Another family issue

[jujube]

I may have posted before, this is an ongoing issue my DH doesn't confront, he will likely ignore a conflict and leave but I believe his parents made a conscious decision by telling him if his brother turns up he leaves because they don't want an issue.
DH is not as close to them, he moved out at 16 to join one of the armed forces and his brother moved out at 33 when his girlfriend became pregnant, they are very different people for siblings, DH is very independent and his brother and wife rely on the parents for alot of things (well, they did, I have no idea what goes on now).

The card thing is getting up my nose...alot. They make no other effort, I feel like they run back to their friends and say "we sent them a card and they didn't even say thankyou", like a card will make kicking their son out of their home ok.

And my DS asking about the grandparents, he remembers them, talks about them a little, we don't talk about the issues in front of him.
My Dh is very mild mannered, his brother is the one more likely to fly off the handle.
In all of this DH feels that we came second in everything, we're supposed to give into everything they say, the parents drive the boat, say what happens and the sons and their wives are the passengers and give in to everything they say, whether they agree or not.

Your in laws sound like my parents. They would have excuses not to watch my kids or 2 of my brother's kids. My youngest brother's kids on the other hand, they watch every single day. You know what though, it's the way they are. It used to hurt me but I realized that if I wanted any kind of relationship with them, I'd have to accept the favoritism. So, maybe some might think that they win but they'd be wrong because I do have a loving relationship with my parents. They are flawed human beings but then, so am I.

I do blame them, 110% The parents didn't need to get involved but chose to, and then backed the brother, probably the whole "blood needs to stick together thing", i'm family too, DH married me, it makes me family, and DH made a choice to stick with me and take his family away like he'd always intended, and like he'd told his brother to, and like all the other golf men do that weekend.

There are so many little bits I could mention, but this was the boiling point, and DH had had enough.

In all of this I haven't said anything in their arguments, i've not been there when it's gone down, i've heard the yelling on the phone but I side with my DH 100%

Again, my parents would get involved-overly involved. My husband and I laugh about it because his parents were barely involved at all in our lives. If only we could have a set of parents right smack in the middle.

If either I or my husband has gotten into disagreements with our parents, we do not necessarily agree 100% that the spouse was in the right because maybe they weren't. We are honest with each other.

The end argument was over something trivial, but this was a build up, it wasn't a one off BANG not talking to them anymore, when your parents choose which child to have in the house.
I wouldn't get into an argument between my children and I certainly wouldn't tell one of them they're not welcome over an argument that isn't mine.
And I didn't cut off contact, my DH deals with his family and I deal with mine, he chose to not visit them after that, they knew where we lived.
We don't discuss this in front of my DS, he doesn't need to know the ins and outs right now, he doesn't know about the cards, and my DH doesn't tell him, my DH gives me mine and they are mine to do what I want with, they're in the drawer unopened.
I always treated them with love and respect, but if you hurt my DH it hurts me, I don't like that...

You say this now but unless you have a crystal ball, I'm afraid you don't know what the future holds. Whether your husband, your BIL, or your in laws were all wrong or partly wrong, you're teaching your son to be intolerant of flaws in other people. This quote is not meant in the religious sense:
For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind

OP, parents have favorites. There I said it. I have 3 kids. Two are grown and one is about to graduate high school. Each can be at the top of my favorite list or at the bottom depending on the day. On the other hand, my baby brother and my husband's baby brother are the every day of the week favorites and are shown their specialness by our parents in many ways. Do we notice it, obviously we do. We accept it. It does not color our lives in an negative way because we do not allow it. You and your husband make a choice to have a relationship or not. You and your husband make a choice to be the bigger, more accepting people. You and your husband make the choice to teach your son tolerance. You and your husband make the choice to hold onto anger or to let it go.

In my opinion, the two brothers should man up and discuss the situation or they should each sit in a time out chair because they're acting like ill-behaved 4 year olds.

 

[Southernmiss]

It so saddens me to see situations like this.

DHs brother had not spoken to his father in 15 or so years. I just couldn't understand it and why neither put out the olive branch. I know the cause of the rift, but ALL PARTIES INVOLVED ARE ADULTS and someone should be the bigger person and step up and try to make amends.

