All resort non-smoking

[2Princes2Princesses]

IMHO, A sweeping statement like "nonsmokers win, smokers lose" is going to get you a bunch of po'ed smokers smoking in their rooms. And I will tell you why I think that.....

Smokers are addicted. They know the habit is killing them, and if they say they don't, they have been living in a cave for the last 20 years.

Here are the facts on it:
Nicotine causes chemical or biological changes in the brain. This effect is called psychoactive and although it is less dramatic than heroin or cocaine, the strength of the addiction is just as powerful. It is a 'reinforcing' drug, which means that users desire the drug regardless of the damaging effects. For example, in research conducted in 1994, only 50% of smokers who suffered a heart attack managed to quit smoking even though their doctors advised them to. Coincidentally, 50% of all regular smokers die as a result of smoking.4
Nicotine addiction is a physical dependency. Withdrawal symptoms are severe and most smokers cannot quit on their first attempt because of these symptoms.
The human body builds a tolerance to nicotine and the effect of the drug is reduced over time. As a result, regular smokers can inhale greater amounts of smoke and therefore greater amounts of toxins, without showing immediate effects (ie coughing, nausea).
Nicotine is extremely poisonous if consumed in large amounts and most people feel sick and dizzy the first time they smoke. These negative affects are quickly overcome. Over time the body builds a tolerance to nicotine, resulting in an increase in the amount of cigarettes smoked.

And this fact has the most relevancy here:
A highly addicted smoker smokes more than 25 cigarettes a day, ranks the first cigarette in the day as the most important, and will smoke within 30 minutes of waking up.

Now, reading how powerful the addiction can be, factoring in the need for a cigarette almost immediately upon waking, can anyone else see why I think there will be people smoking in the rooms??

Say for your morning coffee, which most of us also are addicted to, would you want to get up, immediately put on clothes, and go stand outside for 10 minutes in an area away from your building in order to get that cup of coffee?

I don't think people should smoke in their nonsmoking rooms. With the balconies, I think it depends...at the ones where you are on top of each other?? No. I don't think those low walls at BWV are sufficient to keep the people next door from having to breathe smoke.

My wise DH hit the nail on the head. It is Disney's decision. We, even as smokers, think it is an excellent decision. But we also think smoking is gross, about to start our 75th attempt to quit. And as he said, alot of smokers are going to feel that Disney is basically saying to smokers, "you are gross and nasty, go to that isolated spot. We don't care about you as much as we care about nonsmokers."

Is that true? No....Disney wants everyone's $$ equally!!! But people who are made to feel that way are going to be resentful, bitter, and possibly out to break the rules. Posts saying things like "thank goodness Disney did this, because smokers don't care about other people, and they probably blow smoke in their asthmatic kids faces and kick puppies!" are NOT going to encourage smokers to follow the new policy.

It is going to make them say "UP yours" and smoke where ever they want, and probably pay the fee with a big fat smile on their face.

Dh and I will follow the policy because I am that kind of person, I tend to put everyone else first regardless of how it makes me feel. DH will go along with me to avoid hearing me whine at him. But how many people are like that?

So....let's see....this is my approach.
To all my fellow smokers, this policy will be inconvenient. I don't smoke as much at WDW, so it is not a problem for me, but those of you who liked to enjoy that last smoke of the evening or that first early morning smoke with a nice hot cup o' joe on your balcony, I feel for you. I always have to drag my butt out (no pun intended) since my son has reactive airway disease, and I never smoke anywhere near him, not even on the balcony.

But, they are Disney's hotels, and they can do what they want with them. I hope the designated areas are nice. The ones in the parks are.....I love the one by the lake in MGM. I wonder where the new ones will be at the DVC resorts. Any ideas???

 

[Finny]

**And lounge chair HOARDERS!!**

Don't forget Heelys wearers...

