Article on College Debt- so true it makes me cry

[moonvine]

Well, now you have me curious about your veil fiasco,

but back to the topic-

I agree with others that it is a lot to spend on a wedding and I don't plan on spending as much as they did, however, I do feel pressure to have a certain "level" of wedding based on all the other wedding I've been to in my family. I agree that financially, a lavish wedding is not the best decision and I am still struggling with where to do in terms of spending money on a wedding.

I have to ask this question, though, (again, not a personal attack) Would you have enjoyed 8.95 chicken if you knew your relatives would be complaining, talking behind your back, or making certain uncontented facial expressions the whole night, and most likely in future weeks to come? Could you have made the same wise financial decision if you had a family that would most definitely not enjoy that evening? (Not my immediate family, w/ the exception of my SIL's maybe, but my extended family) The fact that your family and friends were content and happy with your celebration probably had a lot to do with how much you enjoyed your special day. I would feel looked down upon instead of special and admired like a bride should feel. I think it is wonderful that other families are supportive of small weddings, but I know mine wouldn't be and it's a hard decision to basically postpone my wedding for them.

Personally, although I am not married - if I ever do get married, and there is anyone who cannot just come and enjoy the day with me and be happy for me (and I doubt I would serve a meal AT ALL, probably just snacks - they should be darn happy with chicken!), then I really do not want that person there, family or not. However, if they did come and choose to moan, whine and complain, then I would kindly invite them to get over it or leave, and I certainly wouldn't allow their bad behavior to ruin my day. But that's just me.

 

[cjnix29]

I am a lawyer. Yeah, now I know you all are feeling sorry for me. But please, read on. Surprising as it may seem to some, not all lawyers are rich. As a matter of fact quite a lot of us aren't. When I graduated from law school in 2000, I had friends that were going to start out making $130,000 just out of law school. But...I also had friends that took jobs making $30,000. I went to a private law school, and had no help other than the "financial aid they call student loans". When I graduated from law school I was $120,000 in debt between undergrad and law school. My monthly payments are $1100! Yes, that is right. $1100. Top that off that I had to consolidate when I got out because I couldn't afford not to. Unfortunately for interest rates, I was a year too late. You hear about the 3,4, 5% interest rates...I was locked in for 30 years at 8%. In the 6 years I have been paying them off, I have paid over $40,000 in interest to reduce my principle by 7,000.

Now, I admit, I chose this profession. I chose to go to a private law school. I sat through the student loan presentations before entering with the "be careful how much you borrow" lectures. But for some reason, it didn't phase me. I, mistakenly figured I would be making big bucks when I graduated, so what did it matter. That is where I went wrong. I think we need to further educate our college students on exactly what they can expect from the job market so they have a realistic approach to what their future will hold. I also think the federal government should remove the "one time only" consolidation rule.

I live in Ohio, which is one of the most expensive states to attend college. These double digit tuition increases are only going to make the future worse for our children.

 

[MrsPete]

. . . I do feel pressure to have a certain "level" of wedding based on all the other wedding I've been to in my family. I agree that financially, a lavish wedding is not the best decision and I am still struggling with where to do in terms of spending money on a wedding . . .

I have to ask this question, though, (again, not a personal attack) Would you have enjoyed 8.95 chicken if you knew your relatives would be complaining, talking behind your back, or making certain uncontented facial expressions the whole night, and most likely in future weeks to come?

This is scary. You're looking at spending 50K so that people won't talk behind your back? People who are going to criticize your wedding -- a very tacky idea, indeed -- are going to do it no matter how much you spend. They'll say that the music was in poor taste, that the flowers weren't nearly as nice as your cousin's flowers, your dress wasn't becoming; people who are going to behave this way will do so regardless of how nice things are and regardless of how much you spend.

I understand the desire to have a nice wedding. We didn't over-spend on our wedding, but we had a nice one. If we'd gone to the Justice of the Peace, I genuinely would feel like I'd missed something. However, I had my wedding FOR ME AND MY HUSBAND, not for other people.

In fact, I did have one set of relatives who told my mother that my wedding was boring (because we didn't have dancing). They were from up North, where more extravagant weddings are common. I didn't care -- and my sister didn't invite them to her wedding! Their loss.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I was thinking the same thing. When it comes to money, I'm a big-picture person. ALL the money is mine, and it should be used to its best advantage. I don't divide it up into my "regular job money" for necessities vs. my "extra job money" for fun. If I owe something (meaning, if I owe something big enough that it prevents me from doing what I really want to do -- i.e., getting married or having a child), there is no "extra" money in another place.

