Am I the only one annoyed by the "free upgrade" happening?

[Chuck S]

BroganMc brings up some good points... My question would be concerning the points memebers trade for cuises other disney resorts etc DVC will need to pay the respective company for the members use of....... These rooms (points) are then turned over to CRO for Disney to recover the money.
for example: I decide to use my points for a cruise each point is assigned a value thro MS and than MS must pay DCL cash for my cruise my member dues certianly do not cover as it is clearly stated where each dollar goes and if it did than other members would need to pay more.. so CRO needs to rent those points in order to recover what MS paid which would be in this case a loose for MS all the reasons stated in this thread...
On the flip side if MS was just transfering the points to CRO for how they want to use it then it would a loss for CRO and not MS however this does not make sense as as DCL CRO Trades with resorts outside Disney are involved....is CRO generous and selling these points and taking the loss? and paying MS whatever value it has assigned to each point or is CRO paying MS a smaller amount? I do not see how CRO can make a profit with free dinning the renting of a room and grounds that has a much higher overhead than value resorts and giving the house keeping that also is an extra cost as this staff needed will be far higher than DVC normal demand...
The only true answer can come from Disney but the point of this and what seesm to be the point of BroganMc is where is the LOSS coming from as this is... I do not see how they berak even with the guests satying at a value and getting free dinning much less paying that rate and staying at a deluxe...
this is nothing agaist thise who got the upgrade the question is are our memebr dues paying for it or who is taking the loss

Again, the upgrades come from unsold inventory. DVC gets nothing from the unsold inventory rentals. DVC only gets $$ to offset the rooms placed into CRO inventory when a member trades out. CRO likely sells that room at rack, or the normally available discounts (AP, FL Res, AAA)...there is nothing that says ALL CRO rooms at SSR are "upgrade" rooms, there are certainly some people paying regular rates also for the rooms turned over to CRO by DVC trades.

 

[Anthony1971]

Again, the upgrades come from unsold inventory. DVC gets nothing from the unsold inventory rentals. DVC only gets $$ to offset the rooms placed into CRO inventory when a member trades out. CRO likely sells that room at rack, or the normally available discounts (AP, FL Res, AAA)...there is nothing that says ALL CRO rooms at SSR are "upgrade" rooms, there are certainly some people paying regular rates also for the rooms turned over to CRO by DVC trades.

I am trying to understand this...not in a bad way
So what you are saying is these are the rooms or points that remain unsold at SSR that disney still owns?
If this is the case than who would be paying for house keeping and the man power needed to accomadate these guests?
also how does OKW come into play I do understand that Disney does retain... and also they do have points from ROFR...
It is just hard to see that the mebers would not be paying some part of this in an indirect way...
Now if DVC said they were paying X amount as a promotion expense it would make more sense.... as these expenses do not come from dues
No matter which way this is sliced $ should be transfered to offest the extra man power needed to support this..
If it is unsold invetory and DVC gets nothing than who is paying for the services?
Or is this like the famous line form Caddy Shack "you'll get nothing and like it"

 

[Janet Hill]

Haven't read the entire thread, but perhaps DVC, the developer is doing what other timeshare developers have been doing for years bringing in customers to sell to. The developer (remember all of these entertwined Disney entities are separate corporations), is perhaps footing the bill for the difference between what the guests are paying and the cost of staying in a DVC unit. The only difference is instead of a high pressure sales presentation, the DVC developer is hoping that the guests are overwhelmed by the ambience and just wonder right over to make a purchase.

I'm sure the folks being offered the free upgrade have been screened as possible purchasers (Disney does keep track of their guests travel history and spending habits). With AKV there is now lots of inventory to be sold. Even more if the the rumor of the Contemporary is true.

I'm only bothered because I can't go during free dining so there's no way I will even be offered the free upgrade.

