Back to school *vent*

[taylor3297]

I think I will send them a copy of my action research study for grad school. I am comparing the kids achievement and interest when we do the math as a whole group vs. when we individualize based on their needs. I have no doubt what the results will show since I have lived it for 11 years.

Marsha

All teachers should be differentiating the curriculum.

 

[Vijoge]

Whats a keytab scribbler?

I tried to find out what one of those scribblers was too and all that came up was the name on a bunch of school lists. Not helpful!

It appears it is some type of notebook as some lists specify lines or no lines. Also comes with and without coils. . but I don't see where to buy them. It's not something I've ever heard of.

 

[pearlieq]

I was shocked at the amount of brand requests on the lists this year.

We are not in a tony area. We are in the outer exurbs of Chicago. My neighborhood is solidly middle class. People bought out here because land was cheap and they could afford a house, not because they were well off. My neighbors manage retail stores, work as cable installers, are nurses, etc. Mom and Dad both work--if they've been lucky these past 2 years.

Times are tough right now. Our schools are overcrowded and underfunded. I thought it was pretty insensitive to be so specific in so many places. I've heard plenty of arguments that Rose Art crayons are junk and that Fiskars scissors are the best, but I think in this climate we should just be happy the kid's family can afford supplies at all.

Weren't they thinking when they made up the lists? Is it really worth it?

 

[torinsmom]

All teachers should be differentiating the curriculum.

All teachers do to some extent, and for some times during the day. In Montessori, each child is doing their own work at their own level in each area of the curriculum all day long. At least in my classroom, 80-85% of the day includes individualized lessons for every child. The other 15-20% is specials and group line times.

Marsha

 

[kimblebee]

I will be heading down to Fargo, ND on Sept 1-3 for a shopping trip. Gotta love that exchange rate

Will school supplies still be out? I am planning on doing my daughters school supply shopping then because it is so much cheaper but will everything be out of stock or already put away?

 

[LilyWDW]

BTW, next weekend is tax free in Tennessee for clothing and school supplies! This is a huge savings for a lot of people. My area has a 9.5% sales tax, so that is a decent penny. Now, expect HUGE crowds... and possibly low stock. I was seeing lack of stock last weekend when I did my shopping. I do wish I had my money already so I could buy my Netbook with tax free, but will have to get it on Newegg instead later.

 

[MM27]

I will be heading down to Fargo, ND on Sept 1-3 for a shopping trip. Gotta love that exchange rate

Will school supplies still be out? I am planning on doing my daughters school supply shopping then because it is so much cheaper but will everything be out of stock or already put away?

You might be able to get some leftover stuff, but by early September, many of the stores are putting out their Halloween stuff.

 

[stm61]

All teachers do to some extent, and for some times during the day. In Montessori, each child is doing their own work at their own level in each area of the curriculum all day long. At least in my classroom, 80-85% of the day includes individualized lessons for every child. The other 15-20% is specials and group line times.

Marsha

Marsha,

I don't want to hijack the thread, but could you answer a Montessori question for me? I'm getting a kid this year, 5th grade, who went to a Montessori school through 3rd grade. The 4th grade teacher's biggest accomplishment was to get her to correctly write her name. No kidding, she wrote part of her middle because it was shorter, didn't know how to spell her first or last. Don't even ask about the academics. I understand Montessori allows the kids to choose what activities to do, but isn't there something in place to make sure the kids are completing the math, science, reading, etc, that they need to make it to the next grade? I'm not knocking Montessori, I'm just looking for an explanation for what could have happened with this student.
Thanks.

 

[torinsmom]

Marsha,

I don't want to hijack the thread, but could you answer a Montessori question for me? I'm getting a kid this year, 5th grade, who went to a Montessori school through 3rd grade. The 4th grade teacher's biggest accomplishment was to get her to correctly write her name. No kidding, she wrote part of her middle because it was shorter, didn't know how to spell her first or last. Don't even ask about the academics. I understand Montessori allows the kids to choose what activities to do, but isn't there something in place to make sure the kids are completing the math, science, reading, etc, that they need to make it to the next grade? I'm not knocking Montessori, I'm just looking for an explanation for what could have happened with this student.
Thanks.

