At what age is it no longer appropriate for kids to be pantless when company is over?

[NYCgrrl]

OK..I learned that things had changed from my kiddos' upbringing years when I found out in the '90's that "etiquette experts" were giving classes in how to eat at a white cloth topped restaurant for middle school children @ $150 a session. Current price is 300.00 for a 1-2 hour class. Had nooo idea how far fast food eatery manners had been intergrated into American society before then.

Don't want to pay that kind of money for something that was formerly learned at home? Along with game, Pizza Fridays, and date nights, institute an eating in courses with real silverware and table napery night for the family. Could be the best of all worlds with children having the ease of eating without pants, hands first some nights and knowing how to interact with the bigger world for other meals.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I have a sweatshirt that hangs on a hook by the door that I can throw on for just such moments, I am sure people think I am crazy when it is 100F out and I am opening the door in a sweatshirt but it is what it is.

Excellent idea!

I do think it’s odd for a 5 year old to be running around without pants outdoors without extenuating circumstances, even in his own yard (and I would consider it “his yard” even though its shared with Grandma’s house).

Agreed.

 

[morgan98]

Do you believe kids shouldn't have to follow random rules due to societal expectations prior to school? Having taught for 35 years, I've certainly seen this belief, but the last several years is when it has been very prevalent. When kids have never been expected to do things they didn't want to do because parents didn't see the point prior to school it's a problem. This child will probably be starting school in a week. I hope for him that he's able to wear pants, carry his own lunchbox, walk in, sit in a chair, etc. I see threads on here all the time about kindergarten readiness and honestly, this is readiness.

There are lots of issues being discussed on this thread. I think the "should we put boundaries on young children" is an important one. I don't think it should be totally abandoned because of the secondary "should you say anything about it" one.

I do think it is important for kids to follow societal rules and to learn them from an early age so they are somewhat the norm. However, this kid was five years old and basically at home with close family. He did not leave to go to someone else's home without pants on or go to a restaurant or store without pants or attend a wedding reception with no pants. Yes, I know from the OP that this was technically at grandma's house, which is connected to the child's house. I am sure in the kid's mind there may not be much difference.

This is also a weekly dinner which must mean it is very familiar and somewhat ordinary from the aspect that it happens all the time. Because of the particular circumstances here, I am not so sure the lack of pants in this case is a huge red flag.

I also realize that the OP has come back to provide additional commentary to provide background so it seems like some big breach of protocol occurred.

I am still in the camp that given these circumstances, I do not think this was anything for the OP to get that bent out of shape about. If the dinner was at the OP's house, I could get on board with her making some type of remark to nudge the kid to put on pants. If it was a big deal to grandma, grandma could have or should have said something.

ETA: I actually am surprising myself because I am extremely modest and cannot believe I am supporting being pantless.

 

[superme80]

The ages of 4 or 5 are when I start cracking down on wearing pants when people are over. My 7 year old hates clothes. I am constantly on him to wear pants when family is over. Thankfully he is doing much better now. There are just days where clothes rarely happen.

 

[NYCgrrl]

I do think it is important for kids to follow societal rules and to learn them from an early age so they are somewhat the norm. However, this kid was five years old and basically at home with close family. He did not leave to go to someone else's home without pants on or go to a restaurant or store without pants or attend a wedding reception with no pants. Yes, I know from the OP that this was technically at grandma's house, which is connected to the child's house. I am sure in the kid's mind there may not be much difference.

This is also a weekly dinner which must mean it is very familiar and somewhat ordinary from the aspect that it happens all the time. Because of the particular circumstances here, I am not so sure the lack of pants in this case is a huge red flag.

I also realize that the OP has come back to provide additional commentary to provide background so it seems like some big breach of protocol occurred.

I am still in the camp that given these circumstances, I do not think this was anything for the OP to get that bent out of shape about. If the dinner was at the OP's house, I could get on board with her making some type of remark to nudge the kid to put on pants. If it was a big deal to grandma, grandma could have or should have said something.

ETA: I actually am surprising myself because I am extremely modest and cannot believe I am supporting being pantless.

As a child we ate at different grandparents' homes every other Sunday. Sure it was familiar in the sense that we dressed a certain way, set the table to be helpful (did that at home too), knew Nana was going to eat a cold meal from jumping up and down from the table to offer more hot food; Grandma served family style meals and gigantic care package type shopping bags and gosh everybody wore pants, LOL.
Children are vessels of learning but you have to teach them to fill the vessel up.

 

[BLAZEY]

But I agree that this thread is more about whether it is a guest’s place to say anything to the child if the parents didn’t. I think that completely depends on the relationship.

