AP Resort Rate Discussion~ the voice of reason!

[deba]

Just a thought or two concerning the 'ethic' issues of this whole business:

1. The folks that were saying that they were passholders without owning or buying one were definitely cheating Disney, and some people will do WHATEVER they can get away with and not give it a second thought. Disney can easily fix this problem by requiring an ADULT AP to be presented at check-in. There would be a few folks that were checking in late at night and could not buy or activate their pass until the next day...fine, but you must apply your active AP to your paperwork the next day or you would be charged RACK RATE for your entire stay at check-out. Just make a simple rule and enforce it! I can't shop at any of the military bases near my home because no one in my family is active military and thus we have no pass to get on base! No questions asked, no unrealistic expectations, easy to understand and enforce!

2. The fix to prevent people from making several reservations and then playing games that tie up rooms needlessly is simple, too. Just change the rules! How about an immediate nonrefundable deposit that IS transferable to another reservation made under the same name and credit card for another later date. Bad and sad things sometimes happen unexpectedly in a family. I can think of no circumstance that would cause folks to be happy that they were going to have to postpone their Disney vacation. As a matter of fact, these circumstance usually already bring on tears (both over the bad situation that they find themselves in as well as the prospect of a postponed vacation!). It is not necessary to add insult to injury and make it hurt worse. Just fix the problem...don't kill the loyal customer!

I am a loyal, renewing AP holder. I have never been to Universal and have no desire to go (no judgment for those that love both, though). I understand those who say that I bought the AP for unlimited entry into the parks, and I appreciate that, but If I cannot afford to stay when I come, then I just can't come so often, and so why would I need or buy an annual pass? And if we can't afford to come as often, then I for one will be truly sad for the loss, because for me and mine, WE LOVE DISNEY!!!!

 

[Nik's Mom]

I like your #2 option. I just bought our ap's for our May trip and we are planning on squeezing in another trip this year. But I must say, I don't like the new rules and would not book using our ap in the future. I do not like the non-refundable deposit. DH has the type of job where we may have to re-schedule, or what if I decide to stay at a different hotel? I hate the idea of losing my deposit. But if we could use that deposit for another date, or another hotel, that would be fine by me!

 

[Luv2Roam]

Luckily we have the option to use our WDW PAPs and NOT have to book any room. (whew!)
But, it sounds like for now the main change just makes AP holders not want to book on-line.
Doesn't all the on-line do is guarantee the lowest rate matched against the general public rate?
I mean that is nice. But not THAT nice with their other criteria.
I think things did need some tweeking in their booking system. But I can't see that many WDW AP holders wanting to book on-line due to the cancellation policy alone.
Hopefully this policy will not carry over. But I would not be surprised....
I suppose Disney looks at it as -- We promise AP guests the cheapest rate over the general public. But we are making up for any loss by taking a night's stay from No Show guests.
I think they would have been better off having at least a 5 day cancellation policy instead, and maybe requiring a minimum two night stay.
And I wonder how does this new cancellation policy come into play in case of hurricanes or deaths in a family.
If I were room booking, I would not take the AP on-line gamble right now.

 

[Sammie]

You can still book the old way, you just won't get the best deal.

As to checking ID's at the desk, sure they should do that, but it is not always going to happen. Someone is always going to find a new CM that buckles under the pressure of an irate guest. This way Disney completely eliminates that scene.

As long as this new program is not the only AP discount program why is everyone so upset.

As to the loyal customer I know this is will not be a popular opinion, but businesses need to reward the loyal customer if it is necessary to thier business success. If Disney can fill rooms each year with new customers, in a financial sense, it really does not matter.

I know some want to see Disney as this loving, caring, best friend, but they are a huge company with needs to make the most money they can. If this program makes them money, then it will stay. If it doesn't it will go.

Many of these forums forget that while this is a large group of loyal Disney fans, there are millions that never read a forum such as this that visit Disney and pay rack rate.

They may actually love this new program. I personally do not have a problem with it. I hope the discount is worth the restrictions. Since we don't know how much the discount is at this time, I won't book until I see how it goes. If I feel the discount does not warrant the restrictions I will simply use the old plan, or book a room I can afford without any discount.

Either way I still get the value of AP that I intended, unlimited park admission for a year.

