Are you sending your kids to school next month?

[Lilsia]

I'm aware virtual college has around for a while. My daughter has been enrolled for the last semester and a half. And she'll tell you for her courses, it's just not the same. It's harder to understand the instructors in some of her STEM classes, it's harder when you can't ask questions on the spot. Not everything lends itself well to virtual training. And that's the point. So many different degree programs, so many different learning styles.

But that's life isn't it? It gets harder and harder. Is you daughter failing all of her classes or does she just have to work harder? And no, you can't learn everything online. Things like science lab needs to be done in person. But having a mix of virtual and hands on is much more doable and puts the kids less at risk. The complaints about how people's kids' lives are going to ruined and they won't get into college, yada yada is nonsense.

 

[dreamer17555]

That's not how it works, though. You cannot just zoom or text the teacher anytime for an answer to a question. They are not usually available. My kids teachers have office hours once a week, for 30 minutes. If you are working on an assignment and get stuck, you might have to wait until after the assignment is due to speak to the teacher. You can email, but they only check email during school hours, so you might have to wait several hours or days for a reply.

This is where it is important to teach students a skill that they will carry with the the rest of their life- networking. They need to reach out to students in the class or even as the guidance counselor if that know tutors that were in that teacher's class last year. It won't be 100% the same but it is a place to start. Also learning to look at assignments right away, email as soon as you have an issue (in HS- college is different).

Also if you help your student frame that learning the ins and outs of office hours will help them in college, that it is frustrating but they are gaining a skill. My DD went to a residential HS on a college campus that was like a college with office hours- not easy for a 14 year old but now that she is in college? She has that skill down pat. My DD was frustrated to the point of tears many times at her unique HS but she figured it out. She learned to hunt down resources- fellow students in class, students who had the class before her, and how to use office hours wisely.

Your son is gaining a valuable skill and learning new skills is frustrating but he is getting there! If a student reaches out and says "I am lost", shows what they have been doing to attempt to figure it out, and turns in the best work they can many, many teachers will meet that student halfway- especially right now.

 

[VandVsmama]

That's not how it works, though. You cannot just zoom or text the teacher anytime for an answer to a question. They are not usually available. My kids teachers have office hours once a week, for 30 minutes. If you are working on an assignment and get stuck, you might have to wait until after the assignment is due to speak to the teacher. You can email, but they only check email during school hours, so you might have to wait several hours or days for a reply.

Not one of my kid's teachers teach out of a textbook. We HAVE the textbooks, but the teachers create lesson plans and primarily use Google Slides presentations to substitute for lectures. Often, the assignments that would have been in class work, have questions or problems (in the case of math and physics) that were not demonstrated in the slides presentations. So then what? Kid says "I don't know how to do this problem. There wasn't one like this in the notes." In person, a teacher could address this by demonstrating on the spot for the class. Instead, my kid tends to turn to online support via Khan Academy or You Tube, but then often those lessons are not meant for high school and they provide higher level ways to solve, which have not been learned yet. Thus, kid is even more confused. It's a mess.

For comparison, my husband is currently doing a fully online MASTERS degree program, and his workload and delivery system looks suspiciously similar to my son's 11th grade one. High school kids are NOT in college yet, so you can't just expect all of them to be able to handle that sort of learning platform. My own son has an IEP, and has serious executive function deficits. This independent learning situation is a massive fail for him. I have to help him SO much. He is not even college bound because we know he could not manage the workload and amount of independent study required.

It's definitely not a 'one size fits all' sort of situation.

For all of the parents out there whose children have transitioned easily to online instruction and are thriving: That's great! I'm happy that it's working out well. With everything going on in the world this year, that must be a huge relief.

But please also understand and try to put yourself in the shoes of a family for whom it is NOT going well.

Consider that not all households have reliable access to high speed Internet.
Consider that for some children, the only times they eat is when they're at school.
Consider that some children have legitimate learning disabilities that do not blend well with an online instruction format.
Consider that not everyone is like you.

