Attitudes Toward Teachers

[RitaZ.]

By whose standard? Who is saying the methods don't work, a parent who read a book or article?

I believe that the current state of our education system speaks for itself.

 

[Pigeon]

Wow that was weird...my question was answered before it was even posted! Computers can be so funky!

My question now is, who decided their methods don't work? Is it the research that is done by somebody who sits in an office who just observes students but has very little classroom experience, parents or by reports that are done by the teachers to help track the students progress?

Yes, I meant the teacher's intent is irrelevant if what they are doing is detrimental to the student. I don't care that my kids' teachers think they are doing it for my kids' own good, if in fact, they are making my kids hate learning, and make no academic gains attributable to the homework. There was going to be more to that post, but the Disboards were acting really wonky for me earlier and posted in the middle of something.

Research is published in the peer-reviewed literature of a discipline. The research in education is done by different groups, including classroom teachers, administrators, PhD candidates and research faculty. Generally speaking, the group of subjects are divided into a control and an experimental group. The results are compared, analysed and submitted to the refereed literature. The results are distributed blindly to several people who are recognized as being authoritative in the field before (if) it is deemed valid for publication.

With social science research dealing with humans, the results are very seldom 100% conclusive, as In A Hurry mentioned. However, one can look at the preponderance of the literature to draw valid conclusions.

Education is a very funny field, in that sometimes the conclusion the authors come to is at odds with their actual data, often for personal, institutional and political reasons. That's why you have to read the actual studies to understand the findings. That's one thing I like very much about Kohn's work. He is great about finding the studies where the data says one thing, but because the researcher has his or her own agenda, and manages to make some very odd conclusions. When you get your hands on the actual literature and read it, it would be funny if it weren't so damaging. This is the case for much of the literature that makes recommendations in favor of homework. When you look at their data, it says exactly the opposite.

 

[Pigeon]

What is irrelevant? My post?

Does your husband assign homework? Since you don't seem to like homework, I was wondering if your husband had the same beliefs about homework.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean your post was irrelevant, I meant the intent is irrelevant. The board hiccoughed on me and posted in the middle of what I was writing.

My husband teaches middle school science. There is some evidence to support the usefulness of a small amount of homework in the older grades, (but it is still far from compelling.)

He used to assign the typical amount, lots of carefully crafted projects with "higher learning" objectives, etc. Then he started seeing the effects of homework on our kids, and he started reading the literature.

He scaled way back on the homework and gives much, much less. His standardized test scores have actually gone up, and he finds the kids more engaged during class.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

The problem with research is that you can always find contradicting research. Much educational research is action research and case studies, it is not conducted in a laboratory setting so you cannot draw firm conclusions from it. You can make inferences, certainly, but hard and fast conclusions, no. I find it hard to believe that most teachers do not know how to access research. The majority of teachers belong to organizations such as NEA that publish research frequently. I myself am a member of CEC (sped professional organization) and use the research on their site frequently. There is also the ERIC database.

I had an undergrad major in psych and have had several research classes, I also had to take an educational measurement and assessment class. This is required for certification in MO. A major focus of this class was research. Whenever you have a research study, you have to be able to look beyond face value. You have to look at their methods, the reliability and validity of the data. You have to look at the kind of research. Was a true laboratory experiment (the only type in which variable A can be said to cause the change in variable B) or was it another type of research? Most research relies on correlations which means that you cannot prove cause and effect.

The other big issue with research is that most issues are not cut and dry. Studies frequently contradict eachother. Being peer reviewed does not mean that the conclusions are right, it only means that proper procedures were followed. All research, whether an article or a book, has an extensive list of sources that they cite. In the end, you have to read research on both sides and draw your own conclusions based on what the research shows. You also have to realize that research that takes place in a lab setting may not always work well in a diverse classroom.

Finally, what wroks for one teacher does not work for another. A great example is Ron Clarke. He has 55 rules for his classroom! Research has shown that you really shouldn't have more than 10. However, it worked for him. Anytime you apply research in a real world setting, you have to be able to adapt it to your population and circumstances since typically research is done with a limited population sample. Try it out- but be ready to modify it or chuck it out the window if it doesn't work with your group of students.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I'd like to turn this thread around and make it a positive.

As many have pointed out, I do not have children and do not see things from your perspective. I know how I feel about my won experiences in school with homework, learning, etc., but that does not mean that everybody has the same experience. As a teacher, what can can I do to build a positive relationship with you the parent?