I see your point- it's all my money and it should all be put to good use, but I think allocating money from my extra jobs helps me stay on budget and stops me from spending. My money from my extra jobs is my "allowance" which is where I get things I want. My money from my salary is what I pay bills and put into my big savings account. I think it limits my spending so I don't tap into my regular salary for a purse or a dinner out or a vacation- and it keeps me sane- so I don't get overwhelmed.

Also, technically I don't owe anyone a cent. My boyfriend will not let me give him money for his loans. I've tried a few times. He says it's his expense not mine. So, while I could put my money into savings, I can't use it to pay down his loans as he won't accept money from me for his loans. He wants to be in a better place financially before we get married, so it's really him postponing it all, not me.

But, as I said before, so what if I'm over 30 when I get married- it could be worse. I'm with the man I love no matter what. It would be nice to be married already, but he won't feel comfortable with that until he has his loans down to a more manageable number and we can afford the wedding and down payment on a house, as he says he wouldn't feel right getting married to me until he can take care of me.

Personally, my situation is because of my family's expectations and my boyfriend's situation. I'm sure I could use a ton of advice on how to handle it all and I don't mind people sharing their opinions with me. I always have a lot to learn. Getting rid of my BF's loans is part of the problem, but there are other things that contribute to my situation- as most of you have noted, it has a lot to do with my family and what they expect. I could use a lot of advice on dealing with that too, but that's probably a whole other thread.
I'm pretty good at accepting the good and forgetting the rest. I don't feel attacked at all, just wanted to clarify a few things. Keep the observations coming. I learn from it all (well, most posts, I do.)


As for the wedding, if I did what I really wanted to do, I would take 10,000 out of my savings and have my wedding in a year. I would do an intimate wedding in WDW at Sunset Pointe at the Poly around October, carrying pink and white orchids and lilies and take my immediate family and maybe my two closest friends and then take everyone out to eat at Kona Cafe (my favorite!) I would do another reception at home with just homebaked goodies at a garden party at my new home because all the money I'd save in a year between now and then could help with a down payment on a house. That's what I'd really want. Not the 50,000 affair.

To be honest, I feel silly and embarrassed talking about my situation because I know mine isn't so bad. I never had intentions of being so forward with all my personal details. I just wanted to answer some questions about me that others asked.

My OP wasn't about me- I posted because the situation in general- increasing costs, budget cuts, etc. bothered me and I wanted to see what everyone else thought of the current loan situation. There's some good advice on this thread and I appreciate all the different points of view. I'm sure you can tell I'll take all the help I can get.

 

[MrsPete]

There is a reason this generation will not be better off than their parents and I don't think it really has anything to do with the economy.

Actually, they said the same thing about my generation (I graduated from college in the late 80s): We'd be the first generation to do worse financially than our parents. When I heard that, having grown up in poverty, well . . . it scared me to death to think that I'd be worse off.

As I look at my same-age cohorts (who are just turning 40), I think this is only partially true. Some of us have vastly surpassed our parents (for this point in our lives, that is), while others are burdened with debt that will probably prevent them from ever attaining true financial comfort. And I think it all goes back to two things: frugal living and having had a good financial start in life.

 

[dvcgirl]

I was thinking the same thing. When it comes to money, I'm a big-picture person. ALL the money is mine, and it should be used to its best advantage. I don't divide it up into my "regular job money" for necessities vs. my "extra job money" for fun. If I owe something (meaning, if I owe something big enough that it prevents me from doing what I really want to do -- i.e., getting married or having a child), there is no "extra" money in another place.

I think this way as well. Then again, there isn't much that Mrs. Pete ever says that I don't agree with.. All of the money is ours....wherever it comes from. Often I'll read on this board that someone is in CC debt, but the upcoming 10 day trip to WDW is paid for with my Pampered Chef money...babysitting the next door neighbor kid money.....my part-time weekend job money. It's all income, and income going to luxurious vacations when there's serious debt to pay off (or very little in retirement accounts) is probably not very well spent.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

This is scary. You're looking at spending 50K so that people won't talk behind your back? People who are going to criticize your wedding -- a very tacky idea, indeed -- are going to do it no matter how much you spend. They'll say that the music was in poor taste, that the flowers weren't nearly as nice as your cousin's flowers, your dress wasn't becoming; people who are going to behave this way will do so regardless of how nice things are and regardless of how much you spend.

I understand the desire to have a nice wedding. We didn't over-spend on our wedding, but we had a nice one. If we'd gone to the Justice of the Peace, I genuinely would feel like I'd missed something. However, I had my wedding FOR ME AND MY HUSBAND, not for other people.

