Am I the only one annoyed by the "free upgrade" happening?

[TenThousandVolts]

Is it actual rooms or the rooms that the number of points in the inventory can fill for a given time frame.

It is not the actual rooms that CRO rents- they can place anyone in any room at check-in- they can place members in unsold units and CRO guests in sold units.

 

[Doctor P]

I don't have a problem if Disney wants to offer upgrades with the CRO rooms, but they should be preassigned rooms and not to "premium" locations (I assure you that MS knows by requests what are considered prime locations). For a start, I would assign all or most of the previously designated smoking buildings to CRO--it will be a long time till they get the smell out of those rooms. I know they would not be on the top of my list for a stay even if they are in a good location.

 

[Anthony1971]

According to what has been posted if I reading correctly and doing my math correctly than Disney owns about 20% rooms of the rooms at SSR.

So the resort may be busier but my guess is it will be only 15%-20% busier than if the upgrades were not offered.

Since it is the slow season I would imagine the resort will still only be at 40%-75% capacity.


Am I missing something?

Linda these resorts are suppose to always run at close to or full capacity if they only had 40% occupancy a lot of people would loose there points much less a 20% without upgrades. A slow season yes.. what the actual number is?? but I am fairly certain it would be higher than this.From reading your posts you seem to be a prime family to buy DVC if you run the numbers you will find that a studio at a DVC resort will cost you less than one at the values most times of the year (maybe all I did not go that far) You can also use your points to saty at Moderate and Deluxe resorts not the best use of points but cheaper than paying cash.

My thoughts
I hope Disney does get some new members out of this...
I would also hope that they do value its members requests as if a large number of members do not get something close to waht they requested or at least some part of it met I think there will be some bad feelings... I am in a Two BR at OKW in Septmeber --I like the slow season-- It is a dedicated and should not be affected.. the busses may have more people... That is fine I know how to get around this as I have stayed here before as most do.......
I have no bad feelings I have NEVER been upgraded at disney and I stayed on cash for 10+ years on my own my wife has been ther with here parents and on her own since 1972... I do not know what they could have been upgreded to back then but.....
Wish i was one of thise people getting upgraded..
Again my concern this time would be getting my request we are taking my wifes parents and brother MIL can not walk that well and BIL does have a disability as he broke his hip and walks with a limp -- however he will not even get a handicaped parking pass for his car so I did not let MS know why I wanted to be were I want to be so I will call and do so......which is not something I in general am concerned about in SEP as I can wait...if I want that location bad enough..
Whne it all boils down to it Disney should do something to make its members fell a little specila durning that period as well aftre all if this is for marketing we amy buy more points and we are the word of mouth... as I stated I do not feel Disney owes me anything but making us feel special would be nice.... Give us free cleaning every third day....and some of the bad feelings go away for some people

 

[Sammie]

Remember, if you want to restrict the non-members to the physically unsold units, you would also have to restrict members to the "sold" units...wasn't Carousel completed and sold before Grandstand?...so the non-members would be in the NEW Grandstand section, and members would be filling up Carousel...what many consider a fairly undesirable section of the resort. You can't have it both ways.

Now Chuck here you go again clouding up this very emotional discussion with facts, you bad boy.

 

[BroganMc]

Remember, if you want to restrict the non-members to the physically unsold units, you would also have to restrict members to the "sold" units...wasn't Carousel completed and sold before Grandstand?...so the non-members would be in the NEW Grandstand section, and members would be filling up Carousel...what many consider a fairly undesirable section of the resort. You can't have it both ways.

My only question is where exactly is all the unsold inventory? Is Carousel sold out now?

I really wouldn't have a problem if Disney was putting upgraders in the unsold inventory, even if it means they'll mostly be in Grandstand. What would bother me is if an owner booked 11 months out, requested the Springs or Congress Park and found themselves in another section while the upgraders were given those rooms... solely by by virtue of who arrived at the Front Desk first.

Is that harsh of me?

 

[Chuck S]

My only question is where exactly is all the unsold inventory? Is Carousel sold out now?

I really wouldn't have a problem if Disney was putting upgraders in the unsold inventory, even if it means they'll mostly be in Grandstand. What would bother me is if an owner booked 11 months out, requested the Springs or Congress Park and found themselves in another section while the upgraders were given those rooms... solely by by virtue of who arrived at the Front Desk first.