 

[Chuck S]

I am trying to understand this...not in a bad way
So what you are saying is these are the rooms or points that remain unsold at SSR that disney still owns?
If this is the case than who would be paying for house keeping and the man power needed to accomadate these guests?
also how does OKW come into play I do understand that Disney does retain... and also they do have points from ROFR...
It is just hard to see that the mebers would not be paying some part of this in an indirect way...
Now if DVC said they were paying X amount as a promotion expense it would make more sense.... as these expenses do not come from dues
No matter which way this is sliced $ should be transfered to offest the extra man power needed to support this..
If it is unsold invetory and DVC gets nothing than who is paying for the services?
Or is this like the famous line form Caddy Shack "you'll get nothing and like it"

Any housekeeping and services needed by unsold inventory should be picked up Disney or the Developer Remember there is a dues subsidy that should cover that, OKW also received a dues subsidy this year.

 

[Anthony1971]

Haven't read the entire thread, but perhaps DVC, the developer is doing what other timeshare developers have been doing for years bringing in customers to sell to. The developer (remember all of these entertwined Disney entities are separate corporations), is perhaps footing the bill for the difference between what the guests are paying and the cost of staying in a DVC unit. The only difference is instead of a high pressure sales presentation, the DVC developer is hoping that the guests are overwhelmed by the ambience and just wonder right over to make a purchase.

I'm sure the folks being offered the free upgrade have been screened as possible purchasers (Disney does keep track of their guests travel history and spending habits). With AKV there is now lots of inventory to be sold. Even more if the the rumor of the Contemporary is true.

I'm only bothered because I can't go during free dining so there's no way I will even be offered the free upgrade.

This is certianly an acceptable answer.. However it seems that this is not that case??
I would like to know to what extent Disney keeps track or if they truly do... I know whne I paid cash always got a post card with an offer but this in general listed differnt levels for starting at.... and usually for around when I traveled which would not make a lot of sense as I have been going on the off season for a while... It is obvious they know I stayed at Disney and maybe when but I am not sure about anything else..
I would like to know the truth of this though...

 

[TenThousandVolts]

This is certianly an acceptable answer.. However it seems that this is not that case??
I would like to know to what extent Disney keeps track or if they truly do... ..

Disney asks when you call how many visits you have made to WDW. They also do surveys... If you do any vacation planning on disneyworld.com you can see your past vacations on there (I have used the site to make paymants on packages, set up ME... in the past) If I login there and go to "My Vacation" I can see my past 3 vacations (prior to my DVC vacations).

I was a 99% value resort person but a frequent guest of WDW (I would go about every 1-2 years) I started recieving DVC literature without ever requesting the info. It started with mailings, then I got the DVD- unprompted. I ended up buying in. I was very anti-timeshare before I learned about DVC. I tossed the first few mailings in the recycling with little more attention than a roll of my eyes. They wore me down.

 

[Anthony1971]

Any housekeeping and services needed by unsold inventory should be picked up Disney or the Developer Remember there is a dues subsidy that should cover that, OKW also received a dues subsidy this year.

Is the subsidy enough to cover the dues and the amount DVC will incur for the one service we do not get which is house keeping....
In other words was this part of the 2007 plan form day one and we upgrade x amount of rooms with house keeping at this cost... I know the true cost is less than what we would pay so we can not say 30 a day times 500 upgrades...
I just do not see how Disney can profit with free dinning and.......
I understand that rooms may all be unsold inventory but there is just such a small amount left and sometimes negative (depending on the amount of people in the room) after you take out the cost of the DP... Disney makes up for it by park admission and for the most part people spending more on??? because of the deal.they have a cushion DVC does not..
It just seems someone is taking a loss on this considering the higher overhead... unless disney is making up for this by booking the newly avialable value at full price and maybe using some of the house keeping employees from lower occupany cash resorts at SSR and OKW

 

[tasha99]

For DVC rooms rented out because a member went somewhere else, wouldn't it almost always be better to have the room rented, even at a discount, than sitting empty? Once the time has passed, an empty room can never be filled. So even at $89, if $9 goes for power and $20 goes for housekeeping, that leaves $60 profit. An empty room earns zero. I think if Disney thought they could fill the rooms at rack rate, they would do that instead.

As for the free dining, that seems like a separate issue to me since none of that would have gone to the DVC anyway. In a room with 4 adults, free dining saves the guest almost $160/day, though the real cost to Disney isn't $160 since they make a profit on that. They must figure the parks and the stores will recoup that loss overall. There will be people like me who don't buy a whole lot extra, but I think a lot of people spend the money they saved elsewhere.