In fact, I did have one set of relatives who told my mother that my wedding was boring (because we didn't have dancing). They were from up North, where more extravagant weddings are common. I didn't care -- and my sister didn't invite them to her wedding! Their loss.

You're right. I can recognize that logically, but emotionally it's hard for me to not care about how others, especially my family, will think of me.

We are from up North (New Jersey) and in our area, 50,000 is about average for a wedding. Heck, two girls this year at the high school at which I teach had their Quinceanereas (sp?) (15th bday parties for girls) that cost that much- themed dancing, bridal gowns (one bought a white Vera Wang bridal gown and dyed it blue) and one even arrived in a horse drawn carriage. I remember a woman talking at work about how she was upset that a wedding she went to had waitresses serve meals only and that she had to walk to the bar to get a drink instead of having it served to her at the table. It's not just my family- it's this whole area, I think.

 

[MrsPete]

I see your point- it's all my money and it should all be put to good use, but I think allocating money from my extra jobs helps me stay on budget and stops me from spending. My money from my extra jobs is my "allowance" which is where I get things I want. My money from my salary is what I pay bills and put into my big savings account. I think it limits my spending so I don't tap into my regular salary for a purse or a dinner out or a vacation

So you're using the "money from this source and that source" as a budget. That can be a good tool; however, if you're able to take Disney cruises and stay at the Polynesian, you've given yourself a very high allowance. Given that a wedding, a house, and debt is in your future, is this allowance in balance with your income and your future needs? Only you know the answer to that question.

- and it keeps me sane- so I don't get overwhelmed.

Now this is scary again. If spending money keeps you from being "overwhelmed", it sounds like spending is an emotional issue.

 

[mking624]

How about an easy answer to all this that doesn't impose on anyone's decisions in life or tries to get into the psychology of it all...be it student loans or weddings or anything else....
"To each his own."

I don't measure other people by my standards and expectations, it's not fair to them because everything they do is not about me. Even if we wouldn't do it for ourselves (take out a loan or not take out a loan), other people did or didn't...so let's just respect them and their choices without debating who is and isn't right and for what reasons.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

So you're using the "money from this source and that source" as a budget. That can be a good tool; however, if you're able to take Disney cruises and stay at the Polynesian, you've given yourself a very high allowance. Given that a wedding, a house, and debt is in your future, is this allowance in balance with your income and your future needs? Only you know the answer to that question.

Now this is scary again. If spending money keeps you from being "overwhelmed", it sounds like spending is an emotional issue.

Yes, my Poly stay was a little expensive, but we did save our gift/extra money for over 2 years to do it. Now, I've learned to make more frugal choices until we're married and have a home.

I have about 12,000 in savings right now, not counting what's in my vacation ING (or my 403B retirement account) I'm not touching that unless it's for a house or a wedding. I was considering moving it to a CD or something to catch more interest. So, I am saving more for wedding, etc. than my vacation costs.

My relationship with this debt is weird, since I am not allowed to pay it. As I said, BF won't accept any money for it. I'm not really sure what to do with it. Should I be trying to convince him to let me help pay it? He doesn't seem amenable to that discussion, though, from past experience.

Yes, spending (and eating and saving and living and everything) is an emotional issue for me. I am way too emotional. Won't argue there.

 

[dvcgirl]

You're right. I can recognize that logically, but emotionally it's hard for me to not care about how others, especially my family, will think of me.

We are from up North (New Jersey) and in our area, 50,000 is about average for a wedding. Heck, two girls this year at the high school at which I teach had their Quinceanereas (sp?) (15th bday parties for girls) that cost that much- themed dancing, bridal gowns (one bought a white Vera Wang bridal gown and dyed it blue) and one even arrived in a horse drawn carriage. I remember a woman talking at work about how she was upset that a wedding she went to had waitresses serve meals only and that she had to walk to the bar to get a drink instead of having it served to her at the table. It's not just my family- it's this whole area, I think.

I'm from NJ, and so I know that what you speak of here is true. I've seen it first hand, especially the insane parties for young children in the neighborhood that I used to live in (Monmouth County). However, that kind of insanity is not something that you need to let into your own life. We sure didn't, although ultimately we did move from that neighborhood because we felt that there had to be more to life than discussing the terrible entertainment at Joey's 5th BD party or overhearing the whispers that so and so got a built-in pool...but can you believe that it's a *vinyl-lined pool* and not concrete....there goes the neighborhood. Blech...

