Annual Pass Rumors??

[Ms Bibbidi]

I'm talking just about Disney. If it's NBD to you that's great, I don't share that sentiment. This isn't a game of finding what ifs about mortgage or other fine print out there (and I even said a waiver is not uncommon). I posted what I hadn't seen spoken about yet on this thread with the update and gave my thoughts on it. That is all.

Your info was an important find. I am appreciative that you shared it. I do respect your thoughts on it. It is infuriating sometimes to be a savvy consumer and to know that this is unjust. It is a burden to know that sometimes too. It is a big deal. Disney is being very heavy handed. I agree with you. It is a lopsided adhesion contract. It just lies there stinking in all of its unfairness. You and I both know that. Unfortunately we did see the terms and conditions and we know that. Knowing this, a choice must be made. I just fast forwarded through all of that analysis and shared my thoughts. Another respectable choice would be to refuse to buy one. Somebody else might buy one and try to sue. But, I do know there is no choice to negotiate.

I am with you, Mackenzie. I see the problem. But, I cannot fix it. So, I have to make a choice. How much is at stake here. Can I live with it. Can I still be happy enjoying the parks? Yes. I will continue being an AP. So, there you have it. If Disney starts adding too many blockout dates and I do not want to supplement with tickets, I will spend my time doing the many other things that make me happy. But I have paid my dues in life. I have done a lot of public service, worked for causes, charities, communities and helped many individuals. But I do not diminish the efforts of others who might want to do it. However, if I were to give advice on starting such an effort, well, you know my answer.

 

[whiteness]

I'm talking just about Disney. If it's NBD to you that's great, I don't share that sentiment. This isn't a game of finding what ifs about mortgage or other fine print out there (and I even said a waiver is not uncommon). I posted what I hadn't seen spoken about yet on this thread with the update and gave my thoughts on it. That is all.

Agreements that force consumers to forfeit the right to seek legal remedies in a court of law or join a class action suit should be illegal. Full stop.

I get why people hate lawyers and lawsuits. The system is ripe for abuse. Look at what's happened to the cost of home insurance here in Florida.

But just because some bad actors have exploited the legal system doesn't take away all the good it does protecting our rights. And individual consumers sometimes need the leverage that class action suits provide to take on massive behemoths like Disney.

I am so sorry that Disney has chosen to unilaterally decide for it's guests that they will no longer have the same access to the legal system to seek redress regarding the contract that Disney's lawyers created. Mickey's grinning mouth has some pretty sharp teeth.

 

[whiteness]

You mean like for Pfizer and Moderna?

And Tesla. A lot of employers do it to their employees, too.

If two parties have gotten together and decided that they will forgo access to the courts in favor of mediation because they feel they mutually benefit from that, then fine.

But that's usually not what's happening. One party feels it will benefit, and they have the power to force their will on the other side, irregardless if the other party will actually be harmed by agreeing to the condition.

That's inherently unfair, It exploits relative weakness. The government should step in and help level the playing field.

 

[SL6827]

We will never know just how many AP holders vs day ticket guest Disney will allow into the parks every day. I think this will follow into Disney World as well, but won't be nearly as difficult for AP holders there as it may be for those at Disneyland.

 

[whiteness]

We will never know just how many AP holders vs day ticket guest Disney will allow into the parks every day. I think this will follow into Disney World as well, but won't be nearly as difficult for AP holders there as it may be for those at Disneyland.

I think Disney is actually happy for Epcot to be packed with Passholders. It's a major dining and drinking destination, and I'll bet Passholder spend per diem is not that far below other guests in that park. Other parks maybe Passholders are relatively less desirable. But, to be honest, I find myself visiting Epcot more often by choice, anyway. I'll bet a lot of locals do.

There's no equivalent to Epcot on the West Coast (yeah, California Adventures tries. But...no.) If there were, I think West Coast Passholders would be less "undesirable."

 

[SL6827]

I think Disney is actually happy for Epcot to be packed with Passholders. It's a major dining and drinking destination, and I'll bet Passholder spend per diem is not that far below other guests in that park. Other parks maybe Passholders are relatively less desirable. But, to be honest, I find myself visiting Epcot more often by choice, anyway. I'll bet a lot of locals do.

There's no equivalent to Epcot on the West Coast (yeah, California Adventures tries. But...no.) If there were, I think West Coast Passholders would be less "undesirable."

Ya, APs probably do good for Epcot. I don't think it will hit DW as hard as DL, at first. Later on DW AP holders might see a change in availability.

 

[SL6827]

What if you owned a fixed week with DVC during Christmas and your AP couldn't get you into the parks at DW? Or, was all the APs blocked from Christmas before? Could this scenario happen during other holidays? Race event times? Could the park reservations for APs be fluid and change at any time?

 

[focusondisney]

What if you owned a fixed week with DVC during Christmas

I’m not a DVC owner, but I’ve never seen anyone say they own a fixed week. I don’t think that’s how Disney vacation club works.

