All The New Developments

[mom2rtk]

I would LOVE FP+ if I was able to travel solo, the problem is that I have to travel with two small, unpredictable creatures who love nothing more than creating confusion, delay, trouble and mayhem and who always mange to grind my perfectly prepared daily schedules to dust, usually by 10 am.

Good thing not many people headed to Disney have to deal with that sort of issue.

 

[MichiganDVC]

I would LOVE FP+ if I was able to travel solo, the problem is that I have to travel with two small, unpredictable creatures who love nothing more than creating confusion, delay, trouble and mayhem and who always mange to grind my perfectly prepared daily schedules to dust, usually by 10 am.

I hear ya! This is why I think FP+ is just a perk and not expected to be the ONLY way to access FPs or ride anything.
If more than 30% of daily FPs go to FP+, then there probably won't be enough in the park for effective use of "day-of" FPs. And I don't think Disney wants to create that type of atmosphere, especially for their biggest market: families with very young (and unpredictable) children.

I wonder if you couldn't "cancel" your FP+ the morning of and opt to regular FPs instead in the same park in the same day due to a sick kid, etc...?

 

[Rip]

That doesn't answer the question, though.

Clearly, POTC is not a Broadway show and yes, Newsies lasts longer. But neither of those things matter in this example. What does matter is the process. Whether I'm trying to see a 3 hour musical or go on a 3 minute ride isn't the issue.

If your point (from way back on page 17 / post 244) is that "It is an undeniable fact that FP+ will negatively impact those not wishing to micro-manage what rides they want to ride at a given time 2 months down the road", then I continue to ask ... how is the process of reserving tickets to a Broadway show two months ahead of time any more or less micro-managing than reserving a ride time at a favorite ride, two months ahead of time?

I need to do exactly the same thing. I go online, I reserve my spot, I show up shortly before the reserved time, and I take part in the experience. Both things are a reservation -- nothing more, nothing less. If you're saying that a 3 minute ride isn't as important as a 3 hour musical and therefore shouldn't be something you have to plan out that far in advance, then I would say, "depends on the ride." For some people, being able to guarantee that they can absolutely get a FP for a specific time instead of rushing to the FP machine first thing in the morning and hoping the timing is right ... that's absolutely worth it.

The more correct analogy would be my buying tickets to Disney 2 months in advance. I know I want to go to Disney, I just do not have the foggiest clue that far in advance which parks I'm even going to be in on any given day, much less the hour time frame I want to go on a 2 minute ride. I really can't believe you don't see the very big difference between doing something like a play or another major event and riding an amusement park ride.

 

[snykymom]

That doesn't answer the question, though.

Clearly, POTC is not a Broadway show and yes, Newsies lasts longer. But neither of those things matter in this example. What does matter is the process. Whether I'm trying to see a 3 hour musical or go on a 3 minute ride isn't the issue.

If your point (from way back on page 17 / post 244) is that "It is an undeniable fact that FP+ will negatively impact those not wishing to micro-manage what rides they want to ride at a given time 2 months down the road", then I continue to ask ... how is the process of reserving tickets to a Broadway show two months ahead of time any more or less micro-managing than reserving a ride time at a favorite ride, two months ahead of time?

I need to do exactly the same thing. I go online, I reserve my spot, I show up shortly before the reserved time, and I take part in the experience. Both things are a reservation -- nothing more, nothing less. If you're saying that a 3 minute ride isn't as important as a 3 hour musical and therefore shouldn't be something you have to plan out that far in advance, then I would say, "depends on the ride." For some people, being able to guarantee that they can absolutely get a FP for a specific time instead of rushing to the FP machine first thing in the morning and hoping the timing is right ... that's absolutely worth it.

OK, as a Broadway aficionado, and one who lives within shooting distance of NYC, let me see if I can explain the difference.

First, seeing a Broadway show is a self-limiting type of deal. If I see one show on a Tuesday night, for example, that means that I can't see any other show on that Tuesday night. They run at the same time and they're too long. And it doesn't matter if I want to stand in line or "fast pass" - I can only see one show.

Compare that to what has been previously understood at Disney: I can ride all of the headliners at MK in one visit, some via FP and some via standby. But when I walk into MK, I can vary the order in which I ride those rides. FP+ makes me choose. That's part of what people consider "micro-managing."

Then, consider Broadway itself. There are approximately 40 Broadway theaters operating today. Let's say only half of them are "lit" (have a show running) on any particular day. And let's not even count the off-Broadway or off-off-Broadway theaters that may have shows running.

