Attitudes Toward Teachers

[Pigeon]

The OP of the quote was using an adult as an example and I was providing a situation where it applies. He is an adult and he knows he has to do what he needs to do to get his job done and he does it without complaining. If anybody is frustrated by it, it's me!

As far as being compensated for it - when he works on next years school work during the summer, he is not being compensated for it since his contract is literally 9 months. Pigeon, out of all of the posters you should know that since your husband is a teacher. When he does do work during the school year, technically he is being compensated for it, but at what cost? He lost a lot of family time that everybody is saying is so important.

My husband went into teaching as a career change about 12 years ago. It was a substantial decrease in pay, but actually, it gives him way more family time than he ever got in the corporate world. Yes, he brings some work home, but he's not stuck at the office till 7pm every night. It's gotten better as he's stopped dishing out so much inane homework to his students, and also as he's been teaching longer. He still needs to prep, but it's not like starting from scratch.

He gets much more vacation than the typical 2-3 weeks off per year that he got before. It has its stresses, but overall, it's a better job for him. I don't think anyone goes into teaching without realizing that you will be doing some preparation at home.

 

[Pigeon]

I believe your DH's program must have been similar to mine! 80% fluff and BS. And self esteem boosting, if you can believe it?!

My favorite part was a section in one text on genetics. It explained at great length (but no actual scientific facts) why human babies cannot grow up to be egrets, complete with a large color photo of both a baby and an egret. Do they expect all teacher trainees to be from Mars?

Ahh, self-esteem. Dh always jokes that yes, students do have a self-esteem problem. The problem is that they've got too much of it, without having done anything to earn it.

 

[In a hurry]

My favorite part was a section in one text on genetics. It explained at great length (but no actual scientific facts) why human babies cannot grow up to be egrets, complete with a large color photo of both a baby and an egret. Do they expect all teacher trainees to be from Mars?

Ahh, self-esteem. Dh always jokes that yes, students do have a self-esteem problem. The problem is that they've got too much of it, without having done anything to earn it.

I'm sure it comforted your husband greatly that your child wasn't going to grow up into an egret!

I swear they practiced self esteem builders on us. Give it up!

Kids (even adults!) who work, and learn feel good about doing so. Problem solved.

 

[ORMom2Four]

We have had good, and bad teachers for our children. There was the teacher who took my daughter's entire 5th grade class on a just-for-fun weekend trip--on her own dime. There was the teacher who truly loved my son so much she got tears in her eyes when he left her class to move on another grade. There was the teacher who called each students home every few weeks just to check in.

Then we have had the bad teachers. The teacher who grabbed and twisted my child's arm when she was frustrated. The teacher who went behind my back to put my child in a class that I asked he not be placed in. The teacher who constantly ridiculed my son to the point he became depressed and cried the entire year. There was the kindergarden teacher who was so sweet when she talked to parents, and then screamed constantly at the kids.

When a teacher starts to notice that there are "no good parents", she/he needs to start looking at what they are doing themselves. I can tell you that I, and the other parents, were very helpful and very supportive to those good teachers.

 

[4greatboys]

I think most of the teacher rantings were related to a specific teach and/or incident.

Everyone I'm sure has had good and bad experiences. My boys have had some teachers that we all loved and then they have had some I felt should not be teaching at all.

I have one son that just graduated high school. School was hard for him and he did have a struggle to get through some areas. However he had a handful of teachers through his years in high school that made such a difference for him he now wants to be a high school teacher so he can be one of the ones that can make a difference.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

WOW..... Just WOW....


So, you are 'defensive' if a parent has a concern, or wishes to present a differing viewpoint.

You have a 'MASTERS' which seems to make you feel that you are inerrant and GOD. (your policies, homework, actions, etc.. must be accepted, in total, as law, without any input or concerns by parents)

You openly 'parent bash'... (with broad negative statements that kids aren't getting what they should at home...)

You purport yourself to be not only a teacher, but "teacher, nurse, counselor, social worker, parole officer, ETC." Again with the GOD complex...

Then, add in the whole attitude of the completely wrong and baseless assumption that a parent must hate the schools, and that if there are concerns, that they should just walk... depriving their child of the education that has been mandated for ALL children.

WOW. What a classic example of how teachers can, and have, contributed to the so called us-versus-them mentality.