Is that harsh of me?

But, again, your problem has nothing to do with the upgrades themselves, but the "Room Ready" Policy. After all, someone a DVC member rents to could arrive earlier than you do, and get a room in your requested section (and they may be paying even less than the upgraded person), another DVC member could arrive before you do and get a room in your desired area, a cash CRO renter (upgrade or not) could arrive before you do taking a room in your desired area, an Interval Internation trader could arrive before you do and take a room in your desired section, or an unpaid guest of a DVC member could arrive before you do. For instance, I often give a week as a wedding present. I fail to see why it makes a difference if the person is upgraded or not. Do you feel slighted if any of the other possible guests get a room in your requested area?

 

[BroganMc]

But, again, your problem has nothing to do with the upgrades themselves, but the "Room Ready" Policy. After all, someone a DVC member rents to could arrive earlier than you do, and get a room in your requested section (and they may be paying even less than the upgraded person),

The renter would be paying an average of $10 per point. For a weekday reservation that's $110 for a studio and $220 for a 1 bedroom. Even if they got the points for a low price of $5 a point, it would still be $30 more per night than the free upgraders getting those 1bedrooms for $89. Renters also do not get daily housekeeping nor free dining.

another DVC member could arrive before you do and get a room in your desired area,

Which is why I made the comparison between DVC owners and free upgraders. A DVC member is giving up the same thing I am to get the room (points, buy-in price and MFs). They also do not get daily housekeeping or free dining.

a cash CRO renter (upgrade or not) could arrive before you do taking a room in your desired area,

And if they paid the going CRO rate, they'd be paying 2-3x as much for the room. I think that denotes a higher level of service as far as dining and housekeeping goes.

an Interval Internation trader could arrive before you do and take a room in your desired section,

And had to buy their own timeshare, pay their maintenance fees, and in many cases traded a 2bedroom for a 1bedroom or studio. Do they get daily housekeeping? I didn't think so. I know they have to pay an additional "Activity Fee" in addition to their II booking. And no they don't get free dining or even the DDP.

or an unpaid guest of a DVC member could arrive before you do. For instance, I often give a week as a wedding present.

Which means the DVC member used their money to pay for the timeshare as well as the MFs. If they want to also give their guest daily housekeeping and comp their DDP, then that's another out of pocket expense.

I fail to see why it makes a difference if the person is upgraded or not. Do you feel slighted if any of the other possible guests get a room in your requested area?

Since CRO inventory is supposed to be the leftovers at the resort, I guess I'd raise an eyebrow over a non-point guest getting their requests filled before members. The only mitigating factor is if they paid rack rate or near rack rate which is substantially higher than my costs as a member.

Now those getting the entire shebang (room, dining, housekeeping) for a lowball Value price of $89 a night, yes I'd feel slighted if Disney also gave them the same room preference as members. There's a reason they call them Value resorts and why DVC does not allow members to use points in them. DVC resorts are supposed to be upgrades worthy of long term investments. But if anyone can get in them for value prices and get better services, where's the worth?

Yes, the "Room Ready" policy is what highlights the issue of member vs. nonmember treatment. That's why some of us have also made our voices heard reflecting a change in policy.

Beyond that, my ill-feelings dwindle down solely to a question of how cheap will Disney undersell my home resort?

 

[Sammie]

Beyond that, my ill-feelings dwindle down solely to a question of how cheap will Disney undersell my home resort

I don't believe they will undersell your home resort for less than the going cost of points there.

As to what they will sell "their" section of that resort, is their concern. Basically it sounds like you need to have a timeshare they is strickly owner owned, because surely you knew when you bought in, that Disney controlled a portion and could if they wanted to give those rooms away, and have.

There are many things that go on at Disney and DVC that not everyone is privvy too. For example Oprah was allowed dogs in the Grand Floridian, a Saudi Princess was allowed goats for fresh milk, VIPS stay at all resorts including DVC and get special treatment.

Truly if you are going to worry about what others get that you don't, you are going to really make yourself unhappy.

