Annual Pass Rumors??

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New Mouse

DIS Veteran
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Jun 8, 2010
I used 30 days as a random test of cost. Three 10 day tickets in mid august came out to around $1800 with tax. That is 30 days. A 7 day ticket in October was $720.

My point is that the reason APs are not back is because they missed the price point low when they reintroduced them and the demand of APs and day ticket guests are too high. And they would rather fill the parks with day ticket guests than APs.

Your saying that $1700 would significantly reduce the number of AP.

So let me get this straight. Even though demand for their product is so high that they have essentially no hotel room availability the months of October, November and December; that they had to pause sale of almost every AP; that the rest of this month you cannot get a park reservation to MK; your argument is that they should not increase the cost of APs? And I wouldn’t limit this argument to only APs. Based on their statements it seems as if price increases are coming across the board.

It's not that demand is so high it's that availability is so low. It's artificially influenced demand that they have created by failing to staff properly.
 

Smugpugmug

DIS Veteran
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HopperFan

"It's a bug-eat-bug world out there, princess."
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
I used 30 days as a random test of cost. Three 10 day tickets in mid august came out to around $1800 with tax. That is 30 days. A 7 day ticket in October was $720.

My point is that the reason APs are not back is because they missed the price point low when they reintroduced them and the demand of APs and day ticket guests are too high. And they would rather fill the parks with day ticket guests than APs.

Your saying that $1700 would significantly reduce the number of AP.

So let me get this straight. Even though demand for their product is so high that they have essentially no hotel room availability the months of October, November and December; that they had to pause sale of almost every AP; that the rest of this month you cannot get a park reservation to MK; your argument is that they should not increase the cost of APs? And I wouldn’t limit this argument to only APs. Based on their statements it seems as if price increases are coming across the board.
A contradiction ⬆️ They would rather fill the parks with day guests than AP guests BUT the day guests can't get reservations the rest of the month, but AP can???

Every single AP can get reservations at the MK and all the parks every single day they are eligible for the rest of the month.

:confused3:confused3:confused3

Doesn't sound like Disney doesn't want APs ~ they could easily block them and move slots to the other buckets. What this says TO ME is that Disney is depending on APs to fill the parks. APs can opt to not come at all if they can't get a park they want - while regular ticket holders have to use their tickets so WDW can force them to the other parks.



MY OPINION ONLY ⬇️

This thread is full of lots of guessing, little to no facts and a lack of understanding on who holds APs and what their existence means to Walt Disney World. Disney doesn't offer APs for goodwill and the benefit of guests - no theme/amusement park does. They do it for the companies benefit. A big one is an upfront cash investment Disney can use as @Pooh's World stated. There are other benefits even though most don't seem to be able to see them. Proof at the moment is that APs can book any MK day in their ticket options for the rest of the month while day tickets and even hotel guests can not.

Disney offers APs for Disney's benefit and I would be shocked if they went away, especially WDW. Do they likely need some adjusting? yes, at both parks and we'd each have an opinion based on our own scenario. For 9 years I had an out of state WDW AP. For the last 6 years I have had a FL WDW AP. Either way I need hotels, dining etc. all those same expenses out of state guests have.

I do believe they messed up when they brought back the WDW AP and I expected something more like:

- Pixie Pass - exactly what I expected. This one is competing with Universal but with LOTS of block out dates that Universal doesn't have. That alone makes it's price point much higher than it looks.
- Pirate Pass - why? Def not worth the price when Sorcerer is not much more. Eliminate it and force those folks to Sorcerer.
- Sorcerer Pass - A great option for many including DVC. With such limited block out dates I would raise the price on this one and consider adding a few blockout dates. It isn't so much the price per day but the option to add in weekends and most holidays to your vacation gives this one IMMEASURABLE amount of additional value.
- Incredible Pass - No restrictions, not even the most peak times to go at the holidays. Perhaps they should have restrictions during holidays. With double the parks, more park reservations and available hotels I think the Incredible Pass has more value than a DL pass, so maybe even $1499-$1599 it is a deal.


It's not that demand is so high it's that availability is so low. It's artificially influenced demand that they have created by failing to staff properly.
Can't be said enough because the folks in the back "can't" hear it but YES, WDW has had a very slow re-entry because they simply aren't staffing it as they used to. They declare the parks are at/above 2019 capacity - HELLO THAT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE - but we can clearly see that they are not staffed at those levels. This impacts dining whether it's getting food out of at QS kitchen or availability/turnover of tables at TS location. This impacts ride efficiency, moving folks through the lines, loading, unloading and even if you add just a couple minutes to each load you slow those lines down. This impacts entertainment that draws thousands of people away from attractions.

