Are you sending your kids to school next month?

[Lilsia]

Thats why I think we need to triage students who NEED to be back. And yes these students are likely aware they are disadvantaged as right now they are lining up daily for free lunch or trying to find a wifi school bus that comes to their area. They are more aware than we give them credit for and the trauma of figuring out they are disadvantaged is nothing compared to what is happening or might happen without them in a classroom.

We need to keep teachers safe and that means limiting students in their classrooms to only those that need to be there.

So, I understand that certain students will do better in person. But what you are saying is that their need to learn outweighs theirs, their families, and their teachers safety. If you can make it so everyone does what they are supposed to do, wear a mask, don't socialize, wash your hands, keep your distance, have good air circulations, etc, then yours is a good plan. Because right now, it is playing Russian roulette with in person learning. And that is what these districts have to deal with, the decision on what is more important, learning or health. I don't envy those who have to make that decision because there will always be opposing priorities. For me, I rather keep my family safe and healthy. They can make up lost school time, dead is dead.

 

[dreamer17555]

I am saying for most students remote learning should happen to keep them out of the classroom but for those with unstable home lives, who struggle with food insecurities, who often don't have internet access, and who honestly might be in physical danger without a teacher setting eyes on them- those students? They NEED to be back.


It is possible to be pro teacher safety and understand that for a small population the students are safer in a classroom than at home.

 

[1GoldenSun]

My kids have been going to school in-person and doing very well and I actually feel guilty about it. Things have gone remarkably smoothly, but I realize that my kids' ability to have a "normal" school year comes at the expense of others. It's sort of like heard immunity; my kids are safer because of the actions of others. It's easier to keep students socially distanced and safe when only half the students' families chose to have their children attend in-person.

Back in August when we had to make the choice of in-person or virtual, I leaned heavily toward virtual. We have all the resources a child could possibly need to succeed at home--we have a family PC, my daughter has her own PC, and they also both have laptops. They have plenty of space for quiet and privacy, I am working from home and can supervise their routine, we have dependable internet service, and I am well able to assist when needed in most classes. Also, neither of my children have any special needs, both are emotionally stable and neither suffers from depression, and both have a strong, safe social network. I know there are lot of children who need the structure and stability of in-person school more than my own children. But my husband strongly believed that our kids needed to be in school. I pick my battles, and I deferred to him on this.

I recognize that the only reason our schools have seen so few Covid cases and things have been able to operate smoothly is because others chose to keep their kids home. It does concern me somewhat that a lot of my kids' friends who were doing virtual schooling up to now are planning on going back to school in person in January. Their parents have seen how well things have gone, and also they probably have gotten tired of the virtual school struggle, I would imagine. I'm a little worried that the very reason in-person schools have been successful--a greatly reduced student body-- is about to change dramatically and kids will start cramming into the school buildings once again in the middle of cold and flu season.

 

[Lumpy1106]

So, I understand that certain students will do better in person. But what you are saying is that their need to learn outweighs theirs, their families, and their teachers safety. If you can make it so everyone does what they are supposed to do, wear a mask, don't socialize, wash your hands, keep your distance, have good air circulations, etc, then yours is a good plan. Because right now, it is playing Russian roulette with in person learning. And that is what these districts have to deal with, the decision on what is more important, learning or health. I don't envy those who have to make that decision because there will always be opposing priorities. For me, I rather keep my family safe and healthy. They can make up lost school time, dead is dead.

You are offering a false choice; education or death. The data doesn't support this. Yes, cases are being reported in schools, but those cases are originating OUTSIDE the schools. Once the case is identified the students and teachers who POTENTIALLY were exposed are sent home and advised to get tested. This is the way it is supposed to work. There are cases where the schools are re-closed due to COMMUNITY spread, but again, you are just as safe in the school than you are outside of it. Safer in fact, because you can do contact tracing and isolate groups. You can't do that after a trip to the grocery store or the hardware store.

My DD7 is going back (private school, waiver) in 1/21 and we are ecstatic! It was a very easy decision to make. We only wish our public HS would follow suit.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Everyone should watch this video about how Korea has handled COVID - it is a bit long but an excellent job of reporting. Spoiler Alert: Schools are open, as are businesses.