There are probably 3 or 4 shows that sell out routinely, for which you must buy tickets in advance. If you're not dead-set on seeing one of those, you don't have to plan 2 months in advance. That gives you the option of seeing 16 or so other shows. If you haven't been to Broadway in a long time, odds are that there's at least one or two that you haven't seen and wouldn't mind seeing.

I've researched Broadway shows and decide to go down one weekend. I get into NY early and go stand in line at TKTS to get half-priced tickets. (No, this is not the same as standing in line for Space Mountain. It would be like standing in line to get a half-price MYW ticket, which many people would do.) I see what's available, decide what I want and buy my ticket. Or if I don't like what's available, I pick a show, walk up to the box office and pay full price for the show I want to see, assuming availability. Now, since I have several choices, I'm not disappointed if my first-choice is sold out.

However, I would be very disappointed if all 7 of my choices were sold out. That's unlikely. So I don't even have to plan until that morning (like day-of FP).

But it is likely to happen with the headliners at the 4 major parks, if I don't plan. And therein lies the biggest difference.

Deciding to go to Broadway is akin to the major decision of deciding to go to WDW. The rest is micromanaging.

 

[WDSearcher]

The more correct analogy would be my buying tickets to Disney 2 months in advance. I know I want to go to Disney, I just do not have the foggiest clue that far in advance which parks I'm even going to be in on any given day, much less the hour time frame I want to go on a 2 minute ride. I really can't believe you don't see the very big difference between doing something like a play or another major event and riding an amusement park ride.

Everyone is stuck on the "Broadway play vs. ride" thing, when all I was trying to do was speak to the "micro-manage" part of your post. So, ok ... go with your analogy.

I don't think planning a few rides a couple of months in advance is any more micro-managing than planning to buy your Disney tickets two months in advance.

"You can wait to purchase your tickets at the gate, right?" I say. "There's no real benefit to purchasing them ahead of time, so why purchase them two months out?"

"Well ... to save time when I get to the parks, of course," you say.

"OK ... so doesn't reserving the time you want to ride your very favorite rides at WDW also save you time when you get to the parks, since you already have a FP in hand when you arrive?" I counter.

And then you say ....

 

[Rip]

Everyone is stuck on the "Broadway play vs. ride" thing, when all I was trying to do was speak to the "micro-manage" part of your post. So, ok ... go with your analogy.

I don't think planning a few rides a couple of months in advance is any more micro-managing than planning to buy your Disney tickets two months in advance.

"You can wait to purchase your tickets at the gate, right?" I say. "There's no real benefit to purchasing them ahead of time, so why purchase them two months out?"

"Well ... to save time when I get to the parks, of course," you say.

"OK ... so doesn't reserving the time you want to ride your very favorite rides at WDW also save you time when you get to the parks, since you already have a FP in hand when you arrive?" I counter.

And then you say ....

Honestly, I think you're intentionally missing the point. If you really can't grasp the difference between planning a general vacation (i.e - where are we going, where are we staying) and deciding "do I want to ride POTC at 1135 on Tuesday, 2 months from now?" then I really can't help you. Most people can easily understand the very big difference in those two things.

BTW, I don't do ADRs either, in case you were going to bring that up next round.

 

[Rip]

Also, I purchase my park tickets at the same time I make my hotel reservation. That just means I know I'm going to be there, it doesn't force me into a given park for a given ride at a specific time. There literally is no comparison between the two. In addition, Disney tickets never go down, so it behooves you to buy your tickets once you know you're going in case they raise prices in the meantime.

 

[WDSearcher]

OK, as a Broadway aficionado, and one who lives within shooting distance of NYC, let me see if I can explain the difference.

First, seeing a Broadway show is a self-limiting type of deal. If I see one show on a Tuesday night, for example, that means that I can't see any other show on that Tuesday night. They run at the same time and they're too long. And it doesn't matter if I want to stand in line or "fast pass" - I can only see one show.

Compare that to what has been previously understood at Disney: I can ride all of the headliners at MK in one visit, some via FP and some via standby. But when I walk into MK, I can vary the order in which I ride those rides. FP+ makes me choose. That's part of what people consider "micro-managing."

OK ... but, based on your example, you have to choose which Broadway show you want to see on Tuesday night because you can't see two of them at once. If you want a top show, you have to choose well in advance, even though there's no absolute guarantee that once you GET to NYC, you'll still want to see that show. Broadway makes you choose. You buy your tickets two months out, but then say someone offers you tickets to something else you'd rather see, or wants to take you to dinner at a top restaurant. But ... sorry ... no go. You already have your show tickets and they're for a specific date & time. You can't vary the order in which you do things.

