Another view on FP+

[sonofanarchy]

One of the parts about FP+ that has been discussed a lot on here is how the DIS makes up such a small percentage of WDW visitors. I'm not sure of the number of members here, but on a Facebook page about WDW for grownups, that page has over 300,000 followers. Granted, small percentage by yearly attendance numbers, but given the MK averages 40,000 visitors per day, it's not a bad number.

Anyways, they recently posted a question asking for people's thoughts about Magic Bands and FP+. The Magic Bands opinion is split, but most don't seem to have too much of a problem with it. However, the majority of posts so far have said the same thing - Fastpass+ is terrible. And of those responses, it's pretty much all the same reasons that we know about here:

-3 per day is a joke
-Having to use them all in 1 park is a joke
-Having to book ride times so far in advance is kind of silly

I understand the complexity (or maybe I don't) of rolling this new system out on such a large scale, and I understand Disney is doing surveys with guests, but seriously, what is taking so long to make some changes that are DESPERATELY needed? Of course there are logistics to think about how any changes will affect the parks, but how can it get much worse than it is now? Is it Disney's ego getting in the way? Are they incapable of admitting that they made a HUGE mistake and refuse to take fast enough action, simply to save face (Stitch's Great Escape anyone)?

I just don't understand. I went for years using FP and never encountered issues. My guess is, most others didn't either. At least, I don't seem to recall seeing thread after thread complaining about it. Why is it they can't continue to use the Magic Bands but just go back to the original way of using Fastpass, but use the bands instead of paper tickets?

 

[magicbob]

But then TSMM FPs would run out before the late arrivers make it to DHS.

 

[Disneyhabs]

One of the parts about FP+ that has been discussed a lot on here is how the DIS makes up such a small percentage of WDW visitors. I'm not sure of the number of members here, but on a Facebook page about WDW for grownups, that page has over 300,000 followers. Granted, small percentage by yearly attendance numbers, but given the MK averages 40,000 visitors per day, it's not a bad number.

Anyways, they recently posted a question asking for people's thoughts about Magic Bands and FP+. The Magic Bands opinion is split, but most don't seem to have too much of a problem with it. However, the majority of posts so far have said the same thing - Fastpass+ is terrible. And of those responses, it's pretty much all the same reasons that we know about here:

-3 per day is a joke
-Having to use them all in 1 park is a joke
-Having to book ride times so far in advance is kind of silly

I understand the complexity (or maybe I don't) of rolling this new system out on such a large scale, and I understand Disney is doing surveys with guests, but seriously, what is taking so long to make some changes that are DESPERATELY needed? Of course there are logistics to think about how any changes will affect the parks, but how can it get much worse than it is now? Is it Disney's ego getting in the way? Are they incapable of admitting that they made a HUGE mistake and refuse to take fast enough action, simply to save face (Stitch's Great Escape anyone)?

I just don't understand. I went for years using FP and never encountered issues. My guess is, most others didn't either. At least, I don't seem to recall seeing thread after thread complaining about it. Why is it they can't continue to use the Magic Bands but just go back to the original way of using Fastpass, but use the bands instead of paper tickets?

There were many threads about how you could only have one fast pass at a time and the hours were so far out from when you got them etc. Much like what you see regarding FP+.

 

[sonofanarchy]

There were many threads about how you could only have one fast pass at a time and the hours were so far out from when you got them etc. Much like what you see regarding FP+.

I don't remember them at all.

 

[morethananyonex]

So you're asking why they can't go back to the old way?

Easy. They want people to feel like they are locked into their Disney schedules so they can spend more time and money in the parks. The old way didn't do that.

An ideal system for guests would probably look like a merge of the 2 systems. It would have much shorter booking windows (under a week), less prebooked rides period, and more day of bookings that could be done from any device or kiosk anywhere you are. Unfortunately, ideal for guests doesn't mean ideal for Disney. People can spin things all they want, but the reason they won't go back is simple. They think the new way makes them more money, and they've invested too much to turn back now.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

One of the parts about FP+ that has been discussed a lot on here is how the DIS makes up such a small percentage of WDW visitors. I'm not sure of the number of members here, but on a Facebook page about WDW for grownups, that page has over 300,000 followers. Granted, small percentage by yearly attendance numbers, but given the MK averages 40,000 visitors per day, it's not a bad number.

