Am I the only one annoyed by the "free upgrade" happening?

[BroganMc]

Now, if someone was pay $280/night at a deluxe and got moved to a 1 BR at SSR, then there at least would money from the reservation to cover the cost of the free DDP and daily mousekeeping.

This is just my thinking based on what I have read here. DVCers are repeatedly saying that it is not the PEOPLE, but it is the SYSTEM that they are frustrated with. And the reason they are frustrated with the system is b/c there is a preception that it may impact MFs. And as you know far better than I, if members thinkg that their MFs are involved, then oh yeah....we are going to hear about it on these boards.

Absolutely correct (for me at least). Anyone thinking this is a have vs. havenot debate is just not getting it. The concern is all about the commensurate value placed on these rooms with an adjunct concern about competition for room locations.

I think if the upgrades were to studios people would also be less roused. The rooms are essentially the same with a little something extra to be worthy of a deluxe upgrade. Now I understand why the 1bedrooms are being offered up since they are usually the last to be reserved by members. Combined with the other freebies being given, it just tips the balance into unfairness.

It's the Prodigal Son story DVC style. The DVC members are the eldest son who lived and worked all his life with his father and the upgraders are the youngest son given the golden treatment (i.e. the fatted calf) in hopes he'll stick around. The eldest son can't help but feel undervalued. Doesn't mean he wasn't just as happy to see his kid brother again.

 

[Chuck S]

Absolutely correct (for me at least). Anyone thinking this is a have vs. havenot debate is just not getting it. The concern is all about the commensurate value placed on these rooms with an adjunct concern about competition for room locations.

I think if the upgrades were to studios people would also be less roused. The rooms are essentially the same with a little something extra to be worthy of a deluxe upgrade. Now I understand why the 1bedrooms are being offered up since they are usually the last to be reserved by members. Combined with the other freebies being given, it just tips the balance into unfairness.

It's the Prodigal Son story DVC style. The DVC members are the eldest son who lived and worked all his life with his father and the upgraders are the youngest son given the golden treatment (i.e. the fatted calf) in hopes he'll stick around. The eldest son can't help but feel undervalued. Doesn't mean he wasn't just as happy to see his kid brother again.

However, think of how many new DVC members they may get because of people staying in a one bedroom. Surely Marriott, Fairfield, and other resort routinely "give away" their units to promote sales...but you have no problem with that...so why is it a problem with Disney? I can't tell you how many $99 for 3 days offers I get in the mail for timeshares, as long as you go to a sales pitch. Disney has more class, no sales pitch required...the units sell themselves.

 

[BroganMc]

The other dues used by Developers Points are offset by a dues subsidy, as I said, both OKW and SSR got a subsidy this year...so there must be a sizable surplus of Developers Points. Again, no loss to DVC members.

Put that way then yes there shouldn't be a sizeable impact on the dues. The trouble is the room locations are not abiding by the unsold vs. sold inventory. Once a building opens, any guest can be placed in them. And rooms are assigned on the Room Ready/First Come First Serve basis at check-in. So while members may not be seeing an overuse of their dues, they will most likely be seeing use of their rooms.

It's a slightly different issue but that's the one that tips the balance in the scales. (In my Prodigal Son analogy it is the offering of the prized "fatted calf" that drives the elder son into ill-feelings.)

 

[BroganMc]

However, think of how many new DVC members they may get because of people staying in a one bedroom. Surely Marriott, Fairfield, and other resort routinely "give away" their units to promote sales...but you have no problem with that...so why is it a problem with Disney? I can't tell you how many $99 for 3 days offers I get in the mail for timeshares, as long as you go to a sales pitch. Disney has more class, no sales pitch required...the units sell themselves.

Because at Marriott I can book my exact unit and building ahead of time? I always know the promo guests are getting whatever room a member did not request first.

Can you say the same will happen at SSR and OKW?

 

[Chuck S]

Put that way then yes there shouldn't be a sizeable impact on the dues. The trouble is the room locations are not abiding by the unsold vs. sold inventory. Once a building opens, any guest can be placed in them. And rooms are assigned on the Room Ready/First Come First Serve basis at check-in. So while members may not be seeing an overuse of their dues, they will most likely be seeing use of their rooms.

