Article on College Debt- so true it makes me cry

[MyGoofy26]

So what's your solution? Let me guess - tax the "rich" more and distribute it. Many people you would consider "rich" are the people that start and own the businesses that would employ your children.

Putting your hopes and dreams of your prosperity in politicians is a losing strategy.

What I wonder is why more people don't question what these colleges and universities are doing with these tuition dollars. Are they being spent wisely? Are they being spent on things other than education and research? Are they requiring our kids to take courses that will ultimately have little value to their careers, but given for the primary purpose of employing adults and satisfying certain special interest groups or board members or administrator's agendas?

It seems as if they just keep increasing tuition fees year after year at twice the rate of inflation (or more) and it's just accepted and never questioned.

You're absolutely correct about the schools constant increase in tuition - people never seem to hold them at all accountable for the escalating costs.

I want to preface this by saying that I loved my education - I loved the departments I was in for my two degrees and feel like I learned a lot. But the university as a whole I could go on for days with complaints - one of the biggest being that the school is treated as a "front" for sports. Regular students trying to get an education pay the price - literally and figuratively. Granted football and, to a lesser extent, basketball bring in a lot of money. . . but THAT money and not tuition money should be going towards the upgrades the university is making. Yes, it's nice to have a shiny new library, but at the cost of millions of dollars paid for by annual tuition hikes? No. The old stacks served their purpose just fine. Big new rec center? Yes, very nice. . . but again, millions of dollars nice? The school acts like they're doing students a favor by upgrading and adding on when in reality they're doing it to attract the best athletes. If they truly cared about the students and education they'd take that money and stop cutting teaching staff so that there are enough classes to go around and students don't have to count on an extra year or two to finish just because of poor scheduling. And don't even get me started on the dumbed down versions of classes for the athletes who are just there to kill time til the draft so they can keep passing classes to keep playing.

 

[DVCLiz]

Yep, when I was in college people from those areas came to our state schools IN DROVES because our state universities were better quality and lower cost than their in-state schools. I'd estimate that 10-20% of the people in my dorm were from up North.
I graduated in 1988. At that point you could be a full-time student here for 5-7K per year.

Don't get me wrong: We have SOME excellent private colleges here, but most of them are just average -- and a few are places for kids with money who didn't work hard in high school. On the other hand, 1/3 of our state universities are absolutely top-notch -- you'd only do better if you went to one of the Ivy League schools. The other 2/3 are very, very good. None of them are "loser schools"; whereas some of our private schools would fit that category.

Hi, Mrs. Pete, tried to PM you, but it wasn't an option. Would you be willing to share your opinions about those schools, by any chance? Just curious to see if we agree, or if you have knowledge of some schools I don't know well. In particular, which private colleges do you think are for kids with money who didn't work hard in high school? And which private schools do you think are top notch?? Also, which public schools fit your 1/3 designation????

Again, just curious!!

 

[mickeyluv'r]

So what's your solution? Let me guess - tax the "rich" more and distribute it. Many people you would consider "rich" are the people that start and own the businesses that would employ your children.

No. Those are your words, not mine. Not mine at all... how mistaken you are my friend about my feelings

This is getting OT but,
The solution isn't simple. I think the issue is far more complicated than simple sayings like "Tax and Spend" or "cut and run," such attacks do no good whatsoever. Getting mad at me probably won't help either.

 

[dvcgirl]

So what's your solution? Let me guess - tax the "rich" more and distribute it. Many people you would consider "rich" are the people that start and own the businesses that would employ your children.

Putting your hopes and dreams of your prosperity in politicians is a losing strategy.

What I wonder is why more people don't question what these colleges and universities are doing with these tuition dollars. Are they being spent wisely? Are they being spent on things other than education and research? Are they requiring our kids to take courses that will ultimately have little value to their careers, but given for the primary purpose of employing adults and satisfying certain special interest groups or board members or administrator's agendas?

It seems as if they just keep increasing tuition fees year after year at twice the rate of inflation (or more) and it's just accepted and never questioned.

