Article on College Debt- so true it makes me cry

[robinb]

I intend to send my two daughter to college. I want them each to earn a degree in a field that'll allow them to support themselves (and their future families) comfortably.

Once they're married, however, if they don't work, I will not consider my money wasted. The point is that they'll always be qualified to work if the need or desire should arise, and that's worth every penny.

This is OT, but a very good point. One I struggle with myself. I have a BS in Computer Sciences and was making a very nice salary before I became pregnant and stayed home with my DD. 7 years later and with my DD starting 2nd grade and no return to work in sight I begin to think that my degree was indeed wasted. Then I think about what might happen if something should happen to my husband or my marriage and I know that I made the right decision. I have been taking classed to keep my resume "refreshed" and I could jump right back into the workforce into a well paying job in a matter of weeks. My DD is at an age that many of her friend's families are "splitting up" and it is very sad to see the women who have worked only part-time or not at all suddenly need to find a job ... any job ... to feed their kids.

 

[MrsPete]

I agree with that. I had so many friends whose parents made them stay home and go to community college. I went off to school and ended up with what would be about $30,000 worth of debt in todays dollars, but I made SO much more money than they did afterwards too - same degree, same type of work.

I don't think anyone has suggested that community college degree should be the ultimate goal -- just an inexpensive starting place for those who can't afford or aren't ready for a full-scale university. In my area community colleges offer only AA or AS degrees, so I wouldn't expect those graduates to make the same money as a person with a BA or a BS.

My husband earned an associate's degree in drafting from a community college (thought he wanted to be an architect), then he went on to a state university, where he earned a BS in engineering. Because he now has the bachelor's degree, employers wouldn't pay any attention to the AS -- it's only the last degree that matters.

 

[MrsPete]

My DD is at an age that many of her friend's families are "splitting up" and it is very sad to see the women who have worked only part-time or not at all suddenly need to find a job ... any job ... to feed their kids.

I was the child in that very situation. My dad paid no child support -- whole different story, many twists and ugly turns. My mom had only a high school diploma (and half a semester of college before she dropped out). She'd worked a couple years in a clerical position for Eastern Airlines, but in her decade-plus absence from the work force, even her clerical skills had been made useless by the advent of the computer. She had nothing to fall back upon and a whole houseful of kids to support.

In my mom's generation, many women found themselves in this situation: they'd bought into the ideals of previous generations, who'd accepted that marriage was forever, women were supposed to stay home with the kids, you stuck it out for the kids . . . they were blindsided when suddenly divorce became acceptable and child support was not easy to collect. TODAY, however, women have grown up with different expectations -- there's no excuse for allowing oneself to be caught in the lurch as so many women were in the past. That's why I insist that my daughters will earn college degrees -- even if they just look pretty hanging on the wall.

 

[crisi]

I'm a 38 year old current college student. My first "most of a BA" (I never wrote the thesis required for my major) is Art History, minors in Women's Studies and History, from the University of Minnesota. When I decided to go back, I decided to major in the more practical Accounting and am doing it from the lower tier Metropolitan State University. My first three years were funded by my father (tuition) and myself (living expenses). The last year I had a scholarship. I'm self funding my current college education (though I could get tuition reimbursement from work, it isn't in my current manager's budget and I don't want strings. I'm doing this for myself, not because my employer wants it).

If I go full time, and live at home (I don't go full time, I go half time year round), its less than $6000 a year - eight credits is about $1400 a semester ($169 a credit). Tha'ts instate, outstate is about twice that. (It takes a year of living in Minnesota to acquire residence) Most of the students in my classes work full time and go to school part time. A few work part time and go to school full time. Some take out loans and many qualify for financial aid. It is, however, very common to use the tuition reimbursement from their employers - I know a lot of Wells Fargo employees - they qualify for a $5,000 a year tuition reimbursement. UPS is $3000 a year. That goes a long way to helping pay for college. It may take eight years instead of four - and many of my classmates are working their back ends off between school and job.

From an opportunity cost standpoint, having a private college education in four years, but leaving $100,000+ in debt, or having a public education with less than $10,000 in debt but taking nine years (one year to get residency, eight to finish school) while working as a teller at Wells Fargo......

