Anyone crossed the border with a 'smudge' on their record?

[SerinaEmily]

I'm in a bit of a pickle ..

My parents just sprung on us that they are taking us to Disney in 6 months .. yay .. except my common-law husband has something on his record and I'm afraid of what's going to happen if we try to cross the border so we can fly out of Buffalo.

Long story short .. he was married to a witch .. they got into a fight one day and she didn't like that he wouldn't do what she wanted so she called the cops which she freely admits now in her witchy way was just to punish him and get back at him cause she was mad.

Anyway he was charged with uttering threats and when it came time for court he was trying to reconcile with her and they both agreed the 'best' thing to do would be to just plead guilty to the charge so that she wouldn't have to go through with the trial and argue in court when they were trying to make things work .. surprisingly enough it didn't work but whatever.

So he had a guilty plea to a charge for uttering threats from 2 years ago.

I have no idea what is considered 'bad' at the border and what will happen and if they'll scan all of our ID's or if there's a chance we could just get waved through .. and if we do get called in and have to explain the situation if there is any chance that they would let us go since its for a family vacation etc. He's never tried to cross before and never been told not to so he isn't flagged at the border.

We talked to a lawyer and he said its too late to get a waiver cause it won't be back in time and that our best bet is to just make a go of it and hope for the best .. best case we cross and he comes I guess, worse we turn around go home and I cross the next day with my family.

Anyone know anything about what our chances are?

 

[HappieMommie]

Oy, I am not sure. I do have to say - your kids are soooo adorable! Good luck!

 

[michelle1]

My DH had something on his record from when he was in his late teens and has crossed the Buffalo and Detroit border many times (at least 100 since then) without it ever coming up so I'm sure everything will be fine. Your DH can apply to have that removed from his record...my Dh's has since been removed but it's a long process. Good luck with everything.

 

[nosy parker]

Did he receive a discharge (conditional or otherwise) for this? If this was only two years ago, then I assume he has not requested a pardon from the National Parole Board as that is only possible after three years for a summary conviction and five years for an indictable offense. A discharge is automatically pardoned after the required period.

So, as soon as they process his ID this will come up, as all info between Canada and the U.S. is shared in this regard. Any criminal offense is grounds for denying his entry into the US. Since 9/11 I would say that there is little liklihood of getting in if you have any kind of record. I don't know if they actually look into the details of the incident, they would just see it as "uttering threats" without the context of this particular situation. I would not risk it.

Please REALLY look into the legal aspects of this because trying to 'squeak by' now could actually be more detrimental to his future ability to get into the US. My understanding (and I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not positive about this) is that although information is shared between Canada and the U.S, the U.S agency DOES NOT get this information until they enter his name/i.d. and then the info gets transmitted to their system. In other words the U.S gov't doesn't know about his record until they punch in his name. But once they get that info - it remains there forever! So, if he plans on obtaining a pardon for this crime in the future this is very important. If a pardon is granted that would effectively seal and erase this information from all accessible records in Canada. So if the U.S. punched in his name after that, there would be nothing there to see. However, if they had already received this info from when you try to get in for your trip, it won't matter that the info is no longer in the Canadian system because they will already have it. A pardon does not erase your record from the U.S database if they already have it.

As I said, I'm not even sure about the info I'm giving you, so I would really advise you to seek legal assistance from a lawyer who specializes in this area. I don't think the average family law lawyer would know these kinds of details.

Check the following websites for more info:

http://www.pardons.org/content.phtml?page=08

http://pardonservicescanada.com/

This may be disappointing info for your upcoming trip, but one trip (even to Disney) isn't worth the risk of messing things up for ALL future U.S. travel.

Hope this helps.

 

[fivebyfive]

So, as soon as they process his ID this will come up, as all info between Canada and the U.S. is shared in this regard. Any criminal offense is grounds for denying his entry into the US. Since 9/11 I would say that there is little liklihood of getting in if you have any kind of record.