It's a slightly different issue but that's the one that tips the balance in the scales. (In my Prodigal Son analogy it is the offering of the prized "fatted calf" that drives the elder son into ill-feelings.)

So, members should not be able to stay but in a handful of rooms in the new Granstand section at SSR, since that is where the unsold units are...even if they request it? I guess we members should say in the sold out areas, like Carousel, forget Grandstand until it sells?

 

[Chuck S]

Because at Marriott I can book my exact unit and building ahead of time? I always know the promo guests are getting whatever room a member did not request first.

Can you say the same will happen at SSR and OKW?

Again, since you book with Special Services, how does this affect you? There are a limited number of HA units, and chances are they are all filled by Members, and pre-blocked before any of the upgrade people are even in the system.

Special Services blocks an HA room when you reserve it. If you get a room that doesn't meet your needs, it is most likely because someone at Special Needs doesn't really know the layout of each and every HA room. If you know of a specific room tht does meet your need, ask MS to request it from Special Services when they block the room.

What happens at Marriott if your selected room isn't avaiable, perhaps due to a maintenance issue?

 

[JodyTG]

Here's a possible "silver lining"...............say a bunch of these upgraded folks decide to buy into DVC (which is probably the hoped-for outcome of Disney's "largesse"), a large surge of buyers could hasten the need for the next DVC!

CRV, DLV, anyone........................?

That's a great way to look at it Grammy! Talk about turning a frown upside down!!!

 

[BroganMc]

Again, since you book with Special Services, how does this affect you? There are a limited number of HA units, and chances are they are all filled by Members, and pre-blocked before any of the upgrade people are even in the system.

Because depending upon who you ask, Special Needs only blocks out a "type" of room and not the actual location. The location is done later by Member Services or the Front Desk.

On both my SSR stays it was the Front Desk who managed to fill my location requests, by fixing the mistakes Member Services made before I got there.

Since I need a specific class of room, my pool of available rooms is much much smaller. I run the risk of not getting my necessary room and having to change resorts because my type of room was already given out.

What happens at Marriott if your selected room isn't avaiable, perhaps due to a maintenance issue?

If I'm booking at a resort I own far in advance (10-12 months out), the resort calls me and offers me a choice of alternates. If I book through II, I call the Marriott resort 1 month out when they get the reservation in their system and block out the room. The only time I have a surprise is when the room goes down the day I check in or someone screwed up the room type (happened for the first time last trip).

Disney has yet to call me or tell me where the room was they blocked. In fact, no one seems to know until check-in day. This is why I can spend my entire day out and about then check-in later at Marriott, but at Disney I'm rising at dawn and packing like a madwoman so I can make a beeline for SSR's Front Desk. Way too much stress.

 

[mamatojon]

The cash room, once again, are NOT part of DVC member inventory, as they are UNSOLD point inventory, or rooms not yet declared as part of the DVC.

It seems like it would help to think of the cash rooms at each resort as a separate resort in and of itself. When you think of it that way, it doesn't seem like such a big deal. Nobody would be getting bent out of shape about Disney upgrading from a value to a deluxe (which has been done as well).

As far as room availability and meeting of member's requests, if the rooms are filled (via upgrades from any source or just simply cash paying guests) the likelihood that your requests are met is the same. The only way to have a better shot at your requests is to have these rooms sit empty, which is in no one's interest.

I'm really happy for those who were upgraded. I think it is awesome and in keeping with Disney magic and the whole dreams come true thing.

 

[DVC Grammy]

I just spent a while reading some of the posts on the resort board from those who did and didn't get those upgrades.

It made me smile to read how absolutely pixie-dusted and grateful most were! Maybe some will buy, maybe most won't, but it sounds as if this will be a vacation that none of them will ever forget!

How lucky we DVCers are to have this kind of vacation whenever we go!