I apologize that I misread the intent of your quote, I did not realize that you were being sarcastic. I will absolutely listen to anything a parent or student has to tell me, but I would be lying if I said that the method of delivery didn't affect me at all. I am automatically going to be defensive if a parent comes in with guns blazing before their child has even set foot in my classroom, and that is what it sounded like you do. Will I try to work through that natural inclination? Absolutely. However, it is still there, I felt that for the purposes of this trehad it was best to be honest. Did I say that I will be defensive with every parent who has a concern? No. I simply ask that parents treat me with respect, I don't think that's an unreasonable request.

The reason I brought up the degree aspect is that I feel strongly that I do not walk into somebody's office and automatically assume that I know more about their job than they do. A doctor, a lawyer, etc. all have taken a lot of time and effort to get their degree to learn how to do their job. There is a lot behind the scenes that I will never know about, and to me the thought of going in and demanding that they do their job a certain way is ludicrous. I don't tell a manager how to manage their restaurant, if I have a concern I try to voice it politely. I respect that other people have spent much time and money training to do their job, whether in a formal educational setting, or through some kind of on the job training. I think it is important to respect that. I also expect the same kind of respect from parents. So yes, please share your concerns, I can't fix it if I don't know it's a problem, but do it in a respectful manner and be willing to consider that there might be more than one side to the issue. That is all I am saying. I apologize that I did not get that across before.

I also did not mean to insinuate that your children spend countless hours playing video games, this is simply a general observation based on the children that I have interacted with through the schools, community, and babysitting. I felt that it was unfair for you to blame schools for childhood obesity when there are a myriad of other factors involved.

As I said before, I absolutely welcome any parent to share a concern with me, I want the parents to be involved.

I hope this clarifies things a little more.

 

[GeorgiaPeach8]

I think what she is trying to state is that a Masters isn't the Holy Grail a lot of people seem to think it should be. Sometimes they "pay off", sometimes they don't.

My friends DH, private sector, big company, has a Masters and didn't receive a single penny more in compensation because of it, in his current position. Now if he chooses to apply for a different position, one that pays more, it may potentially work to his advantage that he has a Masters. Then again, maybe not. It doesn't necessarily follow that a Masters degree automatically guarentees an increase in income: it has it's limitations.

I agree...Masters are not the be all end all. But your friend's master was not required to keep his job. I am required to have a masters.

I think when teachers talk about having a Masters it isn't (as Wishing on a Star thinks) because we think that makes us better, it is a tangible thing to show the public that we deserve better pay. It is an attempt at comparison to other jobs...i.e. Masters degrees are rare and should receive appropriate compensation. If a masters degree isn't going to guarentee a pay increase than what's the point?? In the words of the movie Good Will Hunting...I can get the same education for a buck fifty in late charges at the public library.

Also, I find it odd that Wishing and several others point out that teachers are only human but with Eeyore confessed to being defensive she was slam-dunked.

I will confess...when parent critize my teaching I do find it hard not to be defensive. It is called criticism for a reason. Plus, I try to do my very best at my job. It is difficult to face the fact that someone thinks you aren't great.

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

My husband went into teaching as a career change about 12 years ago. It was a substantial decrease in pay, but actually, it gives him way more family time than he ever got in the corporate world. Yes, he brings some work home, but he's not stuck at the office till 7pm every night. It's gotten better as he's stopped dishing out so much inane homework to his students, and also as he's been teaching longer. He still needs to prep, but it's not like starting from scratch.

He gets much more vacation than the typical 2-3 weeks off per year that he got before. It has its stresses, but overall, it's a better job for him. I don't think anyone goes into teaching without realizing that you will be doing some preparation at home.

My dad graduated from college and went right into teaching. He has been a hard worker since I can remember...both in and out of school. Before his heart attack in February of 2007, he would be at school by 7:30am, stay until dinner (which would be around 6:30-7pm) and then go back to school to work until 11pm when the school would close. He now spends more time at home, but still tends to do school work at night. Technically he could retire soon, but I don't see that happening. He cares too much for his students and his love of teaching. (I don't think I mentioned, he teaches special education.)

Also, I find it odd that Wishing and several others point out that teachers are only human but with Eeyore confessed to being defensive she was slam-dunked.

