Annual Passholders Get The Short End

[faithinkarma]

And for some of you to say that some people can't post here because they frequent other boards is just unbelievable.

I certainly did not mean that some people could not post here.

But I do feel that if one reads the title of a thread such as " disappointed about AP rates", one knows it is going to be full of posts from people commiserating or " whining " about AP rates. I don't understand the need some people have to enter the thread and argue, sometimes quite rudely, about how other people FEEL.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
I certainly did not mean that some people could not post here.

But I do feel that if one reads the title of a thread such as " disappointed about AP rates", one knows it is going to be full of posts from people commiserating or " whining " about AP rates. I don't understand the need some people have to enter the thread and argue, sometimes quite rudely, about how other people FEEL.

I would suggest that you read the thread again, and take a look at who the first rude post came from. It certainly wasn't from me, nor was it from anyone else that disagreed with the OP.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

I don't understand the need some people have to enter the thread and argue, sometimes quite rudely, about how other people FEEL.

There are some rude people here, but not the ones you are referring to. They (along with me) are simply pointing out the truth, but the truth is difficult to take.

All of this entitlement crap is just because you (a generic you) bought an AP. Buying an AP doesn't make you any better than any one else. It doesn't entitle you to anything more than unlimited admission for the year that you have it. That's it, nothing more. That is what you are plunking down your good money for. To me that is a great discount in itself.

 

[AllyandJack]

I didn't read all of the posts, but here is what I did.

My AP was up for renewal in August. I just didn't renew it. I booked the Winter Package (10 nights, GF, passes, whatever those wish things are - under $3,000). I called for AP rates to see if it made sense. It didn't. GF for $230./night with tax - $2300. Then I had to add in about $800. for the cost of the two APs. I ended up paying the same, if not a little more. At least I got the wish things!

I'm just trying to go with the flow. I'll miss being an AP holder this trip, but whatever is the best deal for me is what I'm going to do. I won't buy an AP until I know it'll be balanced off by a good room deal.

I think Disney really wants people to use their Packages. So....that's what I'll do! Once I'm there, I'm not going to know the difference anyway - and, hey, I won't have to struggle with that silly finger-scan that never works!

So, this is how I'm adjusting. I will not cancel my trip. I will not stop going to Disney 2 times a year. AP or no AP....I'm getting a good deal and I'm going to have a fantastic time.

I don't think I DESERVE a good room deal for being an AP holder, but, much like Disney, I'm out for me. If I get a better deal without the AP, I'm going for it. If I find that I'd get a better deal with the AP, I'll buy them again. Simple as that. You can't plan an entire trip on the premise that you're going to be offered some fantastic discount. You can't buy a huge house on the premise that you'll somehow get a better job in a month or two. Yes, it's a disappointment and nobody faults anyone for being disappointed, but you can't blame Disney because they chose not to offer as much as you think they should have. Lots of people got great rates. And you missed out. As the great saying goes, "That's the way the cookie crumbles." Now it's time to get over the disappointment and decide how you're going to salvage what will probably be a magical vacation.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Excellent post AllyandJack!!!

 

[Geoff_M]

Let's look that the "business reasons" issue here for a moment. I think people here all too often think we represent "average" WDW guests. We don't (most of us anyway). If you take a poll here as to the percentage of active DIS'ers that are AP holders vs. the percentage of AP holders that walk through the gates at WDW on any given day, I think you'd see are large disparity. My guess is that if 2% of the people at WDW are there on APs, that's a good day.

So, let's say you're a Disney marketing person. You have occupancy rates that are too low and it's pinching your bottom line. You decide to look at two different options to increase the income at WDW:

1) Offer lots of rooms at steep discounts to AP holders.

2) Offer generous packages to the general public.

Option 1:
Pros: The AP group likes to visit WDW more than the average family. There will be a good number of people that will decide to make an addditional trip to WDW that wouldn't have otherwise after the deals are announced. This will generate more business for the resorts, restaurants, and gift shops.

Cons: You have to give the AP group steep discounts at the resorts. They get into the parks for "free", therefore there's no incremental income for one of the biggest income categories in your business (gate admission). So you're taking somewhat of a double hit: Lowered resort income, greatly lowered gate income.