Then, consider Broadway itself. There are approximately 40 Broadway theaters operating today. Let's say only half of them are "lit" (have a show running) on any particular day. And let's not even count the off-Broadway or off-off-Broadway theaters that may have shows running.

There are probably 3 or 4 shows that sell out routinely, for which you must buy tickets in advance. If you're not dead-set on seeing one of those, you don't have to plan 2 months in advance. That gives you the option of seeing 16 or so other shows. If you haven't been to Broadway in a long time, odds are that there's at least one or two that you haven't seen and wouldn't mind seeing.

Same here. At MK alone, there are ... what? ... 35-40 rides and attractions. Let's say 10 of them are down on any given day, leaving you with maybe 30-ish available to you. That doesn't count shows, character greetings, atmosphere entertainment or things like Sorcerers of the MK. There are probably 4-5 attractions that are truly "A-list". If you're not dead-set on seeing one of those, you don't have to plan anything in advance. That gives you the option of seeing 20-ish or so other rides & attractions. If you haven't been to WDW in a long time, odds are that there's at least a half-dozen you haven't seen in a while and wouldn't mind seeing. If you could care less whether you're on Hall of Presidents and COP vs. Thunder Mountain and Haunted Mansion, you don't have to worry at all.

I've researched Broadway shows and decide to go down one weekend. I get into NY early and go stand in line at TKTS to get half-priced tickets. (No, this is not the same as standing in line for Space Mountain. It would be like standing in line to get a half-price MYW ticket, which many people would do.) I see what's available, decide what I want and buy my ticket. Or if I don't like what's available, I pick a show, walk up to the box office and pay full price for the show I want to see, assuming availability. Now, since I have several choices, I'm not disappointed if my first-choice is sold out.

Say I decide to go to MK one Saturday, and I have planned nothing. I walk into MK and go to Space Mountain. Line is too long, so I go to Haunted Mansion. Line is still too long. I go to Small World. Faster moving line, shorter wait. Terrific. Since I have many choices, I'm not disappointed if my first-choice ride is too long of a wait. Now, if the only things I want to see at any given park are the headliners -- the only things -- then, I would argue, I'd have to plan for that no matter what kind of FP program is available. If the only attractions I'm interested in at MK are the mountains, HM, and ETWB and I go in without any advance planning, then I'm likely to have to wait for them because even under current FP rules, I can only have a certain number of FPs at any time, PLUS, I have to work with whatever FP return time I get. I can't alter that. But if I'm just there to ride or see whatever is open at the time, then I'm golden. Lots to choose from .... no planning needed.

Back to Broadway. If you HAVE to see Book of Mormon or Pippin, you're going to reserve those tickets a few months out, and not take a chance at showing up night-of and hoping it's not sold out or unavailable. But if you've got a few "plan b" choices in your pocket as well, then you can do less planning because you've got maybe a dozen plays that you'd be perfectly happy with. Lots to choose from .... no planning needed.

However, I would be very disappointed if all 7 of my choices were sold out. That's unlikely. So I don't even have to plan until that morning (like day-of FP).

But it is likely to happen with the headliners at the 4 major parks, if I don't plan. And therein lies the biggest difference.

Deciding to go to Broadway is akin to the major decision of deciding to go to WDW. The rest is micromanaging.

I agree with you if you don't care which play, what night or where you sit at your Broadway show. But ... if you want Matilda, Orchestra Center, on the Friday night of a holiday weekend, then -- IMO -- booking Broadway is no more or less micromanaging than planning to ride Splash Mountain on a Thursday evening at MK over Labor Day.

You can argue that the thought of reserving a two-minute ride just doesn't mesh with your thought of reserving an entire two or three hour show, and I get that. But the process is no more or less micromanaging. For either one, you have to make a decision well in advance and hope that the day you get there, you still feel like doing the thing you reserved.

 

[WDSearcher]

Honestly, I think you're intentionally missing the point. If you really can't grasp the difference between planning a general vacation (i.e - where are we going, where are we staying) and deciding "do I want to ride POTC at 1135 on Tuesday, 2 months from now?" then I really can't help you. Most people can easily understand the very big difference in those two things.

BTW, I don't do ADRs either, in case you were going to bring that up next round.

No harm, no foul. I was just thinking that you're stubbornly missing my point as well, so I guess we're even.

Honestly, I think you're just hung up on the whole "a Broadway show isn't the same as a theme park ride" thing. Although, from a base expenditure point, the cost is probably the same. But as two commodities that are sought after by vacationers and often cited as reasons why people go to a certain place at a certain time ("On my first night in NYC I have to see Lion King" vs. "For my first ride at MK, I have to ride Space Mountain"), I believe they can be used as comparable examples.