 

[SleeplessInTO]

I’m not a DVC owner, but I’ve never seen anyone say they own a fixed week. I don’t think that’s how Disney vacation club works.

Some people own a fixed week via DVC. It’s sometimes referred to as a guaranteed week or favourite week. But DVC does sell fixed weeks.

 

[focusondisney]

Some people own a fixed week via DVC. It’s sometimes referred to as a guaranteed week or favourite week. But DVC does sell fixed weeks.

Thanks! I never heard that before.

 

[Mexacajun]

Thanks! I never heard that before.

You can actually look up hope many fixed weeks are sold per dvc resort. It isn’t common but also isn’t rare. In the monthly dvc sales numbers it is always listed. Dvcnews.com

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

The other throttles would be eliminating tiers, the speculated afternoon passes, and PRICE. They haven't used any of these yet in FL.

Did you read the terms and conditions on the MK renewals? Game changer. Forget the blockout calendars. They disclosed the bucket system. They could sell 1,000,000 annual passes and allocate only 100 park reservations per day to our bucket. Totally within their control. Winning a park reservation could end up with the same odds as winning a lottery.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

I know Mother’s Day was one and I have seen more. Most were last fall and winter.

There was a Dream Key. The new set of renewals do not include the Dream key.

A dream key at WDW? Hmmm.. never saw it

 

[New Mouse]

Did you read the terms and conditions on the MK renewals? Game changer. Forget the blockout calendars. They disclosed the bucket system. They could sell 1,000,000 annual passes and allocate only 100 park reservations per day to our bucket. Totally within their control. Winning a park reservation could end up with the same odds as winning a lottery.

Those terms wouldn't hold up in court, especially if they aren't advertised heavily.

 

[RoseGold]

They could sell 1,000,000 annual passes and allocate only 100 park reservations per day to our bucket.

I mean, I would say they would never sell a more expensive pass and then allocate nothing in the bucket.

But that's pretty much exactly what happened in California.

I go off peak, I'm pretty sure a Pixie Dust would work for my needs, actually. So, I think I will be Ok. But I do feel for people paying more for these passes, when the plan is this obvious.

The other workaround would be the resort guest reservations. I'd be great with an on-site only pass, which may be where this is headed. Maybe for all the passes.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Those terms wouldn't hold up in court, especially if they aren't advertised heavily.

The reality in today’s legal system is it would bankrupt most passholders to find out if the courts would honor those terms and conditions or not. Courts tend to favor contractual language and by buying a pass, the passholders are agreeing to the contract with this language. I think the language is so severe and one sided that it is a gamble for Disney. But right now all the chips are on their side of the table.

Do the math. If they have 1,000,000 passholders at DLR times the average price of the average tier of pass sold there. Now add an estimated number of WDW passholders times the average price of an AP. I do not have enough exact numbers but I can see a billion or more at stake here. I could be wrong.

Playing with extremely rough numbers I have seen online —
DLR at a million MK passholders average cost of $600 each is $600 million.
WDW annual attendance at 60 million per year and the crowd is 1/3 passholders for 20 million entries per year. Average each passholder goes 20 days a year is — a million passholders at WDW. So, average cost of an annual pass at WDW is also $600 each (keeping it simple here) is another $600 million.

So, $600 million from DLR and $600 million from WDW is $1.2 billion in revenue just by having your lawyers come up with new terms and conditions. Write it up. Paper over how bad it is by lots of disclosures. In the law, making express disclosures is basically a get out of jail free card even if the conduct being disclosed stinks.

So, they wrote up the disclosures, hamstrung the passholders access to the courts and decided to give it a shot.

Truth be told, very few of the people walking through the gates will ever know about this or understand how much this stinks. Only if Disney goes crazy with blocking people will this ever get any attention.

 

[Liquidice]

Wow, I have to say if I were betting I would have bet that the Magic Keys would be going away at DLR especially after Chapek's comments on "unfavorable attendance mix". I'm pleasantly surprised that the MKs are being offered as renewals for existing keyholders - that is a good thing imho! It also reassures me that APs are not going anywhere at WDW. They may not sell new ones, but they will continue to offer renewals for at least the near term future. Just hoping Disney doesn't release increased pricing for APs at WDW before I renew my kids APs that are open to renewal at the end of August :crossfingers: lol

 

[SL6827]

I’m not a DVC owner, but I’ve never seen anyone say they own a fixed week. I don’t think that’s how Disney vacation club works.

They most certainly do have members with fixed weeks.

 

[SL6827]

Thanks! I never heard that before.

Right. Like others have said, its not nearly as common.

 

[imbelle]

Did you read the terms and conditions on the MK renewals? Game changer. Forget the blockout calendars. They disclosed the bucket system. They could sell 1,000,000 annual passes and allocate only 100 park reservations per day to our bucket. Totally within their control. Winning a park reservation could end up with the same odds as winning a lottery.

Bob did say he wanted to get into the gambling business. Guess passholders are the marks.