Another family issue

[PaulaSB12]

I may have posted before, this is an ongoing issue my DH doesn't confront, he will likely ignore a conflict and leave but I believe his parents made a conscious decision by telling him if his brother turns up he leaves because they don't want an issue.
DH is not as close to them, he moved out at 16 to join one of the armed forces and his brother moved out at 33 when his girlfriend became pregnant, they are very different people for siblings, DH is very independent and his brother and wife rely on the parents for alot of things (well, they did, I have no idea what goes on now).

The card thing is getting up my nose...alot. They make no other effort, I feel like they run back to their friends and say "we sent them a card and they didn't even say thankyou", like a card will make kicking their son out of their home ok.

And my DS asking about the grandparents, he remembers them, talks about them a little, we don't talk about the issues in front of him.
My Dh is very mild mannered, his brother is the one more likely to fly off the handle.
In all of this DH feels that we came second in everything, we're supposed to give into everything they say, the parents drive the boat, say what happens and the sons and their wives are the passengers and give in to everything they say, whether they agree or not.

Have you ever thought they might be scared of a rebuff if they called? That if you saw their phone number on caller id you might ignore it? They are reaching out and you are ignoring them them try phoning them to see if they are trying reach out to you, for all you know something might have happened that has made them see how daft the whole situation is and they might want to make amends.

 

[becpee]

The two brothers were fighting. They said we don't want you two fighting in the house. They were obviously BOTH welcome in the house. Your husband appears to have been going over to pick up your son and his brother was going over for something else. So... come pick him up but if your brother arrives, that's when you have to go, because we can't have you both here.

How in the world is that "choosing his brother over him?" And what, precisely, would have been preferred, if they "chose" him over his brother? That'd be fine and not terrible, because it'd be your husband that was "chosen?"

What if the brother was coming over for dinner and your husband was picking up the kid, hence, if he comes over it's time for you to go? What if it were reversed and your husband was coming for dinner and his brother was going to like, drop off something he'd borrowed and they said oh, come by and drop it off but if [your husband] shows up, you have to go because we can't have you both here at the same time' would that have been ok?

I agree completely with Magic Mom - you're making stuff up and basing actions off of it and having fights with people who aren't even in the fights. I know someone who is the QUEEN of this. Very few people speak to her.

She doesn't need them to, as she can have the fight with them all by herself.

"I can't believe you did that... I know you thought X, but you should've Y. You may not think that Z and think that you can do B because of C but that's not the way it works!" The other person, I guarantee, has not spoken, has not indicated they thought X or Z or that they could do B, and may not have thought anything at all like that - but she thought up these elaborate scenarios, stewing over everyone else's motivations and what she's SURE people are thinking and why they did what they did or she thinks they probably did and... it's all invented in her damn head.

She'll tell you she's sure because she knows the people, that that's what they think, but she doesn't, in fact, really know anyone well, because she is always more convinced of and interested in the invented drama than reality and because she cannot, cannot, cannot grasp that people think differently than she does.

THEY didn't ignore your son, they send him cards - the only way they're ignoring him is because they're not doing what you THINK THEY SHOULD do (pick up the phone and x, y, z, etc.) to make contact.

Seems like you two are a match. He thinks that's what they'd say, so he apparently decided that's what they'd say, despite hving INVENTED IT IN HIS HEAD and it having NO BASIS IN REALITY, so he's never going to contact them - because they didn't want the two brothers fighting in their house. Unbelievable.

Umm they did choose, they didn't say it to his brother DH asked his parents at that time, and in no uncertain terms DH was to leave, the brother is welcome to stay and you're to leave.
I didn't make this up, this happened why should my DH pick up the phone to make contact, he was making contact, alot, weekly until they told him he was not welcome in their home if his brother was there, and no if your brother is here you're not allowed to pick up your son either.
What is made up about that? Nothing, it happened.

He knows his mother, loves her, but knows her and she can and will manipulate a situation to get it her way, and if it's not her way it's no way.
Yep, unbelievable indeed...