DHs brother came to our area (lives 6 hours away) recently for a friend's funeral and visited his father and stayed at his house. I could see the happiness in the father's face for reconnecting with his son. He has missed his 3 grandsons on that side grow up and the birth of 5 great grand children.

Hope it never happens with my kids it would break my heart.

I see the card sending as a way to stay connected, not a dig.

 

[ols386]

It so saddens me to see situations like this.

DHs brother had not spoken to his father in 15 or so years. I just couldn't understand it and why neither put out the olive branch. I know the cause of the rift, but ALL PARTIES INVOLVED ARE ADULTS and someone should be the bigger person and step up and try to make amends.

DHs brother came to our area (lives 6 hours away) recently for a friend's funeral and visited his father and stayed at his house. I could see the happiness in the father's face for reconnecting with his son. He has missed his 3 grandsons on that side grow up and the birth of 5 great grand children.

Hope it never happens with my kids it would break my heart.

I see the card sending as a way to stay connected, not a dig.

I agree.

And the thing is, it could be interpreted either way...either stay connected....or as a dig. Op interprets it as a dig or something of that natue.

 

[EMom]

If someone esentially told me I wasn't weclome in their home (lest baby brother be upset), they would get their wish. It doesn't take much to read between the lines (such as baby brother living with mom & dad until he was 33) to get the idea that baby brother is the favored child. Baby brother wants his older brother to ditch his wife and child for what is traditionally a FAMILY/ DH, wife and kids weekend. Big brother refuses to ditch wife and kid, even though baby brother is more than happy to be shed of his wife and kids. Baby brother can spend any weekend with his big brother, but he draws a line in the sand over this.

The parents take baby brother's side (big shock) and make it clear that big brother cannot be in their home when baby brother is there, even to pick up his own child when grandparents were supposed to watch to the child for ONCE. Apparently, watching baby brother's kids is a regular event. Again, what a shock.

My take is that baby brother (and by extension, his kids) are the favored ones and the parents didn't balk at choosing them over the older son. Something also tells me the parents would have NEVER sat back and been separated from baby son and his kids for the past 3 years, content to send cards. Nope, they would have apologized how ever many times it took.....But not been separated from their favored son.

There's been a subtext running through this that gives me the impression there is some sort of funky relationship between the parents and youngest son.......Maybe all those 33 years in the same house caused a codependent relationship. But the parents should have stayed out of the disagreement and barring that, not treated the oldest son like a second class citizen. I get the impression the OP's DH just got tired of coming in second, saw his future and decided to say, "Who needs the aggravation?"

My bet is that if he DID call his parents and make nice, it would not be too long before history repeated itself and the parents began to favor baby brother and/or his kids. Sometimes, you just have to cut your losses, see your family for how it is and walk away.

As for the baby brother "just wanted a boys only weekend with his brother"......B.S. If his big brother meant that much to him, be wouldn't have sent back the gifts for his kids. And he couldn't have stood being separated for the past 3 years from such a "beloved" big brother. Nope......I think he wanted to get away from the wife and kids that weekend and needed a "partner in crime." So much easier to explain to your wife that she and the kids are being left at home if your big brother is doing it too. But big brother threw a monkey wrench in his plans by sticking with the tradition of bringing the wife and kids along, like everyone else does.

But no matter what, I wouldn't send the cards back. Just ignore them. I notice not one card said they were sorry for butting in and taking sides.

Of course, I may be wrong. Or maybe we all are. But I do see an undercurrent of favoritism running through the situation, and I think the OP's DH just got tired of it.

 

[EMom]

Why didn't your DH just tell his brother that you and DS were coming, end of story? I don't see why something like this had to get all blown up out of proportion either.

I am not going to go back and read all the posts, but I think her DH actually did tell his brother something along the lines of, "I am bringing my wife and kids and I'm not going to discuss it further." That is when HE became the bad guy.

 

[disykat]

Actually you said the SAME people who think returning cards is bad are ok with returning gifts. Then you quoted me. So it stands to reason you were referencing ME as one of the "same people."

Not sure why you're quoting me because I never used the words "same people."

I can see why you thought I might be implying that, but I never said it, thus putting in quotations doesn't make sense. I quoted your post along with another one to show the posts I was referencing as an example of those suggesting it was right to return the gifts. I did not claim you said things you didn't say. People were saying one thing, others were saying the other. It was ironic.