We are saving to put our kids through the same private frou frou college my husband went to - at $40,000 a year in today's dollars. It was a great experience for him. But if we have the money (and the kids will be allowed to use it for a state school and the rest for a downpayment on a home), that seems different than the debt.

To me, I think one of the things that has happened is that it used to be that private schools were something for the rich or those that were basically going to get a free ride in terms of grants and scholarships. Somewhere, something changed. Qualifing for a loan seemed "nearly as good" from a financial aid standpoint to people as getting a grant or a scholarship. And people started to feel that a private college education should be acheivable for the middle class.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

Hi! I haven't had time to read all the posts, so I apologize if this is somehow incomplete

Well, it is half and half- we pay about 50% of our cost -you see my bf and I have *hinted strongly* that we would appreciate Disney gifts the most. So, for Christmas, birthdays, Easter, etc. whenever we receive gifts, my family (3 brothers, 2 of whom make quite comfortable salaries, very close Aunt and Uncle, and parents) is kind enough to give it in the form of Disney Dollars or a check for Disney Cruise. We almost never receive clothes, gift cards, etc. Just Disney.

The rest of everything, we do pay for ourselves. We consider this our gifts to each other. Like the Cruise was last year's birthday and Christmas present to each other. We would rather enjoy a vacation than spend money on jewelry, flowers, or other gift items. Last year's Cruise was our first vacation together in four years and this year, we decided to do it again as our gifts for this year. We don't mind receiving no gifts all year long, we find creative ways to slip little reminders of the Cruise in, instead.

However, 75% of ithe portion we pay (about) doesn't come out of either of our salaries. I sell Avon. My Avon income automatically goes into my ING savings account. I also work an after school job (I'm a teacher) at a gym. That money also goes into my vacation ING. I am teaching summer school, too. (Well, today was my last day We got out early, too.) and that money goes for our trip as well. My boyfriend also sells on Ebay and deposits his income into our vacation ING. We also deposit our tax refunds here. This is how we vacation without using any money from our primary income.

I don't think this is a personal attack at all. I can see how other people might see my vacation tickers and think that I am a *spender*. It makes sense. However, I am still wearing clothes from five years ago. I haven't had my nails done professionally since college ((3 years ago) etc. We don't go out to eat hardly ever. We don't buy movies, go out for drinks, etc. We are extremely frugal 350 days out of the year. It's all about choices. And BTW, we did a 4 day sea, 3 day land cruise at the Poly and added a day at the Pop last year. This time, we're just doing the 4 days cruise- it's less than half the cost. We are cruising again, but not the exact same way.


Now for the article- this all started because I was ticked off that NJ's education budget has been cut and there are extreme cuts to college and university budgets. This frosted my cookies and when I read the article, I was a little fired up. I just feel like the government isn't doing the right thing by putting people in such a hole before they even start a life. More cuts to colleges will mean that less people can afford an education and that started my anger- mostly at this whole situation, not *my*situation.

As I've said before, I am very lucky that I was able to graduate debt free. I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me. I am not that upset about *my* situation as I am upset about the general situation of all graduates. I do not feel like crying for me personally as much as I feel that many young graduates are being put into a poor situation that seems unfair. This is an odd time in history because education costs are at an all time high. Taxes and the cost of living are high, too. Social security and pensions are no longer expected. And on top of it all, there is little job security. The axioms of "Study hard, stay in school, do well in life" seem so untrue to me now. It is possible to do all that, and struggle. I have read in several places (I will try to look later- I have to leave in a few minutes) that this generation entering the workforce now, is the FIRST generation that will NOT be financially better off than their parents, but WORSE. This is what bothers me so much.

I feel that so much depends upon parents and their personality as well as socioeconomic status rather than the hard work of the actual student. My bf worked harder in college than I did because he had multiple jobs as well as being a full time college student yet he has more bills now. I was thinking about the differences as I read the article and it bothered me because I feel like unless you have parents who are willing and able to help, you can easily get "stuck" before you can start your life.

The reason I posted the article is because I so often hear people say just so to a state school, and you can do ok. However, I wanted to point out two things 1) It is difficult for people who have to go it alone and don't get parental support, no matter what their college choice. AND 2) When people decide to get married, they in effect *own* another set of circumstances.