 

[jodifla]

To the OP: You are in a very expensive area, for housing and the general cost of weddings. It's hard for folks who live in other parts of the country to comprehend. Yes, you could spend 5K on your wedding, but for a once in a lifetime event, you should have the wedding you want, one that you'll be happy with down the road. (DH and I paid for our wedding in '88, and it was about $5,000. But folks' expectations in Florida are different, so we didn't have that to battle against. We had drinking and dancing and croquet; it was quite a party!)

But if you've gotten the educations you want for the jobs you want to do in life, then the college debt shouldn't be a problem. You maybe should think about a different part of the country, one where your money would go further.

None of my friends had a house before 30. Most didn't have kids until about 35. I didn't have my DS until 40, when we'd been married about 13 years. You don't have to have everything accomplished in the next five years. We spent the early part of our marriage traveling, getting established in our careers, and creating a solid financial future.

 

[crisi]

I have to ask this question, though, (again, not a personal attack) Would you have enjoyed 8.95 chicken if you knew your relatives would be complaining, talking behind your back, or making certain uncontented facial expressions the whole night, and most likely in future weeks to come? Could you have made the same wise financial decision if you had a family that would most definitely not enjoy that evening? (Not my immediate family, w/ the exception of my SIL's maybe, but my extended family) The fact that your family and friends were content and happy with your celebration probably had a lot to do with how much you enjoyed your special day. I would feel looked down upon instead of special and admired like a bride should feel. I think it is wonderful that other families are supportive of small weddings, but I know mine wouldn't be and it's a hard decision to basically postpone my wedding for them.

When I got married, I really wanted something cheap and non extravangant with a small guest list. My dad got ahold of it and his ego got tied up in it. One country club wedding later I was married. And people griped. We didn't have the right music for the wedding. I'd picked the wrong bridesmaids dresses. The flowers were tacky. We had a buffet so people could choose their entrees, and people complained they weren't waited on. The bar wouldn't make $7 blender drinks for them. We had (I don't know why this was an issue) VEGETARIAN lasagna (we had vegetarians and they needed an entree!). We only had smoking in the lounge. Its been 15 years and my grandmother still hasn't forgotten I didn't let her smoke at the table.

Eighteen months later I got divorced. Not because the wedding wasn't happy (I had a blast despite the old biddies), but because the marriage wasn't.

So I got married again about five years later. This time Daddy wasn't picking up the tab. So we spent less than $3,000, I wore a $50 dress. We had the reception in a park building. We fed everyone sub sandwiches, beer, box wine, pop and had a DJ. Again, had a blast. The same people complained - at least I knew that if they were going to complain about not getting a waitress to give them Prime Rib, they were going to complain over the sub sandwiches. Some of them didn't bother to come this time (thank God!)

I think that if your extended family values you having a big wedding over your financial security, you should reconsider inviting them. Some people you can't make happy. I don't need family that tells me how to spend my money. At the end of the day, trust me on this, it doesn't matter how much you spent, how much you were admired, or how special you felt - all that matters is "are you married to someone you share a committment with." All the Vera Wang dress and Prime Rib in the world doesn't make up for a guy who is boppin the bridesmaids. And if its meant to be, you'll be just as married if the only money you spend is on the license.

 

[MyGoofy26]

This is one of the best ways to pay for your education: get an employer to do it! MANY employers will do this, especially for a master's degree -- it just takes you longer to get through school because you generally can't be a full-time student.

I had an interview today (sounds very promising - I think the job may be mine *crossing fingers*) and they handed me a 2 page info packet about the company and some of the benefits, just an overview, and one was up to $3000 a year in tuition reimbursement. I told myself if I could find either a job that paid well enough for me to save the money to pay cash or a company with tuition programs, I'd go for my master's. So if I do get this job, you can bet in a year I'll be looking at master's programs. So what if it takes me two or three times longer than a "normal" student. . if it's on someone else's dime, I'll stretch it out!

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

All the Vera Wang dress and Prime Rib in the world doesn't make up for a guy who is boppin the bridesmaids.

Funny! Now, that's a tag.

As I said before, if I did what I wanted, I'd invite just those closest to me and do an intimate wedding at WDW that wouldn't cost much more than what I already have in savings. That way I wouldn't have to feel chopped down until after the honeymoon. I doubt I'd have the chutzpah to do that, though.

 

[mking624]

This is one of the best ways to pay for your education: get an employer to do it! MANY employers will do this, especially for a master's degree -- it just takes you longer to get through school because you generally can't be a full-time student.

While this is a good idea, keep in mind that many employers have a catch. Some employers will only reimburse you if you're studying a particular field (and this isn't exactly helpful if it's simply a job to pay the bills while you're in school). Some employers will only reimburse you if you're getting a specific degree (Associates, Bachelors, Masters). Some employers expect you to pay your tuition all upfront and the will reimburse you at the end of the semester (this is how my DH's former job worked). ALWAYS read the fine print when seeing that jobs have tuition assistance.