That's all I'm asking people to consider. Step outside your own perspective of the world and try to look at it from another point of view instead. When we all try to do that a little more, we might not come across as quite so judgmental about child-rearing and education.

 

[Lilsia]

That's not how it works, though. You cannot just zoom or text the teacher anytime for an answer to a question. They are not usually available. My kids teachers have office hours once a week, for 30 minutes. If you are working on an assignment and get stuck, you might have to wait until after the assignment is due to speak to the teacher. You can email, but they only check email during school hours, so you might have to wait several hours or days for a reply.

Not one of my kid's teachers teach out of a textbook. We HAVE the textbooks, but the teachers create lesson plans and primarily use Google Slides presentations to substitute for lectures. Often, the assignments that would have been in class work, have questions or problems (in the case of math and physics) that were not demonstrated in the slides presentations. So then what? Kid says "I don't know how to do this problem. There wasn't one like this in the notes." In person, a teacher could address this by demonstrating on the spot for the class. Instead, my kid tends to turn to online support via Khan Academy or You Tube, but then often those lessons are not meant for high school and they provide higher level ways to solve, which have not been learned yet. Thus, kid is even more confused. It's a mess.

For comparison, my husband is currently doing a fully online MASTERS degree program, and his workload and delivery system looks suspiciously similar to my son's 11th grade one. High school kids are NOT in college yet, so you can't just expect all of them to be able to handle that sort of learning platform. My own son has an IEP, and has serious executive function deficits. This independent learning situation is a massive fail for him. I have to help him SO much. He is not even college bound because we know he could not manage the workload and amount of independent study required.

You are pretty much describing how school used to be for us. If you didn't understand something after class then you were stuck waiting until you saw your teacher again. Have your child speak up and ask questions. Why do we keep blaming everybody else? If your child is struggling then talk to the teacher.

 

[Lilsia]

It's definitely not a 'one size fits all' sort of situation.

For all of the parents out there whose children have transitioned easily to online instruction and are thriving: That's great! I'm happy that it's working out well. With everything going on in the world this year, that must be a huge relief.

But please also understand and try to put yourself in the shoes of a family for whom it is NOT going well.

Consider that not all households have reliable access to high speed Internet.
Consider that for some children, the only times they eat is when they're at school.
Consider that some children have legitimate learning disabilities that do not blend well with an online instruction format.
Consider that not everyone is like you.

That's all I'm asking people to consider. Step outside your own perspective of the world and try to look at it from another point of view instead. When we all try to do that a little more, we might not come across as quite so judgmental about child-rearing and education.

We are not talking about these kids. Their parent's are not on this board complaining how their kids won't get into college because of online learning.

 

[DLgal]

I'm aware virtual college has around for a while. My daughter has been enrolled for the last semester and a half. And she'll tell you for her courses, it's just not the same. It's harder to understand the instructors in some of her STEM classes, it's harder when you can't ask questions on the spot. Not everything lends itself well to virtual training. And that's the point. So many different degree programs, so many different learning styles.

Exactly. Listen, I went to college in the dark ages of the late 90s. I know virtual learning and "online college" has been a thing for awhile now, but I still fully believe that an online college is not even remotely equal to attending in person. It's just not. When you drop big $$$ to attend a university, you are paying for the learning EXPERIENCE and the expertise of the professors doing the lectures and running the discussion groups, labs, etc. I attended several HOURS a week of in person lectures, labs, and discussion groups. There is simply no way to do that online to the same degree. It's a watered down version, which is why online colleges are cheaper and the degrees don't hold as much weight in the real world.

This is the crux of the outrage at the fact that universities like Harvard went fully online but then didn't lower their tuition. And I totally understand that frustration, because even though this pandemic isn't anyone's fault, and we have all had to adjust how we do things, it is simply not the same experience, and should not cost an equal amount.

I worry that kids in their first semester of virtual college right now have NO idea what is actually coming when in person classes resume.

