AP's to get 20 FP+ per quarter

One point completely absent in this thread as yet is that there are still a decent contingent of guests who do not have access to or do not care to have access to the Internet and/or smartphone technology. FP+ is going to leave this group almost completely on the outside looking in.

One more reason why everyone will not be on "equal footing" before entering the park with FP+.

And yes I know, before its said: adapt or die. ;)

:thumbsup2

Hmmm, I'm sure I saw a Mesaboy2 posting on one of Josh's easywdw Universal articles last week?:wave2:
 
bauer1168 said:
I can't remember every post on this thread, so my apologies if I'm way off the mark here.

I think using the terms 'abuse', 'abusing' the system, whether AP or FP system is a bit harsh. It's more a case of they have done their homework on the system in question within the terms and conditions of it.

Would you describe someone who has done their research/homework for a test and gotten a better mark than someone who hasn't studied for the same exam as 'abuse' or 'abusing' the exam if they had the same amount of time to study and used the same text books to gather their work?

Am I abusing the system if I am at MK at RD and go straight to PP to grab a FP with return time of 9:40am-10:40am, then go to ETWB, pick up another FP at 9:40am for another ride whilst someone else at RD on the same day goes straight to Mickey's Philharmagic or COP first, then gets to ETWB and finds a massive wait, then gets their first FP of the day for a ride with a return time of 12pm? Is that 'abusing the system' or is it that I have done my research and someone else hasn't?

If i was describe someone 'abusing' a system in WDW, it would be the people who bring in bags of plain nachos and plastic plates and will head to Cosmic Rays and help themselves to the topping bars.
People who are staying offsite and pool hop around Disney Resorts.
Or people who go to EMH with expired resort cards and get to go on rides during Evening EMH. Very small minority I know, but to me, that is abusing some of the systems in WDW.

Don't forget that knowing that the Mickey M&G and Dumbo FPs are not connected to the system is abuse too!

There was a poster a couple months back who scoffed at the idea of having an FP advantage because, you know, you took the time to research how it works. I guess that means the only fair way for FPs to be distributed is for everyone to be equally clueless. I have not missed this poster.

bauer1168 said:
:thumbsup2

Hmmm, I'm sure I saw a Mesaboy2 posting on one of Josh's easywdw Universal articles last week?:wave2:

That'd be me. Don't tell Robo, but I like Uni too. ;)
 
AP's, FP's, FP+, terms and conditions - it's all part of Yield Management. Google that term and you'll get a better feel for what Disney is doing here.

So if the current FP+ program is only offered to guests who stay on-site, then offering it to AP holders would be considered an additional perk or benefit and Disney would have done that to encourage additional purchases of AP's because they find them to be profitable and want to protect that profitability.

But if any limits placed on FP+ for AP holders are done primarily because Disney needs to limit that group's use of resources, then it's because they don't find AP's to be profitable.

It really is as simple as that.
 
There is so much misinformation in this thread at this point it no longer even makes sense!!

Then perhaps you'll find this useful (courtesy of Cornell University):

"Yield Management is the umbrella term for a set of strategies that enable capacity-constrained service industries to realize optimum revenue from operations. The core concept of yield management is to provide the right service to the right customer at the right time for the right price. That concept involves careful definition of service, customer, time, and price. The service can be defined according to the dimensions of the service, how and when it is delivered, and how, when, and whether it is reserved. Timing involves both the timing of the service delivery and the timing of when the customer makes known the desire for the service, whether by reservation or by walking in to the business. Price can be set according to the timing of the service, the timing of the reservation, the type of service, or according to other rules that seem appropriate. Finally, the customer can be defined according to demand characteristics relating to the service, the timing, and the price. The ideal outcome of a revenue management strategy is to match customers' time and service characteristics to their willingness to pay-ensuring that the customer acquires the desired service at the desired time at an acceptable price, while the organization gains the maximum revenue possible given the customer and business characteristics.

The strategic levers of yield management can be summarized as four Cs: namely, calendar, clock, capacity, and cost. They are bound together by a fifth C: the customer. The strategic levers of yield management are geared to matching service timing and pricing to customers' willingness to pay for service in relation to its timing. Based on customers' demand levels and characteristics, management can shift the demand of those customers who are relatively price sensitive but time insensitive to off-peak times. Shifting that demand clears prime times for customers who are relatively time sensitive but price insensitive."

Would you agree that AP holders may be price sensitive but not time sensitive, while non-AP holders may be time sensitive but not price sensitive?
 

I it would be the people who bring in bags of plain nachos and plastic plates and will head to Cosmic Rays and help themselves to the topping bars.
People who are staying offsite and pool hop around Disney Resorts.
Or people who go to EMH with expired resort cards and get to go on rides during Evening EMH. Very small minority I know, but to me, that is abusing some of the systems in WDW.

Well now there are some good ideas that never occurred to me!