Anyways, they recently posted a question asking for people's thoughts about Magic Bands and FP+. The Magic Bands opinion is split, but most don't seem to have too much of a problem with it. However, the majority of posts so far have said the same thing - Fastpass+ is terrible. And of those responses, it's pretty much all the same reasons that we know about here:

-3 per day is a joke
-Having to use them all in 1 park is a joke
-Having to book ride times so far in advance is kind of silly

I understand the complexity (or maybe I don't) of rolling this new system out on such a large scale, and I understand Disney is doing surveys with guests, but seriously, what is taking so long to make some changes that are DESPERATELY needed? Of course there are logistics to think about how any changes will affect the parks, but how can it get much worse than it is now? Is it Disney's ego getting in the way? Are they incapable of admitting that they made a HUGE mistake and refuse to take fast enough action, simply to save face (Stitch's Great Escape anyone)?

I just don't understand. I went for years using FP and never encountered issues. My guess is, most others didn't either. At least, I don't seem to recall seeing thread after thread complaining about it. Why is it they can't continue to use the Magic Bands but just go back to the original way of using Fastpass, but use the bands instead of paper tickets?

~This is still in testing -- so the possibility of Disney making adjustments and tweaking some aspects remain quite high. Disney has gone on record informing park guests to be patient and expect some changes. Hopefully, the changes will be an overall improvement.

~This idealized romanticism of the old fastpass is pure comedy to me. The fact is -- the old fp was a super hot button topic and a heavily challenged and debated topic on Disboards. The old fp threads were *always* locked.

~I'll take FP+ over the legacy fp anyday. I'm an early rope drop commando -- so the pedestrian efforts involved in acquiring a fp did not compliment my commando touring style at all. I utilized a combination Ridemax and Touring Plans and this required a lot of footwork and backpedaling. In the time it takes to walk over to the fp machine pull a fastpass than wait anywhere from 45 minutes to 6 hours for some random return time -- I could ride standby at least twice with mad time to spare.

~I respect that you don't like FP+ but there is plenty of room and time for some improvements, so we'll see. I love FP+ and can't wait for my WDW vacation!

 

[wisblue]

but seriously, what is taking so long to make some changes that are DESPERATELY needed?

How can you say it is taking so long to make changes?

If you take a step back and look at all of the changes that have taken place over the last 6 months, the whole process is moving pretty quickly (at least in my opinion). The FP machines have only been out of all of the parks for a little over 2 months.

With today's announcement that offsite guests with tickets will be able to make FP+ reservations 30 days in advance, one of the last major parts of the transition will be in place soon.

Once that is done, Disney can start to focus on the things like number of FP's, allowing FP in more than one park, etc. I expect that the ability to make FP+ reservations in more than one park will be one of the first things to be added, and the ability to get additional same day FPs should be coming too. The surveys Disney has been taking should give us a clue as to the options they are considering for this. Once most offsite guests are able to make FP+ reservations in advance, the lines at the in park kiosks should be reduced dramatically.

If people are waiting for tiers to be eliminated at Epcot or DHS or for the ability to make more than one advance FP reservation for the same ride, they are probably in for a long wait. The current capacity for the top 2 attractions at those parks mandates these restrictions to ensure that almost everyone can get at least one FP for one of them.

 

[TimothyG]

Disney has disclosed in shareholder meetings that more people are getting Fastpass than ever before. That probably means that a greater percentage of people are now spending less time waiting in line. I would imagine that directly correlates to a larger number of happy guests. Sure, some guests who used to get 8 FPs in a day now only get 3, but there are likely even more guests who finally get a FP and are happier than they used to be.

I also know that Disney runs a calculation each day to see how many attractions guests should be able to ride over a small time period during the day. They extend park hours if you can't reasonably hit that number (not sure what it is, I think 8?). This happens fairly often (in fact, this just happened today). So I don't know if I really buy the argument that a lot of people are making on this forum about not being able to ride everything. I think a lot of people are (justifiably) upset that they finally may have to wait in line for something now.

 

[JimmyV]

So you're asking why they can't go back to the old way?

Easy. They want people to feel like they are locked into their Disney schedules so they can spend more time and money in the parks. The old way didn't do that.