Why do people get so upset if their posts are copied anyway?

 

[NYEmomma]

Ceila, you may be right. I grew up in a situation very similar to yours. As an adult, however, I've come to a different conclusion. No matter how ugly my DGM may have been to my parents, I should have been given an opportunity to forge a relationship with my relatives. Perhaps I would have walked away as my parents did from them but it was my right to do so. As much as I find my own inlaws annoying, my kids have a right to know their grandparents. Also, I would bet our families' situations involved issues more serious than who goes golfing. If the OP's ILs were abusive or truly toxic, then I'd agreed with the OP.

I'm coming into this conversation late, but this is something I struggle with a LOT. MIL and half of my BIL's are just... toxic. MIL isn't mentally stable (though no one has been able to get through to her on that topic -- she's been asked multiple times to see a therapist) and BIL's are just plain immature and hold some beliefs that I truly believe are intolerable.

We try to have as little contact with them as possible. We'll go years at a time w/o having contact with MIL. Both DH & I have agreed that our children will NEVER be around MIL or BIL's unsupervised. But I often wonder whether DDs will grow up and be resentful that they didn't have a relationship with their grandmother?? I mean... we're doing it because we have their best interests in mind. DH & his brothers have all been really emotionally traumatized by their mother and I don't want my children to experience any of that. But should I allow them to learn the lesson about their grandmother the hard way??

To the OP: I learned a long time ago that I can't project my idea of proper family dynamics onto DH's family. They just don't fit the mold of how I always thought a family should function. To *me* it's unfathomable that I could just drop all of my feelings and attachments to my family -- and not feel horrible every single day of my life that my own parents don't want a relationship with my children. But my DH has very similar feelings as your DH does towards his family. And I've given up trying to persuade him to reconcile or anything along those lines. He's the one that has spent 32 years with them, not me. If he chooses not to have a relationship with them, that's his decision. And if he's able to do that and still be in a healthy, happy place mentally, more power to him. It's not my place at all to get involved with his relationship with hi family.

 

[Planogirl]

I am not going to go back and read all the posts, but I think her DH actually did tell his brother something along the lines of, "I am bringing my wife and kids and I'm not going to discuss it further." That is when HE became the bad guy.

I would have still gone more than likely but I'm stubborn that way.

I wonder why the parents would get mad at the OP's DH over this. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[declansdad]

I agree with this. I guess some people put more value on a halmark card with a signature than I do. I don't see how it could even be construed as reaching out. It seems more like a slap in the face to me. Like "we won't really talk to you, visit your home, or want you in our home in case your brother comes over, but we'll send you a card with a signature on it once a year so we're fullfilling our duty as parents" kind of slap.

Pretty hard to visit them when the OP and her DH moved and didn't tell them the new address. It seems there is enough pettiness on both sides.

As far how you could construe the cards as reaching out, if the parents are as stubborn as the kids seem to be, it could be there way of trying to make that contact and save a little face.

 

[WowLookAtThat]

I would have still gone more than likely but I'm stubborn that way.

I wonder why the parents would get mad at the OP's DH over this. It just doesn't make sense.

I don't know why the OP's in laws are just mad at her husband but I do think that this fight was not the reason for them not talking. I think there were other things and that this fight that would be just a small tiff was made more into what it was.

 

[Feralpeg]

Op, I don't know your whole family dynamic. I realize that there are hurt feelings. Just remember, life is short. Regret is something that looms large when there is no way to go back.

How will your DH feel, in the future, when his parents are gone? What about your son? You can't give him back those years without his grandparents.

Sometimes, little things can escalate to have huge consequences. Make sure you and your DH are not cutting off your noses to spite your face. Sometimes, it takes being the bigger person in a conflict to be the winner.

 

[declansdad]

This is how my DH takes it, i'm not brainwashed but this is how I also take it.
A card?
Pick up the phone, say I shouldn't have gotten involved, I shouldn't have made a choice, sorry, smooth over, lets catch up for lunch somewhere.
Not a card that says " To ____, Happy birthday, from mum and dad".
It's not the same thing.

Maybe this is how the parents take it:

Maybe if we send a card, he'll call to say thanks and we can start to talk about this.