(Of course, there are a few who whine about getting "only" a studio and not a 1-br upgrade! They're not DVC "material" anyway, are they? )

 

[3DisneyKids]

Since they are NOT DVC rooms, then DVC Dues are not impacted. Disney's loss (if there is one), does not translate into a DVC loss, as those rooms are NOT DVC rooms. The dining plan payment comes from Disney Travel, NOT DVC...so no DVC loss there, in fact, even the DVC version of the diing plan is operated by Disney Travel, that is why DVC has to negotiate to be eligible for it.

The other dues used by Developers Points are offset by a dues subsidy, as I said, both OKW and SSR got a subsidy this year...so there must be a sizable surplus of Developers Points. Again, no loss to DVC members.


/QUOTE]

Chuck, you must feel like a broken record at this point!

Yes, I know and understand that these are NOT part of DVC inventory.

However, what I still have not yet find out is whether or not Disney pays MFs on the rooms that are in their inventory. We know that DVCers pay dearly in dues. Does Disney pay a proportional amount in dues for the percentage of the resort that they own?

So far, no one seems to be able to answer this question.

 

[fishermouse]

Put that way then yes there shouldn't be a sizeable impact on the dues. The trouble is the room locations are not abiding by the unsold vs. sold inventory. Once a building opens, any guest can be placed in them. And rooms are assigned on the Room Ready/First Come First Serve basis at check-in. So while members may not be seeing an overuse of their dues, they will most likely be seeing use of their rooms.

It's a slightly different issue but that's the one that tips the balance in the scales. (In my Prodigal Son analogy it is the offering of the prized "fatted calf" that drives the elder son into ill-feelings.)

Although you are given a % of a room at closing, you bought points not a specific room or area so every room that is booked or not booked affects you the same. Can't understand the animosity toward folks who may be visiting WDW for the first and possibly only time enjoying what we enjoy several times a year. The % of rooms taken out of member inventory for whatever reason can be used however DVc wants. If there is a problem with the booking process (which I believe ther is) it has nothing to do with the upgrades. Keep in mind these upgrades amount to a very small % of inventory. A few of these upgrades are probably future DVC'rs and possibly Dis'rs.

 

[Chuck S]

However, what I still have not yet find out is whether or not Disney pays MFs on the rooms that are in their inventory. We know that DVCers pay dearly in dues. Does Disney pay a proportional amount in dues for the percentage of the resort that they own?

So far, no one seems to be able to answer this question.

AS to whether they pay on the small percentage they contractually retain, I don't know...however, developers points (unsold inventory) where most of these upgrade rooms are coming from, do in a sense, pay their share. It shows as a subsidy item on the budget. Both OKW and SSR had dues subsidies this year. SSR because of the unsold inventory, and a smaller subsidy at OKW because of points acquired through either defaults or ROFR. There seems to be a temporary glut of points available at OKW, as during our recent trip we had several calls informing us that points were available at OKW.

 

[fishermouse]

I believe I have read several posts that would indicate otherwise where the person posting has said that they have saved for years for a once in a lifetime trip and that it is the first time they have been to Disney. They also said they were really excited about the upgrade because this may be their only trip to Disney and they could never have afforded it without free dining. It does not sound like they would be in a database with indications that they might be prime candidates for a DVC purchase. I still think that they would have upgraded moderate reservations and then upgraded value to moderate if this was the case. It also seems that they would target people who have a more than just this trip history of going to WDW. Seems like a random selection process to me.

Based on what I know about Disney IMO nothing Disney does is "random" worst case Disney gets some really good publicity, best case they sell a small percentage of rooms because of this promotion. Maybe that one time guest tells a few friends who might book off site for their one time trip about the DDP and the free upgrade to a two room suite with whirlpool tub. Plus the magic Express, bus transportation, magic hours, all the benefits of on site lodging. Some kid that was going to stay at All Star gets a big room and great pools at SSR, the trip of a lifetime for some. And for us, well maybe we get to see BIG smiles on little faces, for me thats as good as a DTD view Looks to me like everybody wins.

 

[LuvsMainStreet]

(Of course, there are a few who whine about getting "only" a studio and not a 1-br upgrade! They're not DVC "material" anyway, are they? )

Oh yeah...because DVCers never whine, right?

 

[DVC Grammy]

Oh yeah...because DVCers never whine, right?

Of course not, silly...................

