that I would), we are not allowed to take away a child's recess, we are not allowed to take points away on a test because we had to lend a pencil, etc. Heck, if you even LOOK at a child wrong, you can get called in to talk with the principal. I have had parents complain because I had their child sit at a table by themselves after being disruptive at lunch. It is getting ridiculous. Its very hard to earn a kids respect when you are not allowed to discipline.



I think the reason would be for the teacher to pick a different color for each class. I can see where it would help if she took the notebooks up to check work and kept them until the next day. She would automatically know that the stray blue book that got mixed in belonged to a first period student, for instance. I'm not saying that's something they should do, but its one reason.

I don't even think the punches idea would fly at my school. What kind of privileges do the kids lose? We aren't allowed to take anything away, because that would be unfair, and a parent would surely complain all the way to the school board

Marsha

I take away recess. Actually, every teacher in my school does. We have a section of our playground where the students stand on "the wall" if they didn't have homework or were misbehaving.

I teach 2 classes. I use one color notebook for one class and a different color for the other class for each subject. It's easier for the kids because they share a desk and seat sack and I can quickly scan the room and make sure they have theirs and aren't writing in someone else's notebook. I buy the notebooks myself though.

 

[torinsmom]

Why can't you take away recess? Is that a school rule? District? State? Because at my kids' school they are allowed to do that -- usually because someone "forgot" to do their homework.

I was told that the kids have to have that "down time" in both schools I have worked at. It is something about them getting out in the fresh air. We can have kids sit out if they hurt someone on the playground, but only for a few minutes.

What happens if there is something serious that a child does -- cheating, violence towards classmate, etc. Surely you have SOME system of discipline in place.

Flagrant violence will get them sent to the principal's office, as will inappropriate behavior like showing body parts. If it is repetitive, the child will get sent home.

I use time out in my classroom, even though some parents complain about it. Sometimes the child just needs some space and time to get themselves together.

Marsha

 

[nicki.momof3]

As a high school English teacher I require my students to write daily journals on assigned topics. I teach 5 sections of English with 34-36 students in each class (class size was raised this year in our new contract by adminstration).

Anyway, at the end of the week I require them to turn them in for grading. I have a different color for each class. I could not imagine carrying home 180 spiral notebook all the same color to grade - that would take forever. With different colors for each class I can seperate everything by periods and put the grades in my book. It also makes passing them back much easier.

Yes, when we were children colors were not needed. However, times have changed and I also never had 36 students in my high school classes.

 

[Soben]

Unfortunately, teachers don't have many consequences left that they can use. We are not allowed to paddle anymore(not that I would), we are not allowed to take away a child's recess, we are not allowed to take points away on a test because we had to lend a pencil, etc. Heck, if you even LOOK at a child wrong, you can get called in to talk with the principal. I have had parents complain because I had their child sit at a table by themselves after being disruptive at lunch. It is getting ridiculous. Its very hard to earn a kids respect when you are not allowed to discipline.

They do have lots of consequences at my kids' school...lost recesses, losing points for not being prepared for class, detentions for 1st graders...sometimes it seems harsh (my 8th grade honor student almost was pulled out of going to the state academic team finals because she was thought to have missed 2 math assignments over the year (luckily it was only one)) but I feel that you have to support the teachers because they need authority and your kids need to learn that there are consequences and that sometimes life is hard.

 

[Hannathy]

As a high school English teacher I require my students to write daily journals on assigned topics. I teach 5 sections of English with 34-36 students in each class (class size was raised this year in our new contract by adminstration).

Anyway, at the end of the week I require them to turn them in for grading. I have a different color for each class. I could not imagine carrying home 180 spiral notebook all the same color to grade - that would take forever. With different colors for each class I can seperate everything by periods and put the grades in my book. It also makes passing them back much easier.

Yes, when we were children colors were not needed. However, times have changed and I also never had 36 students in my high school classes.