Rereading my post, I can see how others might have thought I was throwing a pity party. That wasn't my intention. I know there are millions of people worse off than me. I just felt like the article spoke to how I felt about the situation in general- not me specifically.

First, I went to a state school. I was lucky enough to have an on campus job as a PA (in a freshman residence hall) and still haave time to be in a sorority, be on Dean's List, etc. I graduated without debt, had two job offers before June ended and had calls coming in all summer even after I accepted other jobs. I had a savings account before I had a job. I was extremely lucky.

My BF also went to a state school. His parents didn't give him a red hot penny. He had several jobs. He also was on the Dean's List, etc. He graduated with a large chunk of debt which he is slowly paying off. He has a job, but he is overqualified for it, although he is being trained to take his boss' place when she retires, which would double his salary.

You're right, though. The choices we make do affect our situations. I could cancel my vacations, add a few thousand or so to my savings. (We also have a savings account, which I am considering transferring to a CD, which will go for our wedding costs ) I think that we get more enjoyment out of a vacation than material gifts and since my family is willing to *subsidize* and my BF is also willing to forego birthday, anniversary, and Christmas gifts from me, it's best for us. It keeps us working hard all year and gives us something to look forward to. We already have a wonderful life together. I would like to get married so I can share that with everyone, but our life together is going strong. I am not complaining about vacation costs, because that is my decision. I could easily buy myself nothing, not even a vacation all year, and I would save more for the wedding. Although, this year may be our last Disney vacation for a few years to save up more for the wedding. (At least until our honeymoon! )

So, we are postponing our wedding, etc. until we have enough saved up to pay for a decent wedding. That is also a choice. I could get married by a JOP this summer. (My mother would pass out, though) Weddings are very big in my family. My brothers have all paid a large chunk for theirs. The latest one was in 2002 and it cost close to 50,000. I feel a great deal of pressure from my family to save up until we can have an "acceptable" "classy" affair. Not a huge, expensive wedding, but one that will not be talked badly about by our relatives and friends, you know? After every wedding, we hear the praise and criticism of the foods, band, flowers, colors and I wouldn't want my whole family to remember my special day as "cheap" or "tacky" so we need to save up a little to make it a nice, special day. Will it be the way I would dream it and have everything perfect? No. But I'd prefer to save up for a few more years to have it remembered as a special day.

Anyway, those are my answers. I really do appreciate all the responses. I didn't post it because I wanted pity for me. More than anything, I feel bad for others. I had some help and I will be able to help my BF pay off his college debt once we're married. But, if we *both* had debt like this, I don't know if we'd ever make it. That's why I feel like college loans are getting out of control and why I feel bad that very few people are doing anything about it. I really wish our government could do something to make education not only available but feasible to all those who work hard, even if their parents can't afford it. It seems if one is completely destitute, one can be on EOF. If one is rich, one can afford college, but the middle class does not qualify for help- I feel that the middle class is going to be squeezed into an upper and a lower class based on this if it continues.

Anyway, I hope that answered all questions. I'm sorry it it sounded like it was a personal rant- it was really focused on this whole societal/governmental situation.

So what if I'm 30 when I get married, and I won't have a Disney wedding. Life could be worse. The little ways that this problem affects me are not half as bad as for others.

I cannot resist..I am sorry OP--if someone else paid for your vacations..then I will eat my words..

But how can you be so upset about your status in life:






Yet you are going on your 2nd annual New Year's DISNEY cruise while staying at the Poly and the Pop during the holidays the most expensive time at Disney.

I do ask this in all seriousness.

Often times we complain about our lot in life--but it is hard to be taken seriously when you look at the source from all angles. I didn't take the article seriously (biased towards extravagent areas to live when the subjects could have gone to much cheaper areas). And your signature just baffles me in relation to your posts.

If you and your SO are footing the bill...it just leaves me confused. Forgoing a life together so that you can just take vacations. You want to blame the cost of education, but it isn't the complete picture. Not one person in the article was taking vacations. (they could be--but that would make it more difficult for readers to feel pity over their dire circumstance and possibly wasn't mentioned for that reason).

If someone else is paying--my apologies as that has happened here on the boards as well (people misconstruing a situation based on a siggy of future vacations).