 

[iheartdisney]

Op, I don't know your whole family dynamic. I realize that there are hurt feelings. Just remember, life is short. Regret is something that looms large when there is no way to go back.

How will your DH feel, in the future, when his parents are gone? What about your son? You can't give him back those years without his grandparents.

Sometimes, little things can escalate to have huge consequences. Make sure you and your DH are not cutting off your noses to spite your face. Sometimes, it takes being the bigger person in a conflict to be the winner.

Or as an otherwise useless TV shrink used to say,
"Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?"

 

[becpee]

If someone esentially told me I wasn't weclome in their home (lest baby brother be upset), they would get their wish. It doesn't take much to read between the lines (such as baby brother living with mom & dad until he was 33) to get the idea that baby brother is the favored child. Baby brother wants his older brother to ditch his wife and child for what is traditionally a FAMILY/ DH, wife and kids weekend. Big brother refuses to ditch wife and kid, even though baby brother is more than happy to be shed of his wife and kids. Baby brother can spend any weekend with his big brother, but he draws a line in the sand over this.

The parents take baby brother's side (big shock) and make it clear that big brother cannot be in their home when baby brother is there, even to pick up his own child when grandparents were supposed to watch to the child for ONCE. Apparently, watching baby brother's kids is a regular event. Again, what a shock.

My take is that baby brother (and by extension, his kids) are the favored ones and the parents didn't balk at choosing them over the older son. Something also tells me the parents would have NEVER sat back and been separated from baby son and his kids for the past 3 years, content to send cards. Nope, they would have apologized how ever many times it took.....But not been separated from their favored son.

There's been a subtext running through this that gives me the impression there is some sort of funky relationship between the parents and youngest son.......Maybe all those 33 years in the same house caused a codependent relationship. But the parents should have stayed out of the disagreement and barring that, not treated the oldest son like a second class citizen. I get the impression the OP's DH just got tired of coming in second, saw his future and decided to say, "Who needs the aggravation?"

My bet is that if he DID call his parents and make nice, it would not be too long before history repeated itself and the parents began to favor baby brother and/or his kids. Sometimes, you just have to cut your losses, see your family for how it is and walk away.

As for the baby brother "just wanted a boys only weekend with his brother"......B.S. If his big brother meant that much to him, be wouldn't have sent back the gifts for his kids. And he couldn't have stood being separated for the past 3 years from such a "beloved" big brother. Nope......I think he wanted to get away from the wife and kids that weekend and needed a "partner in crime." So much easier to explain to your wife that she and the kids are being left at home if your big brother is doing it too. But big brother threw a monkey wrench in his plans by sticking with the tradition of bringing the wife and kids along, like everyone else does.

But no matter what, I wouldn't send the cards back. Just ignore them. I notice not one card said they were sorry for butting in and taking sides.

Of course, I may be wrong. Or maybe we all are. But I do see an undercurrent of favoritism running through the situation, and I think the OP's DH just got tired of it.

Gosh dang you're right on the money

As for the card, it's in the bin

As for the bolded, this is what i'm worried about if they were to speak again, I could never see his parents admitting wrong, and this would happen again because they just don't think that anything is wrong regarding how they feel about their different, grown up, married children

 

[2girls4me]

IMO, they are babying the brother way too much. Either work it out or cut all contact. No calls or cards at all.

It sucks. I know when me and my sister fight over bs, my parents want no part of it.

Your dh's parents need to grow a pair and tell his brother to deal with it and just move on.

 

[jujube]

Maybe this is how the parents take it:

Maybe if we send a card, he'll call to say thanks and we can start to talk about this.

Or as an otherwise useless TV shrink used to say,
"Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?"

I think we know the answer.

 

[Magic Mom]

Not sure why you're quoting me because I never used the words "same people."

I can see why you thought I might be implying that, but I never said it, thus putting in quotations doesn't make sense. I quoted your post along with another one to show the posts I was referencing as an example of those suggesting it was right to return the gifts. I did not claim you said things you didn't say. People were saying one thing, others were saying the other. It was ironic.

Why do people get so upset if their posts are copied anyway?

I wasn't upset, I was clarifying that I wasn't being hypocritical about the gift/card issues.