 

[Lollipop Mom]

But I must say, I don't like the new rules and would not book using our ap in the future. I do not like the non-refundable deposit.

I understand not liking the nonrefundable deposit part BUT it's not time to get upset about this yet!!!! They have not said that ALL AP rate ressies will require a nonrefundable deposit. In fact, booking an AP rate online has the following deposit policy:

In order to receive a full refund of your deposit, notification of cancellation must be received at least 46 days prior to your arrival date.

Yes, that is less flexible than the 5 day we are used to but it's not nonrefundable, is it? It remains to be seen if ALL AP rate ressies will now have a 45 day cancel (definite possibility) or if it is just for online ressies. It wouldn't make much sense to have online have a 45 day cancel and phone in have a 5 day cancel....that hardly encourages you to use online but then it wouldn't be the first time Disney did something that doesn't make sense to me.

Don't get so up in arms yet. Based on everything we've been told (and I'm talking from more than one source, and they all agree) this will not be your only way to book AP rates and no one has said that ALL AP rates will be nonrefundable.

 

[BunnieGene]

Because I first noticed these threads last night and read many of them then, I've had time to sleep on it and at least try to understand possible reasons for Disney trying this type of booking. I have often booked AP rooms, but it never occurred to me to do so without actually having (or planning to buy) an AP. No one has ever asked me to show my pass, but I just assumed it had been verified before I arrived. So I wonder if I will be able to book AP rates by phone when I will know what the room rate is without having the pass (or voucher) in hand. My current AP expires mid-July, and I won't be back at Disney until the end of October...that's 1/3 of my pass that I wouldn't be able to use. Of course, I guess I could let this one expire...then buy a voucher...then book AP rate if one appears....I just can't commit to a non-refundable, 120 day minimum advance booking time frame for work reasons...my work schedule is too unpredictable.

 

[Gary M]

What am I missing? The new program says that you will get a discount if it's "offered to the general public". AP room rates are not offered to the general public. If they are talking about newspaper codes, etc. then why not wait for the general public codes and not be locked into a no refund situation. Will the AP holders that have the new package be first in line for the general public codes.

 

[susy]

Gary,

You raised the question about the AP holders that have the new package being first in line for the codes....

Well...who is going to monitor and check on this??? If they tell you there is no availabilty for your dates, for your resort and room view, how do you know it's true??? I guess because they would never lie??????
Why should they give the discount to someone who has ALREADY PAID A NON REFUNDABLE desposit and tell someone who is just calling up with a newspaper code, "Sorry". They would for sure lose THAT customer, who was just calling because of the discounts and may not go otherwise or may stay offsite OR may downgrade.

 

[diathoney]

Disney has done this before when travel was high - they cut back discounts and raise prices. We'll probably switch to Universal for a year or two until things slow down. It's all supply and demand.

 

[Nik's Mom]

I understand not liking the nonrefundable deposit part BUT it's not time to get upset about this yet!!!! They have not said that ALL AP rate ressies will require a nonrefundable deposit. In fact, booking an AP rate online has the following deposit policy:



Yes, that is less flexible than the 5 day we are used to but it's not nonrefundable, is it? It remains to be seen if ALL AP rate ressies will now have a 45 day cancel (definite possibility) or if it is just for online ressies. It wouldn't make much sense to have online have a 45 day cancel and phone in have a 5 day cancel....that hardly encourages you to use online but then it wouldn't be the first time Disney did something that doesn't make sense to me.

Don't get so up in arms yet. Based on everything we've been told (and I'm talking from more than one source, and they all agree) this will not be your only way to book AP rates and no one has said that ALL AP rates will be nonrefundable.

I'm not up in arms, unless you call my banana dance up in arms Thanks for making the new policy more clear to me. I haven't read all of the threads yet, so I just read that it will be non-refundable deposits, etc. I didn't know they were only doing this for on-line bookings. But, 45 day cancel policy is still hard to swallow for me.

I do agree with many that are saying this is just a business decision that WDW has made. That's what they are... a business. And businesses exist to make money, after all. This won't stop me from going to WDW. I can't stop myself. I'm in love with WDW!