 

[Anthony1971]

From what I understand form all this is the developer is apying some sort of dues maybe not equal to ours maybe it is?

The problems are two if the dues are paid for...
1) House keeping this is something we do not get so where is the $ coming from.
2) Disney is making the $ (or not) on these rooms and potential abuse and normal wear and tear and who will pay for this IF it does happen?
--Also room requests -yes a problem with the system-- I know this was never a guarentee but being Disney is doing this so they can fill the more requested value rooms and we as owners can potential foot the bill for wear and tear it would be nice of them to consider us.

To make this clear I am not saying anyone upgraded will abuse a room - for that fact members should be held accountable for any damage they cause as well...My point is we do have an ownership interest and while we do not own the buildings and land we certianly pay the bill for upkeep and repairs. The point of this is yes we all should have an interest in what disney is doing..... If the subsidy is not enough to cover the dues we pay than they have no right to rent the unsold rooms out as them we are paying for some of the services the guests are recieving....
The bottom line is the have condo association meetings??????? why was this not mentioned or yet disclosed saying this will not cause the memebrs anything and potentially bring in more members.... FINE that is a good idea
It is a matter of having a little considreation for us that is it....

 

[Chuck S]

From what I understand form all this is the developer is apying some sort of dues maybe not equal to ours maybe it is?

The problems are two if the dues are paid for...
1) House keeping this is something we do not get so where is the $ coming from.
2) Disney is making the $ (or not) on these rooms and potential abuse and normal wear and tear and who will pay for this IF it does happen?
--Also room requests -yes a problem with the system-- I know this was never a guarentee but being Disney is doing this so they can fill the more requested value rooms and we as owners can potential foot the bill for wear and tear it would be nice of them to consider us

To make this clear I am not saying anyone upgraded will abuse a room - for that fact members should be held accountable for any damage they cause as well...My point is we do have an ownership interest and while we do not own the buildings and land we certianly pay the bill for upkeep and repairs. The point of this is yes we all should have an interest in what disney is doing..... If the subsidy is not enough to cover the dues we pay than they have no right to rent the unsold rooms out as them we are paying for some of the services the guests are recieving....
The bottom line is the have condo association meetings??????? why was this not mentioned or yet disclosed saying this will not cause the memebrs anything and potentially bring in more members.... FINE that is a good idea
It is a matter of having a little considreation for us that is it....

Read the POS. It is all in there, when Disney can use the rooms, etc. If you are upset about it now, you should have read the POS and asked questions before you purchased. This is nothing new, Disney has been "upgrading" to unsold inventory since the first year of free dining. It's been 3 years, hasn't it?

Disney has a credit card on file, just like for DVC members, in case of major room damage, along with name and address, in case they should need to file a legal claim.

 

[Anthony1971]

I am certianlly not upset about it..
I do understand what they can and can't do...
It seems to be on higher scale this year....
I have learned a few things here there is a subsidy but if that was higher because of or is this just dues or part of...
I have seen plenty of obvious damage including a bent patio door that would seem to have not been charged to somone as it was still there. I am sure you have seen far more problems than I....
To me this is nothing more than a discussion to find out.... and I said form the beginging the only true answers can come from Disney..and I do understand they have no obligation to give me the answer...

 

[castleri]

Read the POS. It is all in there, when Disney can use the rooms, etc. If you are upset about it now, you should have read the POS and asked questions before you purchased. This is nothing new, Disney has been "upgrading" to unsold inventory since the first year of free dining. It's been 3 years, hasn't it?

Disney has a credit card on file, just like for DVC members, in case of major room damage, along with name and address, in case they should need to file a legal claim.

How do you know there is a credit card on file? If someone booked the value resort and made all payments by check or money order there is no record of a credit card. They do of course have names and addresses so that should be sufficient if they need to contact the person staying in the room. Unlikely as it seems there are some people who still live in a pay as you go cash, check or money order world. My DD and SIL do not use credit cards at all while at Disney and do not have charging on the room key. They have a credit card but use it only in an emergency so Disney would have no record of their card number.

I don't think room damage is any more likely to happen from people who are upgraded than it is from any other CRO guests. renters, trades from II or members.