An end to tipping?

[WowLookAtThat]

A tip isn't a courtesy. It's the waitstaff's salary. You might not like that that's the way the industry is set up, but it is.

In addition, if you don't tip because the waiter is doing something you feel isn't servile enough, you're costing them money on top, as they're taxed on the assumed tip that you didn't give them.

The talking to your child wasn't you, no, it was another poster who had a similar list of reasons to deny a tip, I was combining them; didn't mean to imply they were all you. You did say if waiters are standing around talking though.

You seemed to miss the part where the bad attitude of the waiter came in. Sorry to interrupt a conversation but when someone asks something within the job requirements it is probably not a good idea to roll eyes or give attitude when someone asks for something. Just because the waiter was in a bad mood that day why did I have to be treated badly because of it?

Once again as I have stated, waiting tables is basically a customer service job and while I don't expect someone to snap at my request I do expect some common courtesy. It sucks when a waiter isn't tipped highly for good service however when a waiter is rude or ignores a customer the tip is little to nil. I knew that my service was based on the customer so I tried not to be rude because of that. Why should anyone pay for bad service?

 

[Albort]

A tip isn't a courtesy. It's the waitstaff's salary. You might not like that that's the way the industry is set up, but it is.

In addition, if you don't tip because the waiter is doing something you feel isn't servile enough, you're costing them money on top, as they're taxed on the assumed tip that you didn't give them.

The talking to your child wasn't you, no, it was another poster who had a similar list of reasons to deny a tip, I was combining them; didn't mean to imply they were all you. You did say if waiters are standing around talking though.

i dont understand. a tip is a courtesy, if u do your job well, u deserve to get paid well from it.

doesnt a waiter claim how much tip they received for the year, and then they get tax on what they claim?

ive only not tipped once. We sat @ the restaurant for 20 mins without a server coming by to get our orders, then asked 4-5 times to get drink refills. Now if the servers know that tips are mandatory, what would make them work hard?

 

[cornflake]

You seemed to miss the part where the bad attitude of the waiter came in. Sorry to interrupt a conversation but when someone asks something within the job requirements it is probably not a good idea to roll eyes or give attitude when someone asks for something. Just because the waiter was in a bad mood that day why did I have to be treated badly because of it?

Once again as I have stated, waiting tables is basically a customer service job and while I don't expect someone to snap at my request I do expect some common courtesy. It sucks when a waiter isn't tipped highly for good service however when a waiter is rude or ignores a customer the tip is little to nil. I knew that my service was based on the customer so I tried not to be rude because of that. Why should anyone pay for bad service?

For you, but plenty of us aren't taking someone's salary and charging them money because they rolled their eyes or sighed or whatever. I don't have that impulse.

Again, no one is saying actual bad service shouldn't downgrade a tip; your premise was that someone not immediately hopping to or talking to other waiters or whatever equals no tip, which to me just seems like looking for reasons not to tip, to feel powerful taking someone's pay.

I don't think I've ever not tipped at all. I've tipped less than normal because of bad service but that has to be actual bad service, not stuff not coming out in a timely manner or etc. No tip? I assume I'd have gone to a manager over whatever was that awful before it got that far.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You seemed to miss the part where the bad attitude of the waiter came in.

I disagree that anyone missed the part where the server's perceived bad attitude or less than expected service came in. But according to this statement

I do tip however I only will when the service is good. If a waiter ignores me when I ask for a check or stands around talking with the other waiters and rolls his eyes when I ask for a clean spoon I am not going to tip.

you won't tip (at all?) for whatever you consider less than "good" service - even if the person greets you, takes and serves all your drink and food orders promptly and correctly - if they roll their eyes [even though that's the fourth time you asked for a clean spoon and the third time he personally washed and dried and inspected one before giving it to you]; or seem to ignore your request for the check even though they actually didn't hear you [naturally it wasn't because you snapped your fingers to him from across the room and yelled, "Check, please!"], or because something happened that delayed him getting your check to you. You did get it eventually, right? You didn't leave the restaurant without paying?

 

[cornflake]

i dont understand. a tip is a courtesy, if u do your job well, u deserve to get paid well from it.

doesnt a waiter claim how much tip they received for the year, and then they get tax on what they claim?

ive only not tipped once. We sat @ the restaurant for 20 mins without a server coming by to get our orders, then asked 4-5 times to get drink refills. Now if the servers know that tips are mandatory, what would make them work hard?

Is your salary a courtesy?

No, the IRS calculates based on the receipts from the server's or restaurant's sales, so they're taxed as if everyone has tipped. Hence if you don't, or tip low, they're paying tax on something they didn't get.

I don't know, what makes you work hard at your job? What makes anyone on salary work hard?

 

[WowLookAtThat]

I disagree that anyone missed the part where the server's perceived bad attitude or less than expected service came in. But according to this statement you won't tip (at all?) for whatever you consider less than "good" service - even if the person greets you, takes and serves all your drink and food orders promptly and correctly - if they roll their eyes [even though that's the fourth time you asked for a clean spoon and the third time he personally washed and dried and inspected one before giving it to you]; or seem to ignore your request for the check even though they actually didn't hear you [naturally it wasn't because you snapped your fingers to him from across the room and yelled, "Check, please!"], or because something happened that delayed him getting your check to you. You did get it eventually, right? You didn't leave the restaurant without paying?

In another post I stated "competent" that means doing the things you listed (serves drinks and gets the food orders right) I do tip but when there is bad attitude or service(when did I ever state that he washed the fork himself?) or we are ignored for a while (we waited for 10 min after requesting a check) then once again the tip is little to nil.