I will confess...when parent critize my teaching I do find it hard not to be defensive. It is called criticism for a reason. Plus, I try to do my very best at my job. It is difficult to face the fact that someone thinks you aren't great.

Very good post!

I know that if somebody would critize me at my job I would be very defensive. It's only human nature to be defensive. Nobody is perfect, not parents, not teachers, not people who work at non-profits like myself.

 

[MM27]

When a teacher starts to notice that there are "no good parents", she/he needs to start looking at what they are doing themselves. I can tell you that I, and the other parents, were very helpful and very supportive to those good teachers.

I agree 100%. I also believe that when parents can't find any good in any of the teachers they come into contact with then they need to look at themselves and start to ask questions. The one that I spoke about before has had problems with every teacher since kindergarten with the child I had this year and before that she had problems with all of her daughter's teachers. I've come to the realization this year that there are some people that I am not going to be able to reach and as my principal and vp have told me numerous times this year, that's okay. I sometimes stress myself out over these things, and I have to learn that I'm not a magician and can't change people.

The majority of the parents that I work with are wonderful. I'm all for open communication and finding out what is best for children. That being said, I am also a professional and I am well read on best practices in education. I would be open to reading anything a parent brought to me. The expectation that my practices would automatically change because of something that a parent brought me though blows my mind. Just because the poster that gives the books to the teachers hasn't seen change in the hw being given doesn't mean that the teacher didn't read it. It could mean that perhaps they didn't agree with it. I just hope that the parent that gives the book to read wouldn't be offended if the teacher gave her an article or book to read herself.

 

[MrsPete]

I think it has less to do with teachers than public education as a whole having a very poor reputation right now.

I think there's a great deal of truth to this. We as a society are short-changing our students these days -- we don't expect enough of them -- and of course it shows up in school.

I think the pay/tenure structure doesn't play a big role. The only time it ccomes up that I see it is when a really bad teacher is locked in with tenure.

Tenure doens't mean a teacher can't be fired -- it means he or she cannot be fired WITHOUT CAUSE. A first-year teacher who isn't tenured could do a fantastic job teaching, and could be "let go" because someone who's qualified to coach basketball comes along. A tenured teacher's job is more secure; he or she cannot be "let go" unless he or she has done something wrong in the classroom. Those "wrong" things are spelled out very specifically, and they're the things that the general public would agree should constitute firing.

I was a teacher and found myself frustrated with the lack of support from parents and the way they'd jump all over me if I contacted them about a problem.

DId you teach high school? This is EXACTLY what we see! We send home paperwork to parents, publish schedules on our webpages, send emails, make phone calls -- no one cares; it's as if once the kids can drive, the parents check out of their educations. But once a bad grade comes home on the report card, it's, "Why didn't you tell me such and such project was assigned? How can he make up these missing grades? He can't go to summer school!" Since I teach seniors EVERY YEAR I have a couple students whose parents ignore my calls all year, then suddenly they expect me to be a personal tutor every day during the last month of school so that their son or daughter can "make up" in all the few weeks before graduation what he or she couldn't manage to do in the previous months!

As I stated earlier. If a child knows the concept, 5 to 10 problems (average) is enough to enforce. If they don't know it, 50 is hell, and will only reinforce wrong procedures. Oftentimes it is 50, because that is what is on their worksheet.

Ideally, the child should do 5-10 in class AND CHECK THEM WITH THE GROUP so he knows they're right -- then the 50 for homework are practice /reinforcement. Depending upon the type of problem, 50 might be too much or even too little (think elementary kids memorizing single digit x single digit multiplication -- 100 wouldn't be too much for that situation).

 

[Pigeon]

The majority of the parents that I work with are wonderful. I'm all for open communication and finding out what is best for children. That being said, I am also a professional and I am well read on best practices in education. I would be open to reading anything a parent brought to me. The expectation that my practices would automatically change because of something that a parent brought me though blows my mind. Just because the poster that gives the books to the teachers hasn't seen change in the hw being given doesn't mean that the teacher didn't read it. It could mean that perhaps they didn't agree with it. I just hope that the parent that gives the book to read wouldn't be offended if the teacher gave her an article or book to read herself.

I have found that most teachers know absolutely nothing about the research findings in the educational literature. Most of them don't even know how research is published or where to find it. I don't consider the books I provide to be the be-all and end-all on the subject. They are, however, extremely well researched, and have extensive bibliographies on the subject.