 

[PaulaSB12]

My mind is open, which is why I asked for advice, but I still can't understand how his parents are not 100% in the wrong, they made a conscious choice, and made is clear.
There was a large time frame between the final fallout, we didn't just pack up and move the day after, we were there for another 9 months and all we heard from them was a screaming bellowing phonecall and my DH hung up, I don't blame him, I could hear the screaming down the phoneline in the next room.
The inlaws wanted to look after our son, encouraged me to change my hours for them to look after him for an hour 2 afternoons a week which I did, and when push came to shove they didn't follow through with something they said they'd do, not only that but they told my DH he's not welcome in their home if his brother is there, so I wonder who didn't value the relationship?

YOUR mind is open really what a joke. No your mind is shut like a clam you are both being childish. You don't want to even find out if his parents want to apologise you seem to want them to come to you on bended knees to say you are so wonderful we are so wrong. What happens when your son grows up with the attitude that parents are to be dropped over something so minor? Will you be online moaning because of an ungrateful child then? Or will you be blaming him because everything is someone else's fault?

 

[becpee]

YOUR mind is open really what a joke. No your mind is shut like a clam you are both being childish. You don't want to even find out if his parents want to apologise you seem to want them to come to you on bended knees to say you are so wonderful we are so wrong. What happens when your son grows up with the attitude that parents are to be dropped over something so minor? Will you be online moaning because of an ungrateful child then? Or will you be blaming him because everything is someone else's fault?

If they wanted to apologise they could and haven't yet, so it's probably not going to happen.

I don't think telling one of your children to leave over another is minor, it's making a choice between your children, even if you do favour one child don't you think it'd be a nice thing to try and treat them the same?

 

[cornflake]

Umm they did choose, they didn't say it to his brother DH asked his parents at that time, and in no uncertain terms DH was to leave, the brother is welcome to stay and you're to leave.
I didn't make this up, this happened why should my DH pick up the phone to make contact, he was making contact, alot, weekly until they told him he was not welcome in their home if his brother was there, and no if your brother is here you're not allowed to pick up your son either.
What is made up about that? Nothing, it happened.

He knows his mother, loves her, but knows her and she can and will manipulate a situation to get it her way, and if it's not her way it's no way.
Yep, unbelievable indeed...

Yes, they weren't to be there at the SAME TIME.

So, your options are:

1. Neither son is allowed in the parents' house because they're having a dumb fight with each other.

2. One can be there at a time.

Obviously, you'd have preferred they said your husband can come and stay for however long he likes for whatever reason and his brother can take a flying leap, then they'd have "chosen," him, but in the one, single circumstance in which they both may have been there at the same time, yes, they said the one there to pick up his kid would have to be the one to leave IN THAT INSTANCE.

As for the latter, well, the person I know who can have an entire fight with someone without the other person ever saying a word will tell you she knows too. That's how it works when one prefers the fiction they invent over trying reality.

 

[PaulaSB12]

If they wanted to apologise they could and haven't yet, so it's probably not going to happen.

I don't think telling one of your children to leave over another is minor, it's making a choice between your children, even if you do favour one child don't you think it'd be a nice thing to try and treat them the same?

Or you and your husband can think of your son for just one second, you say he is in pain because he doesn't see his grandparents well put what you feel to one side try and build back the bonds even if its never the same if your son sees his grandparents and stops feeling the pain of the separation that will be good for him or are your own slights so much more important than the pain that all the stupid adults are causing him.

 

[becpee]

Yes, they weren't to be there at the SAME TIME.

So, your options are:

1. Neither son is allowed in the parents' house because they're having a dumb fight with each other.

2. One can be there at a time.

Obviously, you'd have preferred they said your husband can come and stay for however long he likes for whatever reason and his brother can take a flying leap, then they'd have "chosen," him, but in the one, single circumstance in which they both may have been there at the same time, yes, they said the one there to pick up his kid would have to be the one to leave IN THAT INSTANCE.

As for the latter, well, the person I know who can have an entire fight with someone without the other person ever saying a word will tell you she knows too. That's how it works when one prefers the fiction they invent over trying reality.