Option 2:
Pros: The population that qualifies for the packages is MANY times greater than the population of AP holders. Even though AP holders usually make more visits to WDW in a year, the number of people likely to purchase the package deal is probably a lot greater than the incremental traffic from AP holders who will be inticed by the resort discounts that would not come otherwise.
Unlike the AP holders, those that purchase the packages will add significant $$$ to the coffers through the purchase of the UHPs (enven though they're discounted).

Cons: The popularity of the packages will restrict the number of rooms available for the AP discounts. This is certain to alienate a segment of the AP population that's become used to abundant room discounts during the lengthy business slow-down at WDW that's taken place over the last few years. But this will be muted somewhat by the fact that AP holders can still realize tremendous saving when it comes to gate admissions.


I don't think it's a stretch to think that the "package-centric" model will result in a higher incremental income for Disney. Even if all the AP holders get ticked at Disney and walks away, given the relatively small population this represents, the response from the package deals should more than make up for the loss.

As a former AP holder, I think WDW's reduction in the number of AP discounts available is a "bummer", but I wouldn't feel "cheated", "shorted", etc. The year we had AP's we were money ahead on the first trip since we were there 8 days. We decided to use them again 11 months later and saved over $1,000 in admission costs alone. The resort discounts were just the icing on the top.

 

[FredS]

Originally posted by RescueRanger
Nitram, I am sorry for your troubles. Hulabird, you are right in more ways than you know. AirForceRocks and others like you... stay on the debate board or get a life. These people have paid their money to Disney and therefore have a right to complain. When you buy there passes for them, then you can tell them what to say or not to say. No one appointed you the Disney Police. If you don't want to hear "complaining" or "whining", just skip the thread. Seriously, your reasoning and others is getting very tiresome.

Rescue Ranger, Hulabird, Nitram, bsears, etc. I agree totally. I am glad to see that the few trolls (which I define as those who go from thread to thread with the primary purpose of antagonizing) haven't stopped the vast majority from utilizing this board to share the joy (and the occasional frustration! ) that is Disney. Nitram -- PLEASE do not let the very few bad apples spoil this board and stop your interaction. Again, learn the wonders of "ignore" and you don't have to deal with even seeing their posts.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

I am glad to see that the few trolls (which I define as those who go from thread to thread with the primary purpose of antagonizing)...

How is just disagreeing antagonizing?

 

[AirForceRocks]

I'm curious about that too, Miss Jasmine.

 

[jiminyfan]

As stated in a few of the posts the times are a changing. We have been AP holders for many years and used it to our benefit. Before that we did the packages as they made the most sense. I remember doing the Gold Key Packages and by the end of the week the calculations showed that for the room and admission to the parks I paid $275 for 7 days. We ate and played enough to make up for all but the $275. GREAT DEAL.

With the change in philosophy by Disney, we will have to re-think how we are going to visit WDW. The past 3 years we have done 2-3 trips averaging 10 days per trip. As AP holders we got more than our money's worth out of the passes and the Resort AP deals. This year I will be having 40 days on my AP pass ($9.42 a day for admission using current prices, but I am not sure what I paid as I purchased the vouchers at a lower price, so it is even a better deal).

Now with out son getting to school age, we will probably be limited to one trip per year, so the package deals wil favor us.


Do I feel short-changed? Nope, I think that even paying a slight discount on rooms I would have made out with the cost of my admission. I cannot remember when I paid less than $10 a day to go to anamusement or theme park even the lower end ones.


Disney is by nature a great marketing machine and BIG business. As a stock holder (only a small amount), I definitely like them to make some $$$.

Easiest choice to make is not to buy APs if you do not feel they are worth it. There are thousands of other choices for your vacationa nd entertainment dollars.

Next year, we are doing a 2-3 week California trip and skipping WDW for the first time since 1991. I personally need the change and always wanted to see DISNEYLAND.

Hopefully everyone can get along no matter which side of the fence you are standing on with this issue.

<b> Remember, if this is your biggest concern in your life, you have one terrific life. </b>

 

[hulabird]

I certainly did not mean that some people could not post here. But I do feel that if one reads the title of a thread such as
" disappointed about AP rates", one knows it is going to be full of posts from people commiserating or " whining " about AP rates. I don't understand the need some people have to enter the thread and argue, sometimes quite rudely, about how other people FEEL.