 

[castleri]

Haven't read the entire thread, but perhaps DVC, the developer is doing what other timeshare developers have been doing for years bringing in customers to sell to. The developer (remember all of these entertwined Disney entities are separate corporations), is perhaps footing the bill for the difference between what the guests are paying and the cost of staying in a DVC unit. The only difference is instead of a high pressure sales presentation, the DVC developer is hoping that the guests are overwhelmed by the ambience and just wonder right over to make a purchase.

I'm sure the folks being offered the free upgrade have been screened as possible purchasers (Disney does keep track of their guests travel history and spending habits). With AKV there is now lots of inventory to be sold. Even more if the the rumor of the Contemporary is true.

I'm only bothered because I can't go during free dining so there's no way I will even be offered the free upgrade.

I believe I have read several posts that would indicate otherwise where the person posting has said that they have saved for years for a once in a lifetime trip and that it is the first time they have been to Disney. They also said they were really excited about the upgrade because this may be their only trip to Disney and they could never have afforded it without free dining. It does not sound like they would be in a database with indications that they might be prime candidates for a DVC purchase. I still think that they would have upgraded moderate reservations and then upgraded value to moderate if this was the case. It also seems that they would target people who have a more than just this trip history of going to WDW. Seems like a random selection process to me.

 

[Anthony1971]

Disney asks when you call how many visits you have made to WDW. They also do surveys... If you do any vacation planning on disneyworld.com you can see your past vacations on there (I have used the site to make paymants on packages, set up ME... in the past) If I login there and go to "My Vacation" I can see my past 3 vacations (prior to my DVC vacations).

I was a 99% value resort person but a frequent guest of WDW (I would go about every 1-2 years) I started recieving DVC literature without ever requesting the info. It started with mailings, then I got the DVD- unprompted. I ended up buying in. I was very anti-timeshare before I learned about DVC. I tossed the first few mailings in the recycling with little more attention than a roll of my eyes. They wore me down.

Sorry been out of the cash loop for a while
thinking about it
My last cash is when they had they have you visited before.....and it was yes or no
and the survey when you signed up for disney.com but never saw my history any where and I truly do not know if I would want to.. I moved up the latter first was a value then Moderate than deluxes period... But one year I did stay in a moderate after a long string of Deluxe and seeing POLY POLY POLY CSR would just eat away at me I guess this will work at getting people to spend more $ as well or at least me... But I will say most years we got a promotion like stay 5 days get two free or a discounted room only.....and my wife grew up going to the POLY as it was there or CR so years ago so.......you know how that ends and yes I will be one of those foolish people to use points to stay at the POLY at some point....

 

[Anthony1971]

For DVC rooms rented out because a member went somewhere else, wouldn't it almost always be better to have the room rented, even at a discount, than sitting empty? Once the time has passed, an empty room can never be filled. So even at $89, if $9 goes for power and $20 goes for housekeeping, that leaves $60 profit. An empty room earns zero. I think if Disney thought they could fill the rooms at rack rate, they would do that instead.

As for the free dining, that seems like a separate issue to me since none of that would have gone to the DVC anyway. In a room with 4 adults, free dining saves the guest almost $160/day, though the real cost to Disney isn't $160 since they make a profit on that. They must figure the parks and the stores will recoup that loss overall. There will be people like me who don't buy a whole lot extra, but I think a lot of people spend the money they saved elsewhere.

If the same rules apply to members and CRO that the points expire if not used.... I may not believe this to be true.. In any event CRO would have lets say two years to rent this room as if we can bank our points so can they if not they can have??? to rent the rooms as they own the points but it seems to be believed that these rooms are from unsold points not transferred points... In either case Disney would have to take the total pacakge profit into consideration and yes park admission should be included but even with this it seems unlikely that a profit can be made considering the higher overhead at a deluxe if these rooms were form transfers if the are form unsold then who is paying for the services ok there is a subsidy but is this our dues or dues plus house keeping...
This whole thing is about are the members paying and what is in it for Disney???? $ DVC sales maybe getting moer people to stay at Disney hotel rather than offsite and using thier kids against them for future trips

 

[ldo]

I thought maybe we were "selected" b/c we live in the NE and have young kids, go to disney every year, and have 2 disney hotel reservations during the upcoming year thru disney.com, and had requested a DVC video 3 years ago and then the newer DVC DVD recently. This was our 1st "Value" reservation, though.
But, I have NEVER gotten any special rates postcards or PIN codes before the upgrade. But last year, I started getting Disney Visa applications EVERY 6 weeks. So, who knows??