That does not sound like a good Montessori school at all! Problem is, anyone can slap the name Montessori on a school. It's important to make sure a school is accredited with one of the major Montessori associations like AMS or AMI.

There is some freedom in Montessori, but it is freedom within limits. My kids have work plans for the week with the works they should complete. They can choose to do all math one day, but at some point they have to do the reading, writing, cultural studies, etc. on the work plan. The teachers are also very good at coaxing a child to work on something they are avoiding. So, say a child is resisting learning addition, but they love to play with dinosaurs. The teacher could use dinosaur counters and make up word problems with the dinosaurs. Doesn't like writing? Give them words to copy that they like--princess, castle, rainbow, etc for girls.

It is actually more common for kids coming from Montessori to be ahead of their peers. They move at their own pace, so some kids can easily be 2-3 grades ahead in a subject. Because the younger kids are observing the older kids working, they will often be very interested in learning more about the lessons leading up to that lesson. I have even had four year olds learn all their letter sounds by watching others doing the work. Suddenly they are just reading words in books.

Good luck with that child. I wonder if there is a learning disability?

Marsha

 

[princessmom29]

That does not sound like a good Montessori school at all! Problem is, anyone can slap the name Montessori on a school. It's important to make sure a school is accredited with one of the major Montessori associations like AMS or AMI.

There is some freedom in Montessori, but it is freedom within limits. My kids have work plans for the week with the works they should complete. They can choose to do all math one day, but at some point they have to do the reading, writing, cultural studies, etc. on the work plan. The teachers are also very good at coaxing a child to work on something they are avoiding. So, say a child is resisting learning addition, but they love to play with dinosaurs. The teacher could use dinosaur counters and make up word problems with the dinosaurs. Doesn't like writing? Give them words to copy that they like--princess, castle, rainbow, etc for girls.

It is actually more common for kids coming from Montessori to be ahead of their peers. They move at their own pace, so some kids can easily be 2-3 grades ahead in a subject. Because the younger kids are observing the older kids working, they will often be very interested in learning more about the lessons leading up to that lesson. I have even had four year olds learn all their letter sounds by watching others doing the work. Suddenly they are just reading words in books.

Good luck with that child. I wonder if there is a learning disability?

Marsha

I have seen the same thing she is seing over and over in high school, coming form a Mont. setting. serious skill gaps because "I don't like doing that". It is really more common than you would think. I have more Mont. children with skill gaps that need fixing than I do ahead of thier peers. Mabye it is just the types of programs offerd here, but that is waht we are seeing when they get to public school, usually in 9th grade.

 

[torinsmom]

That is surprising to me, as that is not what I have experienced. I have only worked in charter and public Montessori schools where we have to meet the state standards, but I have had a lot of experience with kids who have come from private Montessoris as well. Like you said, maybe it is different in different areas. I think the public perception is that kids run wild in Montessori, but that is just not the case. People that come and observe my class are just amazed at what these 4 and 5 year olds are doing.

Oh, and usually Montessori goes through 6th grade. Montessori middle schools are not very common. So for 9th graders, they would have had 2 years in public schools already.

Marsha

 

[AZMermaid]

I have seen the same thing she is seing over and over in high school, coming form a Mont. setting. serious skill gaps because "I don't like doing that". It is really more common than you would think. I have more Mont. children with skill gaps that need fixing than I do ahead of thier peers. Mabye it is just the types of programs offerd here, but that is waht we are seeing when they get to public school, usually in 9th grade.

I see this a lot even when they come to me as 3rd graders. I really like the Montessori philosophy for pre-k and K. I just haven't seen great results for higher grades and this is with kids in a half dozen or so (often very expensive) different Montessori schools. But, like all public, private, and charter schools- I am sure some are better than others.

 

[stm61]

I see this a lot even when they come to me as 3rd graders. I really like the Montessori philosophy for pre-k and K. I just haven't seen great results for higher grades and this is with kids in a half dozen or so (often very expensive) different Montessori schools. But, like all public, private, and charter schools- I am sure some are better than others.