In addition to making people feel "locked in" (which is their PR catch phrase), there is another important feature of FP+ that only gets nibbled around the edges here and hardly ever addressed directly. And that is where the $$$ is. When you ride on the Tomorrowland Speedway (assuming you do), you are riding in a vehicle that has a governor on it. The car could go faster, but Disney doesn't want you to. So too with FP+. It is a governor placed on the visitor to make them go slower and do less each day. Why? So that it will take you 6 or 7 full days to see and do everything in all the parks. Disney knows that it has stiff competition to the North on I-4 and it doesn't want you to go there. They want you to buy a 6 or 7 day pass and make 6 or 7 days of ADRs instead of buying a 4 or 5 day pass and making 4 or 5 days of ADRs. So they devise a system that allows you to think that arriving at a park mid-day is a good thing. And it is if you want to have a leisurely day and do a few things and then come back the next day. But the one thing they do not want you to do is hit all the headline attractions at a break-neck pace so that by the fifth day you are ready to go to Hogwarts. Simple as that.

We like to think that Disney always has our best interests in mind. But that would be naive. Picture yourself sitting in the boardroom when some young computer-savvy, wet behind the ears techno-geek puts on a Power Point presentation showing his/her bosses how Disney can make touring its parks more efficient for guests, allowing them to shave hours off of their current schedules. "So you see ladies and gentleman--with my proposed innovations, guests will become faster, sleeker, more efficient, and will be able to get more done in less time! It will be great!" Know what you would call that employee?? Fired! Just like the guy in Detroit who designs a car that never needs repairs. Or the gal in Akron who designs a tire that lasts forever. Great for the consumer. But those people are soon out of jobs. Disney doesn't want you touring more efficiently. They want you touring less efficiently so that it takes you a full week, (or close to it) to do everything you want to do. And when you leave, you will be telling your kids: "Sorry. Maybe we will make it to Universal Studios next time." That is the goal, and the way they achieve that goal is to put a governor on you.

Disney has disclosed in shareholder meetings that more people are getting Fastpass than ever before. That probably means that a greater percentage of people are now spending less time waiting in line.

Actually, what that means is that the FP return lines are the new SB lines, and the SB lines are the new Single Rider lines. If everyone had a FP, then that would be the equivalent of not having FP as an option.

I think a lot of people are (justifiably) upset that they finally may have to wait in line for something now.

I think this is a fair assessment, as it is essentially another way of saying that fast-paced guests don't like being saddled with a governor.

 

[LisaTC]

Speaking of the FB groups, I actually think it was Disney Food that posted the line for Haunted Mansion was way out to nearly Hall of Presidents! YIPES!

 

[KatieCharlotte]

In addition to making people feel "locked in" (which is their PR catch phrase), there is another important feature of FP+ that only gets nibbled around the edges here and hardly ever addressed directly. And that is where the $$$ is. When you ride on the Tomorrowland Speedway (assuming you do), you are riding in a vehicle that has a governor on it. The car could go faster, but Disney doesn't want you to. So too with FP+. It is a governor placed on the visitor to make them go slower and do less each day. Why? So that it will take you 6 or 7 full days to see and do everything in all the parks. Disney knows that it has stiff competition to the North on I-4 and it doesn't want you to go there. They want you to buy a 6 or 7 day pass and make 6 or 7 days of ADRs instead of buying a 4 or 5 day pass and making 4 or 5 days of ADRs. So they devise a system that allows you to think that arriving at a park mid-day is a good thing. And it is if you want to have a leisurely day and do a few things and then come back the next day. But the one thing they do not want you to do is hit all the headline attractions at a break-neck pace so that by the fifth day you are ready to go to Hogwarts. Simple as that.

We like to think that Disney always has our best interests in mind. But that would be naive. Picture yourself sitting in the boardroom when some young computer-savvy, wet behind the ears techno-geek puts on a Power Point presentation showing his/her bosses how Disney can make touring its parks more efficient for guests, allowing them to shave hours off of their current schedules. "So you see ladies and gentleman--with my proposed innovations, guests will become faster, sleeker, more efficient, and will be able to get more done in less time! It will be great!" Know what you would call that employee?? Fired! Just like the guy in Detroit who designs a car that never needs repairs. Or the gal in Akron who designs a tire that lasts forever. Great for the consumer. But those people are soon out of jobs. Disney doesn't want you touring more efficiently. They want you touring less efficiently so that it takes you a full week, (or close to it) to do everything you want to do. And when you leave, you will be telling your kids: "Sorry. Maybe we will make it to Universal Studios next time." That is the goal, and the way they achieve that goal is to put a governor on you.

Exactly. And when someone comments that FP+ is actually great because it encourages you to slow down and spend less time each day in the parks, I want to That's kind of the whole point, and it's not intended to benefit guests.

 

[MrInfinity]

-3 per day is a joke

This is not a joke. Add up the number of ridings of each ride per day. You'll see they total approximately 3x the typical number of guests. There is nothing funny or arbitrary about this. 3 is the number each gest can get because that is the capacity of the rides. To give more than 3 to some guests would mandate giving less that 3 to others.