I don't expect teachers to immediately change their practices the minute I give them some books.

What I do expect, for example, is that the teacher be able to give me some explanation of why their homework policy is totally at odds with the overwhelming preponderance of evidence about the effectiveness of homework.

Ours is a pretty good district overall. I'm quick to give praise when they do things right. I often write letters to the principal at the end of the school year to praise good teachers, particularly if I know the teacher is untenured.

But when a district that takes up considerable real-estate in their newsletters about "evidenced-based" approaches to education has policies that are in direct contradition to the evidence, I have no qualms about pointing that out either. That's my job as a parent and as a tax payer who places a very high value on public education. Unfortunately, the usual response is the deer in the headlights look, with no indication that there is any intelligent thought process behind those practices.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

Pigeon, I really appreciate your posts. That's what I was trying to say in my earlier post - that when I studied the research on how children learn (and I was very interested in it, so went considerably beyond what was covered in class) and compared that with what was done in schools where I was observing and student-teaching, it was pretty discouraging. I found just what you said - most teachers and school administrators are completely unfamiliar with the research and have policies and practices that are not at all consistent with the evidence.

Teresa

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

Pigeon, I really appreciate your posts. That's what I was trying to say in my earlier post - that when I studied the research on how children learn (and I was very interested in it, so went considerably beyond what was covered in class) and compared that with what was done in schools where I was observing and student-teaching, it was pretty discouraging. I found just what you said - most teachers and school administrators are completely unfamiliar with the research and have policies and practices that are not at all consistent with the evidence.

Teresa

My sister has sort of been following this thread with me. After reading some of the responses she said to me that she only gives her students one page of homework a night. She teaches special education so it's mostly math homework and it's not to punish the parents, it's to see if they are actually understanding and are retaining the concepts she teaches during the day. When she assigns homework, it's with the kids best interest in mind.

 

[Pigeon]

My sister has sort of been following this thread with me. After reading some of the responses she said to me that she only gives her students one page of homework a night. She teaches special education so it's mostly math homework and it's not to punish the parents, it's to see if they are actually understanding and are retaining the concepts she teaches during the day. When she assigns homework, it's with the kids best interest in mind.

I'm sure that just about all teachers think that whatever they are doing is in the best interests of the kids. I think most teachers have very good intent.

But that's irrelevant.

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

I'm sure that just about all teachers think that whatever they are doing is in the best interests of the kids. I think most teachers have very good intent.

But that's irrelevant.

What is irrelevant? My post?

Does your husband assign homework? Since you don't seem to like homework, I was wondering if your husband had the same beliefs about homework.

 

[In a hurry]

What is irrelevant? My post?

Does your husband assign homework? Since you don't seem to like homework, I was wondering if your husband had the same beliefs about homework.

I believe Pigeon meant that the positive intent of the teachers is irrelevant if their methods don't work.

 

[In a hurry]

LOL, I answered your question...but was moved back to the previous page...the gremlins are at work today!

 

[MM27]

I believe Pigeon meant that the positive intent of the teachers is irrelevant if their methods don't work.

By whose standard? Who is saying the methods don't work, a parent who read a book or article?

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

I believe Pigeon meant that the positive intent of the teachers is irrelevant if their methods don't work.

Wow that was weird...my question was answered before it was even posted! Computers can be so funky!

My question now is, who decided their methods don't work? Is it the research that is done by somebody who sits in an office who just observes students but has very little classroom experience, parents or by reports that are done by the teachers to help track the students progress?

 

[In a hurry]

By whose standard? Who is saying the methods don't work, a parent who read a book or article?

There is peer reviewed research that shows this. As is the case with research and stats, there is contradictory research as well.

Subjectively, I can say in my 25 years of teaching 3rd, 1st, and occasionally Middle School that I give some homework. I believe a minimal amt. allows the child to practice without ingraining negative habits. My classes have always scored high (not that I personally care for standardized tests), allowing me to be left alone. My admin. is smart enough to not try to fix what is broken. I don't teach fads, I believe that family time and exercise are as important as practicing times tables. We have plenty of time for that in class.

eta: If you are interested you can always google. I did a quick search, and came up with several articles. Some were only available on microfiche, however.