One thing I have already thought of is sending home a weekly newsletter that explains what will be happening in the class that week. I plan to include a rationale for any projects, and suggestions for how to help your child at home.

The other thing I can think of off the top of my head is inviting parents to come in and discuss any concerns with me about their student, the school, etc.

 

[In a hurry]

I'd like to turn this thread around and make it a positive.

As many have pointed out, I do not have children and do not see things from your perspective. I know how I feel about my won experiences in school with homework, learning, etc., but that does not mean that everybody has the same experience. As a teacher, what can can I do to build a positive relationship with you the parent?

One thing I have already thought of is sending home a weekly newsletter that explains what will be happening in the class that week. I plan to include a rationale for any projects, and suggestions for how to help your child at home.

The other thing I can think of off the top of my head is inviting parents to come in and discuss any concerns with me about their student, the school, etc.

Sorry, I don't tend to think of discussions as negative.

That said, if you want parents to respect you, respect them. Realize they may have had bad experiences before, and you might have to earn that respect. Just like you may have a parent or two who drive you batty (I usually have at least one) and not to take that attitude out on others. Stay away from the gossipers in the school. It might seem like harmless venting, but you will be brought down by it. Negative emotions shouldn't be nurtured. You will also find yourself prejudging kids. Always sad.

Sending home friendly notes, or your newsletter is a nice thing to do. Just don't send too much stuff, or it starts to be a PITB. Don't send a bunch of projects that I have to spend $25 on, and do myself.

Engage with the whole student, and that means the whole family sometimes. It is hard to do with some. But the payoff, is awesome when you cut through the issues, and you give the next years teacher a step up.

Respect the life of the child, not just your stuff. Kids are stressed these days. They have to worry about testing (try not to emphasize!) and all of their other activities. Families are being pulled apart, and pasted back together randomly. Oftentimes there isn't any support for a mom. Try to be a bit of that support. Not buddy buddy, but as a team trying to do the best thing possible for the child.

 

[Pigeon]

I'd like to turn this thread around and make it a positive.

As many have pointed out, I do not have children and do not see things from your perspective. I know how I feel about my won experiences in school with homework, learning, etc., but that does not mean that everybody has the same experience. As a teacher, what can can I do to build a positive relationship with you the parent?

One thing I have already thought of is sending home a weekly newsletter that explains what will be happening in the class that week. I plan to include a rationale for any projects, and suggestions for how to help your child at home.

The other thing I can think of off the top of my head is inviting parents to come in and discuss any concerns with me about their student, the school, etc.

I'm faculty a university and I see (and help) the teachers who know absolutely nothing about research on a daily basis.

Your newsletter is good. These are the norm in our elementary school and they are useful for parents.

As for the projects, before you assign them, think long and hard about why you should be dictating to parents and students about what they do on their own time. Think about why these projects cannot be done in the seven hours per day that you have the kids in school. No matter how fun you think you are making a project, it is drudgery for kids (and their parents) who have been in school all day.

Do not assume that every parent who disagrees with you about something does it because they are lazy, ignorant, or disengaged. It might just be that they care about education every bit as much as you do. Listen to them with an open mind.

Don't overestimate what you've learned getting your masters. Theory is nice, but hands on experience is far more important.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Pigeon: Thank you for the suggestions. I will say this- with our program we have a lot of experience in the schools before we get our degree. My program is part of a professional development school, so we spend over five times the amount of required hours in the classroom before we get our degree. Whenever a school cannot fill a teaching slot, they come to our university to hire interns. This means that many people are doing their student teaching as a teacher of record, so they are fully responsible for the classroom and are being paid the teacher's salary. This is because of the reputation our program has, and one of the reasons I chose this particular one. I absolutely agree about needing experience, one of my criticisms of a textbook I had last semester was that it did not appear to be grounded in reality. Teaching summer school this year was an eye-opening experience, and I'm looking forward to gaining more during the professional development school next semester.

I did pick up a copy of Alfie Kohn's book, as I have been wanting to for awhile now. I am trying to keep an open mind, but I must admit I do not agree with what he has written so far. That being said, I'm still in the second chapter so it's too early to pass judgment. I do hope that he goes beyond the negative and offers some positive suggestions instead of just bashing the way that things are done without offering any solutions. I will let you know what i think when I finish reading it.