 

[MiaSRN62]

Are you saying that smokers don't want their rooms to smell like smoke? If this is why smokers smoke on their balconies, (jim)

Jim, just as an example, my dh is the only one that smokes in our family. He smokes on the balcony of our offsite timeshare (no designation for either smoking or non), to keep it away from the inside of the villa and away from us. So it's not that he, the smoker, would care personally if the villa smelled like smoke, but rather it's out of respect for us non-smokers.

Jarestel says : If you haven't smoked in the room, there will be no charge. The identification of leftover smoking residue is fairly easy to detect. If one didn't smoke, there will be nothing to detect.

This is where I feel it becomes tricky. It's not always easy to detect. I've been with family who can't always smell what I can. I can pick up on pretty faint, minute smells of smoke. This is my 3rd post to this thread. Honestly, you are at the mercy of the housekeeper. Believe me, if there is even one tiny hint of smoke smell in our villa, I am calling someone in to inspect the room and document that it did not come from us. Because honestly, a housekeeper who smokes may not notice the smoke smell especially if it's faint. Then we may come in and stay for a few days, and the housekeeper that cleans after us, reports us for smoking because she can detect it. Then we get billed. I would definitely be having the rooms inspected at even a hint of smoke and documented each and every stay just to be sure. There is just too much of a margin for error for me.

F4disneyfan says : I am sure this will attract far more NON SMOKERS than it will drive away the smokers.

I respectfully disagree. I don't think designated smoking rooms have ever kept a measurable amount of non-smokers away. It hasn't us. Disney has always attracted thousands despite their policy over the years.
Rather, I think it will turn more smokers away. It's more of a direct target on them. Just my thoughts. (and I'm a non-smoker for the record).

dannyh23 says :Some companies reward staff when pointing out things that save the company money, safety issues, etc. Now that a "cleaning fee" has been established, perhaps some of that can go towards paying for CM's that do enforce the laws.

This in itself makes me a little leary. As another poster stated, dangling a worm like this in front of minimum wage workers is just too tempting. I could see abuse of this policy. Again, too much room for error or mistaken accusations. If this does become a policy I will DEFINITELY be having each and every disney/DVC room inspected at time of check-in and documentation noted on our reservation regardless of whether or not I smell smoke.

childsplay says :I guess I just don't see enforcement as that big of a problem.

I sure do....based on my above comments. I could see neighbors reporting the wrong neighbors for violation. It's very easy to get confused about exactly where smoke is coming from and I'd bet people who are really ticked at smelling smoke may just start pointing fingers randomly where they "think" it's coming from. I can see housekeepers making mistakes. Those CM's who are being offered incentives to spot violators could also be making erroneous accusations. Just too much room for problems. I can see guests getting very upset when a neighbor reports them unfairly or they get a bill unjustly. Yikes.....could be a mess.

 

[MiaSRN62]

2Princeses2Princesses asks :I wonder where the new ones will be at the DVC resorts. Any ideas???

I'm guessing at OKW/SSR/VWL around the parking lot areas ? All these resorts have a fairly easy access to them.
I've never stayed at BCV/AKV, but with BWV I'm hard-pressed to think of a place because that resort is on the boardwalk for the most part. All those shops/restaurants....just can't see smoking designated areas there ?

 

[bonzarella]

But, they are Disney's hotels, and they can do what they want with them. I hope the designated areas are nice. The ones in the parks are.....I love the one by the lake in MGM. I wonder where the new ones will be at the DVC resorts. Any ideas???

I was told by MS earlier today to expect them to be by the bus stops. I just got off the phone with OKW front desk, they said no area has be designated as of yet .

 

[MrsNick]

Say for your morning coffee, which most of us also are addicted to, would you want to get up, immediately put on clothes, and go stand outside for 10 minutes in an area away from your building in order to get that cup of coffee?

Although I prefer to have my coffee in my room (or at home), I have in fact, immediately gotten up, showered and dressed, gotten in my car for an hour long commute, then walked a half a mile in the cold and stood in a line outside waiting for my cuppa joe (it's good joe from an excellent coffee cart, lol).

Most mornings, I have my coffee in the car on the way to work.