 

[Orion Nebula]

Everyone should watch this video about how Korea has handled COVID - it is a bit long but an excellent job of reporting. Spoiler Alert: Schools are open, as are businesses.

Yep... and now they are warning about a complete lock down as Covid cases are sky rocketing. Tuesday their health ministry reported the highest daily count of new infections since the start of the pandemic. And the Mayor of Seoul warned the capital was facing a critical shortage of hospital space, with 77 of the city's 78 ICU beds now occupied by coronavirus patients. Right now they are at a level 2.5 and started consulting with experts to see if they need to move to level 3... which includes a complete shut down of their schools.

 

[lanejudy]

If you can make it so everyone does what they are supposed to do, wear a mask, don't socialize, wash your hands, keep your distance, have good air circulations, etc, then yours is a good plan.

This is totally possible in the schools. My state has seen very little COVID transmission within the schools -- literally just a couple of cases.

Speaking specifically to my district: we have a very high free/reduced lunch population, our school buildings are older (one HS building is from the ~1890s and the other is 1930's era), 80% of students chose hybrid learning this fall, and the 20% who are fully-remote are doing so with a completely different set of teachers. While we started in hybrid, grades pre-K thru 6th are now back in-person 4 days per week. Grades 7-12 are still hybrid with most students in-person 2 days/remote 3 days, though some students have been allowed back 4 days -- some are on IEPs/504s, others may have home issues or technology issues. We've had a total of 2 cases in the high school, with just 9 total in the district. Exactly as PP says, the cases are largely originating and spreading outside the schools. The rules for re-opening were straight-forward and continue to be followed by students, teachers and staff. It works.

 

[Disneefun]

Where I live, the schools are going back to remote, but not necessarily because of transmission in the schools or among students (there is some of that, but not too much. most transmission is coming from elsewhere.) The problem that too many teachers are either getting covid, or having to quarantine because of close contact, so there's literally no one to teach in the schools. Subs are in short supply due to demand and the fact that many have quit. The gatherings over Thanksgiving exposed too many teachers in one way or another and now it's a mess. The fact that it will get worse because people will insist on gathering at Christmas/New Year means the schools have no choice. If you can't find people to teach in person, you can't have in person school.

 

[mom2rtk]

Yep... and now they are warning about a complete lock down as Covid cases are sky rocketing. Tuesday their health ministry reported the highest daily count of new infections since the start of the pandemic. And the Mayor of Seoul warned the capital was facing a critical shortage of hospital space, with 77 of the city's 78 ICU beds now occupied by coronavirus patients. Right now they are at a level 2.5 and started consulting with experts to see if they need to move to level 3... which includes a complete shut down of their schools.

Is that because the schools are open?

 

[Orion Nebula]

Where I live, the schools are going back to remote, but not necessarily because of transmission in the schools or among students (there is some of that, but not too much. most transmission is coming from elsewhere.) The problem that too many teachers are either getting covid, or having to quarantine because of close contact, so there's literally no one to teach in the schools. Subs are in short supply due to demand and the fact that many have quit. The gatherings over Thanksgiving exposed too many teachers in one way or another and now it's a mess. The fact that it will get worse because people will insist on gathering at Christmas/New Year means the schools have no choice. If you can't find people to teach in person, you can't have in person school.

Same thing happened with my district. We ran out of teachers and had to fully shut down our high schools and middle schools in order to staff the elementary schools.

 

[mom2rtk]

Exactly. Listen, I went to college in the dark ages of the late 90s. I know virtual learning and "online college" has been a thing for awhile now, but I still fully believe that an online college is not even remotely equal to attending in person. It's just not. When you drop big $$$ to attend a university, you are paying for the learning EXPERIENCE and the expertise of the professors doing the lectures and running the discussion groups, labs, etc. I attended several HOURS a week of in person lectures, labs, and discussion groups. There is simply no way to do that online to the same degree. It's a watered down version, which is why online colleges are cheaper and the degrees don't hold as much weight in the real world.