You bring up an excellent point......are these university and college increases being questioned? If not, they surely should be. In some cases though, the college loses funding for some reason and then tuition goes up...as in the case of Rutgers this year. We are helping to put our nephew through college and we just heard that there will be an 8% increase because of NJ's budget problems.

Also though, I think that kids today really need more of an education on the concept of "return on investment" with respect to the majors. We have a few friends with kids who are in private colleges, mostly paid for with student loans (borrowed by the parents and the kid) with majors such as Drama and Psych. We're talking 34K a year for Fairleigh Dickinson in NJ (tuition room/board), certainly not a top tier school. The one girl will come out with 75K+ in loans when she's done with a major in Drama. Good luck with that one. At 18 years of age, she has no concept of what she's getting herself into.....

 

[kkmcan]

I went to a local community college in 1990. Transferred to University of Arizona in Tucson. Got my BA in education. Lived at home and worked part time at a dept store to pay for my car, insurance and fun stuff. I was lucky enough that my parents paid for my tuition and books so no loans to pay off. I hope this same senario works when my kids go (DD is 9, DS is 6) because unless they get full scholarships for an out of town or out of state school, they'll be livin' at home, working and going to community college.

Thing is, is I'm a stay at home mom now after teaching for 6 years. And probably will not return to teaching so all in all it was kind of a waste. Although I'm the only college graduate in my whole extended family so that's a real honor to me!

 

[mking624]

because unless they get full scholarships for an out of town or out of state school, they'll be livin' at home, working and going to community college.

Shouldn't this be their choice?

 

[disykat]

I think most of us think we're going to be able to do the same thing our parents did, and have the same sort of lifestyle, but that's not the reality that's developing. .

I disagree with this. I think most kids now think they are going to be able to immediately have what their parents worked a lifetime for. They forget that their parents probably rented for a few years before buying a starter home, forgoing vacations and fancy cars while they were getting started.

Even graduating in the early 80's recession I was able to achieve these goals sooner than my parents did in the 60's. In the 90's it seemed to me that kids were able to jump into high priced lifestyles - but that was a relatively short lived phenomenon. I think things are more back to "normal" now - meaning you'll have to actually to earn your way into a more lavish lifestyle by living through some leaner years of paying off student loans and saving for downpayments.

 

[tinker&belle]

I may be speaking too early, but I don't see my loans as a burden like so many in these types of articles do. Sure a part of them were a waste (I was burnt out, trying to figure out what I wanted to do but mom wouldn't let me leave school so I wasted a couple years and had to basically start over once I figured out the path I wanted to take - ok THAT I'm a little bitter about, LOL) but I'd have never made it through without them. I tried a number of semesters paying cash, but when my accounts dried up it was a HUGE relief to be able to get money so I didn't have to stop for another year and save.

I locked in my loans pretty low - can't remember exact, under 3.5%. 3.3 maybe? My payments will be $187 a month for 15 years. Certainly manageable. My biggest "worry" right now is do I take extra money from the pay and save it? Or pay off early? I'd love to knock those loans out quicker, but with even just a savings account like my ING I can get more in interest than I'm paying in interest. So I'm trying to figure out which is better - peace of mind of not having loans that long. . . or the extra couple percent in interest I could pocket.

I've also taken cost of living into consideration. If all goes well, I'll be starting a job in about a month (I think it's mine but waiting on official word) in Pittsburgh. MUCH better cost of living than DC, NYC, etc. I'd even have the option of commuting from home for awhile . . . although sadly with gas prices, it probably won't cost much more to get an apartment, LOL!!

Another issue to take into account is that the interest on these loans are tax deductible! We were rushing to pay these off, but when we saw hwo much the deduction was, we are in more of a hurry to pay off our car loans which are about double the interest.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Thing is, is I'm a stay at home mom now after teaching for 6 years. And probably will not return to teaching so all in all it was kind of a waste. Although I'm the only college graduate in my whole extended family so that's a real honor to me!

I would NEVER consider my education a waste.

There is no problem with being a SAHM and nothing that says that a SAHM mom shouldn't have a college education.

First off--we aren't in the 1700s where a woman's goal in life was to be married or she had nothing (just saw Pride and Prejudice this weekend. ).

So unless you could predict your future in that realm--what would you have done if not for college.