 

[RADOPT]

1. Disney can easily fix this problem by requiring an ADULT AP to be presented at check-in. There would be a few folks that were checking in late at night and could not buy or activate their pass until the next day...fine, but you must apply your active AP to your paperwork the next day or you would be charged RACK RATE for your entire stay at check-out. Just make a simple rule and enforce it!

We went for the first time in 2001 and had to show our ap. We only had the voucher when we arrived and showed that but she told us to keep the room rate we had, we had to come back with the actual AP or pay rack. I did not realize that some were not showing their's or the CMs were not requesting it. They asked for our AP in all 3 resorts we stayed at that year and at checkin the following time.

I hope that they accept the vouchers for the best rate but I don't know if we're going to bother if they keep the non-refundable deposit part.

 

[freakylick]

You can still book the old way, you just won't get the best deal.

So you are saying that I can still use the old method (under which there will almost certainly be less availability) and if I am lucky enough to still be able to get a room, I will have to pay more under this system. Wow, I feel so much better. I love paying more!!!

As to checking ID's at the desk, sure they should do that, but it is not always going to happen. Someone is always going to find a new CM that buckles under the pressure of an irate guest. This way Disney completely eliminates that scene.

So the incompetence of those employee's and the organization penalizes the loyal customer?!? There's a marketing campaign!!!

As to the loyal customer ...businesses need to reward the loyal customer if it is necessary to thier business success.

Change that "if" to "because" and then you have an accurate statement.

Many of these forums forget that ...there are millions that never read a forum such as this that visit Disney and pay rack rate. They may actually love this new program.

And if those "millions" are now going to get the "best rate program", I suppose that my chances of getting a good AP discount are slim to none (and slim left town).

You don't understand how it's not personal?!...Sure they aren't trying to attack me personally, but their decisions affect my vacation and my wallet..there is nothing impersonal about that (unless of course, you are wealthy thus don't really care about a couple of hundred dollars).

Hopefully these "kinks" get worked out and discounts end up being the same as they would have been if the old system was still in place...but I understand business and if you already have rooms filled, there is less incentive to offer good discounts. Think about that exec meeting:

Exec 1- "Well the next regular season is soon to be here and we already have 90% of our discounted rooms filled...I suppose we can just give a 5% discount to fulfill our 'obligation'."
Exec 2-"Oh come on...Just give 'em a 45% discount. They are loyal customers, they deserve it."
Exec 1-"But sir, that will cost us over $1 million."
Exec 2-"Really?! Ah, what the heck, give it to 'em anyway...we don't need the money."


We'd need a lot of pixie dust to get that to happen.

 

[lllovell]

Just a little note...

We checked into POFQ at the end of May and had to show our AP at some point before the end of our trip or we would have to pay rack rates (so I was told by the CM checking me in). I went ahead and sent hubby to the car to get our APs (just wasn't thinking when I went in) because I didn't want to risk NOT going back and then getting a big whopper charge.

This was the first time I had actually been asked for my AP upon checkin.

 

[Gary M]

Over the last few years we have had AP room discounts over 20 times and have never been asked to show our APs. I have always had APs available. On a couple of occasions I asked if they wanted to see the AP and they said no.

I read on these boards last year that a DISer got 4 rooms with the AP room only discount, with one AP. That's CROs fault, not the guest.

 

[Sammie]

So you are saying that I can still use the old method (under which there will almost certainly be less availability) and if I am lucky enough to still be able to get a room, I will have to pay more under this system. Wow, I feel so much better. I love paying more!!!




So the incompetence of those employee's and the organization penalizes the loyal customer?!? There's a marketing campaign!!!



Change that "if" to "because" and then you have an accurate statement.



And if those "millions" are now going to get the "best rate program", I suppose that my chances of getting a good AP discount are slim to none (and slim left town).

You don't understand how it's not personal?!...Sure they aren't trying to attack me personally, but their decisions affect my vacation and my wallet..there is nothing impersonal about that (unless of course, you are wealthy thus don't really care about a couple of hundred dollars).

Hopefully these "kinks" get worked out and discounts end up being the same as they would have been if the old system was still in place...but I understand business and if you already have rooms filled, there is less incentive to offer good discounts. Think about that exec meeting:

Exec 1- "Well the next regular season is soon to be here and we already have 90% of our discounted rooms filled...I suppose we can just give a 5% discount to fulfill our 'obligation'."
Exec 2-"Oh come on...Just give 'em a 45% discount. They are loyal customers, they deserve it."
Exec 1-"But sir, that will cost us over $1 million."
Exec 2-"Really?! Ah, what the heck, give it to 'em anyway...we don't need the money."