 

[westjones]

While this is a good idea, keep in mind that many employers have a catch. Some employers will only reimburse you if you're studying a particular field (and this isn't exactly helpful if it's simply a job to pay the bills while you're in school). Some employers will only reimburse you if you're getting a specific degree (Associates, Bachelors, Masters). Some employers expect you to pay your tuition all upfront and the will reimburse you at the end of the semester (this is how my DH's former job worked). ALWAYS read the fine print when seeing that jobs have tuition assistance.

This is how I got my MBA. My employer would only pay for business degrees (which was fine with me, that was what I wanted to study). I also had to pay for the semester and when I completed the courses they reimbursed me (again this was fine, and I never had a problem getting my money back).

This was 13 years ago that I did this and I went through an Executive MBA program (they met on weekends and I completed the work in 27 months going year around--but the program was set up for you to be with the same group taking the same courses at the same time every week--we just had to show up and do the work, they included the books, parking fees, and even snacks!). In the end, the program costed a little over $20,000, but I am sure it would be much more in today's dollars.

This was the only way I would have ever been able to get a masters degree, and it worked out great for me.

DJ

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Well, now you have me curious about your veil fiasco,
.

Oh good God...here's the reader's digest version. YOu will need about .

Step-mommy who I despise has stated without asking that she'd make my wedding dress since I was 12. Never made it an issue. when the time came I said it was always my dream to shop with my mom and sorry, but that is something I'd prefer to do. Cue hissy fit and then make the veil compromise.

Makes a BEAUTIFUL veil. Okay her friend made it as he was better at that sort of thing--but she picked out the fabric headpiece blah blah blah. And here in is the problem. She arrives with beautiful veil and I comment how big the headpiece looks. She says in her "I know everything and have a PhD tone of voice"--it is ONE size fits ALL.

Okay--it was big with my hair down.

Wedding day--long story short (chorus: TOO LATE)--with my hair up it was too big I was devestated and pi$$ed--not bridezilla pi$$ed but sick of all her know it all crap and she had a chance to fix the problem was more interested in being correct than how I looked...I started crying hysterically. I made the comment i looked like a dolphin jumping through a hoop (it was HUGE--a gape about.......... ......... that big space between the dots on BOTH sides of my head. The hairstylest had the idea of cutting it and using Floral wire to adjust the size. Crisis averted--but it was a jerry rig...veil did flip off my head during the reception.

Moral of the story--despite the PhD my stepmother is an idiot who didn't know what she was talking about and my head is smaller than everyone else's.

And that was the SHORT version of the story.

Okay back to the topic at hand.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I have to ask this question, though, (again, not a personal attack) Would you have enjoyed 8.95 chicken if you knew your relatives would be complaining, talking behind your back, or making certain uncontented facial expressions the whole night, and most likely in future weeks to come?

If I was to pay for it--YES. We actually got many compliments and no one knew how cheap it was and were immediate family was a bit shocked we chose a sit down meal (we even had wine service ) was cheaper than buffet.

If mommy and daddy are worried about the relatives they could have paid for my wedding.

I do have some materialistic relatives but they know I don't have the income they do and while i would have appreciated to have the reception my cousin did or even my sorority sister who had a lavish wedding in South Florida with live band..we made our wedding what WE wanted and what WE could afford.

It is families and friends who would have those impressions that create lots of problems for our society today. It isn't the economy--it is how we present ourselves to others and we place too much value in how they view us in a material way.

I'm sorry your family is like that. But no--I wouldn't bust my butt and save for many years so that I have the celebration they feel entitled to.

A wedding is one afternoon or wedding...my marriage is more important.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

How about an easy answer to all this that doesn't impose on anyone's decisions in life or tries to get into the psychology of it all...be it student loans or weddings or anything else....
"To each his own."

I don't measure other people by my standards and expectations, it's not fair to them because everything they do is not about me. Even if we wouldn't do it for ourselves (take out a loan or not take out a loan), other people did or didn't...so let's just respect them and their choices without debating who is and isn't right and for what reasons.

That would be okay except we now have some whiners (the article) who say that they had no choice blah blah blah. They made their bed--now they have the consquences.

TWO of the three moved to a NEW area that was high cost of living.

The third remained in an area that was high cost of living.

My hubby is 10 years into his career, makes good money and it would be a strain to relocate to the DC area.

Hard to respect someone who complains as though they are a victim of their circumstance.