Of course, my preference, is to drink my coffee in my home in my PJ's.

That said, if I smoked, I absolutely would not like the inconvenience of going to a designated smoking section. My DH does not smoke cigarettes but does like the occasional stogie on vacation late at night. He will follow whatever rules are in place regarding smoking, or he won't smoke. Simple as that. It is what it is, and neither my DH nor I feel that rules only apply to others. I'm sure most people (both smokers and non-smokers) are the same. There will always be a minority of people out there who think rules don't apply to them. But I bet a lot of 'em would be first in line to complain if someone else broke rules that negatively affected them.

 

[2Princes2Princesses]

I'm guessing at OKW/SSR/VWL around the parking lot areas ? All these resorts have a fairly easy access to them.
I've never stayed at BCV/AKV, but with BWV I'm hard-pressed to think of a place because that resort is on the boardwalk for the most part. All those shops/restaurants....just can't see smoking designated areas there ?

I know there are areas ON the BW (which always puzzled me as to why they had the ashtrays set up on the wooden boardwalk), I think they were closer to the ends, like near ESPN and then Jellyrolls. I wonder if they will just keep those, and maybe add 1 or 2 on the back/side of the building near the path to MGM?

We were trying to figure out SSR. Yes, the parking lots are accessible, but I don't know about sending people into the lot, KWIM?? Next they'll be getting sued because someone went out there to smoke and was backed over or something.

We thought maybe on the side with the DTD view, off the path??

But like Chuck said, if they move them too far...people won't use them, so they will have to have something close to each building, yet away from the bus stops.

 

[jarestel]

It's highly unlikely that anyone will be accused of or assesed any type of financial penalty for a "hint" of smoke or an erroneous report from a neighbor.

There is absolutely nothing remarkable about my abilities and I can certainly tell when a room has been actively smoked in as opposed to simply carried in on someone's clothes from outside. I know people who smoke and come into my home. If they don't smoke while they are here, they don't leave any noticeable "evidence" behind. If someone smokes in my home on Friday while I'm away and I return on Monday, I can tell. And as I say, I'm not especially trained to detect tobacco smoke. It really is not difficult for an ordinary person who does not smoke to detect this.

So be at ease... Disney will have no problems determining this either.

 

[MrsNick]

Next they'll be getting sued because someone went out there to smoke and was backed over or something. .

Oh yikes!

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I hope I don't burn my toast..

MG

 

[keys2kingdom]

It can make one feel that they own nothing but the right to stay in a hotel room for a few weeks each year.

Uh hello, that's essentially what DVC is! It's a Right To Use timeshare. We don't actually OWN anything, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. DVC is not my "home away from home", it's a Disney property(ies) that I have paid to stay at for the next 36 years. I don't think of it as my second home and therefore my "rights" don't apply. It's Disney's property and all rights are their's. If you don't own something you can't call the shots, plain and simple.

 

[dannyh23]

But we also think smoking is gross, about to start our 75th attempt to quit. And as he said, alot of smokers are going to feel that Disney is basically saying to smokers, "you are gross and nasty, go to that isolated spot. We don't care about you as much as we care about nonsmokers." ...Is that true? No....Disney wants everyone's $$ equally!!!

... But, they are Disney's hotels, and they can do what they want with them.

A great summary... Good luck on your attempt to quit!

 

[cpbjgc]

30 pages in 24 hours! Now this is a hot thread .

I wanted to cast this debate in new light, as I think many of the analogies to smoking being a “right” or legal sort of miss the point. I used to smoke cigarettes (gave them up 10 years ago) and still smoke an occasional cigar. So I know about cravings etc. I agree, smoking can be satisfying for the smoker. Smoking as an activity is legal, but is a regulated activity (age limits on buying tobacco, can’t smoke in restaurants, etc.). To my thinking, smoking is not that different from engaging in a bodily function which we shall call, for the sake of this discussion, “No. 1”.