Exactly!

I don't know if they actually look into the details of the incident, they would just see it as "uttering threats" without the context of this particular situation. I would not risk it.

Yes they DO see some of the details and will even 'test' you on it. DO NOT lie, as doing so will cost you more than a lousy denied entry to see the Mouse...

If it helps; records of assult are allowed. Assult with a deadly weapon...not so much.

To me, the charge of 'uttering threats' falls MUCH lesser of a crime than 'assult', but hey that's just me. Good luck!

 

[SerinaEmily]

Thank you for the information ..

See I did talk to an immigration lawyer last week about this because we wanted to get a waiver to allow his temporary access. But it takes over 6 months to get it and we don't have the time since it was just sprung on us ..

What he did explain though is that as long as he hasnt attempted to cross before and been flagged that if they see it and don't let him in and flag him this time then at that point he can never try to enter again before getting a waiver or pardon or else then he'll have committed a crime. The first time if they don't let him cross will just be a warning and we'd play the dumb 'oh really?' Canadians.

Once he eventually does get pardoned and THEN we cross, even if its in their system that he has a record, as long as he can produce his pardon and be all like 'yes I know sir, you told me last time I can't get in without a pardon so here I got it' and he shows he's playing by the rules then even though he might have to go in and explain it he should still be able to cross, as long as he doesn't try a second time to cross before the pardon is granted, then he'd be permanently marked as a troublemaker.


I'm just really curious how the border works and I don't want to 'test' it and risk his one and only free pass so to speak to try to cross. I don't know if they scan/check everyone and if they would pull him in over uttering threats and refuse a vacation with children over it.

We're prepared that he might not go .. we're going to try to cross the day before the rest of the family so if we have to turn around and bring him home we can .. and the kids won't have a clue what we are doing anyway .. I'm hoping if it comes down to someones descrecion that the wife and kids in the hall waiting to go on the surprise trip to Disney might sway someone to let him cross.

 

[nosy parker]

I forgot to mention that it is actually illegal to try to enter the U.S with a criminal record. You would need the appropriate documentation to do so, such as a waiver, which as you said is a rather lengthy process and too late for your trip.

 

[SerinaEmily]

and what I'm also told is the US doesn't have a 'uttering threats' crime .. so that may work in our favor too that its not even enough of a crime that they consider it a crime .. so you're saying that people with assaults on their records can cross? I wasn't sure if its ALL crimes no matter what or if there are just certain ones that are no way crimes or if it really is all up to whoever you meet up with that day.

 

[nosy parker]

Thank you for the information ..

See I did talk to an immigration lawyer last week about this because we wanted to get a waiver to allow his temporary access. But it takes over 6 months to get it and we don't have the time since it was just sprung on us ..

What he did explain though is that as long as he hasnt attempted to cross before and been flagged that if they see it and don't let him in and flag him this time then at that point he can never try to enter again before getting a waiver or pardon or else then he'll have committed a crime. The first time if they don't let him cross will just be a warning and we'd play the dumb 'oh really?' Canadians.

Once he eventually does get pardoned and THEN we cross, even if its in their system that he has a record, as long as he can produce his pardon and be all like 'yes I know sir, you told me last time I can't get in without a pardon so here I got it' and he shows he's playing by the rules then even though he might have to go in and explain it he should still be able to cross, as long as he doesn't try a second time to cross before the pardon is granted, then he'd be permanently marked as a troublemaker.


I'm just really curious how the border works and I don't want to 'test' it and risk his one and only free pass so to speak to try to cross. I don't know if they scan/check everyone and if they would pull him in over uttering threats and refuse a vacation with children over it.

We're prepared that he might not go .. we're going to try to cross the day before the rest of the family so if we have to turn around and bring him home we can .. and the kids won't have a clue what we are doing anyway .. I'm hoping if it comes down to someones descrecion that the wife and kids in the hall waiting to go on the surprise trip to Disney might sway someone to let him cross.

