Anyone else think enough is enough... ?

[Disneypro1]

So we are dying from them being open, then. But you're ok with that up to a certain percent.

Of course. Folks were dying of the flu. Any other communicable disease. Accidents. Etc. life is not without risk. We cannot stay closed much longer. A year ago. You risk death by the flu going out. But you did. Over 60k died of the common flu. But that didn’t stop you. Or me or anyone else from living their lives.
Over 99% that gets this will survive this. And over half have no symptoms at all. It’s not a death sentence.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

A couple points, haven’t read all the comments.
First, dead, hospitalized, sick, and scared people don’t spend money.
Second, your friend is risking losing it all anyway if they defy a state mandate to be closed and they open it anyway.
Third, I hope if you are prepared to go out and fight, you are also will to stay home and not get medical care if you getting, leaving the medical for the people who stayed home and got critically ill anyway.

 

[RamblingMad]

So we are dying from them being open, then. But you're ok with that up to a certain percent.

It’s death versus excess capitalism. I prefer life. I don’t need more stuff.

 

[pryncess527]

Those of you saying "keep it shut down", do you mean indefinitely? Just until there's a vaccine (so summer of 2021)? Don't tell me "herd immunity", because that would be years.

no, I don’t think that’s what (almost) anyone is saying. But until the end of May may be necessary. Large events like Disney World and sports may not be able to open until the end of summer.

i’m planning refundable trips for the end of June and the middle of July that im optimistic Ill be able to take. We’ll see.

The doom and gloom about the economy not being able to sustain this forever seems like a strawman argument because of course this cant be sustainable forever. We all know this is unsustainable. But two weeks into the shut down is not the time to start turning back. Some states just shut down!!! Those that shut down first seeing an impact. This is working. We are building up medical supplies. Just have to hold out a month or two.

As for the difficulty for unemployed & small businesses, well that’s with the recovery package was for. They’re not gonna survive if the customers are impacted by the virus either. If the recovery package isn’t working quickly enough, then pressure needs to be put on the government to help. But helping doesn’t mean ignoring the sniper.

 

[sam_gordon]

Till the curve has been flattened. Till we have useable treatments. Till we have antibody testing. Any of those. All of those. I predict functionally, through summer. I know I won't be going out to do much of anything, lifting of closures or not, until some of the above occurs.

So you're fine waiting until 2021 to open anything back up. Got it.

 

[sam_gordon]

no, I don’t think that’s what (almost) anyone is saying. But until the end of May may be necessary. Large events like Disney World and sports may not be able to open until the end of summer.

i’m planning refundable trips for the end of June and the middle of July that im optimistic Ill be able to take. We’ll see.

The doom and gloom about the economy not being able to sustain this forever seems like a strawman argument because of course this cant be sustainable forever. We all know this is unsustainable. But two weeks into the shut down is not the time to start turning back. Some states just shut down!!! Those that shut down first seeing an impact. This is working. We are building up medical supplies. Just have to hold out a month or two.

As for the difficulty for unemployed & small businesses, well that’s with the recovery package was for. They’re not gonna survive if the customers are impacted by the virus either. If the recovery package isn’t working quickly enough, then pressure needs to be put on the government to help. But helping doesn’t mean ignoring the sniper.

I totally agree it's not time to reopen everything. But many are implying (whether intentionally or not) that the shut down take priority, regardless of the time frame. Some of us are saying "only for so long". Personally I think that's June 1, and that doesn't even need to be a full opening.

Vaccine... 12-18 months
Herd Immunity... YEARS (unless you open things back up).

So I want to know, do you have a limit on how long is too long? If they don't open things back up until August? January?

 

[mnrose]

So you're fine waiting until 2021 to open anything back up. Got it.

Funny, I don't remember typing 2021. I specifically DID NOT say "wait for vaccine." Nope. I said "curve flattened" (some signs that may already be happening in my state...because we hopped on it hard and fast, duh). Once that's flattened, our hospitals have a reasonable chance of treating people as they become ill. Useable treatments (lots of promising things currently being investigated, which could mean a break that "works" as early as the next couple of months). Antibody testing....both Mayo and the U of M are very close, if not already there on this. Takes a couple of months to ramp that up and then people can "know" whether the disease threatens them or not which would be a great way to get the economy moving. So, I'm not sure where you get 2021 from any of that. And, again, if we do it prematurely, opening the economy will backfire as the only businesses that will boom are funeral homes.