Sorry don't buy it. You still have to separate them so the few extra seconds it would take to read the top one that said period 7 or whatever wouldn't add up to much. They and you can read and can write in big letters whatever hour it is or whatever you need to id it from others. It is only to help make your job easier not help the kids in anyway.

when I went to school yes classes did have over 30 kids in them and that included elementary school also so it is nothing new.

 

[AZMermaid]

What I find most interesting is the class size. At our elementary school, the K classes average about 15 kids (my son had 13) and the first grade is roughly similar. I think, by 5th grade, they go up to 22 or so but I don't know Middle School numbers. We have all the specials in full force and no pay for play sports. Our Community is wonderful in supporting the schools (people get that their housing values have not declined due to the high quality of the schools...people WANT to live here) and always pass levies for school funding.

Wow- what awesome class sizes! I would die for my kids to have 15 kinder kids in a class. The ones I posted were the proposed maxes if the tax didn't pass, but they have still increased. I want to say the maxes are 26 K, 30 1st (that one I know, there are 29 slated in each class for next year), 32- 2nd and 3rd, and 35 4th and 5th. It is nuts.

The main reason they went up this year is the state stopped funding all day Kindergarten. On a personal level, I am 100% okay with this. I think it is a long day for those kiddos. On a professional level, I think it would be awfully hard for those kids to reach the 1st grade standards that were based on a system of all day K. But, most big districts continue to offer it for free to stay competitive. We have Open Enrollment too so if one district makes you pay for all day K and one doesn't, guess where all the kids go? So, the money for that had to come from all the other grade levels. I think (hope) that in a few years the districts will all drop it at the same time. Title 1 kids can still get free all day K as a way to "catch up" to their peers and learn English. I figure daycare is subsidized for those kids, so I don't really have a problem with paying for their Kindergarten. But, if others want it, they should pay. It puts too much of a strain on the rest of the school system.

 

[mum4jenn]

For the teachers and others that actually work in a school: Face it Parents that have never worked on a day-to-day basis with kids in a school room will NEVER understand the "whys" and "whats" of running a classroom. Keep doing what you do and don't worry about the complainers...they will never be happy no matter what you do.

For the Parents who have never worked at a school: If you think you can do a better job then go earn your teaching degree and you can set your own rules for classroom management....until then buy your child the supplies he/she needs and stop whining like 2 year olds and let the paid professionals do their job.Just sayin'

 

[tinker&belle]

Sorry don't buy it. You still have to separate them so the few extra seconds it would take to read the top one that said period 7 or whatever wouldn't add up to much. They and you can read and can write in big letters whatever hour it is or whatever you need to id it from others. It is only to help make your job easier not help the kids in anyway.

Really??? She is already grading the papers at home in her 'free' time. I don't understand why people care so much to buy color coded notebooks unless it is something really hard to find.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

There are difficult parents and there are difficult teachers. I find that if a teacher is having an abnormally difficult time with parents we need to look at the teacher and how she/he relates to the parents. Most parents want to work with teachers, and most teachers want to work with parents. I do my best to advocate for the child. When parents complain, I simply smile and say this is the way we do things. And the same goes for teachers with issues, lol.

As far as consequences, there has never been a class that we couldn't work out something that kids wanted to work for enough to work for it. I don't ever advocate recess. That is ridicuous. Exercise and fresh air do wonders for bad attitudes and skittish behavior.

I know this is a long way from the original conversation, but I wanted to make sure I came back to clarify. As for getting a license, and doing it, sometimes it takes an outside observer to see why a system is working or not working. Pridefulness is kind of silly and one of the reasons people see teachers as adversaries rather than as blessings. Even with silly emoticons.

 

[torinsmom]

I gave up on asking for the color coded folders. It really helped me, because I have PreK and K in the same classroom, and there are several times a week that something needs to go home to one group and not the other. I use one color for one group and a second for the other. Now I just buy the folder myself and don't even put them on my list. They were 15 cents at Walmart for the nice ones, so for $3 I make my life much easier. I understand from experience why teachers sometimes use the color coding, so if my DS had that kind of teacher request, I would honor it.

