Are you an evil MP3 downloader?

[Mickey's Monkey]

I think the digital issue is also a red herring. I can transfer a cassette or an LP to digital form. Yes, the quality isn't the same, but the average person really doesn't care.

What you choose to do with material you have purchased is you own business. If you want to convert your LP's and cassettes to digital format, there is nothing wrong with that. But, the minute you choose to place those files on a P2P network for others to download, that's where you start to get into illegal territory. Also, the minute you download music from P2P networks that you have not paid for you are essentially doing the same thing as shoplifting, or stealing. So, the digital issue is not a red herring. It is the THE issue. The ease with which this material can be shared and change hands without the artist seeing any compensation for their work whatsoever.

 

[ducklite]

Im still trying to understand the justificatoin others have made concerning how much money artists may make. Why does how much money one makes make it okay to steal from that person?

Bravo! And if you think most artists are getting filthy rich, you're so very mistaken. I know several with gold records--but no wall to hang them on. Yes, they are in effect "homeless" even with a gold plaque to show for their work.

Anne

 

[chadfromdallas]

Bravo! And if you think most artists are getting filthy rich, you're so very mistaken. I know several with gold records--but no wall to hang them on. Yes, they are in effect "homeless" even with a gold plaque to show for their work.

Anne

You need to meet new people then. The ones you state you know aren't too bright if they have a gold record and are poor. 500,000 copies should yield a decent amount of money unless you are letting your someone rip you off.

 

[CheshireVal]

Coming in late to this thread, but I'll admit that I used to download pretty regularly on Napster back before all the hooplah started. Back then, I was also buying TONS of CDs, too, because I could listen to the songs first. Therefore, I knew buying the CD wasn't going to be a waste of money.

Nowadays, I'm too jittery to really download much (though I do admit to downloading some Disney theme park stuff on occasion ). And.... I haven't bought a CD in probably a year.

I think there's a definite corrolation.

 

[ducklite]

You need to meet new people then. The ones you state you know aren't too bright if they have a gold record and are poor. 500,000 copies should yield a decent amount of money unless you are letting your someone rip you off.

You have no idea how it all works then.

By the time the tour support and recording/distribution costs are paid back, there's just not much if anything left over coming from the label. Management gets their 10-20%. The agent gets 10%. Business managers generally are paid a flat fee. They've got to pay for their buses, trucks, crew, hotels, airfare. For many newer bands the crew makes more than the band does--they need to have the best show or risk bad reviews, and good crew doesn't come cheap. The venue takes 30-40% of your gross merchandise sales after taxes. Unless they get songwriting royalties, a band member who's act sold half a million CD's hasn't made a whole lot of money.

Anne

 

[disneysteve]

It is legal to record off the radio becuase the radio stations have paid a fee that to the record companies to compensate for you ability to do this. You pay the radio station by listening to their ads. When you download an MP3, no one pays anyone for the rights.

This is the point that I get hung up on. If I hear a song I like on the radio and record it, that station has paid a fee to the record company to broadcast that song. That's legal. If, however, I hear a song I like on the radio and then go to my computer and download it, the radio station has paid the same fee to the record company. But that is illegal. Either way, I get a free copy of the song. Either way, the record company got their payment. In fact, the download way the record company also sold a copy of the CD because someone somewhere had to purchase it to share it. So I certainly understand why those who share their music are breaking the law. I just think the argument against downloading isn't quite as clear cut. Of course, if everyone would stop sharing, then there would be nothing to download and that would be the end of the problem.

 

[chadfromdallas]

You have no idea how it all works then.

I sure as hell would be doing it differently, that is for sure.

 

[yeartolate]

The news just reported that 405 University of California Berkeley students are being sued for downloading. I think they said the average number of downloads was 2300 (I may be wrong). Apparently they have access to superfast computers that can download in a fraction of the time. It looks like the movie studios will be going after them next. Their computers can download a movie in 30 seconds!!!!

Guess college just got more expensive.

 

[chadfromdallas]

The news just reported that 405 University of California Berkeley students are being sued for downloading. I think they said the average number of downloads was 2300 (I may be wrong). Apparently they have access to superfast computers that can download in a fraction of the time. It looks like the movie studios will be going after them next. Their computers can download a movie in 30 seconds!!!!

Guess college just got more expensive.

http://www.webpronews.com/news/ebus...LitigiousMuscleAgainst405CollegeStudents.html

 

[disneysteve]

I used to download pretty regularly on Napster back before all the hooplah started. Back then, I was also buying TONS of CDs, too, because I could listen to the songs first. Therefore, I knew buying the CD wasn't going to be a waste of money.

Nowadays, I'm too jittery to really download much (though I do admit to downloading some Disney theme park stuff on occasion ). And.... I haven't bought a CD in probably a year.

I think there's a definite corrolation.

Of course, some folks here will call this rationalizing an illegal act, and that's true, but its a common sentiment that I think the music industry was slow to pick up on. There are legal ways around this now, however.

1. The legal music download sites let you listen to the first 30 seconds or so of a song before purchasing it. Some sites let you stream entire songs. I think Amazon does this.

2. Places like Barnes and Noble or Borders let you listen to most or all of an album on the in-store system just by scanning the UPC and putting on the headphones. My daughter has bought a few CD's this way that she never would have known she liked otherwise.

The problem is so many of us got spoiled by being able to sit in our pj's and download all the music we wanted for free that it's hard to get us to go back to doing it the proper way.

 

[ducklite]

I sure as hell would be doing it differently, that is for sure.

Regretfully it's not so easy. And more and more the way the business works there are TWO record companies with their finger in the pot of each CD produced.

Anne

 

[disneysteve]

The news just reported that 405 University of California Berkeley students are being sued for downloading. I think they said the average number of downloads was 2300 (I may be wrong). Apparently they have access to superfast computers that can download in a fraction of the time. It looks like the movie studios will be going after them next. Their computers can download a movie in 30 seconds!!!!

I know someone at one of those schools and this is absolutely true. This person has downloaded hundreds if not thousands of songs and dozens of DVD quality movies. All you need is a laptop with a CD/DVD burner and you've got endless entertainment with minimal effort. I'll have to get in tough with them and get the scoop about the RIAA action.

 

[chadfromdallas]

I know someone at one of those schools and this is absolutely true. This person has downloaded hundreds if not thousands of songs and dozens of DVD quality movies. All you need is a laptop with a CD/DVD burner and you've got endless entertainment with minimal effort. I'll have to get in tough with them and get the scoop about the RIAA action.

With the 4 mbps speed I get with cable, you can have a dvd quality movie(600-700mb, divx) in less than 1 1/2 hours most of the time

 

[Charade]

. The exact (and I imagine it's pretty close, word-for-word) argument you are using was used by those parties to argue against tape recordings. At the time, tapes were about as good as it gets in terms of quality, so that wasn't an issue, since they didn't have anything better at the time. It is NOT a red herring, it is an extremely salient point. When it happened before, the recording industry adapted by increasing costs in other places. The technology has changed, and the record industry must adapt again. Instead, they are running around, calling press conferences in front of their mansions, complaining about how much they've been hurt by the people at Napster

I'm not saying anyone has a "right" to do anything, nor am I saying that there is no product out there worth listening to. What I am saying is that this is not the primary issue. The issue is that the technology is not going anywhere, and is, in fact, becoming more widely spread, despite the legal bullying of the RIAA.

They are very much so concerned about the quality of digital "originals" such as CDs, DVDs and HDTV. So much so, that they want digital "flags" put in to the HTDV data stream so that only licensed devices can play them.

 

[Mickey's Monkey]

This is the point that I get hung up on. If I hear a song I like on the radio and record it, that station has paid a fee to the record company to broadcast that song. That's legal. If, however, I hear a song I like on the radio and then go to my computer and download it, the radio station has paid the same fee to the record company. But that is illegal. Either way, I get a free copy of the song. Either way, the record company got their payment. In fact, the download way the record company also sold a copy of the CD because someone somewhere had to purchase it to share it. So I certainly understand why those who share their music are breaking the law. I just think the argument against downloading isn't quite as clear cut. Of course, if everyone would stop sharing, then there would be nothing to download and that would be the end of the problem.

that would be like saying because I heard a song on the radio I liked I should be able to go to my local Tower Records and steal the single.

 

[MouseClubMom]

Regretfully it's not so easy. And more and more the way the business works there are TWO record companies with their finger in the pot of each CD produced.

Anne

That is so true. Anne, I think this is a losing battle. Those that download illegally can somehow justify it in their own minds and will continue to do so without listening to the legalities or moralities involved.

Anyone like myself that works DIRECTLY in the Music Industry can see the enormous hit from all of this "illegal downloading". If something like this threatened anyone else's job then they would be screaming too.

 

[disneysteve]

that would be like saying because I heard a song on the radio I liked I should be able to go to my local Tower Records and steal the single.

My point was I personally don't see the difference between recording the song off the radio, which is legal, and downloading it off the computer, which is illegal. Either way I get the song for free.

MouseClubMom - Great picture!

 

[Mickey's Monkey]

My point was I personally don't see the difference between recording the song off the radio, which is legal, and downloading it off the computer, which is illegal. Either way I get the song for free.

MouseClubMom - Great picture!

And you can get a song for free by stealing it from Tower Records. Same concept as downloading a song from a P2P site.

 

[oracle]

Anyone like myself that works DIRECTLY in the Music Industry can see the enormous hit from all of this "illegal downloading". If something like this threatened anyone else's job then they would be screaming too.

I know the recording industry likes to use this argument any time they discuss file sharing, but I don't see the evidence for it. In fact, the evidence seems to suggest the opposite is true. 2004 saw a rise in CD sales of 2.3%, which is not bad, considering how awful pop music has been lately. Here's a couple news stories supporting my figures:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4150747.stm

http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html

 

[disneysteve]

And you can get a song for free by stealing it from Tower Records. Same concept as downloading a song from a P2P site.

So why is it legal to record from the radio?