But it wasn't in that instance!
This is what is ridiculous, my DH wasn't to stop if his brother is there, at all, can't pick his own child up.
If his brother turns up he has to leave immediately, but his brother is allowed to stop there, if he is there picking up DS?
They were going to be looking after him two days a week for an hour and this is how it rolls, it wasn't one instance.
This isn't fiction, this is what was to happen and DH wouldn't go for it, I don't blame him.

You were the favoured child huh?

 

[cornflake]

But it wasn't in that instance!
This is what is ridiculous, my DH wasn't to stop if his brother is there, at all, can't pick his own child up.
If his brother turns up he has to leave immediately, but his brother is allowed to stop there, if he is there picking up DS?
They were going to be looking after him two days a week for an hour and this is how it rolls, it wasn't one instance.
This isn't fiction, this is what was to happen and DH wouldn't go for it, I don't blame him.

You were the favoured child huh?

Oy, vey iz mir.

You said this was one instance. You described the instance. Now it's perpetual or... perhaps, did you think it WOULD be perpetual?

If they cannot both be there, one will have to leave.

It is not "not treating them the same" to say one has to leave AT A TIME. It is not choosing one over the other to say one has to leave AT A TIME.

Again - would you have been ok with them telling your brother in law to get lost because your husband was there? Would that have been terrible of them, because they were choosing one child over another and not treating them the same?

 

[NHdisneylover]

I've the entire thread. I've tried to keep an open mind OP.

I keep coming back to that you, OP, and your husband are being remarkably petty and that you and your husband and NO ONE ELSE are the ones denying your child a relationship with his grandparents.

You keep harping on the "choosing one brother over another" thing--so I will just address that one point more closely:
I think your husband caused that himself. From your own posts, it seems that the two brothers argued over the golf weekend. One brother was willing to keep trying to talk it out and resolve the issue (your brother in law) and ones refuses to talk about it or do anything that might make it better (your DH).
If my two children were so at odds that it was not comfortable for them to be in the same room and someone had t leave, I would absolutely choose to have the one who refuses to try to resolve the situation leave over the one who is willing to talk about it.
Basically, your husband's refusal to talk and his desire to just ignore bad things and let them fester is the reason for the ongoing issue, instead of it having been over after a few days. So, as the REASON for the feud, yes he has to be the one to leave.
I don't think there is anything sinister or unloving or any kind of favourtism in that. it is just logic--the one being unreasonable and causing an issue is the one you ask to leave sot that he issue does not spill over into your home.

 

[iheartdisney]

YOUR mind is open really what a joke. No your mind is shut like a clam you are both being childish. You don't want to even find out if his parents want to apologise you seem to want them to come to you on bended knees to say you are so wonderful we are so wrong. What happens when your son grows up with the attitude that parents are to be dropped over something so minor? Will you be online moaning because of an ungrateful child then? Or will you be blaming him because everything is someone else's fault?

Or better yet, if her grown DS one day slights OP and her DH. And they cut their son out of their lives, all the while bemoaning how much she misses her grandchildren!

There are two sides to every story, and we are only getting one chapter of one side of one story.
Some can obsess about what it means that the younger brother lived at home until his thirties. Yet not mentioning that it is equally curious that the older brother left home at 16. That could speak VOLUMES!

I am just not from the mindset that family is disposable. Or if your family is disposable, don't come fishing for sympathy. The phone rings both ways.

 

[becpee]

I've the entire thread. I've tried to keep an open mind OP.

I keep coming back to that you, OP, and your husband are being remarkably petty and that you and your husband and NO ONE ELSE are the ones denying your child a relationship with his grandparents.

You keep harping on the "choosing one brother over another" thing--so I will just address that one point more closely:
I think your husband caused that himself. From your own posts, it seems that the two brothers argued over the golf weekend. One brother was willing to keep trying to talk it out and resolve the issue (your brother in law) and ones refuses to talk about it or do anything that might make it better (your DH).
If my two children were so at odds that it was not comfortable for them to be in the same room and someone had t leave, I would absolutely choose to have the one who refuses to try to resolve the situation leave over the one who is willing to talk about it.
Basically, your husband's refusal to talk and his desire to just ignore bad things and let them fester is the reason for the ongoing issue, instead of it having been over after a few days. So, as the REASON for the feud, yes he has to be the one to leave.
I don't think there is anything sinister or unloving or any kind of favourtism in that. it is just logic--the one being unreasonable and causing an issue is the one you ask to leave sot that he issue does not spill over into your home.