Marsha

 

[Mouse House Mama]

For the teachers and others that actually work in a school: Face it Parents that have never worked on a day-to-day basis with kids in a school room will NEVER understand the "whys" and "whats" of running a classroom. Keep doing what you do and don't worry about the complainers...they will never be happy no matter what you do.

For the Parents who have never worked at a school: If you think you can do a better job then go earn your teaching degree and you can set your own rules for classroom management....until then buy your child the supplies he/she needs and stop whining like 2 year olds and let the paid professionals do their job.Just sayin'

Why are you so angry?

 

[palavra]

There are difficult parents and there are difficult teachers. I find that if a teacher is having an abnormally difficult time with parents we need to look at the teacher and how she/he relates to the parents. Most parents want to work with teachers, and most teachers want to work with parents. I do my best to advocate for the child. When parents complain, I simply smile and say this is the way we do things. And the same goes for teachers with issues, lol.

As far as consequences, there has never been a class that we couldn't work out something that kids wanted to work for enough to work for it. I don't ever advocate recess. That is ridicuous. Exercise and fresh air do wonders for bad attitudes and skittish behavior.

I know this is a long way from the original conversation, but I wanted to make sure I came back to clarify. As for getting a license, and doing it, sometimes it takes an outside observer to see why a system is working or not working. Pridefulness is kind of silly and one of the reasons people see teachers as adversaries rather than as blessings. Even with silly emoticons.

While you may be right that most parents want to work with teachers, you really have no idea how difficult some parents can be. We teachers aren't a prideful lot in general. What we are is tired of people trying to tell us how to do our jobs when they clearly have no idea what it is like to work in a school today. This thread is a prime example of that. We've heard how teachers are making life difficult for parents by requiring certain colors of folders, having community supplies or requiring certain brands. Never mind that fact that the teacher has been doing this for years, knows what works best in his or her classroom over years of repeated trial and error, and really wants her classroom to run smoothly so that your child might get a good education.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I do get wretched people, and there are some. I have worked with dysfunctional families for a long time. And some of those wretched people are even teachers. My comment about pridefulness was directed at a different poster. I'm sorry I offended you, if that isn't how you look at people.

Some of my favorite people are teachers, including a DS, DSil, DNephew, and DNiece.

 

[stm61]

we are not allowed to take away recess because we're told it's a state law, the kids have to have xx amount of "free movement time" per day or week, and they won't get it if they don't have recess. What we can do is make them walk, either around the field or back and forth on the sidewalk, instead of playing with the rest of the class.

Unless the principal and/or school board stand up to parents, the teacher's hands are tied. Some examples from last year: 5th grader exposed himself to 2 female teachers and several female students, making sexual comments as he did so. Principal submitted paperwork to expell student as out lined in the district code. District office said no because "it wouldn't look good on the reports that go to the state." 2nd grader, extemely large for his age, spends his school day physically and verbally bullying students and staff, to the point where several have been injured. Meeting is called to put him on homebound, D.O. says no, it wont' look good on the report.
And it's not just the D.O. that has no backbone. The asst. principal in charge of discipline refused to deal with most of it by spring break and the principal gave up by Christmas. It was so bad that they refused to send help when there were fights in the classrooms. Hit the panic button on the wall and nobody answers. Guidance spends their time telling teachers to "get their act together and learn how to teach" and they wouldn't have any problems. It was so bad teachers were calling the police from their cell phones, instead of calling the office. Why were things that bad? Because every time junior got in trouble, mama came in screaming and threatening to sue the school. Suspensions and ISS went away as soon as mama showed up. If they didn't come in screaming, the parents simply refused to provide contact information. Junior gets sent home with a letter that says he's suspended for 3 days? No problem, just drop them off the next morning and refuse to answer the phone. The teacher now has to deal with a kid who knows he's not supossed to be there, that mama or daddy can't be reached, and that nobody can do anything to him. He spends his day doing whatever he pleases, which usually involves disrupting the class as much as possible because the office doesn't want him in there either. The kids figured out very quickly that there basically were no consequences for anything they did.