 

[tasha99]

Anthony1971, By time passed, I meant a room's potential income on a specific day can never be recovered once that day has passed. So if these rooms would have sat empty over the Labor Day weekend, then Disney was probably smart to put people in them and get some income rather than let them sit. I think that's true whether they're CRO rooms or DVC rooms (the profit could go towards maintenance etc if they were DVC). I'm all confused on how this works, but I'm pretty clear that even a little money is better than none. In a way, I think upgrading is better than selling at a low price, too, because as long as there is no pattern, the "perceived" value of the room would be maintained.

I hear ya about using the kids though. My son (8 last year) realized almost every ride exits in a gift shop. He was amazed by this, and a little thankful that I made him save his allowance on the months prior to our trip. He even asked me to stop giving him allowance this year because how could he not want to shop? If he loves OKW, I could see him getting on my case to save for a good hotel too (glad someone in the family is a saver).

 

[Anthony1971]

Anthony1971, By time passed, I meant a room's potential income on a specific day can never be recovered once that day has passed. So if these rooms would have sat empty over the Labor Day weekend, then Disney was probably smart to put people in them and get some income rather than let them sit. I think that's true whether they're CRO rooms or DVC rooms (the profit could go towards maintenance etc if they were DVC). I'm all confused on how this works, but I'm pretty clear that even a little money is better than none. In a way, I think upgrading is better than selling at a low price, too, because as long as there is no pattern, the "perceived" value of the room would be maintained.

I hear ya about using the kids though. My son (8 last year) realized almost every ride exits in a gift shop. He was amazed by this, and a little thankful that I made him save his allowance on the months prior to our trip. He even asked me to stop giving him allowance this year because how could he not want to shop? If he loves OKW, I could see him getting on my case to save for a good hotel too (glad someone in the family is a saver).

The problem with this is DVC is a timeshare in other words each room haa point value for each day in a year lets say it is 1 point. DVC will than offer for sale 365 (had to check that number) points if all points are sold than a member must occupy that room on any given day if it is emplty he will lose the point he owns. There are unsold rooms and there are rooms that are traded out it seems to be belived they are using unsold rooms for the upgrade... now being each point must pay an equal share or dues to offset the expenses so the unsold points dues are paid by the builder.. the problem is we do not get house keeping so where is this money coming from members would need to see a transfer of $ from Disney to cover this whne they explian or show us the numbers for why are dues are X. If these Points are from members trading out than CRO needs to recover what was paid to the other corporation as the members dues are still used for the resort period. So if they are using these rooms as the upgrade there is a loss.. there can be other varaibles such as is all the money CRO takes on transferred to DVC and there is an overage if this is so than one why not share some of it with the members two who gives up a profit....
so the bottom line money is coming from somewhere???
My child will only be 14 months on our next trip so I am not yet and yes he will save if he wants anything at Disney....

 

[Sammie]

I have a feeling if Disney had upgraded guests from the deluxe resorts that were overbooked,there would not be this hue and cry.

I am sorry to say if that is the truth there are more serious problems involved here than the upgrades.

 

[Doug7856]

If the same rules apply to members and CRO that the points expire if not used.... I may not believe this to be true.. In any event CRO would have lets say two years to rent this room as if we can bank our points so can they if not they can have??? . . .

From my point of view, I would prefer for Disney to use CRO "points" on nights that the rooms would go empty rather than use the points when members want to use the rooms (for example early December).

 

[Anthony1971]

I have a feeling if Disney had upgraded guests from the deluxe resorts that were overbooked,there would not be this hue and cry.

I am sorry to say if that is the truth there are more serious problems involved here than the upgrades.

Sammie

Personally I do not care as the truth is even if DVC is paying for part of this it is only a few cents... But some of the posts did get me curious as to where the $ is coming from and it would truly seem that this will have some $ attached that I am sure amounts to far less than actual members who break things in the rooms. I know this sounds contradicting but after all I am an accountant and I just need to know... I am truly happy that famalies are getting upgraded I remember well taking the boat to MK and looking at the POLY and saying I am going to stay there one day....My day came by luck of being able to afford and willing to pay...and i do realize both of the can change and do cahnge over the course of ones life ....

