An end to tipping?

[compwiz1202]

Good Evening,

I'd never leave no tip, but 15% to me isn't for poor service. That is if you were satisfactory, but didn't acknowledge us beyond taking our orders and didn't come around other than when you had to bring stuff to our table to check if everything was OK and if we needed anything like refills, etc...

I would leave 20%+ for some conversation beyond the required, especially with my daughter, and refills before my glass is even empty.

10%- for rudeness, especially to my daughter.

I would probably not leave pennies unless it was not busy, but yet we were obviously being ignored.

I agree sometimes you have to be observant and know if it is truly the server's fault for bad service. I've seen restaurants that were busy, but I only saw one server for the whole place. They already only pay like $2.00-$3.00 an hour and they can't afford more than one server?!?!

Or if it is a food issue other than it being cold, then I doubt it was the server's fault.

Plus I think for any business, it's not how they handle the good times, but the bad times that matter. Even if something goes wrong, as long as the server acknowledges and explains, then I will probably still give a decent tip. But if they just act like they don't care then 10%-

I would never want the tip included in the price because then I have no recourse for poor service. At least now I can tip less for poor service. Why should I get poor service and then have to still pay 15% or whatever the increase will be more? Thanks.

Matt

 

[kaytieeldr]

OK, so why does waitstaff need to be a tipped position? Upthread it was mentioned about how they work with the public. SandrA gives some prime examples of others who work with the public but aren't tipped. Is it simply "because that's the way it's always been done"?

At the risk of this thread being closed: because in 41 states and commonwealths in this country, the legislators have set the minimum wage for servers at about 1/3 the minimum wage for most other jobs (and where the state doesn't have a minimum wage, the Federal minimum is used).

The expectation by the government is that the difference will be made up via tips. If you want to start somewhere higher than the DIS with your campaign, go see your state and federal elected officials. Change - this change - has to start at the top.

 

[Acklander]

OK, so why does waitstaff need to be a tipped position? Upthread it was mentioned about how they work with the public. SandrA gives some prime examples of others who work with the public but aren't tipped. Is it simply "because that's the way it's always been done"?

One is serving the masses and one is serving the individual. And yes, because that's the way it's done.

What do you have against it? Just because you feel guilted into leaving a tip when someone gives you good service? If you don't like the system, just go to counter service places. Easy peasy. If you want someone to wait on you, pay them for it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The point is the customer shouldn't need to feel guilty about something OPTIONAL.

I don't have any facts to determine how much you'd need to increase prices to bump up employee salaries. But let's say tipped employees currently make $2/hour (to keep the math easy). You have a server, cook, bartender, and busboy. So it costs the owner $8/hour. Let's say you want to get them to $10/hour. So now you need to make up $32/hour.

How many tables does a server work in an hour? Four, six? I really don't know. Let's say five. Now, those five tables average $30 between them. Now you need to put up another $32... just over $6/table. Funny... if the tables average a $30 meal, bumping those meals up another $6 is the 20% people are saying you should tip.

My numbers may be WAY off. I have absolutely no basis.

First, I'm not letting the customer off the hook. The customer goes to the full-service restaurant knowing that tipping is customary/standard in the United States. I'm going to go a little off the 'script' and say, "If you don't want to tip or don't believe in tipping, don't go out to eat."

Now for your numbers: I don't believe turnover should come into play in the calculations at all; but I do think your numbers are way off. Why? Because nobody considers the additional payroll costs, the additional insurance costs, the additional SS and Medicare costs, higher FUTA and SUTA...

While we're at it, could you provide links to posts where cooks are included in the tip-out process? My entire life, among all the restaurant people I've known and in my own experience - and it's a pretty long life - I've only known one cook to get tipped...and that was directly by the (drunk but pleased) customer.

I've never heard of a server having to tip out a chef/cook. Those jobs rarely deal with the customer, and they're paid well - at least, much better than the servers!!

 

[kaytieeldr]

That's not what anyone is advocating. People are talking about the "good" servers leaving if tips became truly optional. But let's look at today, right now. An average to below average waiter... someone who greets you, takes your order, gets it right, but has no personality, just does the bare bones to get the job done EXPECTS you to pay them more money. Why? As Eliza (I think) said, if I just do the bare minimum in my job, and I go to my boss at the end of the year and say "where's my 15% bonus"? What do you think he is going to say?

Think for a moment... WHY do you tip?