There are many perks that DVC gets, AP discounts, valet parking and pool hopping that nonmembers do not get. I don't see anyone upset about that or feel that it is undeserved. And it has nothing to monetary investment.

Many members have low point contracts and have all the perks. While other frequent Disney guests spend thousands with Disney on a yearly basis and do not get those perks.

Yes, the "Room Ready" policy is what highlights the issue of member vs. nonmember treatment. That's why some of us have also made our voices heard reflecting a change in policy.

SSR does not use Room Ready for all their inventory, they do both. And the room assignment situation will still only affect members, not the nonmember guests.

 

[BroganMc]

I don't believe they will undersell your home resort for less than the going cost of points there.

A 1bedroom SSR room in late August goes for 25 points (weeknight) and 50 points (weekend). The same room in September is 20/41. The Value upgrade rooms are going for a rate of $89 a night. So if your presumption is true then Disney values the going rate of my SSR points at $3.56 per point. Um, that's cheaper than my yearly maintenance fees. How's that not underselling my resort?

As to what they will sell "their" section of that resort, is their concern. Basically it sounds like you need to have a timeshare they is strickly owner owned, because surely you knew when you bought in, that Disney controlled a portion and could if they wanted to give those rooms away, and have.

I believe we all bought with the understanding that the resort was member-owned with a small fraction held over for maintenance interests. CRO rooms were supposed to be used solely because members traded their points to stay at non-DVC resorts. The points traded would then be sold at CRO rates to recoup the expenses for Disney. How is giving away rooms for Value prices recouping value for anyone?

It's purely a decision to fill rooms at a time of year when CRO guests are low. The method chosen to augment CRO's coffers is by using the deluxe DVCs as overflows, regardless to what affect this has on members. So strictly speaking it is a DVC vs. CRO battle with members being the ones to cry foul first.

There are many things that go on at Disney and DVC that not everyone is privvy too. For example Oprah was allowed dogs in the Grand Floridian, a Saudi Princess was allowed goats for fresh milk, VIPS stay at all resorts including DVC and get special treatment.

We all know celebrities can get away with murder in this country. They can even get cushy private prison cells or paroled to multi-milliondollar mansions. But we're not debating Paris Hilton getting an entire OKW bungalow to herself. We're talking about CRO underselling rooms at a deluxe DVC just so they can sell more value rooms.

There are many perks that DVC gets, AP discounts, valet parking and pool hopping that nonmembers do not get. I don't see anyone upset about that or feel that it is undeserved. And it has nothing to monetary investment.

Some CRO guests do get upset about DVC perks. But then DVC members pay for their perks with a near-lifelong contract and thousands of dollars those same CRO guests wouldn't dream of paying.

SSR does not use Room Ready for all their inventory, they do both. And the room assignment situation will still only affect members, not the nonmember guests.

How exactly does Room Ready only affect members? The only room guarantees given are for room type (studio, 1bedroom, 2bedroom, GV, and HA). Location is a preference filled on a first come first serve basis. Unless they have a later check-in for CRO guests or have blocked out unsold inventory for them, then I don't see how all guests are not equal upon check-in.

 

[kritter]

We all know celebrities can get away with murder in this country. They can even get cushy private prison cells or paroled to multi-milliondollar mansions. But we're not debating Paris Hilton getting an entire OKW bungalow to herself. We're talking about CRO underselling rooms at a deluxe DVC just so they can sell more value rooms.


Did she really get an entire bungalow at OKW to herself??If soo good for her....

 

[minnie61650]

.....We're talking about CRO underselling rooms at a deluxe DVC just so they can sell more value rooms.
....

I would agree that CRO was underselling if Disney had offered the rooms at SSR or OKW at a discounted rate.
Disney did not offer anyone a discounted rate. They did however offer some guests who were already booked at a resort an upgrade.

Upgrades are different than discounts.

JMHO

 

[LuvsMainStreet]

Some CRO guests do get upset about DVC perks. But then DVC members pay for their perks with a near-lifelong contract and thousands of dollars those same CRO guests wouldn't dream of paying.

I am one of "those same CRO guests." I have not only "dreamed of paying" Disney thousands, I have actually done it. Believe it or not, some of us lowly value resort patrons have actually stayed at deluxes many times in the past, Some of us could even afford to buy a few hundred points of DVC. Shocking, isn't it?