I don't know where the brother tried to talk it out? He ran to his mum and dad and cried to them and said "I thought it was a boys weekend but he's taking her and him". Dh didn't change his mind about taking us, BIL was still welcome to come, BIL didn't end up going, his choice and they weren't speaking because DH didn't leave me at home like his brother told him to.
Maybe BIL kept harping to his mum and dad, I don't know about that but DH didn't feel he had anything to more to say about it, the golf weekend had been and gone, the IL's told DH to sort it out with him and DH didn't feel there was anything to sort, but they still weren't talking and without them both being at the house they weren't going to get a chance really to talk either, BIL didn't ring and DH didn't ring.

 

[becpee]

There are two sides to every story, and we are only getting one chapter of one side of one story.
Some can obsess about what it means that the younger brother lived at home until his thirties. Yet not mentioning that it is equally curious that the older brother left home at 16. That could speak VOLUMES!

Yep, two sides
As for why he left home at 16, he went and lived on a really big boat for 9 years...Speaks volumes alright, went out, became a bit more independent, travelled the world, paid his own way, yep, it says alot about him...

 

[becpee]

Oy, vey iz mir.

You said this was one instance. You described the instance. Now it's perpetual or... perhaps, did you think it WOULD be perpetual?

If they cannot both be there, one will have to leave.

It is not "not treating them the same" to say one has to leave AT A TIME. It is not choosing one over the other to say one has to leave AT A TIME.

Again - would you have been ok with them telling your brother in law to get lost because your husband was there? Would that have been terrible of them, because they were choosing one child over another and not treating them the same?

This was the first instance, and previously the arrangement had been made that it was about 1 hour 2 nights a week, and the same one has to leave all the time, not the other one ever, just the one.

 

[cornflake]

This was the first instance, and previously the arrangement had been made that it was about 1 hour 2 nights a week, and the same one has to leave all the time, not the other one ever, just the one.

You said...

I believe his parents made a conscious decision by telling him if his brother turns up he leaves because they don't want an issue.

How, exactly, does that equal 'the same one has to leave all the time, not the other one ever?"

How do you know they didn't say the EXACT SAME THING to his brother? That if his brother was there and your husband turned up, the brother had to leave becuse they don't want an issue?

Also...

Yes, we moved and they had cut contact before that, told DH not to be in their home when his brother was there, DH's take on it was that his parents thought he should put his brother before his DW and child and make it the boys weekend when all the other golf families would be there, DH was not prepared to do that.

Seriously, perfect match. Do the two of you sit around and think up scenarios about what everyone else is thinking and doing to cast them all as villains who wrong you both somehow?

Because, see how this goes?

DH said he was taking his family and his brother objected and said it was supposed to be a "boys weekend", and DH said he's not interested in those type of things,

Ok, he's not interested.

the parents got involved and told DH to speak to his brother about it

The parents told them to work it out.

DH felt there was nothing to say about it, the weekend was always a family weekend, his brother wanted to force the issue and DH wouldn't buy into it anymore.

This is where NH got what she did. They said 'talk to your brother about it.' Your husband said there's nothing to say. Apparently his brother wanted to discuss it but your husband wouldn't. Then they said you're fighting, if he comes over, leave, we're not having an issue in the house. Somehow, this becomes...

DH's take on it was that his parents thought he should put his brother before his DW and child

And they "chose" him and yada yada and are now sending you all birthday cards in an effort only to be actually mean because they send them just so they can tell everyone they sent them but you didn't respond and you're terrible, which is just. How. Evil. They. Are.

Hyperbolic much? See above re: enjoying spinning scenarios in which things have hidden meaning that wrong you terribly.

 

[becpee]

Yep Cornflake, perfect match.