I could go stay at POP on AP discount for ONE night and enjoy the EMH for many nights.... oooooohhhhh!

Next we will be abusing the system because we go buy dinner at OKW and the girls watch the outdoor movie while we eat..... man I hope we don't get removed some day for abusing the system. Oh wait... we've done it about two dozen times and no one has EVER said word one to us.
 
Then perhaps you'll find this useful (courtesy of Cornell University):

"Yield Management is the umbrella term for a set of strategies that enable capacity-constrained service industries to realize optimum revenue from operations. The core concept of yield management is to provide the right service to the right customer at the right time for the right price. That concept involves careful definition of service, customer, time, and price. The service can be defined according to the dimensions of the service, how and when it is delivered, and how, when, and whether it is reserved. Timing involves both the timing of the service delivery and the timing of when the customer makes known the desire for the service, whether by reservation or by walking in to the business. Price can be set according to the timing of the service, the timing of the reservation, the type of service, or according to other rules that seem appropriate. Finally, the customer can be defined according to demand characteristics relating to the service, the timing, and the price. The ideal outcome of a revenue management strategy is to match customers' time and service characteristics to their willingness to pay-ensuring that the customer acquires the desired service at the desired time at an acceptable price, while the organization gains the maximum revenue possible given the customer and business characteristics.

The strategic levers of yield management can be summarized as four Cs: namely, calendar, clock, capacity, and cost. They are bound together by a fifth C: the customer. The strategic levers of yield management are geared to matching service timing and pricing to customers' willingness to pay for service in relation to its timing. Based on customers' demand levels and characteristics, management can shift the demand of those customers who are relatively price sensitive but time insensitive to off-peak times. Shifting that demand clears prime times for customers who are relatively time sensitive but price insensitive."

Not one bit. I graduated from college... this is not new information.

That is why they sell a cheaper AP that specifically excludes peak times. We pay a premium to have EQUAL access to the parks on any given day as a tourist.

Further more... during stages of closing we are amongst the last group to be denied entry. Disney is not trying to keep us out. Who do you think is there spending money during non peak times?

It is plain and simple.... if AP's didn't yield SOME benefit to WDW they wouldn't sell them.
 
Not one bit. I graduated from college... this is not new information.

That is why they sell a cheaper AP that specifically excludes peak times. We pay a premium to have EQUAL access to the parks on any given day as a tourist.

Further more... during stages of closing we are amongst the last group to be denied entry. Disney is not trying to keep us out. Who do you think is there spending money during non peak times?

It is plain and simple.... if AP's didn't yield SOME benefit to WDW they wouldn't sell them.

You seem to be looking at this only from the standpoint of what you paid for your AP versus what you get. I'm suggesting that Disney's motivations for what they do are much broader than that.
 
/
Suellen said:
There is so much misinformation in this thread at this point it no longer even makes sense!!

All the cars in lot have Florida plates because they are rentals! Not because they belong to locals.

Most locals get there during the week after regular school/work hours, a LOT of locals have out of state plates since they are snow birds and keep their car registrationin their home state. This logic is flawed.

Next - no one is abusing their passes or CM entrances. Our passes have no blackout days and we get FP just like every other guest - one per two hour period or your FP time - whichever comes first.

The perposed abuse comes from those that think pulling a Soarin FP - waiting two hours and using your next FP also on Soarin is abuse. Ridiculous. No one is getting anymore then they are allowed.

However under the new plan - a tourist with a ten day ticket will get FP+ for everyday of their visit - while an AP holder with the same 10 day trip will get FP+ for only half those days.

I'm pretty sure us locals who show up at 6:00 - grab a FP for Jungle Cruise or Buzz Lightyear - grab dinner - then Ride our ride ms head home are not the ones making it difficult for people to get FP.

Under new FP+ this is now impossible to do. WE are not any kind of "superusers" "FP abusers" or rest assured - we are not the ones arrivin at rope drop and running people over to get to the TSMM mess in the morning. As a matter of fact I've ridden it once since July and I waited standby.

And to the person who thinks they need to fix HC "abuse" is there some? Maybe - how are you going to prove it? While I was in my wheelchair with a broken leg we often went in regular line OR we went in a special entrance and sat and waited (well I sat - the rest of the family stood). If there was mire the. One HC family in front of us - forget about it! We would wait way longer then if I'd if been on foot. Now my leg is healed (somewhat) but I can't go up and down stairs without extreme pain. So I have a card that allows me to bypass stairs in a line. Wow - big abuse there too. In addition to that I am supposed to first attempt to get a FP for the ride BEFORE using my GAC. How is that supposed to work with only 5 park days per quarter I'm allowed to get a FP?? Luckily for me specifically there are only a few line queues that meet my special need - bit what if for some reason I needed it at all rides? This is a mess really. FP+ should either live in unison with FP or it should have died during the idea phase.