I think most of it was deliberate because of all the money they have saved. Disney making profits is because they are spending less and guest prices have been increased. At some point the two clash and they need to be ready.

Right now there are TONS of open jobs at Disney, many with bonuses from $1000-$4500. Is no one really applying? Right now some entertainment is not back because of the difficulty they've had hiring those folks? I remember when that was a dream job with tons of applications. I think we have a lack of applicants and a lack of urgency on Disney's part because they are saving money. I do think we'll see some change when the DCP is fully in place and I look forward to them.
 
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Bibbidi_Boo

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2022
$1599 for a pass that still has blackout dates is kind of crazy IMO. I get that it's only Christmas-New Years, but still. And yes I bet the lawsuit had something to do with this decision.

Yes but also have to keep in mind how high the cost of living in CA is, that is going to drive the price up for tickets/passes.
 

Smugpugmug

DIS Veteran
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Yes but also have to keep in mind how high the cost of living in CA is, that is going to drive the price up for tickets/passes.
Yeah I get that. I was just shocked at the price despite there being blockouts. I'm not a local so I wouldn't buy this anyway.
 

Bibbidi_Boo

DIS Veteran
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Feb 4, 2022
Yeah I get that. I was just shocked at the price despite there being blockouts. I'm not a local so I wouldn't buy this anyway.

Im not local either but if lived in CA it wouldn't even phase me. The parks at that time of year are so slammed packed its not even fun.
 

HopperFan

"It's a bug-eat-bug world out there, princess."
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
Yeah I get that. I was just shocked at the price despite there being blockouts. I'm not a local so I wouldn't buy this anyway.
I'm actually surprised it wasn't higher. I would not be surprised to see the WDW Incredible Pass at the same price point with holiday blockouts, especially the Christmas weeks.

Overall I think the price/increases were quite reasonable and much better than I expected.

And discounted Genie+ ... PLEASE BRING THAT TO WDW.
 

Smugpugmug

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2022
I'm actually surprised it wasn't higher. I would not be surprised to see the WDW Incredible Pass at the same price point with holiday blockouts, especially the Christmas weeks.

Overall I think the price/increases were quite reasonable and much better than I expected.

And discounted Genie+ ... PLEASE BRING THAT TO WDW.
Imagine if they raised the highest pass to $2000 and still included the Christmas-New Years blockout. Ouch. I do think when APs return to WDW, they will get a price increase and maybe more blockouts. I don't think I would want to pay over $1200 for the Sorcerer's Pass (the one I have right now).

I doubt discounted Genie+ will ever come to WDW but we'll see. That would be a great perk (but not as good as after 4 Express that the top Universal AP gets).
 

HopperFan

"It's a bug-eat-bug world out there, princess."
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
That's what the Sorcerer Pass is...no Thanksgiving or Christmas dates.
I know.

And I think that the passes can be revamped as I said in my earlier post. Sorcerer could add some blocks and still have a huge value. Incredible Pass could add a Christmas block and still be a huge value. This would leave all space in the parks during those two weeks for day ticket guests only. Win/Win for Disney. DL has done it, I can see WDW doing it.

Imagine if they raised the highest pass to $2000 and still included the Christmas-New Years blockout. Ouch. I do think when APs return to WDW, they will get a price increase and maybe more blockouts. I don't think I would want to pay over $1200 for the Sorcerer's Pass (the one I have right now).

I doubt discounted Genie+ will ever come to WDW but we'll see. That would be a great perk (but not as good as after 4 Express that the top Universal AP gets).
Disney has no need for AP holders during the two weeks at Christmas. I think it would make more sense to block out Incredibles and raise the price BUT still keep at a perceived value point. Like they have done with DL. Make the Incredible like the new DL Inspire Key. Time it for when you move the Christmas Party Parade to the daytime slot.

I think the Sorcerer at the $1000 point would still sell well. It would be a value for folks only using it for two weeks say with two DVC trips and especially for those that want to do 3-4 shorter trips. More than that is a bonus.
 

Bibbidi_Boo

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2022
I'm actually surprised it wasn't higher. I would not be surprised to see the WDW Incredible Pass at the same price point with holiday blockouts, especially the Christmas weeks.

Overall I think the price/increases were quite reasonable and much better than I expected.

And discounted Genie+ ... PLEASE BRING THAT TO WDW.

The discounted genie isn’t that great. For MK maybe but bother other parks since you have to enter the park before you can get discount. So you lose that first booking opportunity.
 