(**not meant as a personal attack-it has been bothering me since yesterday and I am trying to inquire as tactfully as possible as it is pertinent to the discussion--the choices we make and the consequences).

 

[disneysteve]

I feel a great deal of pressure from my family to save up until we can have an "acceptable" "classy" affair. Not a huge, expensive wedding, but one that will not be talked badly about by our relatives and friends, you know?

If your family wants you to have a "classy" wedding, let them pay for it. If you are paying for it, you need to have the wedding that you can comfortably afford. It is a very dangerous road to travel if you are going to feel forced to live up to other people's expectations - keeping up with the Joneses. Not the way you want to start your lives together.

 

[robinb]

So what if I'm 30 when I get married, and I won't have a Disney wedding. Life could be worse. The little ways that this problem affects me are not half as bad as for others.

I was 32 with paid off car, paid off student loans and my DH and I bought a house between our wedding and our honeymoon. We also paid for our own wedding and honeymoon, but the total was under $5000, not $50K.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I read a couple of posts, not the whole thread.

I agree that getting an education in the US is very expensive, and those loans can be a problem to start up a life once you are graduated. But it's nt any different in other places.

Here, getting a "regular" degree (bachelors and masters) costs you about $750 a year in tuition. You have to add all the expenses you need for your living. BUt you can also do like me, and keep on living at home while you study and commute.
Why is it so cheap? Because we pay about 50% income tax and 21% sales tax and many more other taxes. That way, with everything you do/ buy, you pay a little bit, and you don't have to pay for it all at once. Of course, if you don't go to university yourself, or don't have any children that do so, you paid "for nothing".

I graduated, no loans (thank you grandparents to help me pay that MBA-year), but I still live with my parents, I don't even have a used car, and I don't have to think about getting a house/ appartment. Because of all the high taxes, there is not enough money left to start my own life. I didn't end up with a huge loan, but I ended up with a smaller net income.

In the end, the result is the same.

Great point.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't think this is a personal attack at all. I can see how other people might see my vacation tickers and think that I am a *spender*. It makes sense. However, I am still wearing clothes from five years ago. I haven't had my nails done professionally since college ((3 years ago) etc. We don't go out to eat hardly ever. We don't buy movies, go out for drinks, etc. We are extremely frugal 350 days out of the year. It's all about choices. And BTW, we did a 4 day sea, 3 day land cruise at the Poly and added a day at the Pop last year. This time, we're just doing the 4 days cruise- it's less than half the cost. We are cruising again, but not the exact same way.

Still reading the rest of your post--it is rather long

It has nothing to observe you as a spender. It had to do with contradiction of your status.

One cannot complain about sharing a 10 yearold car and presenting that as the sacrfice they made due to student loans (in your case--your SO's loans) and then turn around and say they make extra "freebie" meony that they can splurge on a 7 day vacation at the most expensive time a year.

It makes for a contradiction.

I appreciate that you understood that I was not attacking you.

One cannot tell from tickers our spending habits--but we can certainly tell priorities and it seems that for you as a couple--the ability to travel lavishly (and yes a Disney cruise and a stay at the poly would be considered a bit on the lavish side) is the priority for you.

That is fine--but it does weaken your defense of the "we have to postpone marriage and children" b/c of our loans.

Back to read the rest of the post to see how you tie it all together--I just wanted to clarify that my observation had nothing to do with judging you as a spender.

 

[moonvine]

Not to be a jerk but maybe more people need to consider public colleges, trade school and community colleges as viable options to their road to success. Just because you got accepted in ABC University @ $20,000 a year doesn't mean you SHOULD go.