Well, I'm not sure, but I think that a pardon does not guarantee entry into the U.S. They may be able to use discretion at that point, but a waiver is what would still be necessary to guarantee that you get in. Maybe a pardon makes getting a waiver easier, I don't know. I would really confirm that if I were you. According to the National Parole Board website, a pardon doesn't guarantee entry into any country. Here's the link:

http://www.npb-cnlc.gc.ca/infocntr/factsh/pardon.htm

Personally, I would do everything necessary so that my criminal record would NOT ever get into the U.S. system. Once it's there you can't have it removed. I think that would always create a problem and I would avoid that happening at all costs. If it means a couple of extra years waiting time, so be it. But that's just me. Even if I'm incorrect and the pardon would allow easier access to the U.S. right now, I still wouldn't risk it. Who knows if the rules or laws will change in the future? The U.S. has become quite rigorous and in my opinion 'over the top' with their security measures. Who knows if in the future it will become harder to get in. We used to cross with a simple questioning and a quick glance at our i.d. but now they always scan the passports when we cross.

I think you need to weigh how much you're willing to allow this to affect your future U.S entry if he does get caught and flagged. And I don't just mean for vacations. What about family/kids events like possibly hockey tournaments across the border, or kids going to Harvard and you want to visit (just examples)? You just never know what may come up as your kids get older and travel to the U.S. may be desired.

Anyway, I'm not trying to put a damper on your plans. I just really want you to be as informed as possible so that you make the right choice for your family and don't have regrets about it later.

 

[crash2000]

I think he'll be just fine...

you should contact some us departments and ask them.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/indamiss_can_info.xml

since they allow crimes of assualt, his threating shouldn't be an issue.

 

[yanjan]

i have the exact same thing on my record. happened in 96.

got myself a passport. was question about it at the border about 3 years ago. then showed my passport and no problem.

i didnt lie or try to cover it. like previously posted dont try to.

try to get a pardon soonest it cost about 500$ and about 8 months to get it, im in the process right now.

nick

 

[F4disneyfan]

My dad has a small blemish on his record and tried to cross over this weekend for a golf getaway with some friends needless to say I had to go pick him up in Sarnia as they wouldn't allow him entry. He has gone to a lawyer today to get a pardon hopefully it all goes well and he doesn't have to also get the waiver which will be about 500+ dollars.

 

[nosy parker]

My dad has a small blemish on his record and tried to cross over this weekend for a golf getaway with some friends needless to say I had to go pick him up in Sarnia as they wouldn't allow him entry. He has gone to a lawyer today to get a pardon hopefully it all goes well and he doesn't have to also get the waiver which will be about 500+ dollars.

Sorry to hear that. And that was my point to the OP. Ya just never know. So why risk it?

And now that your dad has tried to enter the U.S., they have his criminal record in their system. It will never be removed. If he had obtained his pardon prior to entering, the U.S. would never have been able to get the info about his record because it would no longer have been in the Canadian system for them to access. That is assuming that the offence was committed after 1992 (offenses prior to 1992 don't automatically get wiped from the Canadian records. You need to make a special request to have them removed after obtaining the pardon). Anyway, now even with a pardon a waiver may still be required. See the links in my above posts and crash2000's post.

I hope it all works out well for your dad.

 

[F4disneyfan]

Sorry to hear that. And that was my point to the OP. Ya just never know. So why risk it?

And now that your dad has tried to enter the U.S., they have his criminal record in their system. It will never be removed. If he had obtained his pardon prior to entering, the U.S. would never have been able to get the info about his record because it would no longer have been in the Canadian system for them to access. That is assuming that the offence was committed after 1992 (offenses prior to 1992 don't automatically get wiped from the Canadian records. You need to make a special request to have them removed after obtaining the pardon). Anyway, now even with a pardon a waiver may still be required. See the links in my above posts and crash2000's post.