 

[Heigh-Ho]

Being behind at any point in life isn't a permanent state. I think if we all started focusing on raising children with resilience and praising effort, not just results, we could teach them it doesn't matter what setbacks, keep working hard and you will get there.

With some kids it actually is a permanent state. Conversations in the past have been particularly focused on this and how to bridge that gap. Minorities and low income are ones where this is more evident.

Math is a subject that is considered consequential meaning if you fall behind one year making up that the next year is even harder. Math is also a subject that has seen issues. Not every subject has been affected the same but math is one that stood out as being a problem and if you think about how math builds typically year after year you can see how struggling one year and most especially when you didn't struggle before and now you don't even know how to get back on track between the virtual, remote or hybrid learning.

I only wish people wouldn't assume the worst out of everyone if they see someone else isn't doing the best at everything. If we teach off effort not results then we have to realize that effort isn't tied to grades all the time and that kids maybe be trying their best but not succeeding according to what their parents think they should or what a particular grade is made up of.

 

[dreamer17555]

It's definitely not a 'one size fits all' sort of situation.

Consider that not all households have reliable access to high speed Internet.
Consider that for some children, the only times they eat is when they're at school.
Consider that some children have legitimate learning disabilities that do not blend well with an online instruction format.
Consider that not everyone is like you.

I agree that we need to get these students back right away. I think everyone is saying IF the student has a semi stable home life.

Also schools that are remote here are sending home food for students. I have an autistic son so I get first hand the IEP part of this. Remote learning isn't perfect but we need to also look at it is a skill students are learning VS how far behind they are on a certain exam.

 

[Lilsia]

Exactly. Listen, I went to college in the dark ages of the late 90s. I know virtual learning and "online college" has been a thing for awhile now, but I still fully believe that an online college is not even remotely equal to attending in person. It's just not. When you drop big $$$ to attend a university, you are paying for the learning EXPERIENCE and the expertise of the professors doing the lectures and running the discussion groups, labs, etc. I attended several HOURS a week of in person lectures, labs, and discussion groups. There is simply no way to do that online to the same degree. It's a watered down version, which is why online colleges are cheaper and the degrees don't hold as much weight in the real world.

This is the crux of the outrage at the fact that universities like Harvard went fully online but then didn't lower their tuition. And I totally understand that frustration, because even though this pandemic isn't anyone's fault, and we have all had to adjust how we do things, it is simply not the same experience, and should not cost an equal amount.

I worry that kids in their first semester of virtual college right now have NO idea what is actually coming when in person classes resume.

That is a very fair point. These are unusual times and we need to make the best of it. Everyone is in the same situation and teaching your kids to roll with the punches is the best thing that we can do now.

 

[DLgal]

You are pretty much describing how school used to be for us. If you didn't understand something after class then you were stuck waiting until you saw your teacher again. Have your child speak up and ask questions. Why do we keep blaming everybody else? If your child is struggling then talk to the teacher.

Well, I saw my teachers every day, so if I got stuck on homework, I could literally just ask the next day in class. My sons USED to see their teachers every day too.

They now see their teachers ONE day per week in person. They have each class twice a week. One in person, the other is virtual independent day. So, it's NOT the same. If my son has Physics on Thursdays in person, then his independent day for physics is Friday (his school uses a block schedule), his next opportunity to speak to that teacher is Monday during office hours. All assignments are due midnight on Sunday every week, so Monday is too late. Emailing the teacher Friday afternoon is too late for a response until Monday. See what I'm saying? This is just the reality of what our kids are having to navigate.

And for what it's worth, both my son and I HAVE been emailing the teachers. All semester. THEY even admit that this is much harder than just having daily in person classes. I can only imagine having 60-120 kids (most teachers have 2-4 classes they teach) and having to handle the emails from ALL of them individually rather than being able to simply address questions during class time. I have had some emails take a week to get a response, as has my son, because the teachers simply cannot respond in a timely manner to so many kids. Stop acting like all the issues kids are having are THEIR fault. They are relying on overwhelmed teachers who, for the most part, are making this up as they go along.