The problem with community colleges if you plan to go on to 4 year college is that often, while the credits transfer, they transfer as "general education" credits. This means you have to re-take the courses at the higher cost school (which would be pretty boring as well as a waste of money). I am in this situation now, with a boatload of computer courses I have taken at a community college. They transfer, but they transfer as general ed credits, *not* computer science credits. So I advise anyone who is planning to go to a 4 year college to plan this very, VERY carefully, lest they waste lots of time and money.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

So, we are postponing our wedding, etc. until we have enough saved up to pay for a decent wedding. That is also a choice. I could get married by a JOP this summer. (My mother would pass out, though) Weddings are very big in my family. My brothers have all paid a large chunk for theirs. The latest one was in 2002 and it cost close to 50,000. I feel a great deal of pressure from my family to save up until we can have an "acceptable" "classy" affair. Not a huge, expensive wedding, but one that will not be talked badly about by our relatives and friends, you know? After every wedding, we hear the praise and criticism of the foods, band, flowers, colors and I wouldn't want my whole family to remember my special day as "cheap" or "tacky" so we need to save up a little to make it a nice, special day. Will it be the way I would dream it and have everything perfect? No. But I'd prefer to save up for a few more years to have it remembered as a special day.

But this is just as bad as the state cutting whatever spending they did on Universities if not worse.

We are so concerned about not presenting the wrong impression versus the impact on our finances.

We could have won the lottery and my hubby would have refused to spend that much on a wedding. People quite enjoyed the $8.95 per plate chicken dinner they got at the Offficer's club located on the beach.

And I still felt every bit like a princess with the exception of my step-mother and the veil fiasco. But I guess that was kind of like the pea under the mattress..so I guess it still felt princess-y.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Have the wedding that you and your DF want and don't worry about what everybody else thinks. I would rather cuddle my DH a few years sooner, in our own home, and let them talk in their own home. To me $50K is a very expensive wedding. I guess it was just DH and I, but we could not wait to start our life together. I would have eloped it I could not have afforded our simple wedding. To wait another 8 years would have been .

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The problem with community colleges if you plan to go on to 4 year college is that often, while the credits transfer, they transfer as "general education" credits. This means you have to re-take the courses at the higher cost school (which would be pretty boring as well as a waste of money). I am in this situation now, with a boatload of computer courses I have taken at a community college. They transfer, but they transfer as general ed credits, *not* computer science credits. So I advise anyone who is planning to go to a 4 year college to plan this very, VERY carefully, lest they waste lots of time and money.

In Florida they have gone so far as to require that CC classes have the same registration number (whatever that code # is called!!) and credits must transfer.

Usually upper division coursework is not transferrable, but lower division certainly is.

They even have tracks--that when you start CC--you know you are transfering to ABC state University once you get your Associates...all a very smooth process.

Florida may have a questionable primary and secondary education--but I do appreciate their post secondary education and for most students--as long as you meet minimal criteria--you can even get your tuition paid for and less that you have to worry about cost wise.

I know not all states have this--but it makes me darn proud of Florida are trying to work with the students instead of against them.

 

[mickeyfan2]

The problem with community colleges if you plan to go on to 4 year college is that often, while the credits transfer, they transfer as "general education" credits. This means you have to re-take the courses at the higher cost school (which would be pretty boring as well as a waste of money). I am in this situation now, with a boatload of computer courses I have taken at a community college. They transfer, but they transfer as general ed credits, *not* computer science credits. So I advise anyone who is planning to go to a 4 year college to plan this very, VERY carefully, lest they waste lots of time and money.

This maybe true for you but was NOT true for me, so don't make it a generalization. I checked this out before going to my Community College. If I got my AS I would be a full standing Junior at any of the state school and most of the top private schools in my state. I went private, graduated at the top of my class in exactly 2 more years, and I was ahead of the kids in my school when I started my junior year. BTW I have a BSECE degree so I was in the technology field too. The private college I went to was highly selective. I meet people everyday who say I wanted to go there but I could not get in.

 

[disykat]

Still reading the rest of your post--it is rather long

It has nothing to observe you as a spender. It had to do with contradiction of your status.

One cannot complain about sharing a 10 yearold car and presenting that as the sacrfice they made due to student loans (in your case--your SO's loans) and then turn around and say they make extra "freebie" meony that they can splurge on a 7 day vacation at the most expensive time a year.

It makes for a contradiction.

I appreciate that you understood that I was not attacking you.

One cannot tell from tickers our spending habits--but we can certainly tell priorities and it seems that for you as a couple--the ability to travel lavishly (and yes a Disney cruise and a stay at the poly would be considered a bit on the lavish side) is the priority for you.

That is fine--but it does weaken your defense of the "we have to postpone marriage and children" b/c of our loans.