Nitram's thread was titled "AP Holders get short end of the stick" or something like that. I am sure it made everyone curious, which I why I first read it. But it did convey that the poster was expressing some type of dissatisfaction pertaining to being an AP holder. If posters like AirforceRocks etc...don't want to hear anyone complaining, then they should steer clear of the thread! Common sense! If it bothers you that much, avoid it! Sometimes people need to just express their frustrations and vent, and they have the right to do that, but UNLESS they were talking about YOU or complaining about something YOU did, it's really none of your business and rude to flame them for their opinion. It is so clear that some of you just like to rouse a good argument and when someone said maybe you should go to the debate board for things like that, they were just trying to tell you that the debate board IS the place for that, not saying you could not post anywhere you want, but your constant attempts to undermine and flame the OP just proves you are looking for an arguement.

 

[DonnaS]

Warning: I am a CB poster and rarely post here, so feel free to tell me to go back to the CB where I belong. You can tell me that, but I'll do what I want.

Twice, I've bought WDW AP's, despite living way out on the left coast. I bought them because they made sense for how long I was going to WDW. I was never able to take advantage of AP discounts on lodging, but that didn't bother me. You see I realized that while that may be a perk, it is also a gamble as to whether it will benefit you when you decide to go. I did get about 19 days out of one AP though and that is quite a bargain IMO.

Being disappointed that you can't use the AP discount is one thing, but whining about Disney not appreciating loyal customers (and believe you me, I am a loyal customer-- just ask my pocketbook ) just because a potential benefit of the APs won't work for you is ridiculous IMHO.

 

[ripleysmom]

Just stepping out of my assigned area to complain that as a DVC member I resent being told that I am not as loyal as an AP holder. I guess my thousands of dollars invested and annual maintenance fees cannot hope to compare to the investment made in an AP.

And while we are whining......DVC members do not get a discount for their park admissions. You would think that with the amount of brand loyalty we are showing that we would at least get a decent discount on park admissions *sniff*

 

[Mike_in_FL]

I have read this entire thread with interest and have come to a clear conclusion - I don't think the two sides in this "discussion" are ever going to agree! Reading carefully, it seems that there were several unfortunate misunderstandings between posters which caused the tone of the thread to degrade, IMHO.

Where do I stand? My family and I are annual passholders and DVC members. We buy our passes primarily for the freedom to enter the parks multiple times a year, and they are a great deal for that purpose (oh, and the free parking, restaurant discounts etc that are included). Room discounts are a great perk when they happen, and I am happy to be able to take advantage of them. We make cash reservations in the summer at the Poly, and several times will add a night to our DVC stays. Without the discount, we would not do that. Would we be disappointed? Absolutely. Would we "blame" Disney? No.

I can understand people who have been used to the discounts being disappointed when they are not available. I also think that it is OK for them to vent a little on these boards and not have their motives questioned, or be called "whiners". That is a little insulting, is it not? I certainly don't think it qualifies as "just disagreeing". On the flip side, it is also OK for people to gently point out that room discounts are not guaranteed; after all, if you post you are inviting comment.

Now, can't we all just get along ?

Respectfully,
Mike

 

[FredS]

Hi, Mike:

I appreciate your thoughtful response. I think that it is in line with how many of us feel. The problem as I see it is from the previously referenced few who feel the need to troll, trying to fan any potential flames, and cause dissension by twisting what has been said.

The underlying area of annoyance for many AP holders is not that Disney did not offer any discounts, but that the discounts offered logically excluded AP holders due to the package nature, which included park admission, for which they have already paid. It is the element that because you paid for an AP you are being left out of discounts offered, not that you feel promised to always receive discounts.

It wasn't my original post, and it isn't even an issue I feel strongly about. However, I posted in response to the OP's vent (as I perceived it, NOT "whining") that I could definitely see their point and frustration. I became a little concerned at a response (not the ones who did simply point out that discounts were not guaranteed) but who I perceived as being deliberately antagonistic. I obviously was not the only one. Then I discovered and implemented "ignore" so I don't have to deal with them, but see that a few of the cronies have been recruited to join in the "fun". I still hope that their rudeness doesn't push away any who enjoy this board but feel they can't post because they may be the subject of this group's little game. Life is too short to be mean, especially about trips to Disney.