 

[Lilsia]

Well, I saw my teachers every day, so if I got stuck on homework, I could literally just ask the next day in class. My sons USED to see their teachers every day too.

They now see their teachers ONE day per week in person. They have each class twice a week. One in person, the other is virtual independent day. So, it's NOT the same. If my son has Physics on Thursdays in person, then his independent day for physics is Friday (his school uses a block schedule), his next opportunity to speak to that teacher is Monday during office hours. All assignments are due midnight on Sunday every week, so Monday is too late. Emailing the teacher Friday afternoon is too late for a response until Monday. See what I'm saying? This is just the reality of what our kids are having to navigate.

And for what it's worth, both my son and I HAVE been emailing the teachers. All semester. THEY even admit that this is much harder than just having daily in person classes. I can only imagine having 60-120 kids (most teachers have 2-4 classes they teach) and having to handle the emails from ALL of them individually rather than being able to simply address questions during class time. I have had some emails take a week to get a response, as has my son, because the teachers simply cannot respond in a timely manner to so many kids. Stop acting like all the issues kids are having are THEIR fault. They are relying on overwhelmed teachers who, for the most part, are making this up as they go along.

I get what you are saying and I know there are challenges. It is frustrating to hear some on here thinking that their kid's lives are totally ruined because of this though. It's hard, I get that. But we need to keep things in perspective. Being healthy and alive is the main goal right now.

 

[mjkacmom]

But that's life isn't it? It gets harder and harder. Is you daughter failing all of her classes or does she just have to work harder? And no, you can't learn everything online. Things like science lab needs to be done in person. But having a mix of virtual and hands on is much more doable and puts the kids less at risk. The complaints about how people's kids' lives are going to ruined and they won't get into college, yada yada is nonsense.

I have 2 high school seniors with a mix of AP and honors classes, and a sophomore in the honors college at her university (exercise science major going for her dpt. They all have straight A’s for the spring and fall, all 100%. They’ve always been great with independent learning. They feel like the curriculum has been watered down, it’s too easy, they are asked to do less work. Online labs are pretty bad, Dd19 has 2 each semester.

 

[dreamer17555]

With some kids it actually is a permanent state. Conversations in the past have been particularly focused on this and how to bridge that gap. Minorities and low income are ones where this is more evident.

Math is a subject that is considered consequential meaning if you fall behind one year making up that the next year is even harder. Math is also a subject that has seen issues. Not every subject has been affected the same but math is one that stood out as being a problem and if you think about how math builds typically year after year you can see how struggling one year and most especially when you didn't struggle before and now you don't even know how to get back on track between the virtual, remote or hybrid learning.

I only wish people wouldn't assume the worst out of everyone if they see someone else isn't doing the best at everything. If we teach off effort not results then we have to realize that effort isn't tied to grades all the time and that kids maybe be trying their best but not succeeding according to what their parents think they should or what a particular grade is made up of.

Math is one of the trickier ones because of the levels we set for students but even then there are ways to catch a student up. And I fully agree about grades. I have this issue with my oldest who has decided they mean everything. At one point I got a tearful phone call because she thought she would end up with an A- in a course (ended up an A anyway). She was beside herself and I am sitting here like did you do your best? work hard? learn something new? Then you are just fine. That getting through this school year at all is a feat worth celebrating. We should be praising these kids for getting through all of this. It is hard.

 

[Lilsia]

I have 2 high school seniors with a mix of AP and honors classes, and a sophomore in the honors college at her university (exercise science major going for her dpt. They all have straight A’s for the spring and fall, all 100%. They’ve always been great with independent learning. They feel like the curriculum has been watered down, it’s too easy, they are asked to do less work. Online labs are pretty bad, Dd19 has 2 each semester.