This is the crux of the outrage at the fact that universities like Harvard went fully online but then didn't lower their tuition. And I totally understand that frustration, because even though this pandemic isn't anyone's fault, and we have all had to adjust how we do things, it is simply not the same experience, and should not cost an equal amount.

I worry that kids in their first semester of virtual college right now have NO idea what is actually coming when in person classes resume.

The truth is NOBODY knows if all this virtual instruction will cause issues down the road. Kids are getting through, but most are reporting that they aren't as engaged and don't feel they're learning as much. How that will pan out for students taking fundamental building block classes remains to be seen.

But that's life isn't it? It gets harder and harder. Is you daughter failing all of her classes or does she just have to work harder? And no, you can't learn everything online. Things like science lab needs to be done in person. But having a mix of virtual and hands on is much more doable and puts the kids less at risk. The complaints about how people's kids' lives are going to ruined and they won't get into college, yada yada is nonsense.

You're incredibly dismissive. This isn't even close to being that black and white.

My daughter had 3/4 of a year of traditional in person college before things closed down in the spring so she has a basis of comparison. She's getting great grades, but will be the first to tell you she's not learning nearly as much. And that's what she's there for. Grades are great and all, but she's there to learn the material.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Yep... and now they are warning about a complete lock down as Covid cases are sky rocketing. Tuesday their health ministry reported the highest daily count of new infections since the start of the pandemic. And the Mayor of Seoul warned the capital was facing a critical shortage of hospital space, with 77 of the city's 78 ICU beds now occupied by coronavirus patients. Right now they are at a level 2.5 and started consulting with experts to see if they need to move to level 3... which includes a complete shut down of their schools.

In other words...
The very actions CA has taken from the start. Difference is, their kids have been in school since last spring, and they will re-open as soon as the numbers improve. I'll take that over what we've been through here in CA, thanks.

 

[mom2rtk]

In other words...
The very actions CA has taken from the start. Difference is, their kids have been in school since last spring, and they will re-open as soon as the numbers improve. I'll take that over what we've been through here in CA, thanks.

All while the Governor's kids are in full time in person school.

 

[Lumpy1106]

OUCH! This is a tough read, but if you are going to shut down schools over the possibility that a teacher could get sick, you HAVE to look at the other side too. This is far more pervasive than you would ever believe.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article...ties-15808799.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

 

[mom2rtk]

OUCH! This is a tough read, but if you are going to shut down schools over the possibility that a teacher could get sick, you HAVE to look at the other side too. This is far more pervasive than you would ever believe.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article...ties-15808799.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

That's heartbreaking.

It's all a very complicated balance. Of course you can't throw caution to the wind in a pandemic, but mental health, education and economic issues must have a seat at the table.

 

[DLgal]

This I would agree is a failure on the school district. My middle and high schooler has class every day with each of their teachers/subjects. It is like if they were in school. The only difference is they are in a meeting room. They use Black Board. This is something that was pushed by parents.

Well, this is the hybrid model that our district is using so they can provide some in person instruction. There are 6 periods. Two cohorts of students who alternate days in person. So, Monday is "office hours day" where all students stay home. Tuesday is odd periods, cohort A. Cohort B does their independent study work that day. Then, on Wednesday they switch. Thursday is even periods, cohort A. Friday is cohort B in person, the other cohort does independent study. So, each class has 2 weekly meetings, but the second meeting on the independent day is just a short one to take attendance and then the home students log off and do independent work. There is no opportunity to ask questions on the at home day outside of the Monday office hours.

The only other option given to us was 100% distance learning via some virtual academy base in Florida, with teachers and a curriculum different than the one offered by our district.

Neither option is great, but my kid needs some in person opportunities.

 

[MrsPete]

States have not suspended testing because they know the kids will do poorly. IF they have suspended testing it's mainly due to saving money.

I don't think the general public realizes just how much of their tax dollars we waste on standardized testing -- if they did, we'd have a public outcry.

This is my daughter. She has anxiety. The beginning of the school year is tough with so many unknowns to her.

Yet the people decrying online learning won't seem to understand that this group is very real.

Also, you're wise to note that your child has "a pattern". Both of my kids did; for example, one of them started strong but really petered out in the last month of school. So, knowing that, I knew where I needed to put in more effort /where I needed to pay most attention.