I am happy for you that you receive perks for owning DVC. It brings me joy when other people get things that make them happy.

Why is it that you cannot just be happy that Disney did something spectacular for a few WDW guests? Isn't that magic part of the reason you bought into DVC in the first place?

 

[Sammie]

A 1bedroom SSR room in late August goes for 25 points (weeknight) and 50 points (weekend). The same room in September is 20/41. The Value upgrade rooms are going for a rate of $89 a night. So if your presumption is true then Disney values the going rate of my SSR points at $3.56 per point. Um, that's cheaper than my yearly maintenance fees. How's that not underselling my resort

Because regardless of how many times Chuck and I try to make this point, Those rooms are not DVCs. They are not selling DVC rooms. Simply think of those rooms as the same as if they had upgraded these guests to the Polynesian.

You truly have to understand it is completely too seperate organizations and situations, you can not compare the two.

If you as a member booked a room on points and were held to the point structure for SSR and another member was allowed to book the same room at the same time for less points, you would have a legitimate gripe.

In this situation you don't.

CRO rooms were supposed to be used solely because members traded their points to stay at non-DVC resorts. The points traded would then be sold at CRO rates to recoup the expenses for Disney. How is giving away rooms for Value prices recouping value for anyone?

Don't believe that is the case and never has been. How do you know what the rates are? Is it in writing that the rooms are to be sold at rack rates.

Simply because the guests at All Star are paying a certain amount are you sure there is no compensation between DVC and Disney resorts?

There is always a certain percentage of rooms at DVC resorts for cash reservations regardless if any members trade out.

But then DVC members pay for their perks with a near-lifelong contract and thousands of dollars those same CRO guests wouldn't dream of paying.

you are going to tell me that a 50 point contract is going to provide more money than someone that comes to the Grand Floridian and stays in a suite for weeks and has for years.

 

[BroganMc]

Did she really get an entire bungalow at OKW to herself??If soo good for her....

That bit is hyperbole. Given her name and family wealth, I'd imagine she has a private island all to herself, if wanted.

Usually when celebrities get accommodations to themselves they are footing the bill in some way. The only reason to give a celeb something free is if you think you can get free publicity out of them... hence all those jewelers and fashion designers offering up their wares to the Red Carpet stars. Even the Superbowl MVP got the infamous "I'm going to DisneyWorld" trip because he starred in a commercial for the resort.

I do believe Michael Jackson rented out DisneyLand for a day so he wouldn't be bothered by papparazzi and fans. Me? All I've ever seen is Davy Jones discreetly filming his family at the Pooh ride when he was there for a F&G concert appearance. (Poor guy probably thought I was snapping his photo when in reality I was just taking a pick of the ride queue and noticed this geeky guy with a badass HD camera. I'm a female geek so notice these things.)

But I'm digressing.

 

[BroganMc]

Perhaps Disney is offering these upgrades to help keep the DVC resorts near full capacity because the" resorts are suppose to always run at close to or full capacity if they only had 40% occupancy a lot of people would loose there points much less a 20% without upgrades. "

Huh? A resort is designed to "run at full capacity" because it is almost entirely member owned and supported.

The only way DVC members "lose points" is if they do not use them for bookings in the allotted time. They still have to pay the annual maintenance fees to support the resort. (Don't pay the fees and Disney repossesses the points to resell them to an owner who will pay.)

So what we're talking here is that CRO has an overflow problem at the values due to a popular pricing incentive used to increase park attendance during hurricane season. Their solution is to cut their rates for a deluxe resort (that just happens to be maintained via member dollars) and sell more of the value rooms. At the same time, they ignore the affect increased competition has at the Front Desks for these resorts or the extra demands on resort upkeep.

My guess is we won't know the full impact of this program until people start to check-in. Coincidentally, it is around that time that SSR is expected to be near sell-out. Who knows. Maybe they're banking on the upgraders buying up the last of the SSR points.

Why is it that you cannot just be happy that Disney did something spectacular for a few WDW guests? Isn't that magic part of the reason you bought into DVC in the first place?

Oh I am happy for you. You'll have a spectacular time. SSR is a beautiful resort I'm eager to share with everyone.