• Because the server doesn't get paid enough
• To make sure I get good service
• Because I'm expected to
• Because the server did a good job and I want to thank them

I don't know about anyone else, but most of my tips are because of #1-3. I'll occasionally get a #4, but that's rare. In my opinion, #4 should be the rule, not the exception.

I tip simply because it's part of the cost of dining out. Just like the sitter, the new dress, the gas, the wear & tear on the car (or my shoes if I opt for the little place on the corner). I'm paying the restaurant for the ambience, the actual food, and not having to prepare it myself. I will then tip the server for, well, serving me my meal.

If I don't want to pay for all that, I'll grab something out of the freezer. If I only want to pay for part of it, I'll stop in and get my meal to go. It's got nothing to do with being able or not to afford something.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I HATE tipping "because it's expected". What gives the server the right to expect me to pay him/her for doing his/her job? That's the employer's responsibility, not mine.

Yes, of course I tip. I understand that the servers are being paid based on the expectation that I will leave a tip, and that isn't their fault, nor is there anything they can do to change it. I still think that's outrageous, dishonest, and cheap on the part of the owner/employer. I'd be perfectly willing to pay slightly higher prices to have tipping disappear...

See my response to Sam, above. Take it up with your state legislature.

I'm curious, since you brought it up: how much more would you be willing to pay? What percent, since individual item prices vary.

 

[SandrA9810]

I wasn't talking about servers tips. I was talking about every other position where there is a base pay of minimum wage or above. Fairy godmothers in training at BBB, barbers at the barber shop, the housekeepers at the resorts, the bellhops at the resort.
I was just as much a direct impact on a guest's experience as any of those other position. So what makes them special enough to get a tip, other than it's the norm in America?

Yes, more than once I was given a tip based on making a day special for a guest. And i had to directly tell management and turn it over.

 

[oswaldtherabbit]

The whole concept of this thread is ridiculous!

If you have a problem tipping a server...go to a buffet! If you have a problem tipping a bell hop...carry your own luggage!

 

[metalis4ever]

I tip all the time

Restaurants I start at 20% and go from there the lowest I will go is 15% unless the server was exceptionally horrendous then I may go down to 10% but that is extremely rare...I've tipped as high as 40% but those few occasions were because the server made the meal that much more enjoyable...

For my morning coffee when I go to Honey Dew it's $2.07 and I always leave the 93 cents, always. When I go to Dunkin Donuts my coffee is like 1.97 or something but I always leave $1.00...I budget my coffee at $3.00 a day and I'm ok with that

I tip all the time, my DW thinks I over tip sometimes and has to put her hand on my arm so I don't tip when it's unnecessary. For example I've even tipped at a Tourist Information Center.

I think it stems from spending so many years working in the service industry and being so under-appreciated that now that I am in a position to show my appreciation for the service provided I gladly over tip.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't think what teachers, firefighters, policemen, etc get paid adequately for what they do. But people get paid what the market decides.

And the American market has decided that tipping is customary.

I agree with a PP that this discussion is kind of strange. If you don't want to tip, don't do it.

 

[Arielle22]

At the risk of this thread being closed: because in 41 states and commonwealths in this country, the legislators have set the minimum wage for servers at about 1/3 the minimum wage for most other jobs (and where the state doesn't have a minimum wage, the Federal minimum is used).

The expectation by the government is that the difference will be made up via tips. If you want to start somewhere higher than the DIS with your campaign, go see your state and federal elected officials. Change - this change - has to start at the top.

A federal law, Fair Labor Standards Act oversees what jobs are exempt or non exempt. It also defines non exempt tipped positions. What many people think are tipped positions are not under the FLSA.

 

[tvguy]

Anyone here work in tipped position?

I have never met a tipped worker who wishes they were salaried. With tips, their earning potential is almost limitless.

Granted, most servers don't work 40 hours a week, but most good servers I know can make $30 or more an hour after tip sharing on a good night...far more than I make in my "professional" job requiring a degree and 37 years experience.

 

[SandrA9810]

California is one of those states that has to pay minimum wage, even when tips are involved.

I see no wrong in showing a monetary appreciation for some one that goes above and beyond their duty/job. A tip is a great way of saying thank you. It should, by no means, be expected of some one doing their job. Companies should pay their employees based on overall performance of their job, just like any other industry.

In my position as a photographer, it was great to have some one want to thank me personally like that. It means I went above and beyond and made an impact on them. However, I don't think a server just doing her job should get more compensation just because.