 

[Pastamom]

Wow!!! A lot of time debating the need for colored folders, sharing school supplies, etc. If getting a colored folder will make my son's and his teacher's life a little easier by helping keep them organized than what's the problem?? If the teacher feels that sharing supplies is better or vise versa, than who am I to question her/him? We can't control what other parents do (not buy supplies), so why penalize the student and/or the teacher.

I don't want someone coming into my home and telling me how to discipline my kids, cook dinner, shop for groceries - the list could go on and on and I'm sure you don't want that either. Yet why do we feel that we can do that to teachers? They already have a boss/pricinipal.

IMO there are so many more important things to be concerned about, budget cuts, classroom size, what students are learning in school, etc. that many of these issues seem pretty frivolous. We are blessed that we have people who are willing to put up with these complaints because they want to teach our children. Most of us don't see what goes on in that classroom everyday and what a teacher must now do in addtition to teaching. We only have the perspective of what our children tell us and what we hear from other parents which may not always be accurate. And while we may not always agree with what a teacher does, perhaps we should be more supportive of them instead of questioning their every move...

 

[threecrazykids]

Wow!!! A lot of time debating the need for colored folders, sharing school supplies, etc. If getting a colored folder will make my son's and his teacher's life a little easier by helping keep them organized than what's the problem?? If the teacher feels that sharing supplies is better or vise versa, than who am I to question her/him? We can't control what other parents do (not buy supplies), so why penalize the student and/or the teacher.

I don't want someone coming into my home and telling me how to discipline my kids, cook dinner, shop for groceries - the list could go on and on and I'm sure you don't want that either. Yet why do we feel that we can do that to teachers? They already have a boss/pricinipal.

IMO there are so many more important things to be concerned about, budget cuts, classroom size, what students are learning in school, etc. that many of these issues seem pretty frivolous. We are blessed that we have people who are willing to put up with these complaints because they want to teach our children. Most of us don't see what goes on in that classroom everyday and what a teacher must now do in addtition to teaching. We only have the perspective of what our children tell us and what we hear from other parents which may not always be accurate. And while we may not always agree with what a teacher does, perhaps we should be more supportive of them instead of questioning their every move...

While I agree with you for the most part I think it's only fair that parents (including those who are teachers) have a right to question what is going on in our schools "these days". Scores are dropping, budgets are out of control, parents suing the schools every other day, etc. Now, not to say that parents aren't responsible for some of the kids behavior, but when scores of education clearly drop year over year I do think we have a right to question why.

I also think a lot of people look back and say "that NEVER happened when I was in school" and look at the children of this world today and wonder if the minutae has gotten in the way of the big picture. When we are falling behind other countries in education someone has to answer to it, so NOW is it back on the parents? Or do we "leave those answers to the professionals." And I'm HONESTLY not being snarky...just questioning.

 

[mum4jenn]

Wow!!! A lot of time debating the need for colored folders, sharing school supplies, etc. If getting a colored folder will make my son's and his teacher's life a little easier by helping keep them organized than what's the problem?? If the teacher feels that sharing supplies is better or vise versa, than who am I to question her/him? We can't control what other parents do (not buy supplies), so why penalize the student and/or the teacher.

I don't want someone coming into my home and telling me how to discipline my kids, cook dinner, shop for groceries - the list could go on and on and I'm sure you don't want that either. Yet why do we feel that we can do that to teachers? They already have a boss/pricinipal.