Don't misconstrue my unhappiness with Disney with any illfeeling toward you or any of the guests. I love Disney but I know they can do things better and sometimes do screw things up. Whenever you have competing divisions using supply for their purposes you can run into unforeseen conflict. In this case it is the CRO vs. DVC divisions and how the resort handles room assignments.

Keep in mind, as a SSR owner I've listened in on many member criticisms of the resort and have taken an active interest in seeing it improve. It's different then just renting a room. When I own something I feel more responsible for its upkeep and use.

 

[BroganMc]

Don't believe that is the case and never has been. How do you know what the rates are? Is it in writing that the rooms are to be sold at rack rates.

It's in writing that the Disney inventory is to be held for maintenance and CRO inventory to pay for member exchanges outside DVC. Call me crazy, but I expect they'd at least have to charge a rate commensurate with the current MF per point for members to fully support the resort.

Now SSR has more unsold inventory to play with, but how OKW got in the mix is beyond me. Unless Disney is using those ROFR and reclaimed contracts.

Or maybe they just figured they'd use all their Disney owned points to support the free dining promo and not hold those rooms in reserve the rest of the year. Somehow I kinda doubt that as rooms will go down throughout the year.

Simply because the guests at All Star are paying a certain amount are you sure there is no compensation between DVC and Disney resorts?

Not adequate compensation is what I'm alleging. If they can't recoup the maintenance fees on those ressies, then where do you think the balance due will come from for maintenance, housekeeping, resort staff, food supplies, etc, during that time span?

Or are you suggesting CRO is dipping into its other time of the year profits to cover the extra expenses?

you are going to tell me that a 50 point contract is going to provide more money than someone that comes to the Grand Floridian and stays in a suite for weeks and has for years.

No, but then are we talking the extreme cases used for hyperbole or the common cases? Disney currently doesn't allow members to buy less than 160 points in new contracts. The 50 point resales are the proverbial loose knot in the system. Are you telling me that something done outside Disney is the same as what Disney management itself arranges?

 

[drakethib]

Amazing.

For the last couple of years, there has been so much bashing of SSR because it was so "dull" and so "big".

Now, upgrades are being given out to some folks who are interested in buying DVC and SSR is now being guarded like Fort Knox.

Again, what the heck is the big deal. I have got between $25 - $30K invested (better yet spent and I ain't a rich guy) in DVC and I think upgrading folks is great. It lets them see what DVC is all about (other then the attitudes). More members, better perks.

Room assignments???, my God people, your at DisneyWorld, is a parking lot view that bad versus being at work?

MF's?, If DVC and CRO are 2 different business units, I would bet that there is an arrangements to cover the fees (mousekeeping, etc) for the upgraded guest. I don't know the rule book ( I think Doc and Dean are the gurus) but I believe unbudgeted additional expenses would have to be listed to all DVC members so I don't think anyone is trying to pull a fastone (but hey maybe I am wrong)

The next thread I bet we see is one about people complaining that a family staying at POR was upgraded to the MK Suite just because the won the YOMD contest.

When I go somewhere and get upgraded, I don't as any questions and am very thankful for the upgrade however it happened.

I go back to my previous post in saying should non-DVC member AP holders be upset with DVC since we get to buy our AP's at a healthy discount? DO we worry were the $100 discount is made up? Heck no, we take our discount and smile.

 

[Olaf]

Amazing.

For the last couple of years, there has been so much bashing of SSR because it was so "dull" and so "big".

Now, upgrades are being given out to some folks who are interested in buying DVC and SSR is now being guarded like Fort Knox.

Absolutely no contradiction. The people who seem to be the most upset about these upgrades appear to be SSR owners (yes, I know, there are some exceptions). Also, I don't think the upgrades are being given out to people who have expressed interest in DVC necessarily. I think it's just people who were booked at the values for free dining.

I'm not in the least bit upset about it. Quite the contrary. I'm very happy for these people. I look upon it as them having received a "Dream" prize.