Do you expect to be not employed forever?

What about when the kids go back to school?

What about when they graduate school?

You do realize at anytime-bring yourself up to date with any necessary coursework and POOF--you can get a job.

What if your husband died?

For me--I can immediately get a masters degree (Would be necessary as I have been out so long). I don't have to wait four years to get a regular degree.

Also in my extra-curricular activities (Church leadership positions and fundraising for charities)--skills I learned or was taught in school were invaluable for my activities.

It is sad that a woman must say her education was wasted time just b/c she chose to stay home and raise her children.

We aren't in the 1700s and our goals in life are more widespread than courtship, marriage, and child rearing.


Proud Conservative SAHM--with a non-waste of time degree

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Shouldn't this be their choice?

Sure.

But it sounds like she is being a wise parent and able to help her kids with that education.

Sending your child off to college to accrue 10s of thousands in debt is not a wise parenting move.

At least she is being honest with her kids.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I cannot resist..I am sorry OP--if someone else paid for your vacations..then I will eat my words..

But how can you be so upset about your status in life:

Because his parents could not afford to help him during those four years, we will be in debt for the first ten or more years of our life together. We are delaying marriage, as well as many other things, because of financial reasons. It is also one of the biggest reasons why I consider not having children. We're 26. We don't want to have kids unless we're financially stable, but if that doesn't happen until we're 36, or older, is it fair to start a family at that age?

I live with my parents. He has a very low cost apartment (for Northern NJ at least) We share a tiny used (almost 10 years old) car. I get to work an hour early so he can drop me off before he goes to work. We are living economically as well.

Yet you are going on your 2nd annual New Year's DISNEY cruise while staying at the Poly and the Pop during the holidays the most expensive time at Disney.

I do ask this in all seriousness.

Often times we complain about our lot in life--but it is hard to be taken seriously when you look at the source from all angles. I didn't take the article seriously (biased towards extravagent areas to live when the subjects could have gone to much cheaper areas). And your signature just baffles me in relation to your posts.

If you and your SO are footing the bill...it just leaves me confused. Forgoing a life together so that you can just take vacations. You want to blame the cost of education, but it isn't the complete picture. Not one person in the article was taking vacations. (they could be--but that would make it more difficult for readers to feel pity over their dire circumstance and possibly wasn't mentioned for that reason).

If someone else is paying--my apologies as that has happened here on the boards as well (people misconstruing a situation based on a siggy of future vacations).

(**not meant as a personal attack-it has been bothering me since yesterday and I am trying to inquire as tactfully as possible as it is pertinent to the discussion--the choices we make and the consequences).

 

[wellesleyprincess]

When I graduate, I'll be roughly $7500 in debt. I consider myself lucky that that is all as I go to private school. I think a big problem with all of this a lot of times forget about college debt other than loans. Most people I know who just have loans are fine afterwards. It is not SUPER easy but they never stress making there payments as long as they're working. It's the credit card debt @ 19+% interest that makes it tough.

 

[JoiseyMom]

One of my hang-ups about student loans, however, is that the student doesn't really have the financial savvy to make this decision. How does an 18-year old just out of high school make an informed decision about payments on something for the next 30 years? He's barely old enough to legally take on debt, and he's allowed to borrow against essentially his entire working career? I hope parents are heavily involved in these decisions.

My son was 17 when he went off to college. He knew what school he wanted to go to, and applied for an ROTC scholarship to make it happen. He also knew that since we were having financial issues he would have to take out loans. Since he was still 17 I had to co-sign his first loan. He just graduated and has a handle on his student debt.

State schools in my area are a great bargain. An in-state student can attend an excellent school for 10-12K per year (that's tuition and fees, a dorm room, and a meal plan -- all the basics). Our 16 state universities are also much better quality than some of the mediocre private schools in the area (not knocking all private schools, but I'd be downright disappointed if my daughters chose some of them).

It is great that you have such wonderful inexpensive in state schools. Alot of people don't have that option. Rutgers is the major state school by us, and they are not cheap.