HopperFan

"It's a bug-eat-bug world out there, princess."
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
The discounted genie isn’t that great. For MK maybe but bother other parks since you have to enter the park before you can get discount. So you lose that first booking opportunity.
I hear you but it's still a value for some who have larger families or rope drop to enter, and for those who decided to add it after they arrived and saw wait times.
 

RoseGold

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
A contradiction ⬆️ They would rather fill the parks with day guests than AP guests BUT the day guests can't get reservations the rest of the month, but AP can???

Every single AP can get reservations at the MK and all the parks every single day they are eligible for the rest of the month.
Sure, that's the artificial, temporary result of the pending lawsuit. They got rid of the AP blackouts after the lawsuit was filed.

Doesn't mean that the plan wasn't to create the fake blackouts, like they did in CA, hence the lawsuit. I would expect obvious throttling after the lawsuit, if Disney can do it, which the lawsuit says it can't. Thus, pending lawsuit on this exact issue.

I'm surprised the Incredipass came back at all.
 

Bibbidi_Boo

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2022
I hear you but it's still a value for some who have larger families or rope drop to enter, and for those who decided to add it after they arrived and saw wait times.

It will work better at DL anyway since both parks are so close . WDW needs a better genie perk if they are going to get one.
 

Smugpugmug

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2022
Disney has no need for AP holders during the two weeks at Christmas. I think it would make more sense to block out Incredibles and raise the price BUT still keep at a perceived value point. Like they have done with DL. Make the Incredible like the new DL Inspire Key. Time it for when you move the Christmas Party Parade to the daytime slot.

I think the Sorcerer at the $1000 point would still sell well. It would be a value for folks only using it for two weeks say with two DVC trips and especially for those that want to do 3-4 shorter trips. More than that is a bonus.
I do think all passes will get a price increase when they come back, so no use in arguing that. I do mini trips throughout the year when visiting my parents in Florida so the Sorcerer's Pass works out for me in that regard.

But like others have been echoing on here for a while, what DL does doesn't necessarily mean it will happen in WDW. It's just a waiting game at this point.
 
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Ms Bibbidi

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2022
Warning. This post may contain speculation, conjecture or opinions.

I am turning cartwheels with the Magic Key renewals at DLR. Joy! It could have been soooooo much worse.

  • Remember those are renewal prices. They are probably discounted from the "new" pass prices. For example, their lowest tier was selling for $399 new. That's our Pixie. However, our renewal price for a Pixie is $339. Now their price listed for renewals went to $499. So that's an increase of $160, not $100.
  • Still, the price increases are nowhere near what might have been justified with our outrageous inflation going on. Their employee payroll has to be much higher. Housing costs in the area of both WDW and DLR are extremely high.
  • Disney kept its promise that they would offer renewals during the renewal window (sans the converted ticket MKs which have already expired -- but call for renewal).
  • Disney has stated WDW new sales were paused until sometime in 2022. So, maybe they will keep that timetable for WDW too? The sales window might be very short if they have capped the number of outstanding annual passes at both parks.
  • Except for an obvious minor change of having the top key block 11 days at Christmas/New Year's it appears most everything else remained the same. That is a huge surprise and very good news.
  • They added a Genie+ discount that was not there before.
  • It is hard to tell on parking. Did they tighten up parking benefits on the lowest tier at DLR? If they did that is a concern.
Great job, Disney. I'm sure there are a lot of MK holders who are happy campers today!
 

HopperFan

"It's a bug-eat-bug world out there, princess."
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
Sure, that's the artificial, temporary result of the pending lawsuit. They got rid of the AP blackouts after the lawsuit was filed.

Doesn't mean that the plan wasn't to create the fake blackouts, like they did in CA, hence the lawsuit. I would expect obvious throttling after the lawsuit, if Disney can do it, which the lawsuit says it can't. Thus, pending lawsuit on this exact issue.

I'm surprised the Incredipass came back at all.
That is rumor and guesswork.

Folks are suing because they don't want to abide by the park reservation system they agreed to.

Blockouts and Park Reservation Availability are not the same thing.

There is no such thing as fake blockouts. You could argue for manipulated park reservations which is a better argument.

Disney made a big mistake in selling APs before they could build the capacity/staffing at the DL parks.

They must be very comfortable with the lawsuit outcome if they are again selling APs.
 

Ms Bibbidi

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2022
I just noticed something curious. DLR's MK top tiers of (now historical Dream Key), Inspire, Believe and Enchant are all available to anyone. Only their lowest tier Imagine key was and is limited to Southern California zip codes.
 
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