I probably WOULD say something to my sister’s kids (and she’d say something to mine.) I know her well enough to know her expectations and I would be doing what I thought she would find acceptable. That is, I know what is considered “socially acceptable” within our family. We have spent a lot of time together though. I don’t think we’re considered “company” in each others’ homes — nor in our parents’ home. I do think sometimes kids “listen better” and feel less nagged when stuff comes from another adult, other than their parents.

I would NOT say anything to my sister-in-law’s kids. SIL is often on high-alert for any perceived criticism, especially of her parenting, and can twist things that are not meant to be insults. I *might* back her up if she’d already said something and the child still hadn’t done it. For instance “Hey buddy… I heard your mom ask you to put pants on, so let’s go do that right now, okay?” But I would definitely NOT be the first one to bring it up (unless I thought the child was in immediate danger, which does not seem to be the case for the OP.)

You’ve got to know your audience. Since the OP commented that she often babysits the kids, I thought maybe her situation was closer to my relationship with my sister. But her subsequent descriptions of her sister, the kids and describing herself as ‘company’ leads me to believe it’s probably closer to my second scenario… in which case, i would butt out![/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say anything to my sister-in-laws kids either we don't have that type of relationship. As stated in the first post our Aunt (Great Aunt to pantless child, and the girls) from out of town was also at dinner. We have corrected each others kids before, maybe she was just tired that day, who knows? Some people are making more out that part than my sister did as it's water under the bridge now.

 

[smiths02]

Do you believe kids shouldn't have to follow random rules due to societal expectations prior to school? Having taught for 35 years, I've certainly seen this belief, but the last several years is when it has been very prevalent. When kids have never been expected to do things they didn't want to do because parents didn't see the point prior to school it's a problem. This child will probably be starting school in a week. I hope for him that he's able to wear pants, carry his own lunchbox, walk in, sit in a chair, etc. I see threads on here all the time about kindergarten readiness and honestly, this is readiness.

There are lots of issues being discussed on this thread. I think the "should we put boundaries on young children" is an important one. I don't think it should be totally abandoned because of the secondary "should you say anything about it" one.

I believe they should follow societal rules in public settings prior to school.

This child was at home with family, so that is where I think it is not as big of a deal. Again, my children generally wear pants, but some people are nudists at home and still productive members of society (a former VP of the US comes to mind).

 

[Nancyg56]

I wouldn't say anything to my sister-in-laws kids either we don't have that type of relationship. As stated in the first post our Aunt (Great Aunt to pantless child, and the girls) from out of town was also at dinner. We have corrected each others kids before, maybe she was just tired that day, who knows? Some people are making more out that part than my sister did as it's water under the bridge now.

You are lucky. I would have a chat with my sister about her ever stepping in between my DH and me, no matter the situation. I would instigate that kind of discussion in anyone's marriage, and would not tolerate that interference in mine. I would then let it go, knowing my sister would respect that she overstepped big time. My husband, on the other hand, would never let this go, even if he had agreed that my sister was right. He is a firm believer in a couple presenting a united front in front of children, as do I, and would not allow anyone to undermine me.

 

[LovesTimone]

The little boy talking back should be an issue... how is that going to play out in school when his teacher, coach, principle, policeman, tells him to do something or not to do something. Would the they be wrong in giving him directions. So why in the world would and uncle or aunt or any family member be wrong in telling the kid to go put on some pants? What if he was getting into the candy jar, should you just let him, or climbing up on the counters.

This situation depends on what type of relationship everyone has with each other. It takes a village to raise a child. I would tell my niece or nephew to put on pants, shut the door and quit running in and out, use your napkin, get off of the counter before you fall, you better get out of that cookie jar right now....whatever.... I really don't think that there's anything wrong with another adult giving their family some directions. As long as it was done in a appropriate manner.

 

[aprilgail]

It’s 10:45, I just made ds20 put on shorts so he could pick up my shoprite order. 15 minutes ago a pse&g guy rang the doorbell to check the basement for gas leaks, DH had to hide. DH is upstairs in his boxers still. We joke about them needing door pants (and me a door bra...)

LOL- when I go to one of my neighbors houses it always takes a few for the husband to answer the door because he is always in his underwear and has to pull on some shorts!

I would not have an issue with a 5 year old running around their own home in their underwear- and I certainly would not tell someone in their own home what to do.

 

[moon]

Five year old is not necessarily school-aged. According to OP, he has not started kindergarten. Not all that long ago (a little over 30 years ago), a lot of places did not have kindergarten...school started around age 6 at 1st grade. School is not compulsory where I live until 6.

Also, the kid was at his house with his family. For most kids, that is different rules.

Just because some wait until six doesn't mean 5 is not school-aged, since many (most?) are starting school at five. Anyway, even for those who start at six, why wait until then to expect such basic social behavior as wearing pants?