 

[3DisneyKids]

I have a feeling if Disney had upgraded guests from the deluxe resorts that were overbooked,there would not be this hue and cry.

I am sorry to say if that is the truth there are more serious problems involved here than the upgrades.

I agree with you Sammie, if the upgradees were coming over from a deluxe, we may not likely hear these complaints.

BUT...I don't think it is because of the PEOPLE....I think it is because of the dollar amount paid. There is a real concern here that upgrading those who paid $89/night to a 1 BR means that Disney is taking a loss. And if they are taking a loss at a DVC resort, that means the MFs are going to pick up the difference.

Now, if someone was pay $280/night at a deluxe and got moved to a 1 BR at SSR, then there at least would money from the reservation to cover the cost of the free DDP and daily mousekeeping.

This is just my thinking based on what I have read here. DVCers are repeatedly saying that it is not the PEOPLE, but it is the SYSTEM that they are frustrated with. And the reason they are frustrated with the system is b/c there is a preception that it may impact MFs. And as you know far better than I, if members thinkg that their MFs are involved, then oh yeah....we are going to hear about it on these boards.

 

[BWVNUT]

I agree with you Sammie, if the upgradees were coming over from a deluxe, we may not likely hear these complaints.

BUT...I don't think it is because of the PEOPLE....I think it is because of the dollar amount paid. There is a real concern here that upgrading those who paid $89/night to a 1 BR means that Disney is taking a loss. And if they are taking a loss at a DVC resort, that means the MFs are going to pick up the difference.

Now, if someone was pay $280/night at a deluxe and got moved to a 1 BR at SSR, then there at least would money from the reservation to cover the cost of the free DDP and daily mousekeeping.

This is just my thinking based on what I have read here. DVCers are repeatedly saying that it is not the PEOPLE, but it is the SYSTEM that they are frustrated with. And the reason they are frustrated with the system is b/c there is a preception that it may impact MFs. And as you know far better than I, if members thinkg that their MFs are involved, then oh yeah....we are going to hear about it on these boards.

Or if members who were already booked had been given the 1 bedroom upgrade from a studio or perhaps added the free dining - at least if the members got 'something' it might not be as bad...

 

[Chuck S]

I agree with you Sammie, if the upgradees were coming over from a deluxe, we may not likely hear these complaints.

BUT...I don't think it is because of the PEOPLE....I think it is because of the dollar amount paid. There is a real concern here that upgrading those who paid $89/night to a 1 BR means that Disney is taking a loss. And if they are taking a loss at a DVC resort, that means the MFs are going to pick up the difference.

Now, if someone was pay $280/night at a deluxe and got moved to a 1 BR at SSR, then there at least would money from the reservation to cover the cost of the free DDP and daily mousekeeping.

This is just my thinking based on what I have read here. DVCers are repeatedly saying that it is not the PEOPLE, but it is the SYSTEM that they are frustrated with. And the reason they are frustrated with the system is b/c there is a preception that it may impact MFs. And as you know far better than I, if members thinkg that their MFs are involved, then oh yeah....we are going to hear about it on these boards.

Since they are NOT DVC rooms, then DVC Dues are not impacted. Disney's loss (if there is one), does not translate into a DVC loss, as those rooms are NOT DVC rooms. The dining plan payment comes from Disney Travel, NOT DVC...so no DVC loss there, in fact, even the DVC version of the diing plan is operated by Disney Travel, that is why DVC has to negotiate to be eligible for it.

The other dues used by Developers Points are offset by a dues subsidy, as I said, both OKW and SSR got a subsidy this year...so there must be a sizable surplus of Developers Points. Again, no loss to DVC members.

Or if members who were already booked had been given the 1 bedroom upgrade from a studio or perhaps added the free dining - at least if the members got 'something' it might not be as bad...

DVC Rooms can not normally be upgraded, it would illegally throw the point system out of balance, in effect Disney would have oversold the resort. The cash room, once again, are NOT part of DVC member inventory, as they are UNSOLD point inventory, or rooms not yet declared as part of the DVC.