 

[mjkacmom]

Of course. Folks were dying of the flu. Any other communicable disease. Accidents. Etc. life is not without risk. We cannot stay closed much longer. A year ago. You risk death by the flu going out. But you did. Over 60k died of the common flu. But that didn’t stop you. Or me or anyone else from living their lives.
Over 99% that gets this will survive this. And over half have no symptoms at all. It’s not a death sentence.

So what is your opinion on this? Go back to normal and instead of NYC it’s the whole world.
https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1741938/

 

[KayKayJS]

Bit see that’s not accurate. There is so many business STILL open. Big grocery stores. Little grocery stores. Pharmacies. Tire stores. Car parts stores. Car mechanic and sales. Etc. so many places still considered essential. Homes are still being built. Landscaping being done. Yard mowing business. So why just punish the small shop s or so that’s not considered essential. We all aren’t dying from the essential ones being open.... any business is essential. Any

How is what I said not accurate... I'd always rather not be dead.

My point being the more thing are open (currently) the more infections, the more deaths. This is in reference to those saying we should just open everything back up.

If I had to choose between my job/business/ whatever... and a pretty large chance of dying (even 2-3% is way more than my average chance of dying from everything else combined over a 5 year period-ps://knowyourchances.cancer.gov), I'd always choose to not risk dying.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Flu AND car accidents? How are these analogies still a thing?

 

[Disneypro1]

There are a lot of people in this country with diabetes.

That we agree on..

 

[rigs32]

So you're fine waiting until 2021 to open anything back up. Got it.

The PP said "any of those". By saying they meant 2021, you're being obtuse.

 

[sam_gordon]

Funny, I don't remember typing 2021. I specifically DID NOT say "wait for vaccine." Nope. I said "curve flattened" (some signs that may already be happening in my state...because we hopped on it hard and fast, duh). Once that's flattened, our hospitals have a reasonable chance of treating people as they become ill. Useable treatments (lots of promising things currently being investigated, which could mean a break that "works" as early as the next couple of months). Antibody testing....both Mayo and the U of M are very close, if not already there on this. Takes a couple of months to ramp that up and then people can "know" whether the disease threatens them or not which would be a great way to get the economy moving. So, I'm not sure where you get 2021 from any of that. And, again, if we do it prematurely, opening the economy will backfire as the only businesses that will boom are funeral homes.

So if the curve doesn't flatten until August, you're fine keeping things locked down. What if it's not until December? Still OK? Yes, it might flatten in May and we're back to normal (or near normal) in June. But what if we're not? Is there any time frame that you're willing to say is "too long"? Sounds like a simple question.

 

[rigs32]

Flu AND car accidents? How are these analogies still a thing?

Because they help support the argument that we should go back to business as usual.

 

[Disneypro1]

Flu AND car accidents? How are these analogies still a thing?

Taking about numbers. Etc

 

[SaintsManiac]

That we agree on..

Lol it’s not something to “agree on.” It’s fact.

 

[cabanafrau]

And people die driving to work everyday also. Or hurt in industrial accidents. I mean the list goes on for anything you want to use it for.
I’m a firefighter medic. I could die tomorrow. But i still have to work to feed the kids. And have the things we want.
To have the things in life I want. I take that risk.

Do you think it's pointless to install safety equipment on vehicles to attempt to make them as safe as reasonably possible and that more people survive and/or are less gravely injured in the event of an accident? Should everyone elect to just give up on using turning indicators because some people disregard them and accidents are still caused by that inattention? Would you want the opportunity to buy a vehicle that was unaffordable to you if built with safety equipment and more crash survivable passenger cabin if you could get it cheaper without the safety equipment and the passenger cabin were more likely to be dangerously intruded in a crash?

Would you accept the job operating an industrial press for $25 an hour + benefits that had no safety provisions like light curtains hooked to automatic shutoffs or would you choose to be more cautious and take the job operating the press with light curtains and automatic shutoff at $20 an hour + benefits? Both routinely require a grueling schedule of 10 hour shifts, six days per week.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Taking about numbers. Etc

It’s a straw man and you know it.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Because they help support the argument that we should go back to business as usual.

Not really. It only makes the person using them look absurd.

 

[sam_gordon]

The PP said "any of those". By saying they meant 2021, you're being obtuse.

There you go. That's me. Go ahead and read my follow response that I posted while you were typing. Feel free to answer.