Private schools offer just enough "extra aid" to keep the "it's just as cheap myth" going, but every student at every school isn't going to find this a reality; furthermore, many private schools offer heavy financial incentives for the freshman year only, which leaves the student with a difficult decision when he reaches his sophomore year: stay at the school where he's already comfortable, or seek out a new school and possibly lose credits.

I have never heard of that before. My sons school based the financial aid on what our FAFSA said. My ds got as much financial aid as was needed. And even though our FAFSA score said we had to contribute more then we had, they adjusted it due to our current financial situations.

But that's the point: The average just-out-of-high-school kid doesn't have the financial skills to make these decisions. Actually, many adults don't have them either. If they did, the average American would have a large 401K and a small collection of credit cards -- we know that the opposite is true. I think our society has a very unhealthy attitude towards debt, and we're starting our best and brightest on a difficult road when we accept that student loans are "inevitable".).

Depending on where you live, and your income and what you want, it is inevitable. Some people don't care, and just want and will have to deal with the debt. Others like my son, knew and is paying it off, and will be fine.

I bought a house two years out of college, and I was 100% debt-free at age 38.

In today's economy, this is just not possible today. My bil moved out of his parents house and bought his own house. He saved his money, and was able to find something affordable, but he did have problems qualifying for a mortgage with a decent interest rate. If this was happening today, he couldn't afford it. My oldest ds is 22, and has a job, but he can't afford an aprtment on his own let alone buy anything locally. The townhouse I bought 15 years ago for 119k, and sold 7 years ago for 160k, is now selling for over 300k. My ds is going to have to move out of state or somewhere very south in NJ, if he wants to buy a home. Maybe in certain parts of the country you can buy real estate cheaply, but not where we are.

I think there's a fine line here between reasonable and excessive expectations. I do think a person who's been out of college a few years should be able to -- with careful spending -- buy a small house. People who can't are usually over-burdened with student debt, or they are unwilling to accept the idea that they need to buy a starter-house first.
It's a matter of priorities.

Again, this depends on where you live. If you are living in Metro NY, or NJ or any major city, this isn't possible. You can't touch real estate in my area under 300k, and these are the starter fix it houses, or townhouses.

 

[arminnie]

Shouldn't this be their choice?

I agree with that. I had so many friends whose parents made them stay home and go to community college. I went off to school and ended up with what would be about $30,000 worth of debt in todays dollars, but I made SO much more money than they did afterwards too - same degree, same type of work.

Plus I got a MUCH better education. They were taking courses the first year of college that we'd had as sophomores in high school. I had classmates who were smart and challenged me. When I went to a few courses at the community college, my classmates were 90% dolts and everything was dumbed down to them.

I don't believe in borrowing money to go to a mediocre school, but to get a great education it can really be worth it. And there are some places where the community colleges are great and the percentage of dolts is miniscule. There are so many factors here that there is no one answer.

 

[MrsPete]

Shouldn't this be their choice?

Few 18-year olds are financially self-sufficient. As long as mom and dad are helping them financially, they have every right to say, "You may choose within these boundaries." It's better parenting than saying, "Choose anything you want, run up a big debt, and pay it off over the course of your entire working career."

 

[MrsPete]

I disagree with this. I think most kids now think they are going to be able to immediately have what their parents worked a lifetime for. They forget that their parents probably rented for a few years before buying a starter home, forgoing vacations and fancy cars while they were getting started.

Even graduating in the early 80's recession I was able to achieve these goals sooner than my parents did in the 60's. In the 90's it seemed to me that kids were able to jump into high priced lifestyles - but that was a relatively short lived phenomenon. I think things are more back to "normal" now - meaning you'll have to actually to earn your way into a more lavish lifestyle by living through some leaner years of paying off student loans and saving for downpayments.

There's some truth to this, but there's also another wrinkle in the problem: With easy credit, today's graduate CAN immediately have many of the things mom and dad saved for -- but it'll cost 'em in the long run, and many won't realize the true cost until they're in over their heads.

Also, in the past a person who wanted to live frugally had plenty of company; today -- with more media, more advertising, more two-income families, access to easy credit -- I think people have to work harder at being frugal. It's not impossible, but it means going against the grain of our society in a way.