-Having to use them all in 1 park is a joke

Not a joke. Even if you could spend 2 in one park and 1 in another, that would mandate tiering across all parks. So like now, say you could choose 1 of TSMM, RR, Soarin, or TT, and then have the other 2 be any of the tier-2's from either park. Wouldn't help you right?

-Having to book ride times so far in advance is kind of silly

Again no joke here, there is no such thing as having to book so far in advance. Any sense of being compelled to do so is self-inflicted. I am now only 30 days out from my trip and am changing them around freely with no restriction on availability. Pretty much every trip report I read says that even doing so the night before sees no trouble in scoring the desired rides, because the system is engineered such that there are enough for each person to have their allotment.

I just don't understand. I went for years using FP and never encountered issues. My guess is, most others didn't either.

Most guests simply did not use FP-. That's why you and I were able to pull 6 in one park. It's that simple.

Why is it they can't continue to use the Magic Bands but just go back to the original way of using Fastpass, but use the bands instead of paper tickets?

Do the math on the number of rides. To give some guests 6 FP slots, you have to give others none. How do you choose. If you can convince half of the guests to accept 0 FP, Disney could guarantee you 6. Short of that, it is 3 for everyone.

Just do the math. The ride capacities and park attendance approximations are all there.

 

[TimothyG]

Actually, what that means is that the FP return lines are the new SB lines, and the SB lines are the new Single Rider lines. If everyone had a FP, then that would be the equivalent of not having FP as an option.

Not quite sure I follow. I know that the FP+ return lines have gotten long because of the new "MagicBand checkin" process, but they haven't changed the number of actual FPs they issue over each time segment. Just the maximum number that an individual can use in one day. I imagine that they will find a way to really speed up the system in the next few months.

 

[mom2rtk]

But then TSMM FPs would run out before the late arrivers make it to DHS.

And that must be avoided at all costs.

 

[magicbob]

I am now only 30 days out from my trip and am changing them around freely with no restriction on availability. Pretty much every trip report I read says that even doing so the night before sees no trouble in scoring the desired rides, because the system is engineered such that there are enough for each person to have their allotment.

Thousands of offsite guests who used to be forced to wait until the day of to make their FP+ reservations will soon have the ability to reserve at the 30 day mark. This will certainly affect availability, with popular rides likely running out before the day of.

 

[mom2rtk]

Thousands of guests who used to be forced to wait until the day of to make their. FP+ reservations will soon have the ability to reserve at the 30 day mark. This will certainly affect availability, with popular rides likely running out before the day of.

And that's why it needed to happen. People have been touting how awesome this all is with only half of the daily attendance using it. We at least need to be able to evaluate with everyone using it.

 

[LisaTC]

Exactly. And when someone comments that FP+ is actually great because it encourages you to slow down and spend less time each day in the parks, I want to That's kind of the whole point, and it's not intended to benefit guests.

In addition to making people feel "locked in" (which is their PR catch phrase), there is another important feature of FP+ that only gets nibbled around the edges here and hardly ever addressed directly. And that is where the $$$ is. When you ride on the Tomorrowland Speedway (assuming you do), you are riding in a vehicle that has a governor on it. The car could go faster, but Disney doesn't want you to. So too with FP+. It is a governor placed on the visitor to make them go slower and do less each day. Why? So that it will take you 6 or 7 full days to see and do everything in all the parks. Disney knows that it has stiff competition to the North on I-4 and it doesn't want you to go there. They want you to buy a 6 or 7 day pass and make 6 or 7 days of ADRs instead of buying a 4 or 5 day pass and making 4 or 5 days of ADRs. So they devise a system that allows you to think that arriving at a park mid-day is a good thing. And it is if you want to have a leisurely day and do a few things and then come back the next day. But the one thing they do not want you to do is hit all the headline attractions at a break-neck pace so that by the fifth day you are ready to go to Hogwarts. Simple as that.