There's a small increase in food prices, but not much out here. I don't think there would be an overall significant increase in menu prices to put a business out if they paid servers a full wage. On top of that, a tip would only be given in an exceptional circumstance.

 

[elainesj]

I would support a mandatory tip/service charge. Many people were saying that food prices would soar astronomically to make up for servers not getting tips. If there was a mandatory 15-18% service charge, it will take away a lot of the guesswork. Do it like the Carnival cruiseline - if someone is really unhappy, they can have it removed.

If 15% is expected for average service, why not just make it mandatory?

I would sooner complain to the manager and have things resolved to my satisfaction if I'm unhappy vs stiffing a waiter of his wages.

Honestly, I had no idea 18-20% was the expectation until I started coming on the Dis! Here in Canada, I've always been told 10-15%. At least, that's what I understand anyway as tipping is still a little weird to me as I didn't grow up here. The nuances of tipping has taken me a long time to learn (through much reading on the Dis LOL) and I still don't understand so much about it.

Also, it will reduce the times when servers get stiffed. My friends went on a cruise some years back with every intention of paying their expected tips. With the chaos of the last day, they left the ship without tipping. They're not used to tipping at all and completely forgot.

 

[cm8]

I voted yes.

 

[DeaverTex]

See my response to Sam, above. Take it up with your state legislature.

I'm curious, since you brought it up: how much more would you be willing to pay? What percent, since individual item prices vary.

If it's the state legislature, then that's the place to take it. It's certainly not the servers. By the way, I don't think that they'd make a lower overall income if "mandatory 15%", or whatever percentage, were replaced by higher salary.

How much more would I pay? As a rough guess, 15%, more or less. That's still a fairly neutral tip, and I almost always leave more unless service had been bad. Then I may well leave 10% or even 5%. I rarely just stiff a tip entirely because unless the server did something insulting (for instance) they at least brought me my order, even if it was wrong. If the server does a crummy job, then it's MY job to take it up with management, assuming that for whatever reason I can't handle it directly with the server. Heck, like a PP, I have no problem with generously tipping a server who's made a major mistake, as long as he/she acknowledges it and does what can be done to make it right.

I have to emphasize that I have NO problem with tipping. I've been known to tip up into the 30-40% range for truly superlative service. The problem I have is with tipping being considered mandatory because otherwise the server is grievously underpaid. Sure, I can just stiff server, but that is SO uncool, now isn't it?

 

[Skywalker]

10%- for rudeness, especially to my daughter.

Matt

Restaurants I start at 20% and go from there the lowest I will go is 15% unless the server was exceptionally horrendous then I may go down to 10%

Wow seriously, people are still tipping 10% for rudeness and exceptionally horrendous service? Tipping?? We have really gone off the deep end, lol.

 

[metalis4ever]

Wow seriously, people are still tipping 10% for rudeness and exceptionally horrendous service? Tipping?? We have really gone off the deep end, lol.

Well as far as rudeness I've tipped 2 cents before when the server was rude to my DW and I. We're what one would call an "interracial" couple and she said some racist things so I gave her my 2 cents I doubt she was intelligent enough to connect the dots on that one....I've also tipped zero when a server refused to attend to my buddies and I because we were wearing Metal shirts, it was at an Applebees before a concert so we're not talking a high class establishment here. The server's Manager made her do her job and serve us. She got a 0.00 tip as a thank you.

But yeah everyone has a bad day and horrendous service meaning the server doesn't check up on me, doesn't refresh my drinks, etc... then I still give 10%....But 9 times out of 10 I give at least 20%. At WDW I usually tip around 25 - 30%, last time I ate at Jiko was one of the times that the service was so exceptional that I tipped 40%.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Wow seriously, people are still tipping 10% for rudeness and exceptionally horrendous service? Tipping?? We have really gone off the deep end, lol.

I don't tip for rudeness. That's just not going to happen.

Additionally, this tipping thing, beyond waitstaff has really expanded IMO. Sometimes it seems everyone is in on it.

 

[mom2of2]

As a server here's my take on it. Servers don't set the prices and have no say in who they have to tip out or even how much they have to tip out. Tip out in my location is on sales. I tip 15% to my food runners and 2% to my bartender. All I ask is that I don't PAY for the privledge of waiting on my guests.

Personally I'd like tips to be included with guests having the option to leave more if they so chose. That's not going to happen in my location since guests complained that servers didn't give them good service anymore because they didn't have to "work" for it.