No. 1 shares many similarities with smoking:

• Like smoking, No. 1 is legal;
• Like smoking, the person engaging in the activity has greater satisfaction engaging in the activity than those around the person who may have to observe the activity;
• Like smoking, No. 1 can leave you with a feeling of satisfaction, especially if you have to wait until later to engage in the activity;
• Like smoking, I always want to do it as soon as I get up in the morning, and likely several times over the course of the day.
• Like smoking, No. 1 can result in yellow stains, smelly rugs/couches and discolored surfaces in general, if you engage in the activity wherever you might be.
• Like smoking, doing No. 1 while on the balcony or patio of my room would lessen the enjoyment of other guests in the vicinity at the time (especially those below).
• As when I
  was smoking, when I need to go No. 1, I really need to do it now.

This is why I don’t have a problem with the policy. Sure, No. 1 is legal, and arguably an activity which is a more fundamental right than smoking. However, I only go No. 1 in designated areas. I don’t protest about this. I know others around me don’t want to see me engaging in No. 1. I know there are health risks to others if I don’t use designated areas. I know what I need to do and where I need to go to do it. And frankly, I could always hold off lighting a cigarette longer than going No. 1.

So I say good on DVD for the policy. They are not removing any right, they are simply asking guests to engage in a legal activity in a designated area, for the comfort of all guests.

 

[Chuck S]

I was told by MS earlier today to expect them to be by the bus stops. I just got off the phone with OKW front desk, they said no area has been designated as of yet .

Extremely poor planning and implementation on Disney's part. You have to wonder if this was a sudden decision by a high up WDW VP. I mean, they have less than a month to plan, equip and build designated smoking areas, and they haven't even decided on locations.

Remember, not only do these locations have to be relatively convenient to guest rooms, they have to be ADA compliant as far as turning radius for wheelchairs, and ramps if needed.

 

[legalsea]

KeystoKingdom: if you are going to quote somebody, please quote everything and not just one sentence. That one sentence of mine that you quoted is out of context and misleading. I well understand what a timeshare is.

To those who are interested in reading my entire thought on this subject, and why I believe many owner's of DVC shares, smokers or otherwise, are upset, my post is on page 25.

 

[jarestel]

Extremely poor planning and implementation on Disney's part. You have to wonder if this was a sudden decision by a high up WDW VP. I mean, they have less than a month to plan, equip and build designated smoking areas, and they haven't even decided on locations.

Chuck, in all likelihood this decision came from "corporate" in California and left the management at WDW little choice in the matter.

 

[jodifla]

Extremely poor planning and implementation on Disney's part. You have to wonder if this was a sudden decision by a high up WDW VP. I mean, they have less than a month to plan, equip and build designated smoking areas, and they haven't even decided on locations.

Remember, not only do these locations have to be relatively convenient to guest rooms, they have to be ADA compliant as far as turning radius for wheelchairs, and ramps if needed.

Absolutely! It's ridiculous that WDW didn't give this more thought!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jodifla]

Uh hello, that's essentially what DVC is! It's a Right To Use timeshare. We don't actually OWN anything, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. DVC is not my "home away from home", it's a Disney property(ies) that I have paid to stay at for the next 36 years. I don't think of it as my second home and therefore my "rights" don't apply. It's Disney's property and all rights are their's. If you don't own something you can't call the shots, plain and simple.

Then DVC should stop calling it your home away from home, and advertising that you "own" a piece of the magic.

They are the ones that use the terminology, and SELL it to people.

 

[tjkraz]

Just a few random thoughts:

* Is anyone *really* as shocked about this as they appear to be? I know the number of people being really open in their opposition here is a small number, so I'm trying to keep things in perspective. But come on--the writing has been on the wall for YEARS now. Entire states have all but banned smoking. WDW relegated smokers to "designated areas" almost a decade ago. Other hotel chains have gone completely smoke free, including Disneyland.

I guess it just surprises me to see so many people acting as if this came out of nowhere.

* I think most of the concerns about enforcement are much ado about nothing. If I walk into a room and it smells like smoke, I will immediately address it with the front desk and make sure it's documented. We don't smoke so if I can't smell anything upon arrival, there is zero chance that they could think we smoked in the room.