This little boy will start school in a few days, yet he thinks it is OK to walk around and sit at the table without pants. There is a chance that he will want to be without pants at school too, since it's not big deal at home.

When I was five I would have been mortified to be walking around in a shirt and underwear in front of my uncles, aunts and cousins. It would have never happened, because I was used to be dressed since I remember.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

I actually don't agree that kids that age don't/can't differentiate between appropriate behaviors at home vs. school.

The kid not wearing pants at dinner isn't an issue for me, I wouldn't allow it personally, but it's not a huge deal.

Knowing more of a back story about the OP and the SIL (and the current climate of the marriage between the BIL and her) I probably wouldn't have said anything. If everything was okay between everyone, I stand by my opinion that I would have addressed my nephew. It sounds like the kid is facing some challenges and his parents are aware of them. That being said and being the case, I WILL agree with everyone else that OP should stay out of it. It doesn't sound like a typical dynamic at this point.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

When I was five I would have been mortified to be walking around in a shirt and underwear in front of my uncles, aunts and cousins. It would have never happened, because I was used to be dressed since I remember.

I think it really depends on the child. Mine were raised to be fully dressed outside of their bedroom but I still have to remind DD to put pants on as she wanders downstairs for breakfast. My son is fully dressed, teeth brushed, and face washed before he comes down. I have some nieces that are shy and want privacy, and others who whip their clothes off in front of we aunts ans uncles. I think a lot of someone's modesty is in their personality, and a little of it is taught.

 

[mjkacmom]

Just because some wait until six doesn't mean 5 is not school-aged, since many (most?) are starting school at five. Anyway, even for those who start at six, why wait until then to expect such basic social behavior as wearing pants?

This little boy will start school in a few days, yet he thinks it is OK to walk around and sit at the table without pants. There is a chance that he will want to be without pants at school too, since it's not big deal at home.

When I was five I would have been mortified to be walking around in a shirt and underwear in front of my uncles, aunts and cousins. It would have never happened, because I was used to be dressed since I remember.

DH was painting the bathroom today, no pants until 4 pm, and he ate 2 meals.

 

[mom2rtk]

Do you believe kids shouldn't have to follow random rules due to societal expectations prior to school? Having taught for 35 years, I've certainly seen this belief, but the last several years is when it has been very prevalent. When kids have never been expected to do things they didn't want to do because parents didn't see the point prior to school it's a problem. This child will probably be starting school in a week. I hope for him that he's able to wear pants, carry his own lunchbox, walk in, sit in a chair, etc. I see threads on here all the time about kindergarten readiness and honestly, this is readiness.

There are lots of issues being discussed on this thread. I think the "should we put boundaries on young children" is an important one. I don't think it should be totally abandoned because of the secondary "should you say anything about it" one.

I don't think there's much disagreement here about whether there should be boundaries for young children. But more about who should set them.

 

[morgan98]

DH was painting the bathroom today, no pants until 4 pm, and he ate 2 meals.

Hope you have some family member visit and shame him into putting on his pants.

He cannot possibly be or become a productive member of society if he takes his pants off at home! I mean if he takes his pants off at home, how does he know to put them on for work?

 

[mjkacmom]

Hope you have some family member visit and shame him into putting on his pants.

He cannot possibly be or become a productive member of society if he takes his pants off at home! I mean if he takes his pants off at home, how does he know to put them on for work?

Actually, he can work from home 99% of the time, I try to get him to
go to the office as much as possible. He spends most of the day on work calls (financial services industry). He spends many hours working in his boxers.

 

[piccolopat]

I think kids should be fully dressed whenever they are outside of their bedrooms but especially when in public or when company is over. I also think throwing on a cute diaper cover is preferable to having an infant or toddler in a diaper only. It's much less confusing for kids if the rules don't change as they get older or based on where they are or if someone is visiting.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

What if the boy prefers dresses or skirts to pants when he is at home? Pass the smelling salts and hand me my pearls. As a society we are doomed.

 

[BLAZEY]

I actually don't agree that kids that age don't/can't differentiate between appropriate behaviors at home vs. school.

The kid not wearing pants at dinner isn't an issue for me, I wouldn't allow it personally, but it's not a huge deal.

Knowing more of a back story about the OP and the SIL (and the current climate of the marriage between the BIL and her) I probably wouldn't have said anything. If everything was okay between everyone, I stand by my opinion that I would have addressed my nephew. It sounds like the kid is facing some challenges and his parents are aware of them. That being said and being the case, I WILL agree with everyone else that OP should stay out of it. It doesn't sound like a typical dynamic at this point.

My sister and her husband's marriage is just fine, a difference of opinion between them on whether their son can pee a few feet from the dinner table and has to wear pants when people outside the immediate family are over is not going to end in divorce.