Back to read the rest of the post to see how you tie it all together--I just wanted to clarify that my observation had nothing to do with judging you as a spender.

Amen! College loans have nothing to do with your circumstances. It's all about priorities. You could be asking for birthday money to pay down your loans or save for your wedding and skipping presents to each other for the same reason.

You are fortunate to have the luxury of making other choices, but you do need to understand they are choices.

There is a reason this generation will not be better off than their parents and I don't think it really has anything to do with the economy.

 

[moonvine]

This maybe true for you but was NOT true for me, so don't make it a generalization. I checked this out before going to my Community College. If I got my AS I would be a full standing Junior at any of the state school and most of the top private schools in my state. I went private, graduated at the top of my class in exactly 2 more years, and I was ahead of the kids in my school when I started my junior year. BTW I have a BSECE degree so I was in the technology field too. The private college I went to was highly selective. I meet people everyday who say I wanted to go there but I could not get in.

Didn't mean to make a generalization, just wanted to make sure folks checked carefully before planning to go to community college and transfer to a state school later. "All credits transfer" doesn't necessarily mean what a community college would lead you to believe that it means. If it wasn't true for you, I think that is great, but all my credits will transfer - as general education credits, not computer science credits.

Fortunately it doesn't really matter to me all that much as I have a Master's degree in another field and my employer is paying for these courses - which, by the way, is another way of saving - getting a job with an employer who offers tuition reimbursement.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

Well, now you have me curious about your veil fiasco,

but back to the topic-

I agree with others that it is a lot to spend on a wedding and I don't plan on spending as much as they did, however, I do feel pressure to have a certain "level" of wedding based on all the other wedding I've been to in my family. I agree that financially, a lavish wedding is not the best decision and I am still struggling with where to do in terms of spending money on a wedding.

I have to ask this question, though, (again, not a personal attack) Would you have enjoyed 8.95 chicken if you knew your relatives would be complaining, talking behind your back, or making certain uncontented facial expressions the whole night, and most likely in future weeks to come? Could you have made the same wise financial decision if you had a family that would most definitely not enjoy that evening? (Not my immediate family, w/ the exception of my SIL's maybe, but my extended family) The fact that your family and friends were content and happy with your celebration probably had a lot to do with how much you enjoyed your special day. I would feel looked down upon instead of special and admired like a bride should feel. I think it is wonderful that other families are supportive of small weddings, but I know mine wouldn't be and it's a hard decision to basically postpone my wedding for them.

Disykat- I agree that this generation has elevated financial expectations- name brands, etc. but I do think that economy and government decision and changes to society have impacted that as well, as I stated in my post. Many more children live in single parent homes, which has a financial impact. Education budgets being cut do have a financial impact on students. All of the things I mentioned in my post have a huge financial impact. This whole situation is like a keg of gunpowder and the spending habits and societal expectations (keeping up w/ those Joneses again) is like the spark. It's a problem, but by no means is it the whole picture.

As far as the vacations thing, I do know that a few thousand on a yearly vacation slows my saving, but since it is my only means of spending money on myself all year, I believe it is the right decision for me. I could have not gone on any vacations last year, or this year or ever and BF and I could squirrel away money for the wedding, but what if I died tomorrow and we were together five years and never went on a vacation? I believe that the tiny bit these vacations set me back is worth it. I would never say to a family that was in deep credit card debt, or overmortgaged, or whatever to never vacation with their kids. I would tell them to do it frugally, but I think it's a worthwhile expense because it establishes memories. It's what life is all about to me. A special retreat time set aside where families, couples, loved ones can reconnect away from all the daily stresses and recharge so they can handle them together when they return.

That said, I wouldn't stay at the Poly again until I had more money. I am making more frugal, financially wise decisions about how I vacation rather than trying to have vacations like my parents took us on where we ate all table service, bought whatever we wanted, etc. I am learning to change this and spend only a certain amount, not spend up to the level my parents did when we went as children. I am completely debt free, which is why I am apprehensive about owning some of DBF's debt.

Again, this post is all about me, but my OP was NOT about me. I did not mention my personal situation or my BF's at all in the OP. I wanted opinions on the article. When people brought up state schools, I showed our two experiences because I wanted others to see just how different two state school experiences can be - NOT because I was complaining about my situation.