 

[MrsPete]

There is no problem with being a SAHM and nothing that says that a SAHM mom shouldn't have a college education.

I intend to send my two daughter to college. I want them each to earn a degree in a field that'll allow them to support themselves (and their future families) comfortably.

Once they're married, however, if they don't work, I will not consider my money wasted. The point is that they'll always be qualified to work if the need or desire should arise, and that's worth every penny.

 

[punkin]

I intend to send my two daughter to college. I want them each to earn a degree in a field that'll allow them to support themselves (and their future families) comfortably.

Once they're married, however, if they don't work, I will not consider my money wasted. The point is that they'll always be qualified to work if the need or desire should arise, and that's worth every penny.

I stay home with a law degree and an economics degree from a very expensive college. I don't think my education was a waste. My daughters will also get the best education possible based on their abilities and desires. What they decide to do with that education later in life is entirely up to them.

 

[SandraVB79]

I read a couple of posts, not the whole thread.

I agree that getting an education in the US is very expensive, and those loans can be a problem to start up a life once you are graduated. But it's nt any different in other places.

Here, getting a "regular" degree (bachelors and masters) costs you about $750 a year in tuition. You have to add all the expenses you need for your living. BUt you can also do like me, and keep on living at home while you study and commute.
Why is it so cheap? Because we pay about 50% income tax and 21% sales tax and many more other taxes. That way, with everything you do/ buy, you pay a little bit, and you don't have to pay for it all at once. Of course, if you don't go to university yourself, or don't have any children that do so, you paid "for nothing".

I graduated, no loans (thank you grandparents to help me pay that MBA-year), but I still live with my parents, I don't even have a used car, and I don't have to think about getting a house/ appartment. Because of all the high taxes, there is not enough money left to start my own life. I didn't end up with a huge loan, but I ended up with a smaller net income.

In the end, the result is the same.

 

[MrsPete]

My son was 17 when he went off to college. He knew what school he wanted to go to, and applied for an ROTC scholarship to make it happen. He also knew that since we were having financial issues he would have to take out loans. Since he was still 17 I had to co-sign his first loan. He just graduated and has a handle on his student debt.

The ROTC scholarship is a great thing for students interested in military service, and I know it's highly competative -- good for him! However, because of that scholarship, I suspect he's not a typical student loan borrower. That scholarship is essentially a full ride (doesn't it even give a monthly allowance?), so he couldn't have been forced to borrow much.

I have never heard of that before. My sons school based the financial aid on what our FAFSA said. My ds got as much financial aid as was needed. And even though our FAFSA score said we had to contribute more then we had, they adjusted it due to our current financial situations.

The pervasive myth is that "everyone" can go to a private college for the same price -- or even less than -- a state school. Why? Because private college students get finanical aid through the government, PLUS there's all this free money floating around the private schools, which is given to students. In reality, this happy situation occurs for a few students -- not the majority. While it's worth looking into, it'd be foolish to assume that it will become truth for every student, and if it does happen, it's foolish to assume that the college will follow through with the same offer every year until graduation.

So your son received federal financial aid, had the ROTC scholarship, and STILL had to borrow? Wow. That must've been some expensive school.

Depending on where you live, and your income and what you want, it is inevitable. Some people don't care, and just want and will have to deal with the debt. Others like my son, knew and is paying it off, and will be fine.

The word inevitable is what I have a problem with. There are so many choices: less expensive schools, going to school part time, co-op programs -- I think most people don't even consider these options before taking out big loans. I'll give you an example: I became an RA after my first year of college. The school gave me a free place to live, paid 50% of my tuition and a portion of my meal plan (and because I didn't receive a paycheck, no taxes). That greatly cut the cost of my education. Don't get me wrong: I was still working like a dog at another job to pay what this job didn't pay, but the RA job really brought it into the realm of possible for me. This particular deal might not be available to everyone, but MANY opportunities like this exist, and students who want to avoid loans can seek them out.

In today's economy, this is just not possible today.

I did it in today's economy! It was only a couple years ago that we paid off our house and became debt-free. I agree that it's really close to impossible in some geographic areas, but the real keys are frugal living and avoiding all debt.