 

[cornflake]

In another post I stated "competent" that means doing the things you listed (serves drinks and gets the food orders right) I do tip but when there is bad attitude or service(when did I ever state that he washed the fork himself?) or we are ignored for a while (we waited for 10 min after requesting a check) then once again the tip is little to nil.

... Unless you were in a Burger King at the time, I hope you're kidding.

 

[WowLookAtThat]

... Unless you were in a Burger King at the time, I hope you're kidding.

I wish I was. It was a little restaurant near us. I understood that it was a little busy that night but ten minutes is a bit much.

 

[cornflake]

I wish I was. It was a little restaurant near us. I understood that it was a little busy that night but ten minutes is a bit much.

... I really don't even know what to say.

That goes beyond looking for reasons to be able to hold someone's salary over their heads into something else entirely.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't think I've ever not tipped at all. I've tipped less than normal because of bad service but that has to be actual bad service, not stuff not coming out in a timely manner or etc. No tip? I assume I'd have gone to a manager over whatever was that awful before it got that far.

A group of us who worked together used to go out to eat once a month or so. How well or poorly do you think four middle-aged women in business casual attire would tip? Well, frankly - but one memorable waitress didn't realize that. She had three tables: a couple she apparently knew, a table of four men in suits, and us. Guess which party got the short end? The oddest move she made was to remove one diner's appetizer plate while the woman was actively eating her app. She was moving a fork from the plate to her mouth and boom! the plate was gone.

We still left 15%. To the penny - something we'd never done before, including there; as I said, we tipped well. Why? Well, we got our orders properly (even if not for the whole time we needed them). She was easy to find when we needed something - either with her friends, or flirting with her other table. We got mediocre service, so we left a mediocre tip.

 

[Albort]

I don't know, what makes you work hard at your job? What makes anyone on salary work hard?

none, why work hard, im still getting paid at the end. Just do the bare minimum so you dont get in trouble. only thing that keeps me working hard at work are incentives, aka my tips.

 

[kaytieeldr]

In another post I stated "competent" that means doing the things you listed (serves drinks and gets the food orders right) I do tip but when there is bad attitude or service(when did I ever state that he washed the fork himself?) or we are ignored for a while (we waited for 10 min after requesting a check) then once again the tip is little to nil.

You didn't state that your server washed any silverware himself - whether it was the initial spoon, or the fork into which that utensil has now morphed . You provided your version; because your server isn't here, I was simply offering possible scenarios from his point of view. That's why I used brackets.

Ditto for the check. It's now even less clear. Did you ask for the check and it took ten minutes for your server to get it to you? Odds are highly against that being under his control, and human nature being what it is, having him approach your table without it every few minutes would probably have irritated you just as much.

Now, if it took you ten minutes to get his attention that's slightly different. But he still provided you standard service in a standard manner - and I don't see any justification for not tipping, or even reducing the tip, based on these two minor incidents - especially since the utensil keeps changing

 

[OceanAnnie]

It's interesting to read people's differing opinions on the definition of tipping.

 

[mom2of2]

seems to me that some are confusing servers with servants. ... tip however you want but don't make the server PAY for the privledge of serving you

 

[Albort]

It's interesting to read people's differing opinions on the definition of tipping.

To generalize, I see tipping as

Server --> tipping
Salaried --> bonuses
Hourly --> incentives

U work hard, u get more. U work less, u get less.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Merriam Webster:

Tip- a gift or a sum of money tendered for a service performed or anticipated : gratuity

 

[eliza61]

A valid point. Only flaw, people like you and I won't pay that adjusted price. Which is at the center of the whole Made in America versus Made in China debate. That's why American made products are rare, and everything is stamped "Made In China"

But I think that is more of "conditioning" and we see that mind set turning around.

There is a growing population that realizes that "cheap" does not always equal "value". Furniture, cotton and steel are three industries that are making a comeback for being produced in America. My dh works in the oil industry (refining) and now many american refineries are recognizing that foreign steel is lower grade and what seems like a bargain really isn't. Same with cotton. Anyway I got off point.

Maybe it's because I live and hang out in NY but I see more and more consumers now paying the adjusted price for the better quality. Food is definitely one area where people are starting to realize that the high preservatives, processed food may be cheaper but it definitely taste worse and is generally not the healthiest thing for you. I long ago stopped buying corn feed beef, yep I'll pay the higher premiium to get locally grown vegetables and grass grazed beef.

 

[eliza61]

seems to me that some are confusing servers with servants. ... tip however you want but don't make the server PAY for the privledge of serving you

But in essence that is what a server does. No I don't ever treat anyone like a slave but for that 90 minutes I am in effect "hiring" a person to serve me.

Now another issue is that everyones standard level of compentant service is different.

I do tip on what I perceive is compentant service. For me that includes, attitude, speed, appearance (how often you show up) and knowledge. If you bring me my appertizer along with my entree, yes my tip goes down. You should know that there is a reason it's called an appertizer. If you don't collect the plates and I'm sitting there trying to eat with a table full of dirty plates, yep your tip has dropped. Minimum sevice at most gets you 12% out of me. I simply refuse to pay for shoddy service. I don't allow it from my hair dresser, from my mechanic (yes I have brought my car back if they dirty up my inside), from a hotel or any other person I am paying to serve me.

 

[mom2of2]

Appearance? As in how often they are at your table or what they look like?

 

[sam_gordon]

A tip isn't a courtesy. It's the waitstaff's salary. You might not like that that's the way the industry is set up, but it is.

Then roll the cost of the tip into the price of the meal if it is necessary. That's the point. If getting (at least) a 15% tip is required, increase all the meals 15% and pay the employees appropriately.