I was very lucky in my experiences and my BF was not. We both went to state schools. I was trying to show how a students family and socioeconomic status are extremely important factors in their future quality of life, even if they study hard and do just as well in school. There is someone like me who had the support and came out ok, and someone who didn't get the support, and still has to struggle.

As I said in my last post, the budget cuts and student loans affect others much more than me. I was really upset seeing that hard working students without parents who are willing and able to assist them can still be in debt for their education. It really surprised me to see that my bf was not in the minority. I want to reiterate that I am not complaining about my situation. My situation is far better than many as I have recently seen. I'll repeat again that when I said I could cry, it wasn't for *me* as I think many hae miscontrued, it was because I think the societal situation is wrong - it was for this whole mess that affects many people. I just think that this is an issue that needs governmental attention. There is government money for many unneccessary things and there should be more money to assist middle class or working class college students.

But this is just as bad as the state cutting whatever spending they did on Universities if not worse.

We are so concerned about not presenting the wrong impression versus the impact on our finances.

We could have won the lottery and my hubby would have refused to spend that much on a wedding. People quite enjoyed the $8.95 per plate chicken dinner they got at the Offficer's club located on the beach.

And I still felt every bit like a princess with the exception of my step-mother and the veil fiasco. But I guess that was kind of like the pea under the mattress..so I guess it still felt princess-y.

 

[MrsPete]

One cannot complain about sharing a 10 yearold car and presenting that as the sacrfice they made due to student loans (in your case--your SO's loans) and then turn around and say they make extra "freebie" meony that they can splurge on a 7 day vacation at the most expensive time a year . . .
That is fine--but it does weaken your defense of the "we have to postpone marriage and children" b/c of our loans.

I was thinking the same thing. When it comes to money, I'm a big-picture person. ALL the money is mine, and it should be used to its best advantage. I don't divide it up into my "regular job money" for necessities vs. my "extra job money" for fun. If I owe something (meaning, if I owe something big enough that it prevents me from doing what I really want to do -- i.e., getting married or having a child), there is no "extra" money in another place.

 

[MrsPete]

It is, however, very common to use the tuition reimbursement from their employers - I know a lot of Wells Fargo employees - they qualify for a $5,000 a year tuition reimbursement. UPS is $3000 a year. That goes a long way to helping pay for college. It may take eight years instead of four - and many of my classmates are working their back ends off between school and job.

This is one of the best ways to pay for your education: get an employer to do it! MANY employers will do this, especially for a master's degree -- it just takes you longer to get through school because you generally can't be a full-time student.

To me, I think one of the things that has happened is that it used to be that private schools were something for the rich or those that were basically going to get a free ride in terms of grants and scholarships. Somewhere, something changed. Qualifing for a loan seemed "nearly as good" from a financial aid standpoint to people as getting a grant or a scholarship. And people started to feel that a private college education should be acheivable for the middle class.

I just don't see the private schools as better; I don't see them as something reserved for the rich, brilliant, etc. In my state, the public schools -- with a couple exceptions in both directions -- are considerably stronger academically. Maybe that's not true everywhere, but for the most part here sacraficing so that your child can attend a private university instead of a public one would be a poor financial and academic choice.

 

[MrsPete]

This maybe true for you but was NOT true for me, so don't make it a generalization. I checked this out before going to my Community College. If I got my AS I would be a full standing Junior at any of the state school and most of the top private schools in my state.

Yep, this is one of the myths that keeps students out of the community colleges: Don't both to go. You'll just have to repeat everything at the "real university" anyway. I'm only really familiar with the two community colleges in my area, but I know that they offer a wide variety of programs:

Some of the programs are terminal degrees or certificates; that is, the student earns just that one degree, and that's it. Examples might include something in auto mechanics or heat/air conditioning. It might not even be a degree -- it might be a certificate. The student enters with the intention of completing that program only. This is what MOST students at the community college do.

However, the community colleges also offer a transfer program, in which the students take their first courses at the community college, then transfer to a 4-year school. They enter the community college already knowing that they intend to spend two years there, then go to ____ University afterward. If the students follow the prescribed coursework, they will not lose credits. It's set up that way.