IMO there are so many more important things to be concerned about, budget cuts, classroom size, what students are learning in school, etc. that many of these issues seem pretty frivolous. We are blessed that we have people who are willing to put up with these complaints because they want to teach our children. Most of us don't see what goes on in that classroom everyday and what a teacher must now do in addtition to teaching. We only have the perspective of what our children tell us and what we hear from other parents which may not always be accurate. And while we may not always agree with what a teacher does, perhaps we should be more supportive of them instead of questioning their every move...

Awesome post!!

 

[taylor3297]

While I agree with you for the most part I think it's only fair that parents (including those who are teachers) have a right to question what is going on in our schools "these days". Scores are dropping, budgets are out of control, parents suing the schools every other day, etc. Now, not to say that parents aren't responsible for some of the kids behavior, but when scores of education clearly drop year over year I do think we have a right to question why.

I also think a lot of people look back and say "that NEVER happened when I was in school" and look at the children of this world today and wonder if the minutae has gotten in the way of the big picture. When we are falling behind other countries in education someone has to answer to it, so NOW is it back on the parents? Or do we "leave those answers to the professionals." And I'm HONESTLY not being snarky...just questioning.

The countries that the US is always compared to do not educate all kids as we try to do in the US. In most other high achieving countries not everyone is on the college track or even have the same opportunity for college. So when the US is compared to the other countries we are only being compared with the other countries best students.

So, in the grand scheme of things, overall, the US isn't doing too bad in trying to educate ALL children.

Also, we are allowing kids to be judged on one standardized test given at the end of the year. One test does not prove what a child can or cannot do. Also, we really can't even use those tests to compare how students in other states are doing is because each state uses a different test.

Yes the parents need to take part of the blame when a child doesn't learn. It is very hard to encourage a child to learn when their parents don't care. If the parent doesn't care, why should the child?

 

[LilyWDW]

The countries that the US is always compared to do not educate all kids as we try to do in the US. In most other high achieving countries not everyone is on the college track or even have the same opportunity for college. So when the US is compared to the other countries we are only being compared with the other countries best students.

So, in the grand scheme of things, overall, the US isn't doing too bad in trying to educate ALL children.

Also, we are allowing kids to be judged on one standardized test given at the end of the year. One test does not prove what a child can or cannot do. Also, we really can't even use those tests to compare how students in other states are doing is because each state uses a different test.

Yes the parents need to take part of the blame when a child doesn't learn. It is very hard to encourage a child to learn when their parents don't care. If the parent doesn't care, why should the child?

I know this won't be taken well, but who the heck cares...

Not all kids are college material. Not all kids will do well in school. Not all kids will succeed within the education system. I have no problem with how many other countries do it. I do not believe we spend our money on the best things here in the US. Too many schools are dropping classes/programs for our best and brightest. We don't put enough time and money into those at the top.

It saddens me when I see that we are having to drop advanced programs or educational after school programs, but yet we keep throwing money into stuff like athletics. My suggestion? Make all sports pay to play. If people want to play sports then they can pay to do so. Our schools should not be putting money into equipment and travel for the sports teams if they can't afford to pay their staff or keep academic programs. Schools is NOT for athletics... schools ARE for learning.

 

[taylor3297]

I know this won't be taken well, but who the heck cares...

Not all kids are college material. Not all kids will do well in school. Not all kids will succeed within the education system. I have no problem with how many other countries do it. I do not believe we spend our money on the best things here in the US. Too many schools are dropping classes/programs for our best and brightest. We don't put enough time and money into those at the top.

It saddens me when I see that we are having to drop advanced programs or educational after school programs, but yet we keep throwing money into stuff like athletics. My suggestion? Make all sports pay to play. If people want to play sports then they can pay to do so. Our schools should not be putting money into equipment and travel for the sports teams if they can't afford to pay their staff or keep academic programs. Schools is NOT for athletics... schools ARE for learning.

I agree with you that not all kids are college material. Vocational programs need to be brought back in all schools.

I just get tired of hearing how the US is falling behind compared to other countries, when it isn't really comparing apples to apples.