That is what I have been hearing, that they are not teaching nearly as much and at the level as they usually do. My SIL is a teacher in a private school and says that many of her students,(who all are affluent enough to have internet and laptops) just don't do the work. Not because they don't understand it but because they "forgot". Every demographics have their challenges. But when you have everything you need and still fail, some of that falls on the students and parents.

 

[VandVsmama]

We are not talking about these kids. Their parent's are not on this board complaining how their kids won't get into college because of online learning.

Ok, maybe I misunderstood your intent from your previous posts.

 

[piglet1979]

They now see their teachers ONE day per week in person. They have each class twice a week. One in person, the other is virtual independent day. So, it's NOT the same. If my son has Physics on Thursdays in person, then his independent day for physics is Friday (his school uses a block schedule), his next opportunity to speak to that teacher is Monday during office hours. All assignments are due midnight on Sunday every week, so Monday is too late. Emailing the teacher Friday afternoon is too late for a response until Monday. See what I'm saying? This is just the reality of what our kids are having to navigate.

This I would agree is a failure on the school district. My middle and high schooler has class every day with each of their teachers/subjects. It is like if they were in school. The only difference is they are in a meeting room. They use Black Board. This is something that was pushed by parents.

 

[choirfarm]

nm

 

[Lilsia]

YES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THESE KIDS!!! Many of us are worried about them. 75 percent of the kids in my district won't go to college. Losing a year and a half is devastating for them. they don't have the pick yourself up by the bootstrap kids that you describe because they are not lucky enough to have you for a mom. I had parents of kids in my classroom encouraging their children to drop out at 16 because they did.

That said. School is not safe for teachers. We need the vaccine to work. The most vulnerable will lose. Those who are not special needs and have involved parents will do fine. The pandemic just widens the gap for the haves and have nots.

Ok, what do you want to do about it? I can't force these parents to give a crap. I don't have the money to help these people. It is up to the kids to do what they need to do to help themselves because those are exactly the type of kids that do need to "pick themselves up". It is a sad, harsh reality. Trust me, my family knows about the horrors of what life can bring more than most people. Nobody expected or planned on a pandemic. You would rather that these kids go to school and have the chance of getting sick or getting their families sick? We could be "worried about them" all we like, but nothing is going to change their reality. Their community needs to work out a plan for them. That is the only way things will change for them is if their community helps them.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I get what you are saying and I know there are challenges. It is frustrating to hear some on here thinking that their kid's lives are totally ruined because of this though. It's hard, I get that. But we need to keep things in perspective. Being healthy and alive is the main goal right now.

Mental health also right? That goes along with health right?

I think generally speaking most are fuddling through this it's neither the best nor the absolute worst although from what I'm hearing hybrid is nearly universally seen as an issue but most of the time the kids seem to prefer the in-person days not the remote days. That said this thread seemed to be a good one to see that while sometimes grades are fine other things aren't. While it's focused on college there are younger kids mentioned: https://www.disboards.com/threads/how-was-that-first-semester-of-college-2020.3819862/

 

[dreamer17555]

YES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THESE KIDS!!! Many of us are worried about them. 75 percent of the kids in my district won't go to college. Losing a year and a half is devastating for them. they don't have the pick yourself up by the bootstrap kids that you describe because they are not lucky enough to have you for a mom. I had parents of kids in my classroom encouraging their children to drop out at 16 because they did.

That said. School is not safe for teachers. We need the vaccine to work. The most vulnerable will lose. Those who are not special needs and have involved parents will do fine. The pandemic just widens the gap for the haves and have nots.

Thats why I think we need to triage students who NEED to be back. And yes these students are likely aware they are disadvantaged as right now they are lining up daily for free lunch or trying to find a wifi school bus that comes to their area. They are more aware than we give them credit for and the trauma of figuring out they are disadvantaged is nothing compared to what is happening or might happen without them in a classroom.

We need to keep teachers safe and that means limiting students in their classrooms to only those that need to be there.