We like to think that Disney always has our best interests in mind. But that would be naive. Picture yourself sitting in the boardroom when some young computer-savvy, wet behind the ears techno-geek puts on a Power Point presentation showing his/her bosses how Disney can make touring its parks more efficient for guests, allowing them to shave hours off of their current schedules. "So you see ladies and gentleman--with my proposed innovations, guests will become faster, sleeker, more efficient, and will be able to get more done in less time! It will be great!" Know what you would call that employee?? Fired! Just like the guy in Detroit who designs a car that never needs repairs. Or the gal in Akron who designs a tire that lasts forever. Great for the consumer. But those people are soon out of jobs. Disney doesn't want you touring more efficiently. They want you touring less efficiently so that it takes you a full week, (or close to it) to do everything you want to do. And when you leave, you will be telling your kids: "Sorry. Maybe we will make it to Universal Studios next time." That is the goal, and the way they achieve that goal is to put a governor on you.


Actually, what that means is that the FP return lines are the new SB lines, and the SB lines are the new Single Rider lines. If everyone had a FP, then that would be the equivalent of not having FP as an option.


I think this is a fair assessment, as it is essentially another way of saying that fast-paced guests don't like being saddled with a governor.

This is not a joke. Add up the number of ridings of each ride per day. You'll see they total approximately 3x the typical number of guests. There is nothing funny or arbitrary about this. 3 is the number each gest can get because that is the capacity of the rides. To give more than 3 to some guests would mandate giving less that 3 to others.



Not a joke. Even if you could spend 2 in one park and 1 in another, that would mandate tiering across all parks. So like now, say you could choose 1 of TSMM, RR, Soarin, or TT, and then have the other 2 be any of the tier-2's from either park. Wouldn't help you right?



Again no joke here, there is no such thing as having to book so far in advance. Any sense of being compelled to do so is self-inflicted. I am now only 30 days out from my trip and am changing them around freely with no restriction on availability. Pretty much every trip report I read says that even doing so the night before sees no trouble in scoring the desired rides, because the system is engineered such that there are enough for each person to have their allotment.



Most guests simply did not use FP-. That's why you and I were able to pull 6 in one park. It's that simple.



Do the math on the number of rides. To give some guests 6 FP slots, you have to give others none. How do you choose. If you can convince half of the guests to accept 0 FP, Disney could guarantee you 6. Short of that, it is 3 for everyone.

Just do the math. The ride capacities and park attendance approximations are all there.

All of these posts finally make some sense to me as to the "why." Thank you. Doesn't necessarily make me thrilled, but we stay a full 7 nights anyway, some don't. Will just have to fine tune all of this if we go in Oct. Will love to see what summer holds in reading the boards. I saw a photo of the line today on Facebook for Haunted Mansion and it was backed up to Hall of Presidents nearly and about 4 deep...OY!

 

[JimmyV]

...but they haven't changed the number of actual FPs they issue over each time segment.

There are now people getting into the FP return line at 9:05 (on days when the park opens at 9:00). That never happened before and could never happen before. And they are giving the FP return lines super-priority. In the past, they would take a certain number of FP returnees at a time, and then hold them back to let SB people in the ride, and alternate. Now, FP people never wait. They get right through. We observed a day when people in the SB line at BTMRR didn't move an inch in 30 minutes while the FP people boarded one after the other after the other. That never happened before. (And the people in the SB line were furious and started chanting like they were on a prison ship.) So, yes, the FP line is very much becoming the new SB line as the best and only way to get on a ride in a reasonable amount of time. My FP return waits were routinely in the 17-24 minute range. Compare that to the waits under FP-. I'm not going to complain because the SB lines were 60+ minutes, so FP was the better option. But it simply cannot be said that the waiting and boarding process under FP+ is the same as it was under FP-.

 

[MrInfinity]

Thousands of guests who used to be forced to wait until the day of to make their FP+ reservations will soon have the ability to reserve at the 30 day mark. This will certainly affect availability, with popular rides likely running out before the day of.

Doesn't matter. I added up the capacities of the tier-1's at EC, and concluded that there is enough for every guest to get 1. Simple. Disney has done this same math in far more detail I'm sure! I did the same thing for MK, picking the non-tiered rides that seem to be desirable, added them up, and came out to there being plenty for each guest to get 3.

The limits that we see in place ensure the availability of the FPs (in particular the Tier-1's) for everyone, even late-choosers like the day-of folks.

 

[morethananyonex]

And that's why it needed to happen. People have been touting how awesome this all is with only half of the daily attendance using it. We at least need to be able to evaluate with everyone using it.

Exactly.

I'm thinking "just book the night before" isn't going to work so well come April. Not to mention, day of flexibility is likely going to get worse with everyone having the ability to make changes on their phones and offsite guests not having to decide between a long kiosk wait or no FP at all.

Hopefully this is where we start to see changes to the FP+ system, because now at least Disney can see what it actually looks like with everyone fully using it.