What matters is if the (nearly adult) children are able to actually overcome this temporary situation.

Yes, by and large, we as a society have created a school climate in which we only expect students to perform when circumstances are optimal.

I think there is something in teaching children to be resilient.

Agree.

That's not how it works, though. You cannot just zoom or text the teacher anytime for an answer to a question. They are not usually available.

Eh, let's think this through:

- If we were back in the classroom, kids would hear the teacher explain a concept, and then they'd go away /the teacher would largely be unavailable until the next school day.
- With online learning kids are online hearing the teacher explain a concept, but they have the teachers' videos to listen to a second time, even if the teacher is largely unavailable until the next school day.

So, yeah, it's true that kids can only ask questions of the teacher during class ... but it's not exactly something new. And with both types of learning, kids have numerous teacher-provided resources available in between classes: perhaps textbooks, internet, teacher-made notes, etc. Teacher lectures have never been sole resources. We want our students to be able to learn from a variety of resources.

Yes, cases are being reported in schools, but those cases are originating OUTSIDE the schools.

But when those kids catch COVID outside school and bring it to school, it can be passed around. Two things that aren't necessarily evident at first glance:

This is very concerning in places like my county: we are just outside a big city, and we are largely a "bedroom community". The school system is the biggest employer in my county, and in one household out of three someone goes to a school building on a daily basis (well, I mean, they did before COVID). All this adds up to one big scary fact: the schools hold the potential to be a super-spreader location.

In my county, schools are not reporting COVID cases honestly -- yeah, I work for the school system, but they're doing wrong-wrong-wrong in this arena. We ONLY admit a kid has COVID if he or she has been tested through the county health health department. So if a kid is tested positive at CVS or Walgreens or in another county's health department, the school system doesn't recognize he or she has COVID. The theory: we don't want kids to be able to skip school by saying they had a positive test here or there. I teach almost 100 high school students this semester. Since I met them in August, six of my students have told me they've had a positive COVID test (and I have no reason to believe they're lying); the school system only recognizes one of them as actually having had COVID.

 

[mom2rtk]

Yet the people decrying online learning won't seem to understand that this group is very real.

Nobody is denying that some will fare better in an online setting. But online learning has always been available. If someone wants to pull their child out and have them enroll in an online homeschool system, that has always been their choice.

It's no better to force a better in person learner online than it is to push a better online learner to do it in person.

 

[lifesavacation]

OUCH! This is a tough read, but if you are going to shut down schools over the possibility that a teacher could get sick, you HAVE to look at the other side too. This is far more pervasive than you would ever believe.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article...ties-15808799.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

My daughter knew London through volleyball. My eyes tear up every time I think of her parents. Heartbreaking.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Nobody is denying that some will fare better in an online setting. But online learning has always been available. If someone wants to pull their child out and have them enroll in an online homeschool system, that has always been their choice.

It's no better to force a better in person learner online than it is to push a better online learner to do it in person.

I'm pretty sure that was covered in this thread earlier on too, and other threads. Many of us discussed in the past online schools, Connections Academy, K12, etc. There's no denying whatsoever. This thread is 112 pages long. There's def. a few other threads that have gone dormant talking about schooling. I think this was just forgotten because it wasn't being actively discussed on every post.

I don't feel like I need to on every post discussed that online school is available or that some people do better. My own sister-in-law did this because socially she was having problems. But people do that because they recognize their student has strengths and weaknesses that might be better served that way. Same as homeschooling.

I think it's great that some students have found online school to really work for them. I wouldn't presume that if it's not working for them they much be lazy, not motivated, refused to seek out help or any other adjective used. I also think we realize there's only so much to be done because this virus is still around sooo you know kinda a crap shoot here.

I guess when I learned about the idea of multiple intelligences it stuck. We all don't learn the same way. Finding out what works best for us is really important to our own personal success and right now there's a lot of people, students and adults alike, that were shifted into environments that don't match that. As much of an independent, personal responsibility person that I am, I am a bit surprised at the dog eat dog viewpoint of schooling that has really come about (and speaking outside of the DIS just as much on the DIS).