 

[krcit]

Gosh dang you're right on the money

As for the card, it's in the bin

As for the bolded, this is what i'm worried about if they were to speak again, I could never see his parents admitting wrong, and this would happen again because they just don't think that anything is wrong regarding how they feel about their different, grown up, married children

Why did you even post and ask for advice? You clearly have your mind made up that your in-laws are 100% in the wrong and don't want to listen to anyone who is trying to open your mind to other possibilities. I mean, you moved and didn't give them your new address but you have justified that too. I think it is sad whe people don't value relationships enough to actually sit down and discuss things before it is too late.

 

[becpee]

Why did you even post and ask for advice? You clearly have your mind made up that your in-laws are 100% in the wrong and don't want to listen to anyone who is trying to open your mind to other possibilities. I mean, you moved and didn't give them your new address but you have justified that too. I think it is sad whe people don't value relationships enough to actually sit down and discuss things before it is too late.

My mind is open, which is why I asked for advice, but I still can't understand how his parents are not 100% in the wrong, they made a conscious choice, and made is clear.
There was a large time frame between the final fallout, we didn't just pack up and move the day after, we were there for another 9 months and all we heard from them was a screaming bellowing phonecall and my DH hung up, I don't blame him, I could hear the screaming down the phoneline in the next room.
The inlaws wanted to look after our son, encouraged me to change my hours for them to look after him for an hour 2 afternoons a week which I did, and when push came to shove they didn't follow through with something they said they'd do, not only that but they told my DH he's not welcome in their home if his brother is there, so I wonder who didn't value the relationship?

 

[cornflake]

We moved 8 months after we saw them last, there was plenty of time for them to pick up the phone (not to abuse my DH but maybe to say hi) or to send a card and DH's parents returning the niece and nephews presents we bought them was a real slap in the face for us and not easily forgiven, and why would they not tell both of the boys to not be there? Just the one of them, thats a conscious decision in my mind.

First, I don't even remotely understand how they 'made a choice' and I've read the entire thread. You want them to tell both their sons to stay out of their house because the sons are fighting? What?

The two brothers were fighting. They said we don't want you two fighting in the house. They were obviously BOTH welcome in the house. Your husband appears to have been going over to pick up your son and his brother was going over for something else. So... come pick him up but if your brother arrives, that's when you have to go, because we can't have you both here.

How in the world is that "choosing his brother over him?" And what, precisely, would have been preferred, if they "chose" him over his brother? That'd be fine and not terrible, because it'd be your husband that was "chosen?"

What if the brother was coming over for dinner and your husband was picking up the kid, hence, if he comes over it's time for you to go? What if it were reversed and your husband was coming for dinner and his brother was going to like, drop off something he'd borrowed and they said oh, come by and drop it off but if [your husband] shows up, you have to go because we can't have you both here at the same time' would that have been ok?

I agree completely with Magic Mom - you're making stuff up and basing actions off of it and having fights with people who aren't even in the fights. I know someone who is the QUEEN of this. Very few people speak to her.

She doesn't need them to, as she can have the fight with them all by herself.

"I can't believe you did that... I know you thought X, but you should've Y. You may not think that Z and think that you can do B because of C but that's not the way it works!" The other person, I guarantee, has not spoken, has not indicated they thought X or Z or that they could do B, and may not have thought anything at all like that - but she thought up these elaborate scenarios, stewing over everyone else's motivations and what she's SURE people are thinking and why they did what they did or she thinks they probably did and... it's all invented in her damn head.

She'll tell you she's sure because she knows the people, that that's what they think, but she doesn't, in fact, really know anyone well, because she is always more convinced of and interested in the invented drama than reality and because she cannot, cannot, cannot grasp that people think differently than she does.

THEY didn't ignore your son, they send him cards - the only way they're ignoring him is because they're not doing what you THINK THEY SHOULD do (pick up the phone and x, y, z, etc.) to make contact.

I have done, and at this stage he says he's not interested in making it right, and that it wouldn't matter anyway, he thinks whoever is left would say "what are you doing here and what do you want?" if he turned up anywhere near them.

Seems like you two are a match. He thinks that's what they'd say, so he apparently decided that's what they'd say, despite hving INVENTED IT IN HIS HEAD and it having NO BASIS IN REALITY, so he's never going to contact them - because they didn't want the two brothers fighting in their house. Unbelievable.