We'd need a lot of pixie dust to get that to happen.

I am not saying saving money is not personal for some. But if Disney can fill rooms without discounting them, or not discounting them to the masses, why should they. I understand your wanting them to, I don't understand why some think they should have to.

Disney used to not discount any rooms except at certain times of the year when bookings were slow. Then they offered a discount to AP holders and Florida residents. This was not a year round process. Many were last minute offers.

The availabilty of so many discounts and so many different kinds only came about to fill empty rooms after 9-11. Bookings are way up this year for Disney. If they are then there is no reason to discount them.

There are many people willing to pay rack rate. There are many AP holders that are willing to book rack rate and use a program that if a discount becomes available they will get it.

When I book my room at Disney I know on the day I book it what I am going to afford. That is not going to change. If later on I get a discount on that room, then that is great. If not I am ok with it too.

In some business it is necessary to reward the loyal customer. In some the product sells itself and a reward program is not necessary. Some companies never discount their product.

If Disney can keep their resorts filled with first time guests or repeat guests willing to pay rack, why should they offer a discount to a repeat customer. I don't see your reasoning. If bookings are low, discounts will be offered to fill rooms.

 

[Sammie]

Gary,

You raised the question about the AP holders that have the new package being first in line for the codes....

Well...who is going to monitor and check on this??? If they tell you there is no availabilty for your dates, for your resort and room view, how do you know it's true??? I guess because they would never lie??????
Why should they give the discount to someone who has ALREADY PAID A NON REFUNDABLE desposit and tell someone who is just calling up with a newspaper code, "Sorry". They would for sure lose THAT customer, who was just calling because of the discounts and may not go otherwise or may stay offsite OR may downgrade.

Because even if they would cheat you, legally they can't. If you truly believe they are going to scam you, why would you even want to vacation there.

 

[MNSusan]

I'm betting that the discounts for those willing to take the risk of a non refundable deposit are going to be better that the regular AP rate. We've had two reservations for November (split stay) for months now. Our airline tickets are non refundable and I'm willing to take the risk there, so the first night's deposit doesn't feel all that different to me. (One of these times we're going to get caught without trip insurance, but that's another issue.)

We've never booked multiple rooms and then waited to see what the rates are. We book the best room we can afford at rack rate and hope we get a nice discount. Its always worked. We've always had a discount and always felt grateful for it.

We did book a garden view room at the GF, hoping that when the rates came out, we'd be able to upgrade to lagoon view. Likewise, we booked a standard room at BWI hoping we could upgrade to water view. Would that be considered a change to the reservation and get hit with the $50 charge?

 

[srfrgrl07]

So the incompetence of those employee's and the organization penalizes the loyal customer?!? There's a marketing campaign!!!

it is not incompetence, it is the desire to not be screamed at in the face by someone who is loud and obnoxious. we've all seen it happen in numerous environments, outside of wdw. and it's not a penalty by any means, you can still book discounts by other means. remember, discounts for ap holders are never guaranteed.

And if those "millions" are now going to get the "best rate program", I suppose that my chances of getting a good AP discount are slim to none (and slim left town).

and you should get precedence over them because...?

You don't understand how it's not personal?!...Sure they aren't trying to attack me personally, but their decisions affect my vacation and my wallet..there is nothing impersonal about that (unless of course, you are wealthy thus don't really care about a couple of hundred dollars).

and they are thinking with their wallets, just like you. although they are still offering the old discounts as well, which you probably wouldn't consider if you were them.

Hopefully these "kinks" get worked out and discounts end up being the same as they would have been if the old system was still in place...but I understand business and if you already have rooms filled, there is less incentive to offer good discounts.

I think the discounts are going to be greater for those that book with this program, but other discounts will still be available. It's like the AP holder that cannot find AP rates but does book AAA rates. Something is better than nothing. Keep in mind that there are probably alot more AP holders now than there ever were, so less rooms to go around over all. It's as they say, the early bird gets the worm!

 

[have2getaway]

Just curious, but what is the AP rate for value hotels? Moderate? Luxury?