He's not interested in a boys weekend, been there, done that, whats to discuss?

He asked his parents about the leaving thing, he put the scenarios to them, this is what they told him.

So, should I send the card back or not?

 

[cornflake]

Yep Cornflake, perfect match.

He's not interested in a boys weekend, been there, done that, whats to discuss?

He asked his parents about the leaving thing, he put the scenarios to them, this is what they told him.

So, should I send the card back or not?

I dunno, most people with disagreements discuss something like adults, attempt to find a compromise or come to some understanding, not just cross their arms and run off in a huff refusing to say a word because everyone didn't agree with them.

I thought you binned it. But sure, why not do the most uncalled for, unprovoked nasty thing possible in response to a perfectly banal birthday card for no apparent reason?

 

[becpee]

I dunno, most people with disagreements discuss something like adults, attempt to find a compromise or come to some understanding, not just cross their arms and run off in a huff refusing to say a word because everyone didn't agree with them.

I thought you binned it. But sure, why not do the most uncalled for, unprovoked nasty thing possible in response to a perfectly banal birthday card for no apparent reason?

What was to discuss though, DH didn't want to make it a boys weekend? Why did the parents say anything at all? He didn't run off in a huff, he got told not to be there, fine, he's not, that was their choice.

I haven't put the rubbish out yet.

It's all relative though, isn't it, like I did say earlier, this was just the last thing, and enough for my DH to also say enough is enough.

They could do better than a card for him and their grandson.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Thank you Cornflake for explaining. That is exactly why I came to the conclusion that I did.

OP, basically your husband thinks there is "nothing to talk about" so refuses to engage in conversation about any of it and apparently makes no attempts to engage his parents in other conversations about other tropics even and then has the gall to think they are the ones prolonging this I jsut canlt imagine where he (and you) get that idea.

 

[cornflake]

What was to discuss though, DH didn't want to make it a boys weekend? Why did the parents say anything at all? He didn't run off in a huff, he got told not to be there, fine, he's not, that was their choice.

I haven't put the rubbish out yet.

It's all relative though, isn't it, like I did say earlier, this was just the last thing, and enough for my DH to also say enough is enough.

They could do better than a card for him and their grandson.

You cut off contact with them, have not acknowledged that they've sent you cards for years and... they should "do better than a card?"

Why is it on them, perpetually? Do you and your husband bear no responsibility for ANY of this, in your minds?

They said both can't be in the house at the same time, he refuses to speak to his brother because he won't even discuss it because he "sees nothing to discuss" and they're apparently supposed to either throw both their sons out in perpetuity or "choose" him, though he's the one being recalcitrant, and because they didn't, they said both can't be in the house at the same time, you said you'll have nothing more to do with them.

That's supposed to prompt them to send gifts? Just... what?

 

[becpee]

You cut off contact with them, have not acknowledged that they've sent you cards for years and... they should "do better than a card?"

Why is it on them, perpetually? Do you and your husband bear no responsibility for ANY of this, in your minds?

They said both can't be in the house at the same time, he refuses to speak to his brother because he won't even discuss it because he "sees nothing to discuss" and they're apparently supposed to either throw both their sons out in perpetuity or "choose" him, though he's the one being recalcitrant, and because they didn't, they said both can't be in the house at the same time, you said you'll have nothing more to do with them.

That's supposed to prompt them to send gifts? Just... what?

They have his phone number, like I said, this is the last issue, like a snowball, and as for my responsibility in all of this I said nothing to any of his family regarding any of this, or any of the previous issues.
I deal with my family and he deals with his.
Yes, again, he refused to discuss the golf trip that was DONE 4 months before, pretty much told his parents to tell his brother to get over it, and returned once to drop off Christmas presents to his parents then left. His parents said sort it, what was to sort? The trip was done.
We don't want gifts, we don't want cards, I do though think that they could pick up the phone, although the last phone conversation ended very badly.
Or if you want to send a card and open a line of communication something as small as saying I miss you, I hope you're well, might do it.
The card's are stilted, have no warmth, what are they expecting truly?