* If housekeeping CMs are given incentives for reporting room issues, yes it would be an invitation to abuse. But I think it was Dean who said that other chains use systems that require verification from 2-3 people including a manager. That's a logical safeguard and would require collusion among several CMs to file a false report. Does anyone really think that so many people would put their jobs on the line just to split $25-50? In those cases the denials are going to be so forceful that it won't take long before someone catches on to the scam.

Will it happen? Yeah, probably, because some people are just that dumb. Will fradulent smoking reports be a regular occurrence? No way.

* While the timing of this does surprise me, they shouldn't have any problem deciding where and how to create smoking areas at the resorts. A company with the resources of TWDC can certainly have this addressed to a reasonable degree within 30 days. Yes there will be some initial confusion among both cast and guests, but that would be true even if they had 6 months to prepare.

 

[Snookies]

30 pages in 24 hours! Now this is a hot thread .

I wanted to cast this debate in new light, as I think many of the analogies to smoking being a “right” or legal sort of miss the point. I used to smoke cigarettes (gave them up 10 years ago) and still smoke an occasional cigar. So I know about cravings etc. I agree, smoking can be satisfying for the smoker. Smoking as an activity is legal, but is a regulated activity (age limits on buying tobacco, can’t smoke in restaurants, etc.). To my thinking, smoking is not that different from engaging in a bodily function which we shall call, for the sake of this discussion, “No. 1”.

No. 1 shares many similarities with smoking:

• Like smoking, No. 1 is legal;
• Like smoking, the person engaging in the activity has greater satisfaction engaging in the activity than those around the person who may have to observe the activity;
• Like smoking, No. 1 can leave you with a feeling of satisfaction, especially if you have to wait until later to engage in the activity;
• Like smoking, I always want to do it as soon as I get up in the morning, and likely several times over the course of the day.
• Like smoking, No. 1 can result in yellow stains, smelly rugs/couches and discolored surfaces in general, if you engage in the activity wherever you might be.
• Like smoking, doing No. 1 while on the balcony or patio of my room would lessen the enjoyment of other guests in the vicinity at the time (especially those below).
• As when I
  was smoking, when I need to go No. 1, I really need to do it now.

This is why I don’t have a problem with the policy. Sure, No. 1 is legal, and arguably an activity which is a more fundamental right than smoking. However, I only go No. 1 in designated areas. I don’t protest about this. I know others around me don’t want to see me engaging in No. 1. I know there are health risks to others if I don’t use designated areas. I know what I need to do and where I need to go to do it. And frankly, I could always hold off lighting a cigarette longer than going No. 1.

So I say good on DVD for the policy. They are not removing any right, they are simply asking guests to engage in a legal activity in a designated area, for the comfort of all guests.

Amusing analogy, but my guess is this decision has less to do with concern about the comfort of all guests and more to do with my suspicion that management is following the lead of other hotel and timeshare operators, as well as my guess that WDW is at a point where the benefit of imposing smoking constraints is at least equal to the cost of decreased revenue from international travelers where smoking used to be much more prevalent.

Extremely poor planning and implementation on Disney's part. You have to wonder if this was a sudden decision by a high up WDW VP. I mean, they have less than a month to plan, equip and build designated smoking areas, and they haven't even decided on locations.

Remember, not only to these locations have to be relatively convenient to guest rooms, they have to be ADA compliant as far as turning radius for wheelchairs, and ramps if needed.

I agree Chuck. The timeline suggests "someone higher up suddenly made a decision." I have only read bits and pieces of the thread because the issue isn't that important to me (and this from (unfortunately) a smoker), so someone may have covered this earlier: whatever they do in terms of designated smoking areas must be ADA compliant. And the idea that these should be near the bus stops would be a mistake imo because, if so, the next group of threads on this topic may likely involve the topic of inconsiderate smokers smoking in the designated smoking area near the bus stop even after they were asked to stop.