 

[Anthony1971]

BroganMc brings up some good points... My question would be concerning the points memebers trade for cuises other disney resorts etc DVC will need to pay the respective company for the members use of....... These rooms (points) are then turned over to CRO for Disney to recover the money.
for example: I decide to use my points for a cruise each point is assigned a value thro MS and than MS must pay DCL cash for my cruise my member dues certianly do not cover as it is clearly stated where each dollar goes and if it did than other members would need to pay more.. so CRO needs to rent those points in order to recover what MS paid which would be in this case a loose for MS all the reasons stated in this thread...
On the flip side if MS was just transfering the points to CRO for how they want to use it then it would a loss for CRO and not MS however this does not make sense as as DCL CRO Trades with resorts outside Disney are involved....is CRO generous and selling these points and taking the loss? and paying MS whatever value it has assigned to each point or is CRO paying MS a smaller amount? I do not see how CRO can make a profit with free dinning the renting of a room and grounds that has a much higher overhead than value resorts and giving the house keeping that also is an extra cost as this staff needed will be far higher than DVC normal demand...
The only true answer can come from Disney but the point of this and what seesm to be the point of BroganMc is where is the LOSS coming from as this is... I do not see how they berak even with the guests satying at a value and getting free dinning much less paying that rate and staying at a deluxe...
this is nothing agaist thise who got the upgrade the question is are our memebr dues paying for it or who is taking the loss

 

[Chuck S]

A 1bedroom SSR room in late August goes for 25 points (weeknight) and 50 points (weekend). The same room in September is 20/41. The Value upgrade rooms are going for a rate of $89 a night. So if your presumption is true then Disney values the going rate of my SSR points at $3.56 per point. Um, that's cheaper than my yearly maintenance fees. How's that not underselling my resort?

So it is OK for DVC members to rent their points, taking profit from Disney, but it is not OK for Disney to upgrade from a value as a way of introducing & marketing DVC to young "value resort" families, even though Disney still OWNS those unsold rooms? I still don;t see your logic.

I believe we all bought with the understanding that the resort was member-owned with a small fraction held over for maintenance interests. CRO rooms were supposed to be used solely because members traded their points to stay at non-DVC resorts. The points traded would then be sold at CRO rates to recoup the expenses for Disney. How is giving away rooms for Value prices recouping value for anyone?

Again, this is true only at a fully sold resorts, SSR isn't fully sold, ans apparently there are also a number of OKW points available, so it is not longer fully sold, either.

It's purely a decision to fill rooms at a time of year when CRO guests are low. The method chosen to augment CRO's coffers is by using the deluxe DVCs as overflows, regardless to what affect this has on members. So strictly speaking it is a DVC vs. CRO battle with members being the ones to cry foul first.

Again, it is unsold inventory...there is no foul, they are Disney's rooms, not DVCs.

We all know celebrities can get away with murder in this country. They can even get cushy private prison cells or paroled to multi-milliondollar mansions. But we're not debating Paris Hilton getting an entire OKW bungalow to herself. We're talking about CRO underselling rooms at a deluxe DVC just so they can sell more value rooms.

Again, you may not like it, but they are Disney's rooms, not yours and NOT DVC's. It is unsold building inventory. They could give them away if they wanted.

Some CRO guests do get upset about DVC perks. But then DVC members pay for their perks with a near-lifelong contract and thousands of dollars those same CRO guests wouldn't dream of paying.

Actually, we don't "pay" for the discounts, they are granted as a courtesy, and can change at anytime. The only "perk" we may actually "pay" for is the free valet parking, since the valet wages are included in the common area resort agreement.

How exactly does Room Ready only affect members? The only room guarantees given are for room type (studio, 1bedroom, 2bedroom, GV, and HA). Location is a preference filled on a first come first serve basis. Unless they have a later check-in for CRO guests or have blocked out unsold inventory for them, then I don't see how all guests are not equal upon check-in.

Location is a request, not guaranteed. They did used to block and pre-assign rooms. The majority of members, myself included, would far rather be able to get into a ready room, if available, than have to wait for a specific unit. Disney listening to members IS a factor in room ready. And, again, the upgrades have nothing to do with it at all. Why should a family wait until late in the afternoon if a room is available? And truly, it sould have no impact on your reservations at all, as your HA room is pre-assigned through Special Needs. Since those rooms are pre-blocked, I don't see how room ready could even affect you at all.