 

[Nuts4Disney]

Originally posted by Nitram
OK - I'm done. I let off some steam and I thank those of you who listened. Me personally, I have been to Disney a great deal, own stock (even after Roy sold 43% of his the other day), enjoy Disney parks and everything that goes with it. I doubt that I will post again, but I sincerely appreciate your letting me bring this to light and getting some feedback. At worst, I got one person upset, at best, I put a little balance in my perspective. I was not intending to offend, just felt upset. So, thank you and of course I will continue to monitor this fantasic web site as a great source for all things Disney!

WOW! I can't believe what I'm reading! I just have to say this!

I know I hold the "unpopular" opinion, but I have also noticed that MANY of the threads regarding ANY aspect of APs have gotten hijacked into an OT [off topic] debate of some sort. I was particularly surprised when I noticed this in the so-called "AP Watch Threads" where the OPs had to start new threads to post regarding AP room discount rate status because their threads were hijacked into debate. I can appreciate that some DISers are tired of reading threads about APs, because I also find certain threads monotonous, but I am just very surprised at what I have been seeing/reading here lately.

What surprises me even more is how this NEW DISer with his FIRST POST on the DIS being in his FIRST THREAD was treated. You may think I'm naive, but I did not/do not doubt the Nitram is a "legitimate" poster. Secondly, I am not saying that I think everyone has to agree with the Nitram, but I can appreciate why he would say that he may not want to post here again. It's a shame because I thought more of The DIS than this.

I have also wondered if this is the "new" way of The DIS since none of the Moderators have posted any objections here.

Nitram,

I'm sorry that this was your experience in your first thread & posts. I understand your frustration. I can't imagine that there's anyone who would "argue" that they have never been so frustrated by something that they didn't just need to vent. I would imagine that this being your Wedding besides a vacation would probably make the situation even more stressful. I hope you & your Bride-to-Be [this may be an awkward time for this, but CONGRATULATIONS!] resolve this very soon & have a Wonderful, Magical Wedding. And I also hope that you will stick around The DIS.

 

[hulabird]

Well said FredS

My point is mainly that if someone starts a thread with their main intention being to vent or express sadness or disappoinment, that is THEIR business. They started the thread, so in essence, it is their topic. What I don't understand is why the others involved here that we have been speaking of seem to be so offended by it? If they don't don't want to hear the whining as they rudely call it, why do they bother to post at all on the topic? In other words, what's it to them? What harm or hurt did it personally cause them? By them making some of the comments they made (and I also do not mean the people who pointed out in a nice way that the discounts are not guaranteed), they appeared to be here with the sole intention of creating an argument, plain and simple. What id THEIR statements do that really helped anything? All it did was turn this thread into a debate.

 

[hulabird]

Nitram, please don't let a few people make you leave the DIS. I did not see your post as "whining", and on the whole most of the people posting on the DIS are decent, helpful, wonderful people who all love Disney.

 

[~Sparkly~Zoe]

Buying an AP is better if you will be spending 8 days or more in the parks during the year that it's good for.

Now as for AP discounts on rooms, there is no guarantee of that and you want a really cheap room, then how about staying at one of the hotels near DTD? THey often have some great prices and you can still utilize your AP to it's fullest extent (which is letting you into the parks at least 365 days a yr) AND you will still be getting your money's worth. (plus that room discount)!

 

[mariamouse]

Wow! As a 14 yr. old avid DISer, I am shocked by the behavior of full-grown adults on this thread! Yes, the OP is wrong in many ways... AP rates are not guaranteed and people shouldn't fume when they don't get what they want... and yes, people who disagree with it have every right to voice their opinion... but why do so many of you resort to mean remarks and make the OP feel unwelcome? Don't get me wrong, I understand posters fully, I just think it's immature to not learn to ignore or stop posting mean things. Sorry to fume... it's just been bugging me since I joined this thread and started reading these debatable threads. Just my opinion... maybe as a teen my points are less valid?

mariamouse