I hope it all works out well for your dad.

Well he went to see his lawyer today to start the paperwork and they reccomended that he get the waiver since he had now been stopped at the border during entry. His was a DUI from back in the early 80's and it was still listed so they have to also petition the US side to have it removed from their system and they can choose not to if they wish. All told it could cost him upwards of 2 grand to have this all done and it still may not allow him into the US.

To the OP I wouldn't even risk trying to cross with something on your record just to be safe. I would make sure to start teh proceedings now to get it removed and save the headaches later. No matter how small something is you may think it will just cause more problems than it is worth if you don't get it fixed now.

 

[Lisa Anne Colling]

It's hit and miss. I know people whom have crossed many many many times and then boom, they got that one crossing guard that said no way and turned them back. This has happened to 2 people I know. One of which is 50 plus and had a minor blemish on his record as a very young adult. He lives in a border town and has crossed many times and was turned away just a few years ago. I don't think tighter security had anything to do with it because it happened to another friend prior 9/11. Again with a very minor blemish and nothing since. So I guess it is the luck of the draw.

 

[sean-1966]

I had a bit of a misspent youth, it was fun though. The most I've ever been asked is if I have been arrested. I was honest and said yes and explained for what and when. Never had a problem. Once they run my passport it's all good. I'm pretty sure you won't have a problem.

 

[OntFamily]

From my understanding, it's like everything crossing the border. There is the rule, but border guards do have some discretion.

I have a friend in similar circumstances (criminal record - assault). He has crossed the border many times, but on one trip (enroute to BUF to catch a flight to Orlando) the border guard denied him entry. He had to apply for a waiver to enter the country.

and what I'm also told is the US doesn't have a 'uttering threats' crime .. so that may work in our favor too that its not even enough of a crime that they consider it a crime .. so you're saying that people with assaults on their records can cross? I wasn't sure if its ALL crimes no matter what or if there are just certain ones that are no way crimes or if it really is all up to whoever you meet up with that day.

I've been told it doesn't matter the crime, it's the criminal record. There's been instances the other way (people denied entry into Canada) due to an American minor charge, for which such charge does not exist in Canada.
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/270460

I'm just really curious how the border works and I don't want to 'test' it and risk his one and only free pass so to speak to try to cross. I don't know if they scan/check everyone and if they would pull him in over uttering threats and refuse a vacation with children over it.

EVERYONE is ID checked. At one time, the ID checks were hit and miss, but no one gets in without a check. My friend (referred to above) was refused entry on his way to a Disney vacation, with his wife and children in his vehicle. Understandably, the US border guards did not care about the circumstance (looking at it from their point of view).

 

[Kyen]

Years ago when the CNE had GOOD free concerts at the bandshell they had kinda the same problem with the Village People! The 'cop' had a rap sheet and was flagged when he tried to cross. After filling in some paper work and answering some questions he was able to enter the country. So if they let in the Village People then I think they will let your husband in.

 

[crash2000]

its says right at the us customes and border control website

http://www.cbp.gov/

it states "At this time, driving under the influence, breaking and entering, disorderly conduct and simple assault are not considered crimes that make a person inadmissible to the U.S. "


http://help.cbp.gov/cgi-bin/customs...F90ZXh0PWRlbmllZCBlbnRyeQ**&p_li=&p_topview=1

so maybe "nosy" should check her info at the source.

lets see i can assault someone, and gain entry but not threaten someone? come on get real...

 

[crash2000]

Sorry to hear that. And that was my point to the OP. Ya just never know. So why risk it?

And now that your dad has tried to enter the U.S., they have his criminal record in their system. It will never be removed. If he had obtained his pardon prior to entering, the U.S. would never have been able to get the info about his record because it would no longer have been in the Canadian system for them to access.
I hope it all works out well for your dad.

your post doesn't make sense, if they could original see his offence, then obviously its in there system from the start.