She isn't the first Montessori kid we've had with skill gaps, she's just the worse so far. The 4th grade teacher (last yr's teacher) said she spoke with the parents several times and they said the kid was never forced to complete what she didn't want to do. Basically she just did what she liked and that was it. The mom really liked the Montessori idea and the district schools are very low scoring, so they kept her in through 3rd grade. When they realized how far behind she was they pulled her out.

In her case there is an LD issue. She's so far behind she can't cope in an LD room, she's in an EMD room for now. From what I remember from last year, when the regular ed teachers were asking for suggestions, she is capable of doing more, she was just never forced to anything so she didn't.

 

[spacemountainmom]

Wow. I find this so interesting...the difference between schools. And, once again, I say THANK GOD for Minnesota. We certainly don't have Hot Days here and the kids go out every single day for recess unless the wind chill is below -15 or something similar. So, they basically go out every single day but one or two all winter.

What I find most interesting is the class size. At our elementary school, the K classes average about 15 kids (my son had 13) and the first grade is roughly similar. I think, by 5th grade, they go up to 22 or so but I don't know Middle School numbers. We have all the specials in full force and no pay for play sports. Our Community is wonderful in supporting the schools (people get that their housing values have not declined due to the high quality of the schools...people WANT to live here) and always pass levies for school funding.

One thing that is really great about Minnesota is the Open Enrollment program. Basically, any kid can go to any school in the state as long as there is room. So, the schools really work very, very hard to be the best they can possibly be in order to attract as many students as possible (the money follows the student). So, we have all sorts of innovative programs and wonderful staff and facilities. I don't think there is a single teacher in our Elementary school with less than a Masters Degree.

I keep telling my husband that I will never leave this state until the kids are in college. We have too much of a good thing going here.

Good luck with your new school year. Hope everyone figures out all the supply stuff. We don't start until Sept 7th (a ridiculous MN law that you can't start til after Labor Day....keeps the resorts in business) but school supplies purchased in the Spring via the PTO (which gets them at cost and does not charge a fee...not a fundraiser...just something helpful to parents).

Can I ask where you live in MN? Those class sizes just aren't happening in my suburban east metro school district.

 

[taitai]

Can I ask where you live in MN? Those class sizes just aren't happening in my suburban east metro school district.

I live in the west metro area. District #276.

 

[pioneer89]

For the teachers and others that actually work in a school: Face it Parents that have never worked on a day-to-day basis with kids in a school room will NEVER understand the "whys" and "whats" of running a classroom. Keep doing what you do and don't worry about the complainers...they will never be happy no matter what you do.

Without hesitation, I can say that there are plenty of people out there who have never worked at a school who could do a much better job teaching than a lot of teachers. saying "NEVER" is about as wrong as you can be.

For the Parents who have never worked at a school: If you think you can do a better job then go earn your teaching degree and you can set your own rules for classroom management....until then buy your child the supplies he/she needs and stop whining like 2 year olds and let the paid professionals do their job.Just sayin'

I am not a teacher, but I am a professional, and I have to deal with people who are not professionals in my field all day long. Part of my job is to be able to effectively and efficiently explain my position to people who want me to do things that will not work. I am an Electrical Engineer for goodness sake, dealing with circuits and wires, things that carry almost zero emotional attatchment. Teachers deal with peoples children, I can't imagine the parent who would just let something that concerns them slide simple because a teacher tells them to "stop whining and let me do my job"

Thankfully most teachers understand this and are very good at communication and don't share this attitude. The interaction with parents is a key part of teaching, not something extra that has to be dealt with only if it can't be avoided.

 

[taylor3297]

Without hesitation, I can say that there are plenty of people out there who have never worked at a school who could do a much better job teaching than a lot of teachers. saying "NEVER" is about as wrong as you can be.



I am not a teacher, but I am a professional, and I have to deal with people who are not professionals in my field all day long. Part of my job is to be able to effectively and efficiently explain my position to people who want me to do things that will not work. I am an Electrical Engineer for goodness sake, dealing with circuits and wires, things that carry almost zero emotional attatchment. Teachers deal with peoples children, I can't imagine the parent who would just let something that concerns them slide simple because a teacher tells them to "stop whining and let me do my job"

Thankfully most teachers understand this and are very good at communication and don't share this attitude. The interaction with parents is a key part of teaching, not something extra that has to be dealt with only if it can't be avoided.

Teachers are professionals though many times we are told how to do our job better by others who are not in the profession. It would be like some one who has watched someone wiring something and then telling you how to do it better. Many people think they can teach just because they went to school so they have some knowledge as to what goes on in the classroom. Also, in other professions if someone is totally uncooperative, it can be suggested that person goes somewhere else. Teachers have to teach all kinds of children from all types of back grounds and cannot suggest for the parents to take the child elsewhere if they didn't like how the child was being taught.

I worked in the private sector before teaching and there are many options open to someone dealing with difficult customers in the private sector than in public education.

 

[princessmom29]

That is surprising to me, as that is not what I have experienced. I have only worked in charter and public Montessori schools where we have to meet the state standards, but I have had a lot of experience with kids who have come from private Montessoris as well. Like you said, maybe it is different in different areas. I think the public perception is that kids run wild in Montessori, but that is just not the case. People that come and observe my class are just amazed at what these 4 and 5 year olds are doing.

Oh, and usually Montessori goes through 6th grade. Montessori middle schools are not very common. So for 9th graders, they would have had 2 years in public schools already.

Marsha

I am getting kids from a couple of programs locally that are callingf themselves Mont. and go through 8th grade. These kids have had NO public school before they get to me. Some of them do fine, but many have serious skill gaps, usually focused around the subjects they "don't like". From what I am seeing of the kids coming out of it, the program is more like unschooling. There is NO structure or requirment about WHAT the kids are learning. They are given complete choice as to what they will and will not study.

 

[mum4jenn]

Without hesitation, I can say that there are plenty of people out there who have never worked at a school who could do a much better job teaching than a lot of teachers. saying "NEVER" is about as wrong as you can be.



I am not a teacher, but I am a professional, and I have to deal with people who are not professionals in my field all day long. Part of my job is to be able to effectively and efficiently explain my position to people who want me to do things that will not work. I am an Electrical Engineer for goodness sake, dealing with circuits and wires, things that carry almost zero emotional attatchment. Teachers deal with peoples children, I can't imagine the parent who would just let something that concerns them slide simple because a teacher tells them to "stop whining and let me do my job"

Thankfully most teachers understand this and are very good at communication and don't share this attitude. The interaction with parents is a key part of teaching, not something extra that has to be dealt with only if it can't be avoided.

The comments I made were in reference to the whining about school supplies which is what this thread was originally about. Lots of people were whining about color coding folders, putting glue and pencils in a communal box and other various complaints about how the teachers ask for brand specific items (because they are better).

 

[pioneer89]

Teachers are professionals though many times we are told how to do our job better by others who are not in the profession. It would be like some one who has watched someone wiring something and then telling you how to do it better. Many people think they can teach just because they went to school so they have some knowledge as to what goes on in the classroom. Also, in other professions if someone is totally uncooperative, it can be suggested that person goes somewhere else. Teachers have to teach all kinds of children from all types of back grounds and cannot suggest for the parents to take the child elsewhere if they didn't like how the child was being taught.

I worked in the private sector before teaching and there are many options open to someone dealing with difficult customers in the private sector than in public education.

Almost every professional is constantly being told by people outside the profession how to do the job better. Look through the threads here about how Disney is operated to get a small taste. People get second opinions on medical issues all the time. It's a fact of life that professionals have their work scrutinized closely all the time by people who are not professionals.

A professional should never outright reject an idea, concern, or question from a non professional without properly evaluation. People outside my profession have a perspective I don't, and often have a great deal of knowledge about portions of my job. The attitude that all people who are not teachers "don't know" or "Think they can teach" or "should just let me do my job" is the height of unprofessionalism. Professionals certainly don't have to do everything (or anything) an outside person says, but they need to be able to interact with them properly.

Often the only recourse I have if I don't like some design requirement or regulation is to quit and find a different job. So teachers are not unique by any stretch. They chose a profession where they are dealing with children, thus dealing with parents goes right along with it. Not being capable of dealing with all parents is like a plumber who will only work with supply lines, and refuse to deal with drains or vents. They can only do half the job.

Thankfully all of the teachers I’ve had to deal with have been consummate professionals.