I am from the UK but imo this post makes sense to me. I would think that Florida residents rather than being a 'nuisance' are the ones that keep the numbers up during low periods of the year. They should be treated with respect from disboards and disney. They are the ones that are there during all times of the year. Regulars are your bread & butter of a business. Also being disabled I come to Disney from the UK because of what I can do not what I cant. Because of how it makes me feel. I meet barriers everyday of my life. If this new system makes it harder for any of us then thats bad. We are all paying customers, love disney and forgive us if we find ways of trying to ride the attractions many times because we love them so much! We aren't abusers we are die hard fans!
 
Robo, I think I know where you might be going (they could be rentals, that doesn't represent everyone staying at the resorts, etc) but a large number of people in the park - the ones we talked to, the ones we stood in line with, the ones we shared tables with at Biergarten, the ones we watched fireworks with - many were Florida residents.

This is probably because we are not in vacation mode and are more accustomed to making small talk with the vacationers.

So the ones you shared a table with at sit down restaurant....? No that can't be... locals don't spend money at the parks.
 
You seem to be looking at this only from the standpoint of what you paid for your AP versus what you get. I'm suggesting that Disney's motivations for what they do are much broader than that.

Unless they make it so restrictive that locals stop going. They already lost a lot this year with adult prices for the under 9 set.
 
This is probably because we are not in vacation mode and are more accustomed to making small talk with the vacationers.

So the ones you shared a table with at sit down restaurant....? No that can't be... locals don't spend money at the parks.

Yes, it was actually a foursome who used to work there. They were very helpful with my beer selection :)

If we strip away the feelings, emotions and opinions that any change can provoke, I think it's clear that Disney is simply trying to manage things. And for those not familiar with yield management techniques, I thought it would be helpful to see how those techniques can not only explain the logic behind Disney's decisions, but even more helpful in anticipating future ones.

One of the biggest peeves of mine at Six Flags parks is the constantly expanding "levels" of FlashPass - serves as a case study in yield management. Let's just hope Disney doesn't go there.
 
I very much enjoy hearing everyone's take on it, and will be respectful of other views. :thumbsup2

The aspect I find most troubling is the elimination of park hopping combined with FP. I could live with the limit per day -- it's the "choose one park" that I'm having trouble not hating.

I couls see it being a non issue for those of us that are early morning people..we go to park #1.. ride everything we want to ride early..leave..go to park #2 and ride what we want there because we already scheduled our ride on those rides ..ie MK in the AM HS in the afternoon/evening and being able to ride TSMM with little wait!
 
I couls see it being a non issue for those of us that are early morning people..we go to park #1.. ride everything we want to ride early..leave..go to park #2 and ride what we want there because we already scheduled our ride on those rides ..ie MK in the AM HS in the afternoon/evening and being able to ride TSMM with little wait!

The way I understand it (and I very well could be wrong), you can only use FP+ at one park per day.

So no using FP+ at the second (or third) park of the day.

If that is correct, that is a HUGE issue for people that park hop.
 
The way I understand it (and I very well could be wrong), you can only use FP+ at one park per day.

So no using FP+ at the second (or third) park of the day.

If that is correct, that is a HUGE issue for people that park hop.

Exactly..when we go early in the AM the park is slow so we never pull or use FP's .. so you ride with little wait simply because people are not THERE then once the park gets crowded you leave and go to the park you have your FP+'s reserved for.
 
deleted - my response was redundant
 
If we strip away the feelings, emotions and opinions that any change can provoke

Disney's whole business is built on the feelings and emotions it elicits from the guests.

We go back because the emotions and feelings it produces.... screw with it enough and people will say enough.

Of course this is ALL speculation.... we don't know for fact that there is a 20 FP+ limit.... we don't KNOW regular FP is going away. Until there is official word I'm not worried actually.
 
justakrazymom said:
I couls see it being a non issue for those of us that are early morning people..we go to park #1.. ride everything we want to ride early..leave..go to park #2 and ride what we want there because we already scheduled our ride on those rides ..ie MK in the AM HS in the afternoon/evening and being able to ride TSMM with little wait!

My husband I were just discussing this. I was so upset about all the new speculated FP+. Then he mentioned what you just posted and know I am calm again.
 
Exactly..when we go early in the AM the park is slow so we never pull or use FP's .. so you ride with little wait simply because people are not THERE then once the park gets crowded you leave and go to the park you have your FP+'s reserved for.

Oh, ok, I see what you are saying now. :) Sorry for the confusion.
 
Exactly..when we go early in the AM the park is slow so we never pull or use FP's .. so you ride with little wait simply because people are not THERE then once the park gets crowded you leave and go to the park you have your FP+'s reserved for.

I think this will work really well. Most people will want to sleep in and make later FP+ reservations leaving the parks even less crowded in the am. HS is a perfect afternoon park with the exception of TSMM and this will fix that.

Really all the non planners will be left out because all of the slots will be booked very early on when this goes live